But violent invasion is not the only way to achieve that peace and democracy we all love. WE the people of Burma have suffered enough. Engagement and talks among all the parties involved is the best and only way forward to solve the complex Burma problem.
Ukrist presents some important points though muchof this already known to many readers. However, there is a postscript that needs to be added for a fairer hearing. Political scientists have been slack on probbing for truths.
A year or so back the junta had requested that Sodhi L. ask Luang Ta Maha Bua for access to the Reserve Funds. This was refused. Sondhi never again returned. Luang Ta may have ben set up in the proceeding two years by Sondhi and his friends who attempted to get close to the revered monk and continue to mis-inform him of political and economic realities. These funds were established with the economic recovery of the nation post-2007 under Thaksin’s management- a fact which critics do not acknowledge. A year after the 2006 coup the coup-makers and friends squandered massive amount of the nation’s wealth for nice fascist toys and an impressive and extensive propaganda campaign to discredit Thaksin (seemingly effective even today). They used the Sangha as only one means to achieve this rift. Leaked sources indicate that Thaksin’s billions have been used by these same people taken out of his domestic bank accouts (at the time frozen) so Thaksin had to be found guilty at any cost- even changing the law and emplacing judiciary that were anti-Thaksin and pro-Democrat (who were in alliance with the military for their own ambitions). Thaksin therefore has to be found guilty and he must be imprisoned. The outcome has already been determined way back. The 2006 Constitution reflects the desparation of these folk to protect their illegal acts. The real puppet Master is not Thaksin (re-Andrew Walker) but Prem. That is another story and too long to relay here. The coup-makers and friends cannot be touched as long as the 2006 Constitution is not changed. Hence the desparation by these people not to change the Constitution. As it stands PAD are now proposing 70-30 system whereby 70% of lower house are “selected” (by guess who?), while 30% are elected.This is not “democracy” by any stretch of the imagination; neither is the arrogant urban, elite attitude that the peasantry are stupid and don’t know anything. I would argue that they know more about true democracy than PAD. You have all been duped.
Jesus Christ, almighty! I thought only we Burmese have that paranoid schizophrenia of accusing every other Burmese of working for Burmese Military Intelligence.
Come on mate. Don’t go for a low blow, fair dinkum. Everyone loves peace and democracy!
Ladyboy#15, it is up to people affected to file court cases to the judiciary. I suppose you can too (just use your real name) – as Republican, AjarnSomsak etal could. And PMThaksin is not “out of the way” – he merely flee bail – and that is why I am very disappointed. Having PMThaksin in jail will send chills to all other perpetrators of state abuse – even those opposed to him.
Bangkok Pundit: “It is the most solid case.” This might very well be the case. What I am asking for is not any opinion on the case, which are plenty. I am asking for a solid legal interpretation for non-lawyers, which does the case justice. Have you seen any (in Thai or English)?
Thanks Nick. As I’ve said, they’ll be little chance of violence if the UDD and its permutations simply avoid PAD rallies. I also hope the governments of the day, in order to encourage broader democracy, open up new neutral forums whether through the medias and organized public events nationwide to air and discuss differences of opinions. This should also serve long term societal reconcilliation and establishment of ground rules, good practices, minimum expectations of politicians etc. for civic society, from local to national
Andrew has also refused my democratic right to reply to your previous #70 comment addressed to me (“PAD – ready for violence”). I wonder if this is a page from Jakrapob (I agree with your comments about him and that his speech was great, but he was the wrong messenger considering that he is clearly under PMThaksin’s patronage. He owes his political existence to the Shinawatras). I will try posting them here as I think it is related to our discussions:
Andrew, I reserve the right to shortly respond to Nick as he has addressed #70 to me.
I will just say, Nick, that you are fearing what will never materialize – even sane participants in PAD’s rallies realize this. At the end of day, PAD are a group of protestors, while TRT/PPP have been running the country for most of the past 8 years. I am stating the obvious here Nick, but there’s a world of difference between protestors SAYING things and governments IMPLEMENTING things…
To your pessimism, I have no choice but to be optimistic. You might be proven right, but as a Thai with most of my family and friends living and working in the country, I hope and believe that you are very wrong…
And to finish this off, a bit of good news for you as the PAD have finally used their weapon see:
Yesterday a 70:30 undemocratic formula, today “against change to the constitution”, what of tomorrow? And SO WHAT? But, IN CONTRAST, a government can continue its War on Drugs policy, or its eye for an eye policies in the South, or change the National Parks law to allow further exploitation by big businesses… It can choose to be more engaging, at least with the people’s representatives in parliament (even better, practice more transparent participatory politics), before issuing directives. Lets also look where the ball is going and not just at the coach shouting protests at the referee…
“…he was really just part of the same old problem.”
