A very interesting and rational perspective on human rights in Thailand, thanks khun Paul.
Focusing on the boat people,a Dem party member(forgot his name,sorry) recently did mention the endless demand for cheap illegal labors in the south and Malaysia as a major factor luring these boat people to land on Thai shores. A massive scale of human trafficking can’t be done without the “cooperation” from some corrupt authorities,or even get involved themselves. So Thai government should pay more attention to the issue of illegal labors rather than trying in vain to push back the illegal immigrants along the thousand kilometres border.
One other thing,every time the medias called Thailand a bad name,the immediate responses from the government was always the conspiracy theories. The medias were paid by some one to defame Thailand! Does it matter whether they were bribed or not if they conveyed the TRUTH? pathetic
his week’s edition of The Economist has not been distributed in Thailand because of local objections to an article about the royal family, the second disruption in two months, the magazine says.
It would be very interesting to do a little research and discover just what is the ambit of the LM laws.
The relevant provisions in the criminal code can only reveal so much.
What is needed, and this requires someone with a bit of time on their hands, is to look at the relevant case law and examine how the courts have interpreted those provisions.
From that case law, which is presumably public knowledge since Thai lawyers will refer to it under the doctrine of precedent, it would then be possible to get a clear idea of what sort of acts constitute LM and what do not.
The case law will define key statutory terms and afford glimpses of how the judiciary in the past, and might in the future, interpret the law in so far as they have a discretion to do so. I’m assuming here, of course, that the Thai common law system functions according to principles which apply in other common law jurisdictions such as England or the US.
Can’t see Abhisit having the guts to take on the military over the Rohinya accusations. It would be commiting suicide, given Abhisit sneaked into the PM’s office with a wink and a nod from Gen. Anapong, the Army chief.
I wonder if the military is behind the pressure to crack down on public discussion using the les majeste laws?
Thai Airways International (THAI), which has 51% government ownership, admitted on Friday that the firm need 34 billion Thai baht to stay afloat, according to The Nation on Monday, January 26, 2009. This was followed by a call today by prominent economist Ammar Siamwalla that the entire board of directors should be sacked before the Finance Ministry bails them out with any more money. So it looks like they are indeed in grave financial difficulty. THAI lost Bt6.6 billion in the first 9 months of last year, and the 4th quarter losses are expected to reach annual net losses of over Bt9 billion. Among other blunders, they locked in paying $100 per barrel for jet fuel in a 9-month hedging contract from last July!
I am puzzled and disturbed to see no new media coverage in either the Bangkok Post or The Nation on any of the human rights issues discussed in this blog. There was a very meek opinion piece by Kavi Chongkittavorn backing Thailand’s call for a “focus-group” meeting of ASEAN nations on the Rohingya refugee issue in the January 26 Nation, but no coverage of the new photos and revelations by international media sources CNN, Time magazine, or InTheNews.co.uk.
I’m sorry Mr. Anderson, but it seems that your PAD-bolstering academic friend are unlikely being deterred because they are passively afraid,
but rather they have been very actively PAiD.
The comprehensively aggressive elite-client strategy of coercion/deception has formed the underpinnings of the premeditated violence and provocation of PAD public outreach probably means your conveniently tongue tied professor buddies are sitting on a much heftier bundle than Wichai from the construction crew was delivering the physical blows to supplement the PAD cheap shots hurled from the ethically and intellectually bankrupt Thai ivory tower.
Has anyone else noticed that the Thai Global Network satellite TV channel, which is an offshoot of Thai Army Channel 5 in Thailand has just changed its style.
The channels style has been generally appropriate for overseas Thai wanting to keep in touch with Thai culture, general news and royal family activities. Not enough harder news about political movements, etc., for some.
Suddenly, from Sunday morning 25 Jan, we have what seem to be semi-erotic music videos on almost constant display… the display also includes spinning pokies style gambling wheels and a Jackpot motif
does this signal that Thailand’s porn and gambling industries are reopening for serious business?
have they or will they be legalised?
is it related to the appointment of Pornthiwa Nakasai as Commerce Minister, supposed owner, or daughter of the owner, of Poseidon?
Regarding Post #41 above, wryly amusing that the ‘National News Bureau of Thailand’ (sic) can’t even spell the unfortunate Harry N’s name right in either Thai or English …
News Date : 24 January 2009
Foreigners warned of lese majeste charge leading to serious penalty
The Justice Ministry prepares to coordinate with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on publicizing Thailand’s serious penalties on lese majeste commitments among foreigners.
