By the way, I have graduated in 1980 from RIT and even worked as a tutor in Mechanical Engineering Department for a year in 1981. You can easily check it in the RIT graduates database openly available right on the internet. Please don’t threaten me with a violent tone. It made my blood boil because of my PTSD.
Yes, your are absolutely right. After passing my matriculation I attended the RIT in late 1972, just for a month. Believe it or not, I ran away from home and joined the army as a private, but deserted the army in early 1974, and rejoined the RIT in late 1974.
Read my posts carefully, as I hide nothing about me. You don’t need to threaten me by using such a dreadful alias like “RIT student of Seventies”. why don’t you come out and debate like a man like the rest of us here. Not under a funny pseudonym. I think you sounded like a man. Were you really there at the old turf club’s ground as you bravely claimed.
I have written a book called “A Boy Soldier” based on my over a year stint in Burmese Army. As a result I couldn’t go back to Burma, for your dear General Than Shwe and his generals would hang me by neck till death, let alone letting me do business with them.
(Here is one of the moving emails I’ve received from my fellow graduates from RIT forum after I posted my original essay there. I have to ask his forgiveness for posting his email here without a permission, even though I cut out his name and his personal particulars. I should stop responding this post after this. I’ve been receiving serious threats from all sides of Burma’s political spectrum, and the violent responses scared me, ha ha, just kidding. No wonder our little country has been in shit for so long! But, I am glad I’ve recalled and restarted the debate on this sad episode of our violent history.)
Dear Ko Hla Oo,
I was deeply touched and moved by your superbly organized short essay on our late 70s days in mother RIT. Kindly allow me to save your essay in my personal archive.
Well, as I was reading along your essay, my dislocated memoreis popped up again in my eyes as if I was watching a blurred film movie.
I was then a third year civil student, boarding at Poppa Hall.
In the afternoon of that day (U Thant’s funeral procession day), the most striking memory ever in my RIT days left a deep stamp in my heart. That was a very remarkable and short, but very descriptive, comment made by our ever respectable ex-Rector Dr. Aung Gyi. We were, just like other fellows, seriously attending a session of class (CE-301) lectured by Saya himself in the morning of that day.
Amidst his long lecture on the subject, he all of a sudden pasued and whispered to us ,with a trace of humor in his tone as he’d always been. It seemd to us he was very much aware of what would happen and to which exetent it would develop on that day. Honestly, I was not that much convinced of what would really take place rather than was a bit eager to join other fellows to attend the funeral procession.
Saya asked an off-subject question to us with a faint smile on his face.
“Guys. Have you ever heard about the funeral event of late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat who was tragically assessinated?”
Some answered “Yes”, some “No”, some silent. I was in the third group. But, at that moment, I recalled nobody had a clue what Saya was trying to drive us at.
Then, Saya continued. “OK. I’ll share the story with you. On Sadat’s funeral day in Cairo, there were thousands and thousands of mourners took part in the procession to the graveyard. They were so much eager to pay their last tribute to the fallen hero. In fact, they were on a mission to send a single dead body to the graveyard. But, you know, just after burying the body of ONE dead person, they ended up with leaving hundreds of another dead ones in the graveyard at the end of Sadats’ funeral rites followed by clashes amongst the mourners for their different grievances. Hmmmmmm……. huge crowd, riots, mob action,.. those could lead to another unexpected deadly scenario.”
Saya then deeply sighed. The whole class went eerily silent.
“Alright, guys. Be thoughtful and watch your steps if you have planned to do something special today.”
Saya, with a weary face, quietly left the theatre at the end of his last words for the day.
I could never forget that moment whenever I recall our good old days under the canopy of our mother RIT.
All other chain events you described in your essay were truely witnessed by myself, too. Not very suprisingly, I found out that most of your experiences were almost identical with mine.
To mention a few, I was carrying a wreath together with a student colleague from Workers’ College, among others, all along the road from Kyaikkasan ground to RASU campus. Funnily, I almost choked to death at the entrance of main gate where waves of students and on-lookers rolled into the campus joining the procession. Just after entering the gate, someone from behind me accidently stepped on one of my slippers. By instant reflexion, I frantically attempetd to get hold of my slipper in the rapidly moving stream of crowd. As a result, I lost control of myself and fell down on the pavement whereby I sudden sensed the massive weights of tens of hundreds of fellow commerades who unavoidably had to walk across all over my body. I was in semi-consious state when someone spotted me and rescued by dragging me out of the crowd. Phewwww…. I was just lucky!
I joined the sudent’s committee in the following days. I was assigned to Marlar Hall entrance check point while you were at the main gate.
The last day’s scene must have been very shocking as you mentioned. Just like you, I wasn’t in the campus anymore when that brutal crash down took place. On that day, I was leaving Rangoon for my home town by air. It was at dawn around 4:00am when BAC bus passed the RASU campus. I could even see the dimly lit campus behind the halls along the Prome Road when our bus was driving past the campus. That was my last scene on the campus. As I hail from a little town in the south, I was flown back to my home on that day. Airplane was the only reliable means of transport to our place in those days.
