This is my translation, followed by the original Thai, of a suggested extraordinary Senate meeting to discuss lese majeste law in Thailand.
Senate [of the Kingdom of Thailand]
Uthongnai Road
Bangkok Metropolitan Area 10300
14 January 2009
Translated by Frank G Anderson
(Note: As always, if a fellow bilingual colleague has comments or corrections, please pass them on. Also see translator’s note at end of English.)
Subject: Introducing a motion that the Senate establish an extraordinary committee to study and follow enforcement of laws and standards relating to protection of the monarchy.
Respectfully submitted to: the President of the Senate
Whereas the constitutions of the Kingdom of Thailand, from the first in 1932 to the present one [dated] 2007, provided protection and esteemed respect to the king, who is in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated, and especially as there are criminal laws that exist and no less than seven other Acts that prohibit and forbid anyone from encroaching or violating the king…when considering the number these are sufficient as tools to use to protect the monarchy to be stable and safe. But in going back over the last two-three years, individuals and groups have continuously spread information and false news resembling insult and encroachment on the monarchy through printed media, community radio, and especially through websites both in Thailand and abroad. And [this has] been at increased ferocity since October 2008, wherein there has been little enforcement and significant delay of enforcement of the law to proceed with cases against those committing [such] offenses. This has caused main points of the law [as intended] to become lost.
The Senate, in the status of a legislative institution, thus ought to study and pursue enforcement of laws relating to protection of the monarchy so as to know the nature of problems and obstacles that arise in providing enforcement, to have the laws as intended by Parliament as an institution with the duty to work in the area of legislation or passage of laws, and in order to update or amend laws to ensure they are complete and most appropriate in the future, including study and seeking standards of other societies – as well as legal standards.
As from the said reasons above, we members of the Senate who have signed below herewith, respectfully suggest a declaration according to the rules of the Senate meeting dated 2008, Item 38, in order to have a Senate meeting and resolution to establish an extraordinary committee to study [1] a resolution for enforcement of the law and [2] standards relating to protection of the monarchy – whereby there shall be a limitation of the working time of the committee to 180 days.
As to reasons and other details, they will be addressed at a subsequent Senate meeting.
With the utmost respect,
Person introducing resolution,
Mr. Khamnoon Sitthisamarn
Note: Mr. Khamnoon is a leader of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), and has previously expressed pleasure at Abhisit Vejajjiva becoming Thai prime minister. He has appeared, as a PAD leader, onstage in support of PAD policies for some time.
I know it’s being subjective in and of itself, but asking what’s in it for me, and thus implying that others only express what’s in it for them seems simplistic at best, perhaps overly academic.
There are certain directions Thailand has taken since 1932, and it seems we are back at the beginning. I am a bit uncertain about what objective clarity would be on the Thai identity. Any accurate clarity would have to be subjective.
The US has no invested commerical interests or enterprises that would benetfit from military involvement. Therefore politicians will do little to render anything more than verbal commentary about their dislike of the treatment of the Karen People and other ethnic groups beiing targeted by the SPDC.
That article is an old one that keep resurfacing.
Reguardless of who knew whomever was there the US will not be getting invovled in the immediate future., regretably.
There is no tacit American approval for military assistance to the KNLA. Irregardless of what some may say, or believe, it isn’t true. You can take that to the bank.
Out of self-interest, the single issue for me is, where does Thailand go from here? What is it for you?
If someone was to gain some sort of objective clarity on Thai identity I am sure it would be a result of a careers work. Sure it’s easy for me to say “oh, it’s a great big tangled fishing line” between the monarchy’s reel and ending at the hook of the rural farmer, and leave it there because I don’t know enough. I don’t think many other people are clear beyond their self-interested opinions on the issues. Issues plural. The issues are not one dimensional, ‘Lese Majeste is wrong’ etc, but are multi-faceted and I think are at the crux of where Thai identity will continue to evolve from.