Following Australia’s request via the Foreign Ministry for royal amnesty to the convicted Australian journalist Harry Nicholas (р╣Бр╕ор╕гр╕╡р╣И р╕Щр╕┤р╣Вр╕Др╕ер╕▒р╕к), who was sentenced to three years in jail on a lese majeste charge, Justice Minister Peerapan Saleerattawipak (р╕Юр╕╡р╕гр╕░р╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕╕р╣М р╕кр╕▓р╕ер╕╡р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕зр╕┤р╕ар╕▓р╕Д) stated that presently no contacts have been initiated by the Foreign Ministry regarding the matter. However, all inmates have legal rights to seek royal amnesty as allowed by regulations of the Department of Corrections, which is in charge of submitting the request to the Justice Ministry for further actions.
Concerning lese majeste crime in Thailand, Mr. Peerapan indicated that the Justice Ministry has established coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as well as Thai embassies in foreign countries to disseminate information on seriousness of lese majeste laws in Thailand and the nation’s harsh punishments against violators.
I will have to agree that Sidd is oversimplifying and ignoring the problem as well as its nature.
Thailand is bound by religion, ethic, law and covenants it has signed to abide by international law in the field of human rights and freedom of expression. Citing geographical differences does not address the issue in the least. Whether you are Australian in Australia, Thai in Thailand, an American in Burma or a Frenchman in Spain, you are entitled to certain minimal rights and protections, over and above those being interpreted and handed out to you by people with wrongful vested interests at heart.
Thailand has to abide by legitimate and minimal human rights laws and ethics, and it has not been doing so since day one. To argue that “they are different” and “So we can’t say anything” is pure irrational apathy, confused perhaps by a sense of being an outcast as a foreigner here.
How can you, also, argue against criticizing the king when even he says it’s what he wants? He does not make slips of the tongue so easily. It’s just that the elite cordon that encircles is not going to allow this to happen, and will use hook and crook to make sure it does not. By hook and crook is meant daily regimentation, nationalist orchestration and denunciation of well-meaning critics.
Of course…even as a PAD-in-principle supporter, I find the PAD to have taken the same turn “they all take” here in Thailand – wanting to lead the parade, not wanting to work with others of slightly different mind, purposely twisting logic and truth to fit their purposes, etc. It’s just a Thai game, unfortunately, more than it is PAD.
A well known Thai intellectual told me recently that academics here in Thailand were afraid, and that was why they did not join together to fight this pogrom in court.
“There is little hope for change from within Thailand. The only thing that can really be done to improve the situation is to get more international observers on the ground and for other countries to take a more outspoken approach in their diplomacy with Thailand.”
We, Thai people who are now fighting with the elites and the military for “democracy” really need your help. Please help us bring in true democracy and human right to our land.
Confused:
If the king, or indeed anyone else, is the victim of malicious gossip, the subject of smear campaigns or maligned in the press or by any other person or group, there is recourse to the courts -specifically a civil action for defamation or slander.
True it’s somewhat undignified for the Crown to invoke such a court action, but this institution would rarely need to do so. There are other channels through which the crown could put its case and expose the nature of falsehoods.
Why, then, I ask are laws which confer rights over and above those accorded ordinary citizens deemed insufficient to protect the royal family?
It would seem that the Lese Majeste laws serve simply one purpose: to deprive those accused of defamation/slander of defenses which they might otherwise invoke.
But those defenses have evolved over generations. They are there to protect individual rights as well as those of society.
It is for apologists of LM laws to state exactly, then, what is the ‘higher need’ which requires that these defenses should no longer apply? What are the reasons why a democracy like Thailand requires lese majeste laws to function while other democracies can get along fine without them?
So, I’m back where I started: In what sense are the interests of Thai society served by Lese Majeste laws? And surely that is the question: how is Thai society served.
(A quick question: is the above post a breach of Lese Majeste laws?)
Sidd has come up with a couple of silly posts to NM so far. This one is interesting because s/he tries to tell informed persons that there is no reason or reasons to criticise the monarchy in Thailand. Clearly, Sidd never reads anything, not even the previous posts in the same thread. Propaganda is one thing. Repeating it is naive, and to quote Sidd, “a very stupid thing to do indeed.”