Well, Ko Hla Oo…. Thanks you very much for your essay and for sharing it with us.
My intention of writing this little supplimentary note is just to share our memories and feelings.
I do not think the competing capitalist fractions in Thailand today (if that is what they are – the political economy of this is not fully clear, given overlapping interests) are equivalent in the sense that Somsak says I do. There are indeed competing agendas – and in the impasse of current politics each has manifested itself in quite virulent and reactionary ways.
On Somsak’s point that different capitalist elites should be judged according to their politics and trajectories, I agree fully. I believe that the Thai-Rak-Thai government was taking Thai politics on an untravelled authoritarian road peculiar to its own style of leadership, but one that was in conformity with what has been called “competitive authoritarianism”. In 2006 Thailand was a long way from that situation, but the signals were there. Moreover, this road was being approached in a way that side-swiped rival elites (who have an equally authoritarian inclination). They came back onto the road with a tank.
I can not share the idea that somehow Thaksin was representative of a progressive form of democracy and should be given unqualified support in the struggle against his rivals. The coup was wrong, yes. Thaksin should not have been overthrown in that manner, yes. But none of this makes him more than an accidental democrat. Before the coup very few people would have described Thaksin as having a “democratic morality” . Yes he stood for elections. That doesn’t make someone a democrat. In what sense is it democratic to launch a “war on drugs” that leads to significant death, pursue a repressive policy in the South and refuse to punish those involved in the events of 2004 in April and October, not to say anthing of the strangulation of liberal elements of the the 1997 constitution. The answer seems never to move beyond the argument that Thaksin had an electoral mandate. That is the beginning of a conversation on the nature of democracy, it’s not the answer as far as I can see.
In offering seemingly unqualified support to Thaksin, Somsak can only read the court cases against Thaksin as illegitimate. The facts of the case do not concern him. In the most generalised sense he is right of course, without the coup it is hard to imagine these cases proceeding. What is interesting is that the coup group did not rush the cases through the courts while they remained in power. Decisions are being made in the post-coup climate with a pro-Thaksin government in power. All law is political of course, and so is a determination to act according to evidence in cases involving political elites (especially so when such an act is not in conformity with past traditions). I have an open mind on the current cases, but I recognise too (as outlined in my “perverse” article) the irregularities and coup-driven nature of the process. There is of course a solution to this. The current Attorney General of the elected government could review all the cases and determine whether to proceed. This has actually partly happened. I assume Somsak’s solution is for all the cases against Thaksin to be closed down.
This is also the second time that Somsak has compared the current situation to the struggle between parliamentary democracy and fascism. I don’t think the reference describes the situation in Thailand at all.
On another point, I apologise for saying that Somsak supported the massacres in the South; I should have written that he has defended them. I assume he does not support them, though I don’t think he has made a statement to that effect. Apologies, too, if I am wrong on that. However, were he to examine the facts he would see that there is reason to believe that acts of extra-judicial murder were committed. Those acts need to be examined every bit as much as the barbaric acts of October 1976.
This whole post is an example of why New Mandala is great. Not that I can add anything to it, but RIT Student of the Seventies, I’d be really interested to read any stories you wish to let out of the locker.
At the moment the simplest way to swap contact information is via open threads. However we do, from time-to-time, facilitate more private contact between commentators who request it. In the future we may, of course, make changes to this system, and we are always open to suggestions for improvements.
You are very clever person. Very cleverly distorted the event especially what was happening at the Kyaikkasan ground. For your information, I was at the Kyaikasan ground and I was one of the first 10 students arrived near the U Thant coffin. LET ME POINTED OUT .. NOONE WAS KILLED AT THE KYAIKASAN GROUND. PERIOD. ..BLOODBATH? WHAT BLOOD BATH. ARE YOU KIDDING..ARE YOU REALLY THERE AT kYAIKASAN GROUND AT THAT TIME?
Let me pointed out all the WRONG FACTS you wrote..
You wrote “As we were patiently or unknowingly standing by our buses for our turn in line to reach the coffin, ” IT WAS WRONG FACT, WE DIDNOT GO TO kYAIKKASAN GROUND BY BUS. WE WENT TO RASU FROM RIT BY BUS AND THEN FROM RASU, WE MARCHED TO KYAIKKASAN GROUND BY FOOT VIS UNIVERSITY AVENUE, KOKINE ROAD AND GOODLIFF ROAD.
You wrote..”But on that particular day General Ne Win made a serious mistake. He banned the public from the ground and allowed only the 3000 strong students of our RIT and the students from Rangoon Arts and Science University, RASU. So the senior students took the rare opportunity to stage the uprising without even letting us juniors know in advance.”
Wrong again..!!