So for me, it is clear Lese Majeste is draconian. It is clear that some Thai people feel their ‘freedom’ is being obstructed and suppressed, and it is clear that for democracy to be more than simply a label for a voting process, Lese Majeste, the visible mole from the cancer lurking beneath, must be removed for further ‘treatment.’ However, I am sure there are Thais who are completely opposite and feel that the Lese Majeste protects what perhaps ‘provides’ freedom – the “benevolent” elites.
What I wrote as a response to Chris at the beginning, the ‘Chulalongkorn as Thailand’s Harvard’, ‘bright creative martyrs’ rubbish, was just to be antagonistic towards people who feel they do have an objective grasp on the situation. If you do have a grasp on it, I am envious! Posts like the ones from Craig Reynolds, ‘Ralph Kramden’ and ‘kjf’ don’t seem to be playing into the waiting hands of the cancerous debate which seemingly ends in a Thai room 101.
A useful addendum to this thoughtful post is Martin Smith’s in-depth speech “The Muslim ‘Rohingya’ of Burma,” which he delivered in 1995 at the Burma Centre Netherlands. It begins,
while Burma has many complex ethnic problems, the plight of the Muslims of Arakan is by far the most tense and difficult of all the ethnic problems I have encountered in over a decade of writing on the political and ethnic situation in Burma.
I’m speaking in terms of alleging tacit US government approval of military assistance to the KNLA and implying that something big is coming to turn the tide.
Am I reading it incorrectly or is that ridiculous?
Of course I believe in not giving up, but you’ve got to deal with reality if your going to try and come up with effective ways to continue to resist in what appears (to me) to be a situation that’s getting bleaker.
I hope folks post more as I’m making a real effort to get up to speed in a short time. I like to hear what people have to say.
i am thai and i support lese-majesty law to be abolish , soon as possible, we (thai people) are fear of this law , i can say it now becoz i am out of the country, thai people are very strange in so many ways, stupid and also stubborned , the king is good person and everybody revered him at least 65 mill that love and care about him, why has this law to protect him,you guys don’t waste your time try to point out or help thai people to see the different between true democracy and the dictatorship,
Whilst not condoning in any way the ill treatment they received from the military regime and the Bangladeshi state’s poor record regarding the refugees, has any one outside bothered to ask the Rakhines who actually share their state with them, I wonder, never mind the Burmans?
Colum Graham’s “Nothing is clear” is a fine basic introduction to logic, but stops at the introduction and doesn’t get to the issues – which is why, perhaps, “nothing is clear” – to him.
I would have to question some of the Thais writting on here if they have actually bothered to read everybodies comments before making knee jerk reactions.
Come on guys it’s infrantile.Please be very mature with this “Your country is wrong” Get with the rest of the world on this or fall more behind the way side
Abject Failure said:
“…In previous messages to Amnesty International in the UK they have been presented with clear evidence that Amnesty International in Thailand had links to the PAD ….”
Amnesty Thailand’s coziness with the PAD was very much the work of its former director for the country office, a veteran activist. After he openly stepped over the line with an unauthorized public statement, Amnesty’s London HQ pressured him for months to resign, and finally had to sack him. I’m not sure there was any press coverage of the problem – perhaps on Prachathai? – but this press release from Amnesty Intl Thailand touched on the affair:
The Board of Amnesty International Thailand has decided to withdraw unconditionally the Statement 2/2551 [11/12/2008]
The Board of Amnesty International Thailand has decided to withdraw unconditionally the Statement 2/2551 issued (in Thai only) on 29 Aug 2008 on р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕лр╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╣Гр╕вр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╕▒р╕Фр╣Бр╕вр╣Йр╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕З р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╕Др╕▓р╕бр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Ар╕кр╕гр╕╡р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щ (Concerns about the political conflict and threats to the rights and freedoms of the people). The dissemination of this statement was in contravention of the Amnesty International ‘Work on Own Country’ rule and failed to maintain Amnesty International standards of impartiality.
For an Amnesty International statement on the situation in Thailand, ‘State of Emergency should not infringe on human rights’ please see http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/thailand-state-emergency-should-not-infringe-human-rights-20080902.