It is alarming to read all the negative unfounded comments about Harry on internet blogs and other online opinion sites (but not this one), particularly that he is a fool who brought the charge onto himself, knew what he was doing and deserves the punishment. Harry was not arrested for lese Majeste; but the corrupt Thai police know the real reason for grabbing him – improper political gain. How can the book be offensive when a copy still appears in the National Library of Thailand (which had also accepted the book)? Why was Harry able to travel internationally 5 times after the arrest warrant was issued and get a Thai visa? Why did it take 3 years after the alleged offence for an arrest warrant to be issued, especially when it seems the only evidence the Police had was the book? Why didn’t Harry receive responses to letters he had written to Thai government agencies and the Australian Ambassador in Bangkok PRIOR to publishing the book which sought guidance about whether the content of the book caused any difficulties? Harry’s case is not about Lese majeste but this seems to be what most uninformed readers think he has committed. In most Lese Majeste charges, nothing is at it seems. Harry is the victim of a Thai political game and the Australian government know this but have chosen to standby and let an Australian citizen rot in gaol. They also knew this was coming. Shame on them.
Oh no! The red shirts hit Santi Asoke people with footclappers, held tiny, peaceful rallies and wrote letters to foreign diplomats! Savages! Wasn’t it Santi Asoke people who were caught with a truckload of weapons in the good old days of PAD?
PADites seem tp remain active, threatening people and organisations they consider enemies.
Some 2,000 red-shirt supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra Saturday stormed through a security cordon of nearly 1,000 police officers to seize the stage of People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) demonstrators. The PAD’s Roi Et chapter had earlier announced a speech event, from 6pm Saturday, at Suan Somdet Phra Sinakarin Park. The red-shirts submitted a written objection on Friday to the Roi Et governor to stop the event. The red-shirts were led by former People Power Party MP Nisit Sinthuprai and Pheu Thai Party MPs Sakda Khongpetch, Kitti Somsab and Warawong Phansila. At 3pm Saturday some 2,000 red-shirts stormed through the police security cordon at the park and managed to seize the stage. This forced some 30 PAD supporters, who were preparing for the event, to remove signs, musical instruments and the whole stage in fear for their safety.
The Nation, 25 January 2009
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Thailand, international human rights and ISOC
A very interesting and rational perspective on human rights in Thailand, thanks khun Paul.
Focusing on the boat people,a Dem party member(forgot his name,sorry) recently did mention the endless demand for cheap illegal labors in the south and Malaysia as a major factor luring these boat people to land on Thai shores. A massive scale of human trafficking can’t be done without the “cooperation” from some corrupt authorities,or even get involved themselves. So Thai government should pay more attention to the issue of illegal labors rather than trying in vain to push back the illegal immigrants along the thousand kilometres border.
One other thing,every time the medias called Thailand a bad name,the immediate responses from the government was always the conspiracy theories. The medias were paid by some one to defame Thailand! Does it matter whether they were bribed or not if they conveyed the TRUTH? pathetic
Academic leadership
why are academics “demanding”
instead of suggesting, even requesting
do they think they represent the PAD or the army?
Lèse-majesté damages the monarchy and freedom
his week’s edition of The Economist has not been distributed in Thailand because of local objections to an article about the royal family, the second disruption in two months, the magazine says.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/136020/distributor-bans-economist-again
Volunteering to fight in Burma
DKBA soldiers burn down huts, detain villagers and loot property in Thailand
http://www.khrg.org/khrg2009/khrg09b1.html
Pictures destroyed migrant village -44 km School – Thanks to Ko Moe and SAW
http://picasaweb.google.com/moejoe1962/44km2?authkey=guMGsR4NbG8#
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Burma Army Threatens and Attempts to Bribe Parents of Raped and Murdered 7-yr-old Girl in Karen State.
http://www.freeburmarangers.org/Reports/2009/20090124.html
Lèse-majesté damages the monarchy and freedom
It would be very interesting to do a little research and discover just what is the ambit of the LM laws.
The relevant provisions in the criminal code can only reveal so much.
What is needed, and this requires someone with a bit of time on their hands, is to look at the relevant case law and examine how the courts have interpreted those provisions.
From that case law, which is presumably public knowledge since Thai lawyers will refer to it under the doctrine of precedent, it would then be possible to get a clear idea of what sort of acts constitute LM and what do not.
The case law will define key statutory terms and afford glimpses of how the judiciary in the past, and might in the future, interpret the law in so far as they have a discretion to do so. I’m assuming here, of course, that the Thai common law system functions according to principles which apply in other common law jurisdictions such as England or the US.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Can’t see Abhisit having the guts to take on the military over the Rohinya accusations. It would be commiting suicide, given Abhisit sneaked into the PM’s office with a wink and a nod from Gen. Anapong, the Army chief.
I wonder if the military is behind the pressure to crack down on public discussion using the les majeste laws?