-Let me pointed out ..the STUDENTS WERE NOT ONLY from RIT and RASU, Also from MC I, Dental, Vet, Eco and Students from Institute of Education were there. Let me ask you which university students carrying the “one for all all for one posters”
– No senior students go around and ordered the junior to go out, it was on the poster on the RIT notice board that mentioned “MA-SA-LA government blocked to hire all the busses to go to Kyaikasan ground..so instead we the students will march to the Kyaikasan ground on foot” becuase of this posters ,everyone got angry and those who are not plan to go to the Kyaikasan in the first hand chnage their mind and decided to march to Kyaikkasan and show the students courage.
you wrote..”That was the first time and only time I saw the famous student leader Tin Maung Oo close-up. He wasn’t even from our RIT, he was from RASU, but he was clever enough to choose us as the spearhead of his carefully-planned uprising. We RIT students are famous for our fighting spirits as almost of all us are boys and young men.”
WRONG AGAIN!
– Tin Maung Oo was not the student leader during U That uprisng. He was the leader of Hmaing Yar Pyi( Thakin Kodaw Hmaing 100yrs anniverassary) and later hanged immediately after arretsed.
-Noone used RIT students as spearhead..there were students from others universities especially RASU and ECO together with RIT students when we rushed to seige the U THANT coffin.
You Wrote. “By the way, Moe Aung, I did pass my matriculation in the academic year 1971-1972 with distinctions in Physics, Chemistry, and Mathematics. My roll number is 21742.”
Really??? You passed matriculation in 1971-72 and how come you can able to join the RIT in 1974 after desetred the army??? At the time Basic education Department was not allowed to do that..if you passed your matric in 1972 you have to join the universities in 1972 september.. otherwise you enrollment is void…(your family must be one of the families who corrupted together with Ne Win and or you have good connection with Col Hla Han who was educatiom minister at that time or major Nyunt Muang who was chief of Basic Education department at that time.
You wrote “They were giving us food, water, and cold drinks as if they could correctly guess that we were almost starving. I even managed to grab a boiled egg or two while I was still carrying U Thant’s heavy coffin.”
-Ha ha ha What a joke!!! when the U thant coffin was carried back to RASU it was not carried by the students on their shoulders.. it was carried on the Lorry…
You managed to grab boiled egg or Two???? how come I didn’t see anyone giving food on that same evening. Only people were donating the next day when student went out and request public for help.(I am one of the students who went out for asking doation for food)
I just want to say..you are a very good “FICTION WRITER BASED ON ACTUAL EVENT AND BENT IT TO SUIT YOUR STORY” LIKE THE MOVIE .. EXODUS BASED ON THE ACTUAL EVENT AND PUT A FICTIONAL CHARATER for a Noval.
I agree what Moe Aung said The more you write..the more it sound like the junta newspaper Myanma Ahlin. Looke like Your family and relative were granted good business in Burma by Than Shwe and Inc. In return you have to write this story to discredit the students involviong in U Thant uprisng acting like you are the one of the students witnessing or confessing the student brutality(as per normal Ne win and associate trick ..try to rewrite the Hisyory).
You dared to crtise NE Win because now Than Shwe is not good term with Ne Win Family(so it is not only please the people who suffered under Ne win but it also please the ThanShwe and Inc.) and you praise the recent generals by saying..”You see, our generals are not stupid at all. They are winning the civil war not just by killing their enemies. My father’s eventual surrender proves that.”
I just want to say this..don’t insult the Students(not only RIT all the universities student at that time) who invloved in U Thant uprising.
May be you and Than shwe might think that ..it is time for all of you to rewrite and distorted the History cleverly(by putting in 30% true facts and 70% lies).. ..fat hope!!! we are still alive and as long as we are still alive you cannot rewrite the History with distorted information.
it is not so difficult to check who is the 1974 RIT section D student with a name Hla Oo.
Re. Message 2:
I am worried about the collateral damage of such a downfall on the one hand, and the many innocent people today and tomorrow being browbeaten by this unjust and unjustly applied law.
3 August 2008
Dear FreeThai:
Please advise me of your email address directly at mine [email protected].
(Site admin – Is there a way to email commentators directly when they write like this, or do they need to be notified on this site as I have just done? Thanks.)
I cannot send the entire manuscript as the book (est. 80,000 words) is still under draft and not all chapters are complete.
I have some dozen lese majeste cases, however, that are being organized into a standard format for presentation in the book tentatively titled One Unlucky Guy, an account of uses and abuses of Thailand’s lese majeste law. 6 October 1976 plays a major role in the book.
Please provide some guidelines about what exactly you are looking for, and I will attempt to accommodate you.
Thanks for your interest.
Best regards,
Frank
Hi Frank,
we are a German language website about Thailand. Could you send us your manuscript about the LM-cases you were analyzing? We would like to use it within a German language article.