The conflict could very well enter round two with PAD versus the banned TRT executives trying amend the constitution so they can repeat more “old problems,” namely politics as a competition to stack the government full loyal cronies that will help you extract rents.
For example, the current ICT minister is the protege of Vatana, currently holed up in a Cambodian hotel trying to evade punishment for the ADB financed waste treatment project he used as a wealth generating machine. Supposedly, the ICT minister stacked the ministry with loyal family members:
Aha Fonzi my worthy adversary still ranting about the hypocrisy of the righteous Thais who are now (belatedly?) singling Thaksin for the carnage during anti-drugs and the South flare-up. Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit both at least cannot be faulted for their consistency about the inconsistencies, they believe, of Thai justice in the case of one Thaksin Shinawatra.
Plenty of time, Fonzi says, the junta appointed PM Surayud had enough of to put the stakes on that blood thirsty extra-injudicious Thaksin. Now Fonzi you must be ranting… Unless you were suggesting PM Surayud at that time to employ mass arrests and coercive methods to get confessions and other rushed evidence against Thaksin on the extra-judicials. (Not to mention of course other national priorities at those precarious immediate post-coup times?)
But of course Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit both believe Thai justice should ‘consistently’ be pursued in the order of bottoms up to the ladder and sequentially, before Thaksin Shinawatra should be tried.
Meaning every police death squad shooters by rank first, before Thaksin and all past government leaders still living directly or indirectly responsible for any previous extra-judicials, before Thaksin. (That is fairy tale justice, fair and consistent, that would satisfy Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit).
But I could really be stricken by a heart attack or stroke if Thailand somehow sometime get the courage to formally/judicially try Thaksin and/or any his police death squad cohorts for the anti-drugs killing madness during Thaksin’s rule.
Dear Hla Oo,
Do you work for Burmese Military Intelligence? The slant you are taking on this matter would appear to lead many people to this conclusion. You words echo the very same message at the junta generals use in order for them to remain in power, that is foreign stooges are trying to take over Burma. Your subtleties are certainly not missed by this reader.
The US certainly did not back U Nu in his attempts to restore democracy in Burma. The CIA supplied funds in order to block the spread of the Burmese Communist Party (BCP). This was backed by Thailand and Bo Mya and the KNLA/KNU who prevented BCP cadre and units from moving south along the border through Karen held territory. So yes, there certainly was US money involved, but not in the manner you have presented here.
It certainly wasn’t the people’s milita who stopped U Nu moving into the delta region of Burma. The tatmadaw had implemented their 4 cuts strategy long before U Nu a small band of U Nu’s men arrived in the delta and their establishment of forts and lookout posts all along this area had already routed much of the KNLA resistance from this region. So again, you are misrepresenting the facts.
Today, I would dare the military junta to arm the militias and the general population to keep the foreign lacky’s from taking over the country. In so doing they would sow the seeds for their own destruction. Only those affiliated with the military support the generals as it is in their own financial and social upward mobility to do so. The general population in the country are enslaved to do the military’s bidding.
Though the generals purport to be the one uniting force in the country they have surpassed their use by date many years ago. However, it is in their own vested interests to continue along this line of reasoning and deny democracy for the masses. For if they were to hand over power to a civilian government they very well know that they will be charged with crimes against humanity and hauled off to the International Court of Justice in the Hague.
The problem they now face is the fact that their own armed forces are going to turn on them directly. No longer are the troops in the field guaranteed of upward social mobility by being in the armed forces. The troops are starving and thus robbing and stealing food from villagers in order for them to survive. Their families no longer get free education, medical treatment nor housing or food supplements. Only the officers get this. Hence the military is set to implode upon itself in the not to distant future.
The generals are masters at playing one side off against the other in order to stay in power. Because of it’s unique geostrategic position, no country is going to make an armed incursion into Burma. Nobody wan’s Chinese naval bases in the Andaman Sea because they then have the ability to block the Malacca Straits and thus starve the Asian region of oil and trade goods. India dislikes China immensely as China does India and as you said, the US is stretched to breaking point. So the general’s are sitting pretty because of this and continuing their enslavement of the people. They do not want peace with the warring ethnic groups because they will no longer have an excuse to stay in power if all armed conflict ends. They would not be able to justify their huge numbers of military personnel Blind Freedy can see this. 500 000 troops to contain 5000 KNLA troops and no perceivable outside military threats? No Hla Oo, the tatmadaw are basically prison wardens containing the civilian population of Burma. Burma is one big open prison. May the long suffering people of this country one day find peace and democracy.