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Ralph Kramden:
Thai Airways International (THAI), which has 51% government ownership, admitted on Friday that the firm need 34 billion Thai baht to stay afloat, according to The Nation on Monday, January 26, 2009. This was followed by a call today by prominent economist Ammar Siamwalla that the entire board of directors should be sacked before the Finance Ministry bails them out with any more money. So it looks like they are indeed in grave financial difficulty. THAI lost Bt6.6 billion in the first 9 months of last year, and the 4th quarter losses are expected to reach annual net losses of over Bt9 billion. Among other blunders, they locked in paying $100 per barrel for jet fuel in a 9-month hedging contract from last July!
I am puzzled and disturbed to see no new media coverage in either the Bangkok Post or The Nation on any of the human rights issues discussed in this blog. There was a very meek opinion piece by Kavi Chongkittavorn backing Thailand’s call for a “focus-group” meeting of ASEAN nations on the Rohingya refugee issue in the January 26 Nation, but no coverage of the new photos and revelations by international media sources CNN, Time magazine, or InTheNews.co.uk.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
I’m sorry Mr. Anderson, but it seems that your PAD-bolstering academic friend are unlikely being deterred because they are passively afraid,
but rather they have been very actively PAiD.
The comprehensively aggressive elite-client strategy of coercion/deception has formed the underpinnings of the premeditated violence and provocation of PAD public outreach probably means your conveniently tongue tied professor buddies are sitting on a much heftier bundle than Wichai from the construction crew was delivering the physical blows to supplement the PAD cheap shots hurled from the ethically and intellectually bankrupt Thai ivory tower.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Talking of the Thai government and human rights.
Has anyone else noticed that the Thai Global Network satellite TV channel, which is an offshoot of Thai Army Channel 5 in Thailand has just changed its style.
The channels style has been generally appropriate for overseas Thai wanting to keep in touch with Thai culture, general news and royal family activities. Not enough harder news about political movements, etc., for some.
Suddenly, from Sunday morning 25 Jan, we have what seem to be semi-erotic music videos on almost constant display… the display also includes spinning pokies style gambling wheels and a Jackpot motif
does this signal that Thailand’s porn and gambling industries are reopening for serious business?
have they or will they be legalised?
is it related to the appointment of Pornthiwa Nakasai as Commerce Minister, supposed owner, or daughter of the owner, of Poseidon?
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
Regarding Post #41 above, wryly amusing that the ‘National News Bureau of Thailand’ (sic) can’t even spell the unfortunate Harry N’s name right in either Thai or English …
News Date : 24 January 2009
Foreigners warned of lese majeste charge leading to serious penalty
The Justice Ministry prepares to coordinate with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on publicizing Thailand’s serious penalties on lese majeste commitments among foreigners.
Following Australia’s request via the Foreign Ministry for royal amnesty to the convicted Australian journalist Harry Nicholas (р╣Бр╕ор╕гр╕╡р╣И р╕Щр╕┤р╣Вр╕Др╕ер╕▒р╕к), who was sentenced to three years in jail on a lese majeste charge, Justice Minister Peerapan Saleerattawipak (р╕Юр╕╡р╕гр╕░р╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕╕р╣М р╕кр╕▓р╕ер╕╡р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕зр╕┤р╕ар╕▓р╕Д) stated that presently no contacts have been initiated by the Foreign Ministry regarding the matter. However, all inmates have legal rights to seek royal amnesty as allowed by regulations of the Department of Corrections, which is in charge of submitting the request to the Justice Ministry for further actions.
Concerning lese majeste crime in Thailand, Mr. Peerapan indicated that the Justice Ministry has established coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as well as Thai embassies in foreign countries to disseminate information on seriousness of lese majeste laws in Thailand and the nation’s harsh punishments against violators.
Statement on Harry Nicolaides
I will have to agree that Sidd is oversimplifying and ignoring the problem as well as its nature.
Thailand is bound by religion, ethic, law and covenants it has signed to abide by international law in the field of human rights and freedom of expression. Citing geographical differences does not address the issue in the least. Whether you are Australian in Australia, Thai in Thailand, an American in Burma or a Frenchman in Spain, you are entitled to certain minimal rights and protections, over and above those being interpreted and handed out to you by people with wrongful vested interests at heart.
Thailand has to abide by legitimate and minimal human rights laws and ethics, and it has not been doing so since day one. To argue that “they are different” and “So we can’t say anything” is pure irrational apathy, confused perhaps by a sense of being an outcast as a foreigner here.
How can you, also, argue against criticizing the king when even he says it’s what he wants? He does not make slips of the tongue so easily. It’s just that the elite cordon that encircles is not going to allow this to happen, and will use hook and crook to make sure it does not. By hook and crook is meant daily regimentation, nationalist orchestration and denunciation of well-meaning critics.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Of course…even as a PAD-in-principle supporter, I find the PAD to have taken the same turn “they all take” here in Thailand – wanting to lead the parade, not wanting to work with others of slightly different mind, purposely twisting logic and truth to fit their purposes, etc. It’s just a Thai game, unfortunately, more than it is PAD.
