If it the Thai elite proves again that it does not value democracy, and Thailand plunges into more political turmoil, then the consequence should include international travel and financial sanctions placed on those persons, rather than Thais as a collective, so as to encourage organic dissolution of hereditary elites.
Presumably that would also include non-hereditary elites, such as the PM from 2001 to 2006 who so obviously did not value democracy (or human rights, or ethics for that matter)
I think some of the things to consider vis-a-vis censorship include whether material is constructive or destructive, whether it is good for the public or bad for the public, whether it is likely to become part of a lessening of the human condition more than a betterment thereof.
There’s always those who challenge any kind of censorship by laying recrimination on censors by saying who is censoring the censors, etc.
the central issue is not censorship per se but what people think, say and do in its partial absence, then in its total absence. That is, to have absolute freedom to first think, then say, then do. Obviously chaos would eventually ensue as some people, undoubtedly, are of the opinion that even if it means the end of the universe they should have the right to do what they feel is their right. This is a common sci-fi theme.
Roget’s Thesaurus provides the follow synonyms for censor (n) reviewer, critic, faultfinder, watchdog – VT expurgate, delete, cut, edit, suppress, muzzle, silence. Other words can obviously be included such as condemn, erase, eliminate, control, filter, etc. The range of what censorship is, what it means and why it exists varies considerably, and in reality certainly more toward the site of those who oppress than those who would grant us freedom.
On the other hand, and not to belabor the point, those who advocate total absence of censorship are placing themselves at the extreme supposition where such freedom would not cause needless harm to others – which it obviously would, and does even today. On Skype, for example, I censor my Skypecasts with a written warning not to use the F word or other crass swearing, cussing and insulting others. Anyone violating the censorship rules gets cut off and blocked. This is a microcosm example, but it illustrates a contract relationship among those who want information and those with it, and those who have the facilities and power to allow it to pass, as well as the power to edit, block or alter the information.
The topic is so old and researched that Ph.D.s are awarded in the area and course in university are taught, etc. Censorship has changed over the years in different societies, under different circumstances and under different rules and demands for more open vs. more closed societies.
That New Mandala has a censorship policy I believe is not quite accurate; it is more akin to an editorial policy that includes, as any editorial policy in any publication, the right and power to edit and censor. Not speaking on behalf of the Webmaster, it still seems that a word to the wise was what was intended. Now, who are the wise?
Srithanonchai #15, no need for book-length treatment. The length of your #11 comment should suffice.
There’s no “privileged Thai insight” as there is no network monarchy (on the other hand, there are prejudices and biases – which is what I associate your “clearer understanding of what has been happening” in #20). As karmablues mentioned in comment #19, many individual Thais (of both sides, I add) are worried and angry about issues and events since PMThaksin took the helm in 2001. I understand it is within their democratic rights to come out on the streets to protest without threats of violence. However, it is a crime if you beat up someone because he/she has different believes and I find it ironic here that you raised the issue of “shared views” in #15 without having compassion for PADites beaten at Udon just because they have different views to UDD. Is this emotional confusion on your part Srithanonchai?
There will be no long and drawn-out debate about what you, quite incorrectly, call a “policy of censorship”.
Just to clarify…if you discuss the issues, introduce interesting material, provide for thoughtful debate, write something a bit humorous, have a witty aside, defend a useful argument, or do anything else of value then I can, of course, almost guarantee your contribution will, as soon as possible, be posted to New Mandala. In all other cases — where the material is judged “offensive, irrelevant, overly repetitious or involves personal attack” — then all bets are off.
This is hardly surprising. In fact, it is hardly a new policy at all.
At this stage, the explicit statement alongside “please note” seems the best solution for a rapidly growing website like this. What we hope to avoid is a vapid, pointless site, populated by yes-men (and women), filled with boring rants and even more tiresome choruses of approval. We love the debate and discussion — we just want to make sure that we set a worthwhile standard for the site as a whole.
Here at New Mandala we host lively and interesting discussions every day of the year. And right now, we are working towards making the site even better. With that in mind, we appreciate your interest and contributions.
