Roger: I think you misunderstand what “intent” means. Proving intent is actually not that difficult that movies make it appear.
PAD have also stated what their intent was and was for the Somchai, and in some cases, the government to resign. They were trying to compel the Thai government to do something.
The only question is whether it was serious or not. Loss of 200 billion baht in tourism revenue and other exporters who have been hurt seems fairly serious and causation seems to be established (but for PAD’s actions those things would not happened).
RK @ 25: You are begging the question. My comments, as I have stated in all 3 posts, were related to to 2 specific reports that you labelled as ” uninformed and un-informing.” (@#20) No need to go to earlier reports in order to discuss them – they are not even referred to in the 2 reports in question, so they are irrelevant.
Many of the participants on NM give evidence to support their arguments. Joy is a case in point: by her own admission she is not a Political Science academic. However, she draws from Thai literature (refreshing & broadening) & her own experience of living as a Thai through recent Thai history to support her contributions. She’s following the basic rules of argument. This makes for a more reasonable discussion in a situation where there could be a tendency towards bigotry & emotionalism (i.e. not a real debate). And it gives her arguments an authority that is equal to those of the academics.This results in a higher standard of (and broader) argument than would otherwise be the case in a discussion involving both academics & ‘lay’ observers.
re. “the excellent BBC “: I stated that as my personal opinion, with no intention of inferring that it was yours. Perhaps I was going a bit over the top, but in terms of journalistic integrity in a situation where the facts are often very difficult to get hold of, and diplomacy is often a big issue (LM, other forms of censorship), IMO they do an excellent job. “My nitpicking ” was not referring to this issue. It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to my refusal to bow out of an argument (re. the 2 reports) in which you were bending the rules by exceeding the parameters.
Aladdin, I think you’ve overlooked the section that bp emphasized — “If such acts are committed with the intention to threaten, or to compel the Thai Government, a foreign government, or an international organisation to do or abstain from doing any act which will cause serious damage or to cause disorder by creating widespread fear among the public [then] that person has committed a terrorist act.”
Now even in the West where we expect the courts to be reasonably unbiased, it is notoriously hard to prove intent. Of course if it was the Red Shirts the court would instantly accept without evidence that such was the case, but for the PAD I am sure the Thai courts will demand a very high level of proof, and the PAD will be saying, “We never intended to do any harm.”
But at least the law is explicit that the acts, which can be proven, are a criminal offense. Still, the PAD may argue, and the court may accept, that the damage done was not serious. By the way, I’m not a lawyer.
I enjoy reading Nganadeeleg and David Brown’s comments. I think reading both does help balance one’s political view, and somehow I feel both are right in their own way. I didn’t know about red and its hidden implication before.. well, the thing is so many of the red shirts explicitly show their devotion to Taksin (nothing wrong with that, they have a right to choose anyone as prospective saviour). However, for those who dislike this reliance on an individual (with highly questionable crime/corruption records)as a way out for the political dilemma or economic breakthrough, ‘red shirts’ seem not to represent us.Sorry for being repetitive here…I know I have said this before. BTW I can’t help adding that ‘red”s hidden leftist agenda kinda help draw support from left-wingers (who don’t care abt Taksin)… especially if one is so sick of the oppression and hypocrisy of the on-going image-making….Of course it is crucial to respect people’s right to be pro-xxx, yet the problem in Thailand is that those who don’t pro-xxx are highly vulnerable to being put to jail, publicly condemned and thus left no space to articulate their difference in a non-violent way.
Hat’s off to Krid. To me, his comments are consistently spot on, viz:
“Thailand had these ineffectual “compromising” governments for many years, running the country via backroom deals and entrenching a corrupt bureaucracy and executive branch where everyone shared the spoils including the military and the huge shadow economy.”
Personally, I think the whole current mess has nothing to do with democracy, or even Thaksin per se, but condenses down to this: there are two competing interest groups, both with significant financial, political and social clout, who are vying for the right to determine just how future governments are constituted and managed, and what benefits accrue to them as a result.