If you have a shrimp (prawn) meal in any Chinese or Asian restaurant in Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, London, or even LA most of your money are filling the deep pockets of Burmese Generals who are massively exploiting the cheap labor in Burma.
Shrimp processing is the most labor intensive process and no technology is currently available to replace that labor. Most popular processed prawn meat is called P&D meat. It basically means peeled and divined.
To produce that a very young Burmese girl, sometimes just a child, has to stand on her feet 12 hours a day peeling the wet skin and cutting out the small shit line off an individual prawn picked out of a huge pile of caught or farmed prawns. She has to work on so many prawns, at the end of her shift her fingers would be hard dried and senseless that she wouldn’t be able to use them for a while. All that cruel works for as low as just 25 cents a day.
Container loads of prawn meat from Burma are imported by the western democracies every day so that we can eat the yum cha cheaply. All the prawn processing plants in Burma are owned directly by the army as a whole through “Myanmar Economic Holding” or owned individually by the generals as the exporting business of prawn meat is the most lucrative business available in Burma even surpassing the gem trade. Stop eating Burmese prawns, I honestly believe, could hurt Burmese generals more than arming Karens fighting on the border.
So next time you eat a prawn meal in an Asian restaurant think of this post, then curse the Burmese generals and pray for the poor Burmese girls, for they are the ones making it your meal as cheap as possible and thus enjoyable.
People love to complain about Thaksin. But Thailand’s problems come down to the law not being applied equally to everybody and is used as a tool to destroy political enemies instead of serving justice and the Thai people.
At the risk of giving you a heart attack, Fonzi, I agree.
However (and sorry to harp on about Thaksin), on this site and others, there has been a lot of barracking for Thaksin as some sort of savior, when he was really just part of the same old problem.
At further risk of heart attacks, Republican, Somsak J & others might be surprised to know that I do have sympathy for their cause, however IMO continuing to support Thaksin after he had shown his true colors did not help and, if anything, has setback their cause.
And no, I don’t think they were/are in his pay – I just think they are desperate after all these years.
So of my detractors might have a heart attack, but I think Thaksin crying about not receiving justice is pretty pathetic, especially when I think he did use those same instruments of power to protect himself and his cronies while he was in power.
However, those detractors who might have had a heart attack from what I just wrote seem a little hypocritical to me.
What is up with all the rants about Thaksin’s so-called extrajudicial killings during the “War on Drugs” and his policies in the South?
The Surayud regime had plenty of time to investigate and bring to justice all those police officers, generals, and bureaucrats that supposedly supported Thaksin during his murderous rampages and actually pulled the triggers and earned the profits from that mayhem and death, yet nothing was done at all. Kraisak Choonhavan set up a special committee during the Surayud era to find the perpetrators responsible for the murders during the “War on Drugs.” How many were prosecuted?
Thaksin was not an island all unto himself who was personally killing people. Others were involved. They are still living freely in Thailand as we speak. They are not in exile hiding from the law. And nobody seems to be complaining about them.
People love to complain about Thaksin. But Thailand’s problems come down to the law not being applied equally to everybody and is used as a tool to destroy political enemies instead of serving justice and the Thai people.
The obituary for Thaksin’s political life today in the Bangkok Post by Thaksin’s former spokesperson was more insightful than this Economist article, the article stresses how radical change gave birth to enemies in many quarters and conflict, not unlike Mikheil Saakashvili in Georgia:
LET IT BE For Thaksin, it is the end of the road
SURANAND VEJJAJIVA
…The TRT won the 2001 election handily…The TRT won again in the 2005 election…
Throughout, the public was willing to overlook the small “honest mistake” Mr Thaksin made in his assets declaration and the unusual share transfers…
He survived the ordeal in 2001 by a hair margin, but the storm continued to gather…
As his power grew, he became over-confident. Already collecting a fair share of enemies as he introduced radical changes in the bureaucracy, he further upset the status quo by antagonising many other interest groups, including the old establishment and the intellectuals, which were actually his early supporters….