The issue is not only that yes, they are deprived of their rights and need help, but that the help they get is maligned, distorted, unwelcome and interferes with the real problem – not lack of rights, but overabundance of people in power willing to make sure those rights do not become an obstacle to their power base.
Remarkable. It’s difficult to believe it’s not some sort of spoof.
That said, this is the official Myanmar position on the Rohingyas. I understand that when Mahathir Mohamad visited Rangoon in 2002 as part of his ‘constructive engagement’ with the regime, he asked the junta to take back some of the Rohingyas expelled to Bangladesh and those elsewhere in the region (people may recall Malaysia took a very firm stand indeed in the early 1990s on the issue). He was told, very bluntly, that “the Rohingyas are not our people, we don’t want them back”. Mahathir was apparently aghast and this contributed to his profound disillusionment with constructive engagement and his suggestion in 2003 that Myanmar should be expelled from ASEAN.
Abject Failure is correct. AI claim to have had a huge number of lese majeste emails, but have done nothing public.
All AI representatives say on lese majeste is that “Amnesty has decided to take up this matter privately with the Thai authorities at very high levels (rather than, at this point at least, to issue something publicly…). We appreciate that lese majeste is a concern to many people both within and outside of Thailand—-and that Amnesty’s decision might also be disappointing—-but we reached this decision after considerable strategizing as to how we might most effectively influence the situation.”
AI’s so-called strategy is likely to be due to the nature of its membership in Thailand. In a recent Nation article (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/28/politics/politics_30094336.php), there is a hint of what has happened to AI in Thailand: “At one point last year, the Thai chapter of Amnesty International even issued a statement which could be read supporting the PAD – only to see their statement retracted after people in Amnesty’s main office in London intervened.”
So it is not hard to guess how their membership views lese majeste.
Dear Mr. Sirivat
Thank’s for motovation speach in Prudential Convention Jakarta. Februari 12th, 2009.
I will learn from you and take the spirit to brake trought the most dificult in life it’s ego, and memories of the past.
The important is what about the future & what must We do to reach our wiah & dreams
Hope to hear for your next speach in Indonesia.
Regards & GBU
Bernardus
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Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
This is my translation, followed by the original Thai, of a suggested extraordinary Senate meeting to discuss lese majeste law in Thailand.
Senate [of the Kingdom of Thailand]
Uthongnai Road
Bangkok Metropolitan Area 10300
14 January 2009
Translated by Frank G Anderson
(Note: As always, if a fellow bilingual colleague has comments or corrections, please pass them on. Also see translator’s note at end of English.)
Subject: Introducing a motion that the Senate establish an extraordinary committee to study and follow enforcement of laws and standards relating to protection of the monarchy.
Respectfully submitted to: the President of the Senate
Whereas the constitutions of the Kingdom of Thailand, from the first in 1932 to the present one [dated] 2007, provided protection and esteemed respect to the king, who is in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated, and especially as there are criminal laws that exist and no less than seven other Acts that prohibit and forbid anyone from encroaching or violating the king…when considering the number these are sufficient as tools to use to protect the monarchy to be stable and safe. But in going back over the last two-three years, individuals and groups have continuously spread information and false news resembling insult and encroachment on the monarchy through printed media, community radio, and especially through websites both in Thailand and abroad. And [this has] been at increased ferocity since October 2008, wherein there has been little enforcement and significant delay of enforcement of the law to proceed with cases against those committing [such] offenses. This has caused main points of the law [as intended] to become lost.
The Senate, in the status of a legislative institution, thus ought to study and pursue enforcement of laws relating to protection of the monarchy so as to know the nature of problems and obstacles that arise in providing enforcement, to have the laws as intended by Parliament as an institution with the duty to work in the area of legislation or passage of laws, and in order to update or amend laws to ensure they are complete and most appropriate in the future, including study and seeking standards of other societies – as well as legal standards.
As from the said reasons above, we members of the Senate who have signed below herewith, respectfully suggest a declaration according to the rules of the Senate meeting dated 2008, Item 38, in order to have a Senate meeting and resolution to establish an extraordinary committee to study [1] a resolution for enforcement of the law and [2] standards relating to protection of the monarchy – whereby there shall be a limitation of the working time of the committee to 180 days.