The coalition system to which Krid refers meant that the spoils were, to put it crudely, shared fairly evenly amongst the members of these groups. By forming a government that did not depend entirely on the support of various interest groups, Thaksin created divisions at the very top. Basically, “play the game my way and you still get the same opportunities as before. On the other hand, if you don’t want to play my way …” Hence there are many influential folk who’d welcome a return to the good ‘ol pre-Thaksin days.
Thailand is still a hugely hierarchic society, with many people obsessed with outward signs of status. Just look at philanthropy in Thailand – people want to be seen to be doing good, hence all those appalling charity fashion shows with Khunying This That and the Other as ‘guest models’. Ever heard of making an anonymous donation? Similarly, many Thais I know would happily donate to a temple, but find the idea of helping a stranger in need an alien concept.
Finally – and if Krid reads this maybe he can answer – there’s a question I have about the UDD and their choice of red as their colour. Several Thai friends (including one educated overseas since the age of 14) have said to me that this shows their antipathy to the monarchy, since red is the ‘kalakinee’ colour for Monday. As you may know, days of the week are associated with different colours: HM being born on a Monday, and yellow being the colour for Monday. Red is ‘kalakinee’ (I guess you could say unauspicious) for Monday. So, since you shouldn’t wear red on a Monday, my Thai friends say that the choice of red by the UDD in effect reveals their true colours. It all seems a bit far fetched to me, but I think it’s instructive in that it shows how, to some people, even something as seemingly trivial as a choice of colour can have some hidden and inflammatory meaning.
David Brown, thank you so much for your encouragement!! The idea is to have a party like the Green Party (of Germany??). I know this may sound very like a wishful thinking, and not so practical, but I have just posted my proposal in a Thai forum with about 15,000 members to see if anyone is interested.That forum is nothing to do with politics but they have so many active participants .. about 2,000 or so on line per day. Hopefull I can get some positive responses from those who feel that neither the PPP or the DP represent them.:-)People there may even come up with more interesting ways (than my ideal green party) to tackle with this current political tension.
for a privilaged minority to poison the results of a democratic election
Apparently you weren’t paying attention. The Justices unanimously found that PPP violated election laws. Therefore, the “election” was anything but democratic!
and hold a nation to ransom
What nation were you in during this time? I’ve been in BKK for ten years. I have not been inconvenienced or held ransom. PAD has done nothing that negatively affects me or most people who live here.
so that they can with hold the right of the rural poor to participate in the political process..
PAD isn’t withholding anyone’s rights. Whether they be rural poor, wealthy scumbags in their private jets or anyone in between.
With regards to the global economic situation I am very aware of the depth of it and how dubious and foolish the measures taken are
That being the case you are well aware that anything PAD is doing is inconsequential. As we are mere weeks away from a total worldwide collapse there aren’t going to be any tourist coming here any way.
I think there is a lot of similarity between the dude who funded PAD and Thaksin they are both very rich powerful people who use their influence to distort and deprive the basic rights of their fellow citizens.
I have no concrete details of the “dude” funding PAD as to be able to speak authoritatively one way or another about “him”.
As for Thaksin, a convicted criminal, a monomaniacal fascist scumbag who used his billions to create his own political party because none of the established ones wanted anything to do with his sociopathic tendencies, who then used more of his billions to buy votes in areas that had previously been ignored and who then used his position as Premier to steal multiple millions of Baht of the peoples money! He and members of TRT/PPP/??? should be banned for life. Thaksin should be in the dock at The Hague for crimes against humanity for the extrajudicial killings undertaken by his anti drugs campaign.
you dismiss the distress caused to displaced passengers – 350,000 people is a lot people to upset and the extent of the problems this will have caused is obviously beyond your simplistic comprehension
I recognize that people were inconvenienced by the inability to fly out of BKK for a week.
I know that had I needed to leave Thailand during that week I would have had no problem going wherever I wanted to go.
I certainly would not have wailed about how awful those mean people were treating me.