The 2006 coup ended it all… leading to various pending cases in the courts and the NCCC.
In hindsight, it also was Mr Thaksin’s own ethical dilemma that became his undoing. Although he started his political path with creative ideas and supposedly good intentions, he could never entirely separate his public life from that of his business.
[The article on Thai telecoms in Pasuk and Baker’s Thai Capital gives all the details]
His shareholdings and financial dealings tangled with him throughout his political career….
But as the financing of his businesses was perceived as being indistinct from the financing of political ambitions, and as the power of government seemed to benefit selected businesses, that trust was lost.
I sincerely hope that history will be kinder to Mr Thaksin and give due credit to his accomplishments while, of course, apprehending his failure to recognise the complex moral issues that led him to the end of the political road….
Shooting the messenger? Why stop at Burma? Why wasn’t there a Lonely Planet Thailand boycott after thousands of citizens lost their lives in the drug wars? And what about Lao PDR, the darling of the international aid agencies? Is the Lao autocratic regime radically different from Burma’s? Or are the Lao simply better at hiding their misdeeds and stifling any dissent? Where is the outcry over the forced relocation by the Lao authorities of thousands of highlanders from their mountain villages to lowland resettlement areas? Tourists, using their Lonely Planet Lao PDR, can visit the displaced Akha, Lahu and Hmong (lining roads in Luang Nam Tha and Bokeo provinces) and see for themselves the government-imposed suffering. Then there is China…and lets not forget the massive human rights abuses being perpetrated by the US military. Sri Lanka is another country with a dubious human rights record, but then again, is it any worse than Indonesia’s ? Admittedly a good case can be made against supporting the Burmese Junta in any way at all, but lets not get selective here with our subjective judgments. To be safe, and fair, boycott all guidebooks! They take the adventure out of travel anyway. And while we are at it, we might as well blacklist any websites that have contributions from individuals who support travel to Burma. The list could also include governments and individuals who donated aid via the Burmese authorities to help the cyclone victims. The $1.6 million the Junta scammed off them in rip-off exchange rates could fund a lot of repression. Sanctions/boycotts/military intervention? Sounds a bit like Iraq. For the sake of the citizens of Burma and other people living under repressive regimes, one would hope that there is a more effective and humanitarian way to bring about change. Any suggestions?
Nick, some people are so desperate to bash China right now that they will make anything up. Absolutely everything Beijing does is being subjected to the most minute scrutiny by pompous Western journalists in the hope that it will screw up. I think that, especially under such circumstances, anonymous claims like this have to be treated with the scepticism they deserve.
Those who ignore root causes tend to get lost in the minutia.
It is impossible to even begin to understand what is happening in Thailand without considering the pending royal succession or the chasm between those who have benefited from the system for decades and those who just got a little taste over the last six years.
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Robert Kaplan on Burma and American war-fighters
But violent invasion is not the only way to achieve that peace and democracy we all love. WE the people of Burma have suffered enough. Engagement and talks among all the parties involved is the best and only way forward to solve the complex Burma problem.
Nation, religion and monarchy in the fight against Thaksin
Ukrist presents some important points though muchof this already known to many readers. However, there is a postscript that needs to be added for a fairer hearing. Political scientists have been slack on probbing for truths.
A year or so back the junta had requested that Sodhi L. ask Luang Ta Maha Bua for access to the Reserve Funds. This was refused. Sondhi never again returned. Luang Ta may have ben set up in the proceeding two years by Sondhi and his friends who attempted to get close to the revered monk and continue to mis-inform him of political and economic realities. These funds were established with the economic recovery of the nation post-2007 under Thaksin’s management- a fact which critics do not acknowledge. A year after the 2006 coup the coup-makers and friends squandered massive amount of the nation’s wealth for nice fascist toys and an impressive and extensive propaganda campaign to discredit Thaksin (seemingly effective even today). They used the Sangha as only one means to achieve this rift. Leaked sources indicate that Thaksin’s billions have been used by these same people taken out of his domestic bank accouts (at the time frozen) so Thaksin had to be found guilty at any cost- even changing the law and emplacing judiciary that were anti-Thaksin and pro-Democrat (who were in alliance with the military for their own ambitions). Thaksin therefore has to be found guilty and he must be imprisoned. The outcome has already been determined way back. The 2006 Constitution reflects the desparation of these folk to protect their illegal acts. The real puppet Master is not Thaksin (re-Andrew Walker) but Prem. That is another story and too long to relay here. The coup-makers and friends cannot be touched as long as the 2006 Constitution is not changed. Hence the desparation by these people not to change the Constitution. As it stands PAD are now proposing 70-30 system whereby 70% of lower house are “selected” (by guess who?), while 30% are elected.This is not “democracy” by any stretch of the imagination; neither is the arrogant urban, elite attitude that the peasantry are stupid and don’t know anything. I would argue that they know more about true democracy than PAD. You have all been duped.