I had a question I had neglected to ask earlier – with the king saying he wants to be criticized as long as it is constructive and valid, just who are the courts to say they are above criticism? Is this legal?
It WAS rather clever of those putting the 2007 constitution together to hog-tie the TRT aftermath. That Thaksin’s fate is ordained, one really should only blame him, the master of his fate, the captain of his soul. He wasn’t crying when he told Pojaman how to hide assets, but only when he was discovered.
The Thai courts may lack finesse and refinement, but in general I have found they are reasonably good. The problem is with crooked society that accepts so much crap that gets recognized as truth or unavoidable circumstances.
Respect of the whip is a sad condition in many repressed societies. The lese majeste law, how it is perceived, accepted, reinforced and prolonged is an example.
As to the silence by H.M., in fact he has been silent on most LM cases. The idea of free speech, however, IS a frightening spectre not only to possibly HM et. al but to many Thais who have been hypnotized into thinking that the universe revolves around Bangkok.
HM and the rest of the Thai government have also not said much about that poor Thai noodle shop owner in San Francisco who was ganged up on by a bunch of holier-than-thous living in LA when they heard him say the king should have paid for the cost of the nullified election and not the EC itself. I am not sure whether the good Americans in LA and SF are aware of this infringement against the US constitution. Trying to take Thai LM into the US is a bit too much.
i hate seeing these photos, i am asian myself and i am embarrass wat is going on. As an animal lover myself .i am disguisted with how many people love to see animal tortured just for their own sake. SHAME ON THEM. I have 4 dogs and a rabbit, and i am glad my pets are save and love.
We need to help stop animal cruelty by supporting the RSPCA and WSPCA or any other animal organisation….Toegether we can do so much. HELP STOP CRUELTY!!!!!!
I do love those archives! Trying to figure out when opium had become a significant cash crop for upland peoples in northern mainland Southeast Asia, I found many gems in online archives of newspapers of the day. For instance, colonial authorities in Burma were deeply concerned about the uplanders growing opium as they feared it would cut into their monopolies; so, too, with the Royal Thai government. The Daily News (London) of May 21, 1886, noted the opium trafficking problem in Upper Burma and the government’s plan to suppress that trade (Daily News (London) 1886).
Daily News (London)
1886 The Suppression of the Opium Trade. Daily News (London), 21 May: page 3.
1900 This Morning’s News. Web Archives, http://Www.Uk.Olivesoftware.Com/. Daily News (London), 5 November.
I also found interesting accounts of British attempts to exert sovereignty over the Sino-Burmese border area by serving as peace makers. Part of what’s fun about reading these is that the cultural ideas of the time about the role of the British in world politics and the centrality of the idea of trade and profit as legitimations of British control.
Michael Connors wrote: “Now, in one of those historical reversals that defy general theories of history, it would appear that one of Thailand’s most successful capitalists may well be the sacrificial lamb (innocent or guilty) on the altar of Thailand’s judicialisation of politics and the emergence of a potentially more robust rule of law.” http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1360&Itemid=31
That would include murdered journalists, such as the Matichon journalist below, searching for the truth.
Ironically the evidence can only be hinted at below and will probably will only ever exist as hearsay or gossip between those in the know. Murder once again seems to be an effective way of snuffing out the knowledge necessary for informed decisions by the public, no wonder there is public apathy about “rule of law”:
Matichon reporter shot dead at home
Journalist voiced concern over safety
By Supapong Chaolan
A reporter for Matichon newspaper was shot dead while cooking at his home on Friday in what the Thai Journalists Association (TJA) is calling a blatant attempt to silence the media. Athiwat Chainurat, 48, was alone when a gunman shot him in the head, back and stomach. The attack took place about 9pm…..
”He became extra careful recently due to a conflict with some local politicians over his reports. …
Pol Lt-Gen Thani said police suspected the murder was related to news reports written by the victim, which caused conflicts with a high-ranking government officer in the district…
He assigned his deputy Pol Maj-Gen Santhan Chayanont to handle the case, and added that the investigation had made good progress and a team was collecting evidence.
But a source close to Athiwat disagreed.
He said a high-profile politician who had always been unhappy with Athiwat’s reports might have used the victim’s conflict with the government officer to have him killed and put the blame on the officer.
The TJA said the premeditated murder might be the work of an influential figure who has no fear of the law and the act was a case of serious intimidation against investigative journalists….
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Lunch?
that is disgusting…these animals have feelings…these people to me are next to murderers
just disgusting
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
By the way, I have graduated in 1980 from RIT and even worked as a tutor in Mechanical Engineering Department for a year in 1981. You can easily check it in the RIT graduates database openly available right on the internet. Please don’t threaten me with a violent tone. It made my blood boil because of my PTSD.
Yes, your are absolutely right. After passing my matriculation I attended the RIT in late 1972, just for a month. Believe it or not, I ran away from home and joined the army as a private, but deserted the army in early 1974, and rejoined the RIT in late 1974.