Therein lies the basis for the contempt you are alluding I hold.
Contempt for people who undertake international travel when they don’t have sufficient resources for these kinds of contingencies.
Contempt for people who wail rather than act. Who blame whoever is the meanie-du-jour rather than solve their own problem. They wanted to fly from BKK. They could not. Why didn’t they get on a train or bus or van or rent a car and drive to KL or Penang?
Then again had I been a tourist, I may have just accepted that the situation was beyond my control, extend my stay and enjoyed this beautiful Kingdom for a week or two longer. TAT handing out up to 2k Baht a day for room and board, heck yeah!
the rural poor that are so despised by you
I do not despise the rural poor, nor do I despise the metropolitan poor! How dare you!
I do despise Thaksin, cry babies and westerners who try to apply their ideas in an effort to make sense out of how or why things are done the way they’re done in Thailand or any other country other than the one they come from.
If you are unable or unwilling to accept that things are different, that rules you are comfortable with don’t apply everywhere then stay at home!
As a large number of the by-elections are in the north and northeast Red strongholds it would be poor tactics for PAD to try and attack or disrupt those elections. It’s a long way to Songkal for backup forces if they were to mobilize in the North and Northeast red strongholds. Having said that the PAD leaders are obviously non democratic and willing to sacrifice a few of their pawns in the battle to turn Thailand back into a feudal state.
It would be beneficial for the Pro government sides to use the PAD in their campaign pointing out the direct link between the Democrats and the PAD at every opportunity. Likewise it would also be a good tactic for the coalition parties to get together and only run a single candidate based on the party that had the seat removed by the court, this would stop the vote splitting and probably end in larger winning majorities. If the coalition parties can get a much larger percentage of the vote in all the constituencies than the last time it would be looked at as a blow to the anti-democratic movement and a show of support for the government.
What will be next?The new elected government chosen from the rest of MPs can be set up?The Demcrat party will cunningly take some advantage to propose itself a chance for taking seats as government?The PAD will ask the royal palace to send some one down as appointed prime minister?Who will pay the price for the consequences of PAD’s actions in the government’s house,Donmaung and Suwanabhumi international air ports?
Andrew – I found your comments quite compelling. What seems to be missing from those comments and the long list of responses to them is a systematic focus on the Democrat Party. This party is arguably one if not the major force, given its relatively solid electoral base in the South, that could help promote some degree of reconciliation. Could you or others provide some sense of 1) the degree of coherence or unity within this party, and 2) the party’s overall political calculus (if there is one).
I don’t want to keep this small debate going longer. If I go back to the transcripts and earlier reports and pick through them, that will only take this side debate further than it needs to at this point. I maintain that the reports were uninformed. By this I mean that they do not provide the information and especially do not provide the context that I have come to expect from the ABC sans Bangkok. Indeed, that’s what is usually expected from AM and PM. I agree that you are overly nitpicky on the comment on the BBC. As I said, if you find her comments informed, fine, you like her reports; I want more from the ABC in Bangkok.
David Brown, you are living in a fantasy world if you think democracy will mature in Thailand – until both sides accept what you say.
You put down one side and I can assure you, the other side will just pop up with the same, or at least very similar ways of wanting to keep the “masses” down…..albeit they might throw in a couple of enticing trinkets, such as the Baht30 Health Scheme and the equally popular village funds. Then they will just go on their merry way doing what Thai politicians do best………and that is not looking after their constituents. Get real my friend.
I am not the person you stereotype me as for a start I am not rich and not caught up in the whole consumer hype which Thailand has embraced with such enthusiasm. I object to the PAD and the airport protest because I think it is damaging to Thailand economically and socially – the fact that global economic conditions are deteriorating is reason to be shrewd and to work to maintain the economic strength that Thailand has developed. in shutting down the airport PAD has done more damage to Thailand that Thaksin they have severely damaged one of the worlds most successful tourist industries and threatened the lively hood of a massive amount people. In any other country this would never be allowed to happen – for a privilaged minority to poison the results of a democratic election and hold a nation to ransom so that they can with hold the right of the rural poor to participate in the political process – WTF?