Robert Kaplan on Burma and American war-fighters
Jesus Christ, almighty! I thought only we Burmese have that paranoid schizophrenia of accusing every other Burmese of working for Burmese Military Intelligence.
Come on mate. Don’t go for a low blow, fair dinkum. Everyone loves peace and democracy!
Shock! Horror! China dresses non-ethnics as ethnics!
not surprise, lots of Han prostitutes dressed in Dai costumes in Banna!
Shock! Horror! China dresses non-ethnics as ethnics!
Think of it as SYMBOLISM, no one cares whos inside those cloths, except you
Robert Kaplan on Burma and American war-fighters
Thanks David. You got it just right.
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Ladyboy#15, it is up to people affected to file court cases to the judiciary. I suppose you can too (just use your real name) – as Republican, AjarnSomsak etal could. And PMThaksin is not “out of the way” – he merely flee bail – and that is why I am very disappointed. Having PMThaksin in jail will send chills to all other perpetrators of state abuse – even those opposed to him.
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Bangkok Pundit: “It is the most solid case.” This might very well be the case. What I am asking for is not any opinion on the case, which are plenty. I am asking for a solid legal interpretation for non-lawyers, which does the case justice. Have you seen any (in Thai or English)?
Revisiting the Prem compound clashes
Thanks Nick. As I’ve said, they’ll be little chance of violence if the UDD and its permutations simply avoid PAD rallies. I also hope the governments of the day, in order to encourage broader democracy, open up new neutral forums whether through the medias and organized public events nationwide to air and discuss differences of opinions. This should also serve long term societal reconcilliation and establishment of ground rules, good practices, minimum expectations of politicians etc. for civic society, from local to national
Andrew has also refused my democratic right to reply to your previous #70 comment addressed to me (“PAD – ready for violence”). I wonder if this is a page from Jakrapob (I agree with your comments about him and that his speech was great, but he was the wrong messenger considering that he is clearly under PMThaksin’s patronage. He owes his political existence to the Shinawatras). I will try posting them here as I think it is related to our discussions:
Andrew, I reserve the right to shortly respond to Nick as he has addressed #70 to me.
I will just say, Nick, that you are fearing what will never materialize – even sane participants in PAD’s rallies realize this. At the end of day, PAD are a group of protestors, while TRT/PPP have been running the country for most of the past 8 years. I am stating the obvious here Nick, but there’s a world of difference between protestors SAYING things and governments IMPLEMENTING things…
To your pessimism, I have no choice but to be optimistic. You might be proven right, but as a Thai with most of my family and friends living and working in the country, I hope and believe that you are very wrong…
And to finish this off, a bit of good news for you as the PAD have finally used their weapon see:
р╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Бр╣Бр╕зр╣Йр╕Щр╕Лр╕┤р╣Ир╕З р╕Ир╕вр╕в.р╕Ыр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Щр╕╕р╕б in
http://www.thairath.co.th/news.php?section=politics&content=100558
In the same article, here’s what MajGenChamlong, a protest leader had to say:
р╕Юр╕е.р╕Х.р╕Ир╕│р╕ер╕нр╕З р╕ир╕гр╕╡р╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕З р╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╣Бр╕Бр╕Щр╕Щр╕│р╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕бр╕┤р╕Хр╕гр╕п р╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Щр╕╕р╕бр╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕Зр╕Фр╕│р╕гр╕Зр╕Ир╕╕р╕Фр╕бр╕╕р╣Ир╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Фр╕┤р╕б р╕Др╕╖р╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╕Кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕ер╕▓р╕нр╕нр╕Бр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Др╕Ур╕░ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕▒р╕Фр╕Др╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕Бр╣Йр╣Др╕Вр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕Щр╕╣р╕Н р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕ер╕╡р╣Йр╕ар╕▒р╕вр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕лр╕Щр╕╡р╕Др╕Фр╕╡р╕Вр╕нр╕З р╕Ю.р╕Х.р╕Ч.р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕┤р╕У р╕Кр╕┤р╕Щр╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕г р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕ар╕гр╕гр╕вр╕▓ р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Гр╕Кр╣Ир╕Ир╕╕р╕Фр╕бр╕╕р╣Ир╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕бр╕┤р╕Хр╕гр╕п р╣Бр╕ер╕░ р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╕Ьр╕ер╕Чр╕│р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Щр╕╕р╕бр╕вр╕╕р╕Хр╕┤р╕ер╕Зр╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕Шр╕бр╕┤р╕Хр╕гр╕пр╕Др╕Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Др╕Ыр╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Бр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕Фр╕Фр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Чр╕╣р╕Хр╕нр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕др╕йр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╣Ир╕Зр╕Хр╕▒р╕з р╕Ю.р╕Х.р╕Ч. р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕┤р╕Ур╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕бр╕▓
Yesterday a 70:30 undemocratic formula, today “against change to the constitution”, what of tomorrow? And SO WHAT? But, IN CONTRAST, a government can continue its War on Drugs policy, or its eye for an eye policies in the South, or change the National Parks law to allow further exploitation by big businesses… It can choose to be more engaging, at least with the people’s representatives in parliament (even better, practice more transparent participatory politics), before issuing directives. Lets also look where the ball is going and not just at the coach shouting protests at the referee…
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
“…he was really just part of the same old problem.”
The conflict could very well enter round two with PAD versus the banned TRT executives trying amend the constitution so they can repeat more “old problems,” namely politics as a competition to stack the government full loyal cronies that will help you extract rents.
For example, the current ICT minister is the protege of Vatana, currently holed up in a Cambodian hotel trying to evade punishment for the ADB financed waste treatment project he used as a wealth generating machine. Supposedly, the ICT minister stacked the ministry with loyal family members:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/140808_News/14Aug2008_news95.php
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Aha Fonzi my worthy adversary still ranting about the hypocrisy of the righteous Thais who are now (belatedly?) singling Thaksin for the carnage during anti-drugs and the South flare-up. Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit both at least cannot be faulted for their consistency about the inconsistencies, they believe, of Thai justice in the case of one Thaksin Shinawatra.
Plenty of time, Fonzi says, the junta appointed PM Surayud had enough of to put the stakes on that blood thirsty extra-injudicious Thaksin. Now Fonzi you must be ranting… Unless you were suggesting PM Surayud at that time to employ mass arrests and coercive methods to get confessions and other rushed evidence against Thaksin on the extra-judicials. (Not to mention of course other national priorities at those precarious immediate post-coup times?)
But of course Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit both believe Thai justice should ‘consistently’ be pursued in the order of bottoms up to the ladder and sequentially, before Thaksin Shinawatra should be tried.
Meaning every police death squad shooters by rank first, before Thaksin and all past government leaders still living directly or indirectly responsible for any previous extra-judicials, before Thaksin. (That is fairy tale justice, fair and consistent, that would satisfy Fonzi and Bangkok Pundit).
But I could really be stricken by a heart attack or stroke if Thailand somehow sometime get the courage to formally/judicially try Thaksin and/or any his police death squad cohorts for the anti-drugs killing madness during Thaksin’s rule.
My faint heart can take only so much . . .
Robert Kaplan on Burma and American war-fighters
Dear Hla Oo,
Do you work for Burmese Military Intelligence? The slant you are taking on this matter would appear to lead many people to this conclusion. You words echo the very same message at the junta generals use in order for them to remain in power, that is foreign stooges are trying to take over Burma. Your subtleties are certainly not missed by this reader.
The US certainly did not back U Nu in his attempts to restore democracy in Burma. The CIA supplied funds in order to block the spread of the Burmese Communist Party (BCP). This was backed by Thailand and Bo Mya and the KNLA/KNU who prevented BCP cadre and units from moving south along the border through Karen held territory. So yes, there certainly was US money involved, but not in the manner you have presented here.
It certainly wasn’t the people’s milita who stopped U Nu moving into the delta region of Burma. The tatmadaw had implemented their 4 cuts strategy long before U Nu a small band of U Nu’s men arrived in the delta and their establishment of forts and lookout posts all along this area had already routed much of the KNLA resistance from this region. So again, you are misrepresenting the facts.
Today, I would dare the military junta to arm the militias and the general population to keep the foreign lacky’s from taking over the country. In so doing they would sow the seeds for their own destruction. Only those affiliated with the military support the generals as it is in their own financial and social upward mobility to do so. The general population in the country are enslaved to do the military’s bidding.