I’ve never seen anything on Thailand and federalism.. Could this be a progressive system for Thai democracy? Or too much a deviation from the current constitutional bedrock? I would have thought federalism particularly applicable to your notions of the rural constitution… A quick Google search gives few instances of this being discussed… back to lunch…
Thank you Observer #543. Your comment is very much to the point. Thaksin can never win in a Thai court. It would be best for him to reside outside Thailand for the time being.
I am rather intrigued by the new NM policy of censorship. Since the policy is stated in very broad terms it would be useful to have a better idea of what is allowed and what is no longer allowed.
So could you please advise whether the following comments which I had previously posted in NM, would be subject to censorship or editing under the new regime:
1. ok, so the Article is once again very “academically” (ie. here in NM means pro-Thaksin propoganda) written
2. Just a few comments to gets things going (strange the “neutral” bloggers here don’t seem to think the tax case is big news… hmmm, anyways…)
3. Here, the line seems to be: “NM belongs to us (academics)! Other people (infantile, dumb, unintelligent, royalist, elitist, proto-facist, nationalists, etc.) should stay out of here!”
4. Not wanting to reveal oneself as a Thaksinite, is a case of well placed shame, I would say. But never mind, since you are not one anyways especially since Thaksin represents the “dark side” of the folk tale srinthanochai character, whereas you have attested to liking the “lighter side” version, yes, yes, so definitely you would not see Thaksin as your hero, since he is the “wrong” type of srinthanochai.
Please advise individually on items 1 – 4 above whether those kind of comments would be allowed or not. I think it will help the readers have a better idea of the new policy also.
Having been an expat in laos for several years and living in close proximity to a vietnamese dog farm where dogs were unfortunatley beaten to death for adrenal production, coming to terms with this method has been extremely hard.
Many friends, both expat and lao have had their dogs stolen and we all knew what happened to them and knowing that your pet and companion ended their lives this way is very traumatic.
While some people in some cultures treat animals this way, it is not ALL asian cultures, and indeed, not ALL Vietnamese or Chinese or Korean’s etc. Additionally, not all people who eat cat or dog treat these animals with cruelty and slaughter their animals as efficiently and painlessly as possible.
Around the world different cultures view the same animals as pets or a source of food and while eating Fluffy the cat, or Bruno the dog is distasteful to some, they are an essential food source for many people facing severe food security issues.
Education against cruelty to animals is a very much underfunded but much needed area, particularly within developing nations. The introduction and enforcement of laws preventing this cruelty is a world wide issue.
I would ask this. Is cruelty to animals worse when it is carried out as part of an ingrained cultural belief, taught from birth, where people do not perceive the action as cruel or illegal… Or when it occurs in a society where laws exist to prevent cruelty to animals but where industry regulations allow the inhumane treatment of battery hens, labratory animals, the trapping, poisoning and hunting of animals, pig pens and farrowing crates where pregnant pigs must lie on cold hard concrete floors…
Have a look at what we do to our own mass produced food sources and I think you’d also be turned off your food.
Skype invitation:
I am going to reopen a skypecast on the LM subject today, Thai time around 21:00 hrs. (7 pm)
Anyone who wishes to join please go to Skype On Now to find the Skypecast. go to On Now or Lese Majeste in Thailand. You should be able to get in right away.
Just an idea in case anyone wants to literally discuss the issue…and is brave enough…
Frank
No, nothing to do with you…it is just a general (and gentle) reminder. And it is merely a reflection of the appoach we are taking to the large volume of comments that New Mandala receives. With countless different voices finding a forum on the site each week it makes sense to clarify our comments policy.
As any regular reader would already know — we emphasise robust debate and conversation. We also want the focus to remain on the issues of the day, and not to be sidetracked to the point of distraction.
Webmaster:
I wonder if this item on editing et. al relates to my last comments or is a general reminder to all or is a CYA-type thing just to make sure bases are covered…
No offense, just wondering.