Read my posts carefully, as I hide nothing about me. You don’t need to threaten me by using such a dreadful alias like “RIT student of Seventies”. why don’t you come out and debate like a man like the rest of us here. Not under a funny pseudonym. I think you sounded like a man. Were you really there at the old turf club’s ground as you bravely claimed.
I have written a book called “A Boy Soldier” based on my over a year stint in Burmese Army. As a result I couldn’t go back to Burma, for your dear General Than Shwe and his generals would hang me by neck till death, let alone letting me do business with them.
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
(Here is one of the moving emails I’ve received from my fellow graduates from RIT forum after I posted my original essay there. I have to ask his forgiveness for posting his email here without a permission, even though I cut out his name and his personal particulars. I should stop responding this post after this. I’ve been receiving serious threats from all sides of Burma’s political spectrum, and the violent responses scared me, ha ha, just kidding. No wonder our little country has been in shit for so long! But, I am glad I’ve recalled and restarted the debate on this sad episode of our violent history.)
Dear Ko Hla Oo,
I was deeply touched and moved by your superbly organized short essay on our late 70s days in mother RIT. Kindly allow me to save your essay in my personal archive.
Well, as I was reading along your essay, my dislocated memoreis popped up again in my eyes as if I was watching a blurred film movie.
I was then a third year civil student, boarding at Poppa Hall.
In the afternoon of that day (U Thant’s funeral procession day), the most striking memory ever in my RIT days left a deep stamp in my heart. That was a very remarkable and short, but very descriptive, comment made by our ever respectable ex-Rector Dr. Aung Gyi. We were, just like other fellows, seriously attending a session of class (CE-301) lectured by Saya himself in the morning of that day.
Amidst his long lecture on the subject, he all of a sudden pasued and whispered to us ,with a trace of humor in his tone as he’d always been. It seemd to us he was very much aware of what would happen and to which exetent it would develop on that day. Honestly, I was not that much convinced of what would really take place rather than was a bit eager to join other fellows to attend the funeral procession.
Saya asked an off-subject question to us with a faint smile on his face.
“Guys. Have you ever heard about the funeral event of late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat who was tragically assessinated?”
Some answered “Yes”, some “No”, some silent. I was in the third group. But, at that moment, I recalled nobody had a clue what Saya was trying to drive us at.
Then, Saya continued. “OK. I’ll share the story with you. On Sadat’s funeral day in Cairo, there were thousands and thousands of mourners took part in the procession to the graveyard. They were so much eager to pay their last tribute to the fallen hero. In fact, they were on a mission to send a single dead body to the graveyard. But, you know, just after burying the body of ONE dead person, they ended up with leaving hundreds of another dead ones in the graveyard at the end of Sadats’ funeral rites followed by clashes amongst the mourners for their different grievances. Hmmmmmm……. huge crowd, riots, mob action,.. those could lead to another unexpected deadly scenario.”
Saya then deeply sighed. The whole class went eerily silent.
“Alright, guys. Be thoughtful and watch your steps if you have planned to do something special today.”
Saya, with a weary face, quietly left the theatre at the end of his last words for the day.
I could never forget that moment whenever I recall our good old days under the canopy of our mother RIT.
All other chain events you described in your essay were truely witnessed by myself, too. Not very suprisingly, I found out that most of your experiences were almost identical with mine.
To mention a few, I was carrying a wreath together with a student colleague from Workers’ College, among others, all along the road from Kyaikkasan ground to RASU campus. Funnily, I almost choked to death at the entrance of main gate where waves of students and on-lookers rolled into the campus joining the procession. Just after entering the gate, someone from behind me accidently stepped on one of my slippers. By instant reflexion, I frantically attempetd to get hold of my slipper in the rapidly moving stream of crowd. As a result, I lost control of myself and fell down on the pavement whereby I sudden sensed the massive weights of tens of hundreds of fellow commerades who unavoidably had to walk across all over my body. I was in semi-consious state when someone spotted me and rescued by dragging me out of the crowd. Phewwww…. I was just lucky!
I joined the sudent’s committee in the following days. I was assigned to Marlar Hall entrance check point while you were at the main gate.
The last day’s scene must have been very shocking as you mentioned. Just like you, I wasn’t in the campus anymore when that brutal crash down took place. On that day, I was leaving Rangoon for my home town by air. It was at dawn around 4:00am when BAC bus passed the RASU campus. I could even see the dimly lit campus behind the halls along the Prome Road when our bus was driving past the campus. That was my last scene on the campus. As I hail from a little town in the south, I was flown back to my home on that day. Airplane was the only reliable means of transport to our place in those days.
Well, Ko Hla Oo…. Thanks you very much for your essay and for sharing it with us.
My intention of writing this little supplimentary note is just to share our memories and feelings.