Though the generals purport to be the one uniting force in the country they have surpassed their use by date many years ago. However, it is in their own vested interests to continue along this line of reasoning and deny democracy for the masses. For if they were to hand over power to a civilian government they very well know that they will be charged with crimes against humanity and hauled off to the International Court of Justice in the Hague.
The problem they now face is the fact that their own armed forces are going to turn on them directly. No longer are the troops in the field guaranteed of upward social mobility by being in the armed forces. The troops are starving and thus robbing and stealing food from villagers in order for them to survive. Their families no longer get free education, medical treatment nor housing or food supplements. Only the officers get this. Hence the military is set to implode upon itself in the not to distant future.
The generals are masters at playing one side off against the other in order to stay in power. Because of it’s unique geostrategic position, no country is going to make an armed incursion into Burma. Nobody wan’s Chinese naval bases in the Andaman Sea because they then have the ability to block the Malacca Straits and thus starve the Asian region of oil and trade goods. India dislikes China immensely as China does India and as you said, the US is stretched to breaking point. So the general’s are sitting pretty because of this and continuing their enslavement of the people. They do not want peace with the warring ethnic groups because they will no longer have an excuse to stay in power if all armed conflict ends. They would not be able to justify their huge numbers of military personnel Blind Freedy can see this. 500 000 troops to contain 5000 KNLA troops and no perceivable outside military threats? No Hla Oo, the tatmadaw are basically prison wardens containing the civilian population of Burma. Burma is one big open prison. May the long suffering people of this country one day find peace and democracy.
Shrimp slavery?
If you have a shrimp (prawn) meal in any Chinese or Asian restaurant in Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, London, or even LA most of your money are filling the deep pockets of Burmese Generals who are massively exploiting the cheap labor in Burma.
Shrimp processing is the most labor intensive process and no technology is currently available to replace that labor. Most popular processed prawn meat is called P&D meat. It basically means peeled and divined.
To produce that a very young Burmese girl, sometimes just a child, has to stand on her feet 12 hours a day peeling the wet skin and cutting out the small shit line off an individual prawn picked out of a huge pile of caught or farmed prawns. She has to work on so many prawns, at the end of her shift her fingers would be hard dried and senseless that she wouldn’t be able to use them for a while. All that cruel works for as low as just 25 cents a day.
Container loads of prawn meat from Burma are imported by the western democracies every day so that we can eat the yum cha cheaply. All the prawn processing plants in Burma are owned directly by the army as a whole through “Myanmar Economic Holding” or owned individually by the generals as the exporting business of prawn meat is the most lucrative business available in Burma even surpassing the gem trade. Stop eating Burmese prawns, I honestly believe, could hurt Burmese generals more than arming Karens fighting on the border.
So next time you eat a prawn meal in an Asian restaurant think of this post, then curse the Burmese generals and pray for the poor Burmese girls, for they are the ones making it your meal as cheap as possible and thus enjoyable.
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
People love to complain about Thaksin. But Thailand’s problems come down to the law not being applied equally to everybody and is used as a tool to destroy political enemies instead of serving justice and the Thai people.
At the risk of giving you a heart attack, Fonzi, I agree.
However (and sorry to harp on about Thaksin), on this site and others, there has been a lot of barracking for Thaksin as some sort of savior, when he was really just part of the same old problem.
At further risk of heart attacks, Republican, Somsak J & others might be surprised to know that I do have sympathy for their cause, however IMO continuing to support Thaksin after he had shown his true colors did not help and, if anything, has setback their cause.
And no, I don’t think they were/are in his pay – I just think they are desperate after all these years.
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
So of my detractors might have a heart attack, but I think Thaksin crying about not receiving justice is pretty pathetic, especially when I think he did use those same instruments of power to protect himself and his cronies while he was in power.
However, those detractors who might have had a heart attack from what I just wrote seem a little hypocritical to me.
What is up with all the rants about Thaksin’s so-called extrajudicial killings during the “War on Drugs” and his policies in the South?
The Surayud regime had plenty of time to investigate and bring to justice all those police officers, generals, and bureaucrats that supposedly supported Thaksin during his murderous rampages and actually pulled the triggers and earned the profits from that mayhem and death, yet nothing was done at all. Kraisak Choonhavan set up a special committee during the Surayud era to find the perpetrators responsible for the murders during the “War on Drugs.” How many were prosecuted?