To the general readership, I am not an advocate of censorship-free publication or speech. Everyone should use discretion and steer clear of things that are going to drag others down – for example, posting child or other types of pornography on line – but I am also against censorship in general by regimes who are bound by law, ethics, morality etc. to permit free speech. Sometimes one man’s meat is another man’s poison. The ACLU, for example, advocates many unpopular causes that seem to go against the flow of traditional values, often mine. But I think the editing/rejecting of offensive, etc., material might not be a bad note to include because it reminds people on the one hand and is a statement of intent on the other.
Thanks.
FGA
Should Samak and his new cabinet tough it out and wait until and election is due?
Yes
Should there be a new election? Now? In the near future?
Not until the next election is due
Should Samak resign and a new PPP/coalition representative take his place?
Up to the PPP to decide
Should the Democrats be given a chance to form a government?
Only if the PPP coalition collapses
Should a “government of national unity” be formed?
Only if the PPP coalition collapses
Should there be another coup?
Yes, immediately (and I vote for green ribbons on tanks this time)
What?
The constitution amendment process should be a consultative process with all sectors having input, and a referendum on any contentious provisions.
PAD should go home, and only come out if the government is taking self serving actions such as selective amendments to benefit themselves & their backers, or interferring in court cases etc
Just a quick comment to start the ball rolling – got to get back to work now 🙂
Opossums, cattle, pigs, monkeys, cats, dogs, guinea pigs, snakes, rats, baboons, alligators, sharks – eaten all over the world by different people and cultures.
Really, the only way to eat cat is to grill it real good, then smother it in tabasco sauce. And be really, really hungry.
Rat on a stick actually isn’t too bad. I believe there’s a youtube video of it being prepared and eaten in Viet Nam.
Babboon is rubbery tasting.
I think he recalled wrongly the sadat’s funeral instead of Nasser’s funeral. What Dr Aung Gyi said must be about Nasser’s funeral. Many Egyptians were killed on Nasser’s funeral day in 1970.
Maybe you are predominantly asking for Thai responses. Nevertheless, I think the political process should be managed however Thais believe it should be. But I believe that the process should be managed in a way that reflects the value of democracy as the most important factor in Thai leadership, and so all of the points you list under the first one, that Samak should tough it out (which reflects my opinion), should be determined by his government and the opposition in a public house.
A new election should be determined by Samak and his government if he or they feel it necessary. Should Samak resign, there should be someone from PPP to replace him till the next election cycle. If PPP loses too many seats, then those seats should have bi-elections in order to potentially determine new governance. The Democrats should be given a chance to form government at the next election cycle. A government of national unity should only be formed if the National Assembly is evenly split through bi-elections, which is unlikely — and even that it is a possibility reflects poorly on the Thai legislative system. What is really required is that democracy is stable and regular so people can feel it is foundational and not determined on whims. This way, the Thai legislative system can be gradually improved to iron out the possibility of instances like this happening again. This should be the message from those in power, rather than the petty cat fights we now see.
Therefore, a concrete suggestion on how this chaos should be managed would be for someone that both sides respect to emphasize that elections are not permanent and so all of these issues can be resolved in only 4 (3) years time. Maybe someone has said something to this effect, but I haven’t read it anywhere?
If it the Thai elite proves again that it does not value democracy, and Thailand plunges into more political turmoil, then the consequence should include international travel and financial sanctions placed on those persons, rather than Thais as a collective, so as to encourage organic dissolution of hereditary elites. I don’t know how that would be implemented, just thats how it ‘should’ be managed.
[…] a month ago I light heartedly asked for suggestions on how governments in Thailand should be chosen.┬ Given that ┬ some commentators are disillusioned […]
In the afternoon of that day (U Thant’s funeral procession day), the most striking memory ever in my RIT days left a deep stamp in my heart… Saya asked an off-subject question to us with a faint smile on his face. “Guys. Have you ever heard about the funeral event of late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat who was tragically assessinated?”
U Thant’s funeral uprising: 1974
Anwar Sadat’s assasination: October 6th, 1981
4 August 2008
I don’t want to be a spoil-sport for those who oppose Thaksin and his methods, but giving too much credit where it is not due may not serve needed reform’s purpose.