With best regards,
*** ****
Civil (1979)
The king, the courts and the former PM
I do not think the competing capitalist fractions in Thailand today (if that is what they are – the political economy of this is not fully clear, given overlapping interests) are equivalent in the sense that Somsak says I do. There are indeed competing agendas – and in the impasse of current politics each has manifested itself in quite virulent and reactionary ways.
On Somsak’s point that different capitalist elites should be judged according to their politics and trajectories, I agree fully. I believe that the Thai-Rak-Thai government was taking Thai politics on an untravelled authoritarian road peculiar to its own style of leadership, but one that was in conformity with what has been called “competitive authoritarianism”. In 2006 Thailand was a long way from that situation, but the signals were there. Moreover, this road was being approached in a way that side-swiped rival elites (who have an equally authoritarian inclination). They came back onto the road with a tank.
I can not share the idea that somehow Thaksin was representative of a progressive form of democracy and should be given unqualified support in the struggle against his rivals. The coup was wrong, yes. Thaksin should not have been overthrown in that manner, yes. But none of this makes him more than an accidental democrat. Before the coup very few people would have described Thaksin as having a “democratic morality” . Yes he stood for elections. That doesn’t make someone a democrat. In what sense is it democratic to launch a “war on drugs” that leads to significant death, pursue a repressive policy in the South and refuse to punish those involved in the events of 2004 in April and October, not to say anthing of the strangulation of liberal elements of the the 1997 constitution. The answer seems never to move beyond the argument that Thaksin had an electoral mandate. That is the beginning of a conversation on the nature of democracy, it’s not the answer as far as I can see.
In offering seemingly unqualified support to Thaksin, Somsak can only read the court cases against Thaksin as illegitimate. The facts of the case do not concern him. In the most generalised sense he is right of course, without the coup it is hard to imagine these cases proceeding. What is interesting is that the coup group did not rush the cases through the courts while they remained in power. Decisions are being made in the post-coup climate with a pro-Thaksin government in power. All law is political of course, and so is a determination to act according to evidence in cases involving political elites (especially so when such an act is not in conformity with past traditions). I have an open mind on the current cases, but I recognise too (as outlined in my “perverse” article) the irregularities and coup-driven nature of the process. There is of course a solution to this. The current Attorney General of the elected government could review all the cases and determine whether to proceed. This has actually partly happened. I assume Somsak’s solution is for all the cases against Thaksin to be closed down.
This is also the second time that Somsak has compared the current situation to the struggle between parliamentary democracy and fascism. I don’t think the reference describes the situation in Thailand at all.
On another point, I apologise for saying that Somsak supported the massacres in the South; I should have written that he has defended them. I assume he does not support them, though I don’t think he has made a statement to that effect. Apologies, too, if I am wrong on that. However, were he to examine the facts he would see that there is reason to believe that acts of extra-judicial murder were committed. Those acts need to be examined every bit as much as the barbaric acts of October 1976.
Lunch?
Re: Richard, et al.
Yes, how dare people eat different food than we eat!!!
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
This whole post is an example of why New Mandala is great. Not that I can add anything to it, but RIT Student of the Seventies, I’d be really interested to read any stories you wish to let out of the locker.
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
Frank,
At the moment the simplest way to swap contact information is via open threads. However we do, from time-to-time, facilitate more private contact between commentators who request it. In the future we may, of course, make changes to this system, and we are always open to suggestions for improvements.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
Hla Oo,
You are very clever person. Very cleverly distorted the event especially what was happening at the Kyaikkasan ground. For your information, I was at the Kyaikasan ground and I was one of the first 10 students arrived near the U Thant coffin. LET ME POINTED OUT .. NOONE WAS KILLED AT THE KYAIKASAN GROUND. PERIOD. ..BLOODBATH? WHAT BLOOD BATH. ARE YOU KIDDING..ARE YOU REALLY THERE AT kYAIKASAN GROUND AT THAT TIME?
Let me pointed out all the WRONG FACTS you wrote..
You wrote “As we were patiently or unknowingly standing by our buses for our turn in line to reach the coffin, ” IT WAS WRONG FACT, WE DIDNOT GO TO kYAIKKASAN GROUND BY BUS. WE WENT TO RASU FROM RIT BY BUS AND THEN FROM RASU, WE MARCHED TO KYAIKKASAN GROUND BY FOOT VIS UNIVERSITY AVENUE, KOKINE ROAD AND GOODLIFF ROAD.
You wrote..”But on that particular day General Ne Win made a serious mistake. He banned the public from the ground and allowed only the 3000 strong students of our RIT and the students from Rangoon Arts and Science University, RASU. So the senior students took the rare opportunity to stage the uprising without even letting us juniors know in advance.”
Wrong again..!!