Thaksin was not an island all unto himself who was personally killing people. Others were involved. They are still living freely in Thailand as we speak. They are not in exile hiding from the law. And nobody seems to be complaining about them.
People love to complain about Thaksin. But Thailand’s problems come down to the law not being applied equally to everybody and is used as a tool to destroy political enemies instead of serving justice and the Thai people.
The Economist on politics in Thailand
The obituary for Thaksin’s political life today in the Bangkok Post by Thaksin’s former spokesperson was more insightful than this Economist article, the article stresses how radical change gave birth to enemies in many quarters and conflict, not unlike Mikheil Saakashvili in Georgia:
LET IT BE
For Thaksin, it is the end of the road
SURANAND VEJJAJIVA
…The TRT won the 2001 election handily…The TRT won again in the 2005 election…
Throughout, the public was willing to overlook the small “honest mistake” Mr Thaksin made in his assets declaration and the unusual share transfers…
He survived the ordeal in 2001 by a hair margin, but the storm continued to gather…
As his power grew, he became over-confident. Already collecting a fair share of enemies as he introduced radical changes in the bureaucracy, he further upset the status quo by antagonising many other interest groups, including the old establishment and the intellectuals, which were actually his early supporters….
The 2006 coup ended it all… leading to various pending cases in the courts and the NCCC.
In hindsight, it also was Mr Thaksin’s own ethical dilemma that became his undoing. Although he started his political path with creative ideas and supposedly good intentions, he could never entirely separate his public life from that of his business.
[The article on Thai telecoms in Pasuk and Baker’s Thai Capital gives all the details]
His shareholdings and financial dealings tangled with him throughout his political career….
But as the financing of his businesses was perceived as being indistinct from the financing of political ambitions, and as the power of government seemed to benefit selected businesses, that trust was lost.
I sincerely hope that history will be kinder to Mr Thaksin and give due credit to his accomplishments while, of course, apprehending his failure to recognise the complex moral issues that led him to the end of the political road….
http://www.bangkokpost.com/150808_News/15Aug2008_news27.php
[Hopefully, this obituary is for real and its the end of three years of political conflict.]
Call for Lonely Planet boycott
Shooting the messenger? Why stop at Burma? Why wasn’t there a Lonely Planet Thailand boycott after thousands of citizens lost their lives in the drug wars? And what about Lao PDR, the darling of the international aid agencies? Is the Lao autocratic regime radically different from Burma’s? Or are the Lao simply better at hiding their misdeeds and stifling any dissent? Where is the outcry over the forced relocation by the Lao authorities of thousands of highlanders from their mountain villages to lowland resettlement areas? Tourists, using their Lonely Planet Lao PDR, can visit the displaced Akha, Lahu and Hmong (lining roads in Luang Nam Tha and Bokeo provinces) and see for themselves the government-imposed suffering. Then there is China…and lets not forget the massive human rights abuses being perpetrated by the US military. Sri Lanka is another country with a dubious human rights record, but then again, is it any worse than Indonesia’s ? Admittedly a good case can be made against supporting the Burmese Junta in any way at all, but lets not get selective here with our subjective judgments. To be safe, and fair, boycott all guidebooks! They take the adventure out of travel anyway. And while we are at it, we might as well blacklist any websites that have contributions from individuals who support travel to Burma. The list could also include governments and individuals who donated aid via the Burmese authorities to help the cyclone victims. The $1.6 million the Junta scammed off them in rip-off exchange rates could fund a lot of repression. Sanctions/boycotts/military intervention? Sounds a bit like Iraq. For the sake of the citizens of Burma and other people living under repressive regimes, one would hope that there is a more effective and humanitarian way to bring about change. Any suggestions?
PAD and the Democrats will miss Thaksin
Srithanonchai : Given I am apparently a paid Thaksin hack, I think the court’s interpretation of the law was fair. It is the most solid case.
More on Burmese jade
Nick, some people are so desperate to bash China right now that they will make anything up. Absolutely everything Beijing does is being subjected to the most minute scrutiny by pompous Western journalists in the hope that it will screw up. I think that, especially under such circumstances, anonymous claims like this have to be treated with the scepticism they deserve.
The Economist on politics in Thailand
Those who ignore root causes tend to get lost in the minutia.
It is impossible to even begin to understand what is happening in Thailand without considering the pending royal succession or the chasm between those who have benefited from the system for decades and those who just got a little taste over the last six years.