The other elites who got together to remove Thaksin were not doing it for altruistic reasons or benevolence to their subjects. Getting him out was the result of a wrestling match between ego and power on the one side, and willpower and loyalties on the other. Thaksin possibly miscalculated, as do most people of such personal aura when they think they can accomplish what Alexander failed to do. Thailand is a bit of microcosm of the planet, and Thaksin might have misjudged how complex things were here (underestimated HM’s influence and willingness of most Thais to continue to live as subjects rather than citizens).
Thaksin was, in short, ousted with a slap on the wrist because he went too far without lip-service to those who have also gone too far in their own ways and who won’t let power out of their hands.
Since lese majeste charges and professions of loyalty to the monarchy seem to work so well under any circumstance, it was not that difficult for groups like Sondhi’s PAD to come up and help organize reactionary resistance to Thaksin’s ‘system.’
None of this makes things right or good, of course. Thais I have spoken with in private, who were willing to open up, have in fact indicated that perhaps a different kind of setup here, with a president instead of the existing parliament, would be good for Thailand.
The PAD, to me, seems both an aberration and innovation. For the first time, a determined group of Thais are banding together to protest against corrupt government. The unfortunate part is that they are using the monarchy as the vanguard. It’s more unfortunate because it is necessary – how else to gain in your position other than to profess royal loyalty?
Thousands of people literally living on the road surface, undergoing searing daytime heat and torrents of rain, listening to things that the Thai political process just won’t allow to occur in general public media, says a lot. That these people are by the vast majority not being paid for what they do is another testament to their behavior and mission.
No, they are far from holy, but they are crusaders. I am for people who stand up and call a spade a spade. But will it get things done, inhibit or accelerate reform? That Thais need to think outside the shell has been evident for a long time. Even the King has said this, although those with the guns and those who order the shooting don’t seem to feel any rushing need to take the hint.
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Lunch?
Tari: I think the answer to your question is that both are equally ignorant and there’s no point arguing who is worse – IMO, they are equally as bad.
A way forward for Thai politics?
If it the Thai elite proves again that it does not value democracy, and Thailand plunges into more political turmoil, then the consequence should include international travel and financial sanctions placed on those persons, rather than Thais as a collective, so as to encourage organic dissolution of hereditary elites.
Presumably that would also include non-hereditary elites, such as the PM from 2001 to 2006 who so obviously did not value democracy (or human rights, or ethics for that matter)
A way forward for Thai politics?
What Collum Graham said.
The king, the courts and the former PM
See Witpedia’s http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/Index
I think some of the things to consider vis-a-vis censorship include whether material is constructive or destructive, whether it is good for the public or bad for the public, whether it is likely to become part of a lessening of the human condition more than a betterment thereof.
There’s always those who challenge any kind of censorship by laying recrimination on censors by saying who is censoring the censors, etc.
the central issue is not censorship per se but what people think, say and do in its partial absence, then in its total absence. That is, to have absolute freedom to first think, then say, then do. Obviously chaos would eventually ensue as some people, undoubtedly, are of the opinion that even if it means the end of the universe they should have the right to do what they feel is their right. This is a common sci-fi theme.
Roget’s Thesaurus provides the follow synonyms for censor (n) reviewer, critic, faultfinder, watchdog – VT expurgate, delete, cut, edit, suppress, muzzle, silence. Other words can obviously be included such as condemn, erase, eliminate, control, filter, etc. The range of what censorship is, what it means and why it exists varies considerably, and in reality certainly more toward the site of those who oppress than those who would grant us freedom.
On the other hand, and not to belabor the point, those who advocate total absence of censorship are placing themselves at the extreme supposition where such freedom would not cause needless harm to others – which it obviously would, and does even today. On Skype, for example, I censor my Skypecasts with a written warning not to use the F word or other crass swearing, cussing and insulting others. Anyone violating the censorship rules gets cut off and blocked. This is a microcosm example, but it illustrates a contract relationship among those who want information and those with it, and those who have the facilities and power to allow it to pass, as well as the power to edit, block or alter the information.
The topic is so old and researched that Ph.D.s are awarded in the area and course in university are taught, etc. Censorship has changed over the years in different societies, under different circumstances and under different rules and demands for more open vs. more closed societies.