-Let me pointed out ..the STUDENTS WERE NOT ONLY from RIT and RASU, Also from MC I, Dental, Vet, Eco and Students from Institute of Education were there. Let me ask you which university students carrying the “one for all all for one posters”
– No senior students go around and ordered the junior to go out, it was on the poster on the RIT notice board that mentioned “MA-SA-LA government blocked to hire all the busses to go to Kyaikasan ground..so instead we the students will march to the Kyaikasan ground on foot” becuase of this posters ,everyone got angry and those who are not plan to go to the Kyaikasan in the first hand chnage their mind and decided to march to Kyaikkasan and show the students courage.
you wrote..”That was the first time and only time I saw the famous student leader Tin Maung Oo close-up. He wasn’t even from our RIT, he was from RASU, but he was clever enough to choose us as the spearhead of his carefully-planned uprising. We RIT students are famous for our fighting spirits as almost of all us are boys and young men.”
WRONG AGAIN!
– Tin Maung Oo was not the student leader during U That uprisng. He was the leader of Hmaing Yar Pyi( Thakin Kodaw Hmaing 100yrs anniverassary) and later hanged immediately after arretsed.
-Noone used RIT students as spearhead..there were students from others universities especially RASU and ECO together with RIT students when we rushed to seige the U THANT coffin.
You Wrote. “By the way, Moe Aung, I did pass my matriculation in the academic year 1971-1972 with distinctions in Physics, Chemistry, and Mathematics. My roll number is 21742.”
Really??? You passed matriculation in 1971-72 and how come you can able to join the RIT in 1974 after desetred the army??? At the time Basic education Department was not allowed to do that..if you passed your matric in 1972 you have to join the universities in 1972 september.. otherwise you enrollment is void…(your family must be one of the families who corrupted together with Ne Win and or you have good connection with Col Hla Han who was educatiom minister at that time or major Nyunt Muang who was chief of Basic Education department at that time.
You wrote “They were giving us food, water, and cold drinks as if they could correctly guess that we were almost starving. I even managed to grab a boiled egg or two while I was still carrying U Thant’s heavy coffin.”
-Ha ha ha What a joke!!! when the U thant coffin was carried back to RASU it was not carried by the students on their shoulders.. it was carried on the Lorry…
You managed to grab boiled egg or Two???? how come I didn’t see anyone giving food on that same evening. Only people were donating the next day when student went out and request public for help.(I am one of the students who went out for asking doation for food)
I just want to say..you are a very good “FICTION WRITER BASED ON ACTUAL EVENT AND BENT IT TO SUIT YOUR STORY” LIKE THE MOVIE .. EXODUS BASED ON THE ACTUAL EVENT AND PUT A FICTIONAL CHARATER for a Noval.
I agree what Moe Aung said The more you write..the more it sound like the junta newspaper Myanma Ahlin. Looke like Your family and relative were granted good business in Burma by Than Shwe and Inc. In return you have to write this story to discredit the students involviong in U Thant uprisng acting like you are the one of the students witnessing or confessing the student brutality(as per normal Ne win and associate trick ..try to rewrite the Hisyory).
You dared to crtise NE Win because now Than Shwe is not good term with Ne Win Family(so it is not only please the people who suffered under Ne win but it also please the ThanShwe and Inc.) and you praise the recent generals by saying..”You see, our generals are not stupid at all. They are winning the civil war not just by killing their enemies. My father’s eventual surrender proves that.”
I just want to say this..don’t insult the Students(not only RIT all the universities student at that time) who invloved in U Thant uprising.
May be you and Than shwe might think that ..it is time for all of you to rewrite and distorted the History cleverly(by putting in 30% true facts and 70% lies).. ..fat hope!!! we are still alive and as long as we are still alive you cannot rewrite the History with distorted information.
it is not so difficult to check who is the 1974 RIT section D student with a name Hla Oo.
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
Re. Message 2:
I am worried about the collateral damage of such a downfall on the one hand, and the many innocent people today and tomorrow being browbeaten by this unjust and unjustly applied law.
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
3 August 2008
Dear FreeThai:
Please advise me of your email address directly at mine [email protected].
(Site admin – Is there a way to email commentators directly when they write like this, or do they need to be notified on this site as I have just done? Thanks.)
I cannot send the entire manuscript as the book (est. 80,000 words) is still under draft and not all chapters are complete.
I have some dozen lese majeste cases, however, that are being organized into a standard format for presentation in the book tentatively titled One Unlucky Guy, an account of uses and abuses of Thailand’s lese majeste law. 6 October 1976 plays a major role in the book.
Please provide some guidelines about what exactly you are looking for, and I will attempt to accommodate you.
Thanks for your interest.
Best regards,
Frank
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
Hi Frank,
we are a German language website about Thailand. Could you send us your manuscript about the LM-cases you were analyzing? We would like to use it within a German language article.
The king, the courts and the former PM
3 August 2008
I had a question I had neglected to ask earlier – with the king saying he wants to be criticized as long as it is constructive and valid, just who are the courts to say they are above criticism? Is this legal?