A well known Thai intellectual told me recently that academics here in Thailand were afraid, and that was why they did not join together to fight this pogrom in court.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Mr Daid Reid, You are right.
“There is little hope for change from within Thailand. The only thing that can really be done to improve the situation is to get more international observers on the ground and for other countries to take a more outspoken approach in their diplomacy with Thailand.”
We, Thai people who are now fighting with the elites and the military for “democracy” really need your help. Please help us bring in true democracy and human right to our land.
Thai from USA
Lèse-majesté damages the monarchy and freedom
Confused:
If the king, or indeed anyone else, is the victim of malicious gossip, the subject of smear campaigns or maligned in the press or by any other person or group, there is recourse to the courts -specifically a civil action for defamation or slander.
True it’s somewhat undignified for the Crown to invoke such a court action, but this institution would rarely need to do so. There are other channels through which the crown could put its case and expose the nature of falsehoods.
Why, then, I ask are laws which confer rights over and above those accorded ordinary citizens deemed insufficient to protect the royal family?
It would seem that the Lese Majeste laws serve simply one purpose: to deprive those accused of defamation/slander of defenses which they might otherwise invoke.
But those defenses have evolved over generations. They are there to protect individual rights as well as those of society.
It is for apologists of LM laws to state exactly, then, what is the ‘higher need’ which requires that these defenses should no longer apply? What are the reasons why a democracy like Thailand requires lese majeste laws to function while other democracies can get along fine without them?
So, I’m back where I started: In what sense are the interests of Thai society served by Lese Majeste laws? And surely that is the question: how is Thai society served.
(A quick question: is the above post a breach of Lese Majeste laws?)
Statement on Harry Nicolaides
Sidd has come up with a couple of silly posts to NM so far. This one is interesting because s/he tries to tell informed persons that there is no reason or reasons to criticise the monarchy in Thailand. Clearly, Sidd never reads anything, not even the previous posts in the same thread. Propaganda is one thing. Repeating it is naive, and to quote Sidd, “a very stupid thing to do indeed.”
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
It is alarming to read all the negative unfounded comments about Harry on internet blogs and other online opinion sites (but not this one), particularly that he is a fool who brought the charge onto himself, knew what he was doing and deserves the punishment. Harry was not arrested for lese Majeste; but the corrupt Thai police know the real reason for grabbing him – improper political gain. How can the book be offensive when a copy still appears in the National Library of Thailand (which had also accepted the book)? Why was Harry able to travel internationally 5 times after the arrest warrant was issued and get a Thai visa? Why did it take 3 years after the alleged offence for an arrest warrant to be issued, especially when it seems the only evidence the Police had was the book? Why didn’t Harry receive responses to letters he had written to Thai government agencies and the Australian Ambassador in Bangkok PRIOR to publishing the book which sought guidance about whether the content of the book caused any difficulties? Harry’s case is not about Lese majeste but this seems to be what most uninformed readers think he has committed. In most Lese Majeste charges, nothing is at it seems. Harry is the victim of a Thai political game and the Australian government know this but have chosen to standby and let an Australian citizen rot in gaol. They also knew this was coming. Shame on them.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Oh no! The red shirts hit Santi Asoke people with footclappers, held tiny, peaceful rallies and wrote letters to foreign diplomats! Savages! Wasn’t it Santi Asoke people who were caught with a truckload of weapons in the good old days of PAD?
PADites seem tp remain active, threatening people and organisations they consider enemies.
Thailand’s political prisoners
Ralph,….it is blocked!.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Another “peaceful” UDD protest?
Red-shirts take over PAD rally site
Some 2,000 red-shirt supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra Saturday stormed through a security cordon of nearly 1,000 police officers to seize the stage of People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) demonstrators. The PAD’s Roi Et chapter had earlier announced a speech event, from 6pm Saturday, at Suan Somdet Phra Sinakarin Park. The red-shirts submitted a written objection on Friday to the Roi Et governor to stop the event. The red-shirts were led by former People Power Party MP Nisit Sinthuprai and Pheu Thai Party MPs Sakda Khongpetch, Kitti Somsab and Warawong Phansila. At 3pm Saturday some 2,000 red-shirts stormed through the police security cordon at the park and managed to seize the stage. This forced some 30 PAD supporters, who were preparing for the event, to remove signs, musical instruments and the whole stage in fear for their safety.
The Nation, 25 January 2009