That New Mandala has a censorship policy I believe is not quite accurate; it is more akin to an editorial policy that includes, as any editorial policy in any publication, the right and power to edit and censor. Not speaking on behalf of the Webmaster, it still seems that a word to the wise was what was intended. Now, who are the wise?
PAD – ready for violence
Srithanonchai #15, no need for book-length treatment. The length of your #11 comment should suffice.
There’s no “privileged Thai insight” as there is no network monarchy (on the other hand, there are prejudices and biases – which is what I associate your “clearer understanding of what has been happening” in #20). As karmablues mentioned in comment #19, many individual Thais (of both sides, I add) are worried and angry about issues and events since PMThaksin took the helm in 2001. I understand it is within their democratic rights to come out on the streets to protest without threats of violence. However, it is a crime if you beat up someone because he/she has different believes and I find it ironic here that you raised the issue of “shared views” in #15 without having compassion for PADites beaten at Udon just because they have different views to UDD. Is this emotional confusion on your part Srithanonchai?
The king, the courts and the former PM
Thanks Karmablues,
There will be no long and drawn-out debate about what you, quite incorrectly, call a “policy of censorship”.
Just to clarify…if you discuss the issues, introduce interesting material, provide for thoughtful debate, write something a bit humorous, have a witty aside, defend a useful argument, or do anything else of value then I can, of course, almost guarantee your contribution will, as soon as possible, be posted to New Mandala. In all other cases — where the material is judged “offensive, irrelevant, overly repetitious or involves personal attack” — then all bets are off.
This is hardly surprising. In fact, it is hardly a new policy at all.
At this stage, the explicit statement alongside “please note” seems the best solution for a rapidly growing website like this. What we hope to avoid is a vapid, pointless site, populated by yes-men (and women), filled with boring rants and even more tiresome choruses of approval. We love the debate and discussion — we just want to make sure that we set a worthwhile standard for the site as a whole.
Here at New Mandala we host lively and interesting discussions every day of the year. And right now, we are working towards making the site even better. With that in mind, we appreciate your interest and contributions.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
A way forward for Thai politics?
I’ve never seen anything on Thailand and federalism.. Could this be a progressive system for Thai democracy? Or too much a deviation from the current constitutional bedrock? I would have thought federalism particularly applicable to your notions of the rural constitution… A quick Google search gives few instances of this being discussed… back to lunch…
The king, the courts and the former PM
Thank you Observer #543. Your comment is very much to the point. Thaksin can never win in a Thai court. It would be best for him to reside outside Thailand for the time being.
The king, the courts and the former PM
Re #21:
Webmaster:
I am rather intrigued by the new NM policy of censorship. Since the policy is stated in very broad terms it would be useful to have a better idea of what is allowed and what is no longer allowed.
So could you please advise whether the following comments which I had previously posted in NM, would be subject to censorship or editing under the new regime:
1. ok, so the Article is once again very “academically” (ie. here in NM means pro-Thaksin propoganda) written
2. Just a few comments to gets things going (strange the “neutral” bloggers here don’t seem to think the tax case is big news… hmmm, anyways…)
3. Here, the line seems to be: “NM belongs to us (academics)! Other people (infantile, dumb, unintelligent, royalist, elitist, proto-facist, nationalists, etc.) should stay out of here!”
4. Not wanting to reveal oneself as a Thaksinite, is a case of well placed shame, I would say. But never mind, since you are not one anyways especially since Thaksin represents the “dark side” of the folk tale srinthanochai character, whereas you have attested to liking the “lighter side” version, yes, yes, so definitely you would not see Thaksin as your hero, since he is the “wrong” type of srinthanochai.
Please advise individually on items 1 – 4 above whether those kind of comments would be allowed or not. I think it will help the readers have a better idea of the new policy also.
Lunch?
Having been an expat in laos for several years and living in close proximity to a vietnamese dog farm where dogs were unfortunatley beaten to death for adrenal production, coming to terms with this method has been extremely hard.