As to reasons and other details, they will be addressed at a subsequent Senate meeting.
With the utmost respect,
Person introducing resolution,
Mr. Khamnoon Sitthisamarn
Note: Mr. Khamnoon is a leader of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), and has previously expressed pleasure at Abhisit Vejajjiva becoming Thai prime minister. He has appeared, as a PAD leader, onstage in support of PAD policies for some time.
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р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕┤р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╣Мр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М
р╕Бр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Щ р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Шр╕▓р╕Щр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓
р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕Щр╕╣р╕Нр╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕нр╕▓р╕Ур╕▓р╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ъ р╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Бр╕гр╕Б р╕Юр╕╕р╕Чр╕Шр╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕▓р╕К р╣Тр╣Фр╣Чр╣Х р╕Ир╕Щр╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Ыр╕▒р╕Ир╕Ир╕╕р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ р╕Юр╕╕р╕Чр╕Шр╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕▓р╕К р╣Тр╣Хр╣Хр╣Р р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Др╕╕р╣Йр╕бр╕Др╕гр╕нр╕Зр╕вр╕Бр╕вр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕Чр╕┤р╕Фр╕Чр╕╣р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣Мр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Чр╕гр╕Зр╕Фр╕│р╕гр╕Зр╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╣Гр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╕░р╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щ р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Др╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕кр╕▒р╕Бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕░ р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕Фр╕Ир╕░р╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕бр╕┤р╕Фр╕бр╕┤р╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕бр╕╡р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕зр╕ер╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕нр╕▓р╕Нр╕▓р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Нр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Щр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╣Ч р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ъ р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ыр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕┤р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╣Мр╕бр╕┤р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕Фр╕Ир╕▓р╕Ър╕Ир╣Йр╕зр╕Зр╕ер╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕бр╕┤р╕Фр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М р╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕Ир╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╕▓р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕Ир╕│р╕Щр╕зр╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕зр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕бр╕╡р╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕Юр╕нр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Др╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╣Гр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕│р╕Зр╕▓р╕Щ р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╣Мр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣Мр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕Др╕Зр╕Ыр╕ер╕нр╕Фр╕ар╕▒р╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕Бр╕Пр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Гр╕Щр╕гр╕нр╕Ъ р╣Т-р╣У р╕Ыр╕╡р╕бр╕▓р╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕бр╕╡р╕Ър╕╕р╕Др╕Др╕ер╕Ър╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Фр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Ьр╕вр╣Бр╕Юр╕гр╣Ир╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕╣р╕ер╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕кр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╣Гр╕Щр╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕Ур╕░р╕Ир╕▓р╕Ър╕Ир╣Йр╕зр╕Зр╕ер╣Ир╕зр╕З р╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕бр╕┤р╕Фр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╕╕р╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Кр╕Щ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╣Ар╕Йр╕Юр╕▓р╕░р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕вр╕┤р╣Ир╕З р╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╣Ар╕зр╣Зр╕Ър╣Др╕Лр╕Хр╣М р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕и р╕бр╕▓р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕Щр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕З р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Чр╕зр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕гр╕╕р╕Щр╣Бр╕гр╕Зр╕вр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╣Ар╕Фр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕Хр╕╕р╕ер╕▓р╕Др╕б р╣Тр╣Хр╣Хр╣С р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Хр╣Йр╕Щр╕бр╕▓ р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Фр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕┤р╕Щр╕Др╕Фр╕╡р╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕│р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Щр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Кр╣Йр╕▓ р╕бр╕▓р╕Б р╕Чр╕│р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Ар╕Ир╕Хр╕Щр╕▓р╕гр╕бр╕Ур╣Мр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕кр╕╡р╕вр╕лр╕▓р╕вр╣Др╕Ыр╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕▓р╕гр╕░р╕кр╕│р╕Др╕▒р╕Н
р╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓ р╣Гр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╕░р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╕Бр╕гр╕Эр╣Ир╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕┤р╕Хр╕┤р╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Нр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤ р╕Ир╕╢р╕Зр╕кр╕бр╕Др╕зр╕гр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤р╕Фр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕┤р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╣М р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╕кр╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Ыр╕▒р╕Нр╕лр╕▓р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕нр╕╕р╕Ыр╕кр╕гр╕гр╕Др╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Кр╣Й р╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Др╕Ыр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕Ир╕Хр╕Щр╕▓р╕гр╕бр╕Ур╣Мр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕кр╕ар╕▓р╣Гр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╕░р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╕Бр╕гр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Чр╕│р╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Фр╣Йр╕▓р╕Щ р╕Щр╕┤р╕Хр╕┤р╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Нр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕Щр╕╕р╕бр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕в р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╕│р╣Др╕Ыр╕кр╕╣р╣Ир╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ыр╕гр╕╕р╕Зр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Бр╕Бр╣Йр╣Др╕Вр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕кр╕бр╕Ър╕╣р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕░р╕кр╕бр╕бр╕▓р╕Б р╕вр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕нр╕Щр╕▓р╕Др╕Х р╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╣Бр╕кр╕зр╕Зр╕лр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕нр╕╖р╣Ир╕Щр╣Ж р╕Щр╕нр╕Бр╣Ар╕лр╕Щр╕╖р╕нр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕в
р╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╣Ар╕лр╕Хр╕╕р╕Ьр╕ер╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Хр╣Йр╕Щ р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Кр╕┤р╕Бр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Чр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕Ир╕╢р╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╕Нр╕▒р╕Хр╕Хр╕┤р╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓ р╕Ю.р╕и.р╣Тр╣Хр╣Хр╣С р╕Вр╣Йр╕н р╣Ур╣Ш р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓р╕бр╕╡р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Др╕Ур╕░р╕Бр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕зр╕┤р╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▒р╕Нр╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤р╕Фр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕в р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕┤р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╣Мр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕│р╕лр╕Щр╕Фр╕гр╕░р╕вр╕░р╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕Пр╕┤р╕Ър╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕ар╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╕┤р╕И р╣Ср╣Шр╣Р р╕зр╕▒р╕Щ
р╕кр╕│р╕лр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕лр╕Хр╕╕р╕Ьр╕ер╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕нр╕╡р╕вр╕Фр╣Ар╕Юр╕┤р╣Ир╕бр╣Ар╕Хр╕┤р╕бр╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Кр╕╡р╣Йр╣Бр╕Ир╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓р╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╣Др╕Ы
р╕Вр╕нр╣Бр╕кр╕Фр╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕Цр╕╖р╕нр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕вр╕┤р╣Ир╕З
р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╕Нр╕▒р╕Хр╕Хр╕┤
(р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Др╕│р╕Щр╕╣р╕У р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Щ)
р╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Кр╕┤р╕Бр╕зр╕╕р╕Тр╕┤р╕кр╕ар╕▓ р╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕ер╕В р╣Рр╣Ср╣Т
The medieval price
I believe he will receive a pardon from the king soon….
I am Thai and I also hate to see this law still being used in this country… we will never be a free country….
I love my king.. but I love my freedom just more…
Many Thai groups are about to protest in this use of law…and we shall Win… it’s inevitable…
Thai politics, US strategy
Perhaps this is relevant . . .
http://www.mizzima.com/news/regional/1686-forgotten-struggle-on-other-side-of-the-fence.html
Abhisit on lese majeste
Thats very interesting regarding Statement 2/2551 – anyone have a copy?
Giles leaves Thailand
I know it’s being subjective in and of itself, but asking what’s in it for me, and thus implying that others only express what’s in it for them seems simplistic at best, perhaps overly academic.
There are certain directions Thailand has taken since 1932, and it seems we are back at the beginning. I am a bit uncertain about what objective clarity would be on the Thai identity. Any accurate clarity would have to be subjective.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
The US has no invested commerical interests or enterprises that would benetfit from military involvement. Therefore politicians will do little to render anything more than verbal commentary about their dislike of the treatment of the Karen People and other ethnic groups beiing targeted by the SPDC.