With regards to the global economic situation I am very aware of the depth of it and how dubious and foolish the measures taken are I am not keen to blame the woes on the world on al queda or PAD as you suggest. I think there is a lot of similarity between the dude who funded PAD and Thaksin they are both very rich powerful people who use their influence to distort and deprive the basic rights of their fellow citizens.
Bosunj you dismiss the distress caused to displaced passengers – 350,000 people is a lot people to upset and the extent of the problems this will have caused is obviously beyond your simplistic comprehension – Maybe you can help pay the hundreds of millions this fiasco has cost the nation. Surely this vast amount of money could have been spent to improve the life of the rural poor that are so despised by you and the PAD maybe then they will vote in a way that is more popular with you and the BKK elite classes.
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The crowd and the crown by Philip Bowring
Roger: I think you misunderstand what “intent” means. Proving intent is actually not that difficult that movies make it appear.
PAD have also stated what their intent was and was for the Somchai, and in some cases, the government to resign. They were trying to compel the Thai government to do something.
The only question is whether it was serious or not. Loss of 200 billion baht in tourism revenue and other exporters who have been hurt seems fairly serious and causation seems to be established (but for PAD’s actions those things would not happened).
End of the royal taboo?
RK @ 25: You are begging the question. My comments, as I have stated in all 3 posts, were related to to 2 specific reports that you labelled as ” uninformed and un-informing.” (@#20) No need to go to earlier reports in order to discuss them – they are not even referred to in the 2 reports in question, so they are irrelevant.
Many of the participants on NM give evidence to support their arguments. Joy is a case in point: by her own admission she is not a Political Science academic. However, she draws from Thai literature (refreshing & broadening) & her own experience of living as a Thai through recent Thai history to support her contributions. She’s following the basic rules of argument. This makes for a more reasonable discussion in a situation where there could be a tendency towards bigotry & emotionalism (i.e. not a real debate). And it gives her arguments an authority that is equal to those of the academics.This results in a higher standard of (and broader) argument than would otherwise be the case in a discussion involving both academics & ‘lay’ observers.
re. “the excellent BBC “: I stated that as my personal opinion, with no intention of inferring that it was yours. Perhaps I was going a bit over the top, but in terms of journalistic integrity in a situation where the facts are often very difficult to get hold of, and diplomacy is often a big issue (LM, other forms of censorship), IMO they do an excellent job. “My nitpicking ” was not referring to this issue. It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to my refusal to bow out of an argument (re. the 2 reports) in which you were bending the rules by exceeding the parameters.
That’s all.
The crowd and the crown by Philip Bowring
Aladdin, I think you’ve overlooked the section that bp emphasized — “If such acts are committed with the intention to threaten, or to compel the Thai Government, a foreign government, or an international organisation to do or abstain from doing any act which will cause serious damage or to cause disorder by creating widespread fear among the public [then] that person has committed a terrorist act.”
Now even in the West where we expect the courts to be reasonably unbiased, it is notoriously hard to prove intent. Of course if it was the Red Shirts the court would instantly accept without evidence that such was the case, but for the PAD I am sure the Thai courts will demand a very high level of proof, and the PAD will be saying, “We never intended to do any harm.”
But at least the law is explicit that the acts, which can be proven, are a criminal offense. Still, the PAD may argue, and the court may accept, that the damage done was not serious. By the way, I’m not a lawyer.