Many friends, both expat and lao have had their dogs stolen and we all knew what happened to them and knowing that your pet and companion ended their lives this way is very traumatic.
While some people in some cultures treat animals this way, it is not ALL asian cultures, and indeed, not ALL Vietnamese or Chinese or Korean’s etc. Additionally, not all people who eat cat or dog treat these animals with cruelty and slaughter their animals as efficiently and painlessly as possible.
Around the world different cultures view the same animals as pets or a source of food and while eating Fluffy the cat, or Bruno the dog is distasteful to some, they are an essential food source for many people facing severe food security issues.
Education against cruelty to animals is a very much underfunded but much needed area, particularly within developing nations. The introduction and enforcement of laws preventing this cruelty is a world wide issue.
I would ask this. Is cruelty to animals worse when it is carried out as part of an ingrained cultural belief, taught from birth, where people do not perceive the action as cruel or illegal… Or when it occurs in a society where laws exist to prevent cruelty to animals but where industry regulations allow the inhumane treatment of battery hens, labratory animals, the trapping, poisoning and hunting of animals, pig pens and farrowing crates where pregnant pigs must lie on cold hard concrete floors…
Have a look at what we do to our own mass produced food sources and I think you’d also be turned off your food.
The king, the courts and the former PM
Skype invitation:
I am going to reopen a skypecast on the LM subject today, Thai time around 21:00 hrs. (7 pm)
Anyone who wishes to join please go to Skype On Now to find the Skypecast. go to On Now or Lese Majeste in Thailand. You should be able to get in right away.
Just an idea in case anyone wants to literally discuss the issue…and is brave enough…
Frank
The king, the courts and the former PM
Frank,
No, nothing to do with you…it is just a general (and gentle) reminder. And it is merely a reflection of the appoach we are taking to the large volume of comments that New Mandala receives. With countless different voices finding a forum on the site each week it makes sense to clarify our comments policy.
As any regular reader would already know — we emphasise robust debate and conversation. We also want the focus to remain on the issues of the day, and not to be sidetracked to the point of distraction.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
The king, the courts and the former PM
Webmaster:
I wonder if this item on editing et. al relates to my last comments or is a general reminder to all or is a CYA-type thing just to make sure bases are covered…
No offense, just wondering.
To the general readership, I am not an advocate of censorship-free publication or speech. Everyone should use discretion and steer clear of things that are going to drag others down – for example, posting child or other types of pornography on line – but I am also against censorship in general by regimes who are bound by law, ethics, morality etc. to permit free speech. Sometimes one man’s meat is another man’s poison. The ACLU, for example, advocates many unpopular causes that seem to go against the flow of traditional values, often mine. But I think the editing/rejecting of offensive, etc., material might not be a bad note to include because it reminds people on the one hand and is a statement of intent on the other.
Thanks.
FGA
A way forward for Thai politics?
Should Samak and his new cabinet tough it out and wait until and election is due?
Yes
Should there be a new election? Now? In the near future?
Not until the next election is due
Should Samak resign and a new PPP/coalition representative take his place?
Up to the PPP to decide
Should the Democrats be given a chance to form a government?
Only if the PPP coalition collapses
Should a “government of national unity” be formed?
Only if the PPP coalition collapses
Should there be another coup?
Yes, immediately (and I vote for green ribbons on tanks this time)
What?
The constitution amendment process should be a consultative process with all sectors having input, and a referendum on any contentious provisions.
PAD should go home, and only come out if the government is taking self serving actions such as selective amendments to benefit themselves & their backers, or interferring in court cases etc
Just a quick comment to start the ball rolling – got to get back to work now 🙂
Lunch?
Opossums, cattle, pigs, monkeys, cats, dogs, guinea pigs, snakes, rats, baboons, alligators, sharks – eaten all over the world by different people and cultures.
Really, the only way to eat cat is to grill it real good, then smother it in tabasco sauce. And be really, really hungry.
Rat on a stick actually isn’t too bad. I believe there’s a youtube video of it being prepared and eaten in Viet Nam.
Babboon is rubbery tasting.
Bon appetit!!!