That article is an old one that keep resurfacing.
Reguardless of who knew whomever was there the US will not be getting invovled in the immediate future., regretably.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
There is no tacit American approval for military assistance to the KNLA. Irregardless of what some may say, or believe, it isn’t true. You can take that to the bank.
Giles leaves Thailand
Frank,
Out of self-interest, the single issue for me is, where does Thailand go from here? What is it for you?
If someone was to gain some sort of objective clarity on Thai identity I am sure it would be a result of a careers work. Sure it’s easy for me to say “oh, it’s a great big tangled fishing line” between the monarchy’s reel and ending at the hook of the rural farmer, and leave it there because I don’t know enough. I don’t think many other people are clear beyond their self-interested opinions on the issues. Issues plural. The issues are not one dimensional, ‘Lese Majeste is wrong’ etc, but are multi-faceted and I think are at the crux of where Thai identity will continue to evolve from.
So for me, it is clear Lese Majeste is draconian. It is clear that some Thai people feel their ‘freedom’ is being obstructed and suppressed, and it is clear that for democracy to be more than simply a label for a voting process, Lese Majeste, the visible mole from the cancer lurking beneath, must be removed for further ‘treatment.’ However, I am sure there are Thais who are completely opposite and feel that the Lese Majeste protects what perhaps ‘provides’ freedom – the “benevolent” elites.
What I wrote as a response to Chris at the beginning, the ‘Chulalongkorn as Thailand’s Harvard’, ‘bright creative martyrs’ rubbish, was just to be antagonistic towards people who feel they do have an objective grasp on the situation. If you do have a grasp on it, I am envious! Posts like the ones from Craig Reynolds, ‘Ralph Kramden’ and ‘kjf’ don’t seem to be playing into the waiting hands of the cancerous debate which seemingly ends in a Thai room 101.
Rohingya
A useful addendum to this thoughtful post is Martin Smith’s in-depth speech “The Muslim ‘Rohingya’ of Burma,” which he delivered in 1995 at the Burma Centre Netherlands. It begins,
The speech is available here.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
What do folks think about this?
http://please-help-burma.blogspot.com/2008/06/karen-armed-rebellion-in-burma-takes.html
I’m speaking in terms of alleging tacit US government approval of military assistance to the KNLA and implying that something big is coming to turn the tide.
Am I reading it incorrectly or is that ridiculous?
Of course I believe in not giving up, but you’ve got to deal with reality if your going to try and come up with effective ways to continue to resist in what appears (to me) to be a situation that’s getting bleaker.
I hope folks post more as I’m making a real effort to get up to speed in a short time. I like to hear what people have to say.
Here’s my contact info as well:
[email protected]
I left out the “o” and put my name backwards so the Junta can’t trace me. Damn! I gave it away.
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
i am thai and i support lese-majesty law to be abolish , soon as possible, we (thai people) are fear of this law , i can say it now becoz i am out of the country, thai people are very strange in so many ways, stupid and also stubborned , the king is good person and everybody revered him at least 65 mill that love and care about him, why has this law to protect him,you guys don’t waste your time try to point out or help thai people to see the different between true democracy and the dictatorship,
From a (not so) diplomatic mind
A fair reflection of what’s common knowledge and general, never mind the generals’, view inside Burma on the history and origins of the Rohingya here:
http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=15082
Whilst not condoning in any way the ill treatment they received from the military regime and the Bangladeshi state’s poor record regarding the refugees, has any one outside bothered to ask the Rakhines who actually share their state with them, I wonder, never mind the Burmans?
Giles leaves Thailand
Colum Graham’s “Nothing is clear” is a fine basic introduction to logic, but stops at the introduction and doesn’t get to the issues – which is why, perhaps, “nothing is clear” – to him.
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
I would have to question some of the Thais writting on here if they have actually bothered to read everybodies comments before making knee jerk reactions.