New Mandala in The Age
I enjoy reading Nganadeeleg and David Brown’s comments. I think reading both does help balance one’s political view, and somehow I feel both are right in their own way. I didn’t know about red and its hidden implication before.. well, the thing is so many of the red shirts explicitly show their devotion to Taksin (nothing wrong with that, they have a right to choose anyone as prospective saviour). However, for those who dislike this reliance on an individual (with highly questionable crime/corruption records)as a way out for the political dilemma or economic breakthrough, ‘red shirts’ seem not to represent us.Sorry for being repetitive here…I know I have said this before. BTW I can’t help adding that ‘red”s hidden leftist agenda kinda help draw support from left-wingers (who don’t care abt Taksin)… especially if one is so sick of the oppression and hypocrisy of the on-going image-making….Of course it is crucial to respect people’s right to be pro-xxx, yet the problem in Thailand is that those who don’t pro-xxx are highly vulnerable to being put to jail, publicly condemned and thus left no space to articulate their difference in a non-violent way.
New Mandala in The Age
Hat’s off to Krid. To me, his comments are consistently spot on, viz:
“Thailand had these ineffectual “compromising” governments for many years, running the country via backroom deals and entrenching a corrupt bureaucracy and executive branch where everyone shared the spoils including the military and the huge shadow economy.”
Personally, I think the whole current mess has nothing to do with democracy, or even Thaksin per se, but condenses down to this: there are two competing interest groups, both with significant financial, political and social clout, who are vying for the right to determine just how future governments are constituted and managed, and what benefits accrue to them as a result.
The coalition system to which Krid refers meant that the spoils were, to put it crudely, shared fairly evenly amongst the members of these groups. By forming a government that did not depend entirely on the support of various interest groups, Thaksin created divisions at the very top. Basically, “play the game my way and you still get the same opportunities as before. On the other hand, if you don’t want to play my way …” Hence there are many influential folk who’d welcome a return to the good ‘ol pre-Thaksin days.
Thailand is still a hugely hierarchic society, with many people obsessed with outward signs of status. Just look at philanthropy in Thailand – people want to be seen to be doing good, hence all those appalling charity fashion shows with Khunying This That and the Other as ‘guest models’. Ever heard of making an anonymous donation? Similarly, many Thais I know would happily donate to a temple, but find the idea of helping a stranger in need an alien concept.
Finally – and if Krid reads this maybe he can answer – there’s a question I have about the UDD and their choice of red as their colour. Several Thai friends (including one educated overseas since the age of 14) have said to me that this shows their antipathy to the monarchy, since red is the ‘kalakinee’ colour for Monday. As you may know, days of the week are associated with different colours: HM being born on a Monday, and yellow being the colour for Monday. Red is ‘kalakinee’ (I guess you could say unauspicious) for Monday. So, since you shouldn’t wear red on a Monday, my Thai friends say that the choice of red by the UDD in effect reveals their true colours. It all seems a bit far fetched to me, but I think it’s instructive in that it shows how, to some people, even something as seemingly trivial as a choice of colour can have some hidden and inflammatory meaning.
Eureka Street article on Thai politics
Is it too much to think that NEW MANDALA can at least wish “Happy Birthday” to the man they seemingly obsess about?
New Mandala in The Age
David Brown, thank you so much for your encouragement!! The idea is to have a party like the Green Party (of Germany??). I know this may sound very like a wishful thinking, and not so practical, but I have just posted my proposal in a Thai forum with about 15,000 members to see if anyone is interested.That forum is nothing to do with politics but they have so many active participants .. about 2,000 or so on line per day. Hopefull I can get some positive responses from those who feel that neither the PPP or the DP represent them.:-)People there may even come up with more interesting ways (than my ideal green party) to tackle with this current political tension.
New Mandala in The Age
David Brown said: “I agree.. the focus on Thaksin is unproductive and unnecessary”
Please tell that to the procession of PPP hacks who have a hotline to London, Hong Kong or wherever the master currently is 🙂
Why did they allow him to keep his diplomatic passport?
– to make it easier to keep coincidentally running into him on their overseas trips?
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
for a privilaged minority to poison the results of a democratic election
Apparently you weren’t paying attention. The Justices unanimously found that PPP violated election laws. Therefore, the “election” was anything but democratic!
and hold a nation to ransom
What nation were you in during this time? I’ve been in BKK for ten years. I have not been inconvenienced or held ransom. PAD has done nothing that negatively affects me or most people who live here.
so that they can with hold the right of the rural poor to participate in the political process..