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
I think he recalled wrongly the sadat’s funeral instead of Nasser’s funeral. What Dr Aung Gyi said must be about Nasser’s funeral. Many Egyptians were killed on Nasser’s funeral day in 1970.
A way forward for Thai politics?
Maybe you are predominantly asking for Thai responses. Nevertheless, I think the political process should be managed however Thais believe it should be. But I believe that the process should be managed in a way that reflects the value of democracy as the most important factor in Thai leadership, and so all of the points you list under the first one, that Samak should tough it out (which reflects my opinion), should be determined by his government and the opposition in a public house.
A new election should be determined by Samak and his government if he or they feel it necessary. Should Samak resign, there should be someone from PPP to replace him till the next election cycle. If PPP loses too many seats, then those seats should have bi-elections in order to potentially determine new governance. The Democrats should be given a chance to form government at the next election cycle. A government of national unity should only be formed if the National Assembly is evenly split through bi-elections, which is unlikely — and even that it is a possibility reflects poorly on the Thai legislative system. What is really required is that democracy is stable and regular so people can feel it is foundational and not determined on whims. This way, the Thai legislative system can be gradually improved to iron out the possibility of instances like this happening again. This should be the message from those in power, rather than the petty cat fights we now see.
Therefore, a concrete suggestion on how this chaos should be managed would be for someone that both sides respect to emphasize that elections are not permanent and so all of these issues can be resolved in only 4 (3) years time. Maybe someone has said something to this effect, but I haven’t read it anywhere?
If it the Thai elite proves again that it does not value democracy, and Thailand plunges into more political turmoil, then the consequence should include international travel and financial sanctions placed on those persons, rather than Thais as a collective, so as to encourage organic dissolution of hereditary elites. I don’t know how that would be implemented, just thats how it ‘should’ be managed.
Your chance to shape Thailand’s political future
[…] a month ago I light heartedly asked for suggestions on how governments in Thailand should be chosen.┬ Given that ┬ some commentators are disillusioned […]
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
U Thant’s funeral uprising: 1974
Anwar Sadat’s assasination: October 6th, 1981
The king, the courts and the former PM
4 August 2008
I don’t want to be a spoil-sport for those who oppose Thaksin and his methods, but giving too much credit where it is not due may not serve needed reform’s purpose.
The other elites who got together to remove Thaksin were not doing it for altruistic reasons or benevolence to their subjects. Getting him out was the result of a wrestling match between ego and power on the one side, and willpower and loyalties on the other. Thaksin possibly miscalculated, as do most people of such personal aura when they think they can accomplish what Alexander failed to do. Thailand is a bit of microcosm of the planet, and Thaksin might have misjudged how complex things were here (underestimated HM’s influence and willingness of most Thais to continue to live as subjects rather than citizens).
Thaksin was, in short, ousted with a slap on the wrist because he went too far without lip-service to those who have also gone too far in their own ways and who won’t let power out of their hands.
Since lese majeste charges and professions of loyalty to the monarchy seem to work so well under any circumstance, it was not that difficult for groups like Sondhi’s PAD to come up and help organize reactionary resistance to Thaksin’s ‘system.’
None of this makes things right or good, of course. Thais I have spoken with in private, who were willing to open up, have in fact indicated that perhaps a different kind of setup here, with a president instead of the existing parliament, would be good for Thailand.
The PAD, to me, seems both an aberration and innovation. For the first time, a determined group of Thais are banding together to protest against corrupt government. The unfortunate part is that they are using the monarchy as the vanguard. It’s more unfortunate because it is necessary – how else to gain in your position other than to profess royal loyalty?
Thousands of people literally living on the road surface, undergoing searing daytime heat and torrents of rain, listening to things that the Thai political process just won’t allow to occur in general public media, says a lot. That these people are by the vast majority not being paid for what they do is another testament to their behavior and mission.
No, they are far from holy, but they are crusaders. I am for people who stand up and call a spade a spade. But will it get things done, inhibit or accelerate reform? That Thais need to think outside the shell has been evident for a long time. Even the King has said this, although those with the guns and those who order the shooting don’t seem to feel any rushing need to take the hint.