Come on guys it’s infrantile.Please be very mature with this “Your country is wrong” Get with the rest of the world on this or fall more behind the way side
Abhisit on lese majeste
Abject Failure said:
“…In previous messages to Amnesty International in the UK they have been presented with clear evidence that Amnesty International in Thailand had links to the PAD ….”
Amnesty Thailand’s coziness with the PAD was very much the work of its former director for the country office, a veteran activist. After he openly stepped over the line with an unauthorized public statement, Amnesty’s London HQ pressured him for months to resign, and finally had to sack him. I’m not sure there was any press coverage of the problem – perhaps on Prachathai? – but this press release from Amnesty Intl Thailand touched on the affair:
The Board of Amnesty International Thailand has decided to withdraw unconditionally the Statement 2/2551 [11/12/2008]
The Board of Amnesty International Thailand has decided to withdraw unconditionally the Statement 2/2551 issued (in Thai only) on 29 Aug 2008 on р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕лр╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╣Гр╕вр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╕▒р╕Фр╣Бр╕вр╣Йр╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕З р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╕Др╕▓р╕бр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Ар╕кр╕гр╕╡р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щ (Concerns about the political conflict and threats to the rights and freedoms of the people). The dissemination of this statement was in contravention of the Amnesty International ‘Work on Own Country’ rule and failed to maintain Amnesty International standards of impartiality.
For an Amnesty International statement on the situation in Thailand, ‘State of Emergency should not infringe on human rights’ please see http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/thailand-state-emergency-should-not-infringe-human-rights-20080902.
http://www.amnesty.or.th/main/SubLibrary.asp?id=221&type=2&action=1
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
The issue is not only that yes, they are deprived of their rights and need help, but that the help they get is maligned, distorted, unwelcome and interferes with the real problem – not lack of rights, but overabundance of people in power willing to make sure those rights do not become an obstacle to their power base.
Giles in Oxford: Lese majeste in Thailand
Those closer to London may prefer to attend an identical event being held at SOAS on Monday, 23 Febuary at 7pm, in Room G2, SOAS main building.
From a (not so) diplomatic mind
Remarkable. It’s difficult to believe it’s not some sort of spoof.
That said, this is the official Myanmar position on the Rohingyas. I understand that when Mahathir Mohamad visited Rangoon in 2002 as part of his ‘constructive engagement’ with the regime, he asked the junta to take back some of the Rohingyas expelled to Bangladesh and those elsewhere in the region (people may recall Malaysia took a very firm stand indeed in the early 1990s on the issue). He was told, very bluntly, that “the Rohingyas are not our people, we don’t want them back”. Mahathir was apparently aghast and this contributed to his profound disillusionment with constructive engagement and his suggestion in 2003 that Myanmar should be expelled from ASEAN.
Abhisit on lese majeste
Abject Failure is correct. AI claim to have had a huge number of lese majeste emails, but have done nothing public.
All AI representatives say on lese majeste is that “Amnesty has decided to take up this matter privately with the Thai authorities at very high levels (rather than, at this point at least, to issue something publicly…). We appreciate that lese majeste is a concern to many people both within and outside of Thailand—-and that Amnesty’s decision might also be disappointing—-but we reached this decision after considerable strategizing as to how we might most effectively influence the situation.”
AI’s so-called strategy is likely to be due to the nature of its membership in Thailand. In a recent Nation article (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/28/politics/politics_30094336.php), there is a hint of what has happened to AI in Thailand: “At one point last year, the Thai chapter of Amnesty International even issued a statement which could be read supporting the PAD – only to see their statement retracted after people in Amnesty’s main office in London intervened.”
So it is not hard to guess how their membership views lese majeste.
Sirivat’s sufficiency sandwich success
Dear Mr. Sirivat
Thank’s for motovation speach in Prudential Convention Jakarta. Februari 12th, 2009.
I will learn from you and take the spirit to brake trought the most dificult in life it’s ego, and memories of the past.
The important is what about the future & what must We do to reach our wiah & dreams
Hope to hear for your next speach in Indonesia.
Regards & GBU
Bernardus