PAD isn’t withholding anyone’s rights. Whether they be rural poor, wealthy scumbags in their private jets or anyone in between.
With regards to the global economic situation I am very aware of the depth of it and how dubious and foolish the measures taken are
That being the case you are well aware that anything PAD is doing is inconsequential. As we are mere weeks away from a total worldwide collapse there aren’t going to be any tourist coming here any way.
I think there is a lot of similarity between the dude who funded PAD and Thaksin they are both very rich powerful people who use their influence to distort and deprive the basic rights of their fellow citizens.
I have no concrete details of the “dude” funding PAD as to be able to speak authoritatively one way or another about “him”.
As for Thaksin, a convicted criminal, a monomaniacal fascist scumbag who used his billions to create his own political party because none of the established ones wanted anything to do with his sociopathic tendencies, who then used more of his billions to buy votes in areas that had previously been ignored and who then used his position as Premier to steal multiple millions of Baht of the peoples money! He and members of TRT/PPP/??? should be banned for life. Thaksin should be in the dock at The Hague for crimes against humanity for the extrajudicial killings undertaken by his anti drugs campaign.
you dismiss the distress caused to displaced passengers – 350,000 people is a lot people to upset and the extent of the problems this will have caused is obviously beyond your simplistic comprehension
I recognize that people were inconvenienced by the inability to fly out of BKK for a week.
I know that had I needed to leave Thailand during that week I would have had no problem going wherever I wanted to go.
I certainly would not have wailed about how awful those mean people were treating me.
Therein lies the basis for the contempt you are alluding I hold.
Contempt for people who undertake international travel when they don’t have sufficient resources for these kinds of contingencies.
Contempt for people who wail rather than act. Who blame whoever is the meanie-du-jour rather than solve their own problem. They wanted to fly from BKK. They could not. Why didn’t they get on a train or bus or van or rent a car and drive to KL or Penang?
Then again had I been a tourist, I may have just accepted that the situation was beyond my control, extend my stay and enjoyed this beautiful Kingdom for a week or two longer. TAT handing out up to 2k Baht a day for room and board, heck yeah!
the rural poor that are so despised by you
I do not despise the rural poor, nor do I despise the metropolitan poor! How dare you!
I do despise Thaksin, cry babies and westerners who try to apply their ideas in an effort to make sense out of how or why things are done the way they’re done in Thailand or any other country other than the one they come from.
If you are unable or unwilling to accept that things are different, that rules you are comfortable with don’t apply everywhere then stay at home!
PAD’s by-election poison
As a large number of the by-elections are in the north and northeast Red strongholds it would be poor tactics for PAD to try and attack or disrupt those elections. It’s a long way to Songkal for backup forces if they were to mobilize in the North and Northeast red strongholds. Having said that the PAD leaders are obviously non democratic and willing to sacrifice a few of their pawns in the battle to turn Thailand back into a feudal state.
It would be beneficial for the Pro government sides to use the PAD in their campaign pointing out the direct link between the Democrats and the PAD at every opportunity. Likewise it would also be a good tactic for the coalition parties to get together and only run a single candidate based on the party that had the seat removed by the court, this would stop the vote splitting and probably end in larger winning majorities. If the coalition parties can get a much larger percentage of the vote in all the constituencies than the last time it would be looked at as a blow to the anti-democratic movement and a show of support for the government.
New Mandala’s stepping stones to a coup
What will be next?The new elected government chosen from the rest of MPs can be set up?The Demcrat party will cunningly take some advantage to propose itself a chance for taking seats as government?The PAD will ask the royal palace to send some one down as appointed prime minister?Who will pay the price for the consequences of PAD’s actions in the government’s house,Donmaung and Suwanabhumi international air ports?
Six threats and one opportunity
Andrew – I found your comments quite compelling. What seems to be missing from those comments and the long list of responses to them is a systematic focus on the Democrat Party. This party is arguably one if not the major force, given its relatively solid electoral base in the South, that could help promote some degree of reconciliation. Could you or others provide some sense of 1) the degree of coherence or unity within this party, and 2) the party’s overall political calculus (if there is one).