The king, the courts and the former PM
It WAS rather clever of those putting the 2007 constitution together to hog-tie the TRT aftermath. That Thaksin’s fate is ordained, one really should only blame him, the master of his fate, the captain of his soul. He wasn’t crying when he told Pojaman how to hide assets, but only when he was discovered.
The Thai courts may lack finesse and refinement, but in general I have found they are reasonably good. The problem is with crooked society that accepts so much crap that gets recognized as truth or unavoidable circumstances.
Pithy summary of lese majeste in Thailand
3 August 2008
Respect of the whip is a sad condition in many repressed societies. The lese majeste law, how it is perceived, accepted, reinforced and prolonged is an example.
As to the silence by H.M., in fact he has been silent on most LM cases. The idea of free speech, however, IS a frightening spectre not only to possibly HM et. al but to many Thais who have been hypnotized into thinking that the universe revolves around Bangkok.
HM and the rest of the Thai government have also not said much about that poor Thai noodle shop owner in San Francisco who was ganged up on by a bunch of holier-than-thous living in LA when they heard him say the king should have paid for the cost of the nullified election and not the EC itself. I am not sure whether the good Americans in LA and SF are aware of this infringement against the US constitution. Trying to take Thai LM into the US is a bit too much.
Lunch?
i hate seeing these photos, i am asian myself and i am embarrass wat is going on. As an animal lover myself .i am disguisted with how many people love to see animal tortured just for their own sake. SHAME ON THEM. I have 4 dogs and a rabbit, and i am glad my pets are save and love.
We need to help stop animal cruelty by supporting the RSPCA and WSPCA or any other animal organisation….Toegether we can do so much. HELP STOP CRUELTY!!!!!!
“Let the electorate judge”
I’ve often said that the TRT members should have stood up to Thaksin and moderated his worst excesses.
It’s time for PAD to do that to Sondhi L – IMO, he’s the worst thing about PAD, and his nationalistic ranting is dangerous.
“Let the electorate judge”
“Yes, I think it is unfortunate that the PAD does not have moderate leaders.” >> If it had, there would not have been any PAD!!
PAD – ready for violence
Maybe, less compassion, ie. less emotional confusion, will lead to a clearer understandings of what has been happening?
Finding treasures in The Times archive
I do love those archives! Trying to figure out when opium had become a significant cash crop for upland peoples in northern mainland Southeast Asia, I found many gems in online archives of newspapers of the day. For instance, colonial authorities in Burma were deeply concerned about the uplanders growing opium as they feared it would cut into their monopolies; so, too, with the Royal Thai government. The Daily News (London) of May 21, 1886, noted the opium trafficking problem in Upper Burma and the government’s plan to suppress that trade (Daily News (London) 1886).
Daily News (London)
1886 The Suppression of the Opium Trade. Daily News (London), 21 May: page 3.
1900 This Morning’s News. Web Archives, http://Www.Uk.Olivesoftware.Com/. Daily News (London), 5 November.
I also found interesting accounts of British attempts to exert sovereignty over the Sino-Burmese border area by serving as peace makers. Part of what’s fun about reading these is that the cultural ideas of the time about the role of the British in world politics and the centrality of the idea of trade and profit as legitimations of British control.
The king, the courts and the former PM
Michael Connors wrote: “Now, in one of those historical reversals that defy general theories of history, it would appear that one of Thailand’s most successful capitalists may well be the sacrificial lamb (innocent or guilty) on the altar of Thailand’s judicialisation of politics and the emergence of a potentially more robust rule of law.”
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1360&Itemid=31
That would include murdered journalists, such as the Matichon journalist below, searching for the truth.
Ironically the evidence can only be hinted at below and will probably will only ever exist as hearsay or gossip between those in the know. Murder once again seems to be an effective way of snuffing out the knowledge necessary for informed decisions by the public, no wonder there is public apathy about “rule of law”:
Matichon reporter shot dead at home
Journalist voiced concern over safety
By Supapong Chaolan
A reporter for Matichon newspaper was shot dead while cooking at his home on Friday in what the Thai Journalists Association (TJA) is calling a blatant attempt to silence the media. Athiwat Chainurat, 48, was alone when a gunman shot him in the head, back and stomach. The attack took place about 9pm…..
”He became extra careful recently due to a conflict with some local politicians over his reports. …
Pol Lt-Gen Thani said police suspected the murder was related to news reports written by the victim, which caused conflicts with a high-ranking government officer in the district…
He assigned his deputy Pol Maj-Gen Santhan Chayanont to handle the case, and added that the investigation had made good progress and a team was collecting evidence.
But a source close to Athiwat disagreed.
He said a high-profile politician who had always been unhappy with Athiwat’s reports might have used the victim’s conflict with the government officer to have him killed and put the blame on the officer.
The TJA said the premeditated murder might be the work of an influential figure who has no fear of the law and the act was a case of serious intimidation against investigative journalists….
http://bangkokpost.com/030808_News/03Aug2008_news09.php