Many thanks for your excellent work!
Rick
The crowd and the crown by Philip Bowring
Under Section 135/1 of the Thai Criminal Code [see Bangkok Pundit: http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/11/what-is-terrorist-act.html%5D the PAD’s armed seizure of Suwannaphum and Don Mueang airports is by definition a terrorist act.
The seizure effectively held up to 300 000 foreign travellers hostage in Thailand.
It is well-known that the PAD has the backing of the royal family and in particular the Queen.
The Thai monarchy deserves the most severe condemnation by the international community.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
PAD seem more like the Khmer Rouge……
Yes indeed, bodies are stacked like cord wood all over the grounds of both airports and Government House! News at eleven!
Yet more hyperbole from the extremist-capitalists.
End of the royal taboo?
I don’t want to keep this small debate going longer. If I go back to the transcripts and earlier reports and pick through them, that will only take this side debate further than it needs to at this point. I maintain that the reports were uninformed. By this I mean that they do not provide the information and especially do not provide the context that I have come to expect from the ABC sans Bangkok. Indeed, that’s what is usually expected from AM and PM. I agree that you are overly nitpicky on the comment on the BBC. As I said, if you find her comments informed, fine, you like her reports; I want more from the ABC in Bangkok.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
amberwaves: It seems Thanong’s task is to create rumours and misinformation as a mouthpiece for PAD.
PAD’s by-election poison
David Brown, you are living in a fantasy world if you think democracy will mature in Thailand – until both sides accept what you say.
You put down one side and I can assure you, the other side will just pop up with the same, or at least very similar ways of wanting to keep the “masses” down…..albeit they might throw in a couple of enticing trinkets, such as the Baht30 Health Scheme and the equally popular village funds. Then they will just go on their merry way doing what Thai politicians do best………and that is not looking after their constituents. Get real my friend.
New Mandala in The Age
Joy,
please form your own political party….
they all start off perfect… lets see if you can keep yours that way
and I agree.. the focus on Thaksin is unproductive and unnecessary
mostly people focus on Thaksin as a reaction to the PAD…
because Sondhi needed a symbol to hate because he was destroying the rich families grip on power
so Sondhi kept him famous
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
Bosunj
I am not the person you stereotype me as for a start I am not rich and not caught up in the whole consumer hype which Thailand has embraced with such enthusiasm. I object to the PAD and the airport protest because I think it is damaging to Thailand economically and socially – the fact that global economic conditions are deteriorating is reason to be shrewd and to work to maintain the economic strength that Thailand has developed. in shutting down the airport PAD has done more damage to Thailand that Thaksin they have severely damaged one of the worlds most successful tourist industries and threatened the lively hood of a massive amount people. In any other country this would never be allowed to happen – for a privilaged minority to poison the results of a democratic election and hold a nation to ransom so that they can with hold the right of the rural poor to participate in the political process – WTF?
With regards to the global economic situation I am very aware of the depth of it and how dubious and foolish the measures taken are I am not keen to blame the woes on the world on al queda or PAD as you suggest. I think there is a lot of similarity between the dude who funded PAD and Thaksin they are both very rich powerful people who use their influence to distort and deprive the basic rights of their fellow citizens.
Bosunj you dismiss the distress caused to displaced passengers – 350,000 people is a lot people to upset and the extent of the problems this will have caused is obviously beyond your simplistic comprehension – Maybe you can help pay the hundreds of millions this fiasco has cost the nation. Surely this vast amount of money could have been spent to improve the life of the rural poor that are so despised by you and the PAD maybe then they will vote in a way that is more popular with you and the BKK elite classes.
PAD’s by-election poison
The old, traditional families should recognise the realities and
instead of wasting their time and wealth, and the wealth of Thailand, in
fighting against the future
they should direct their energies and capabilities to learning to live in the new democratic Thailand.