I think I see the point more clearly now, but my sense is that it is a bit to the side of the meaning of the proverb for most Khmer (any Khmers reading this? Sound off, please!).
While death is clearly the ultimate leveler (we all end in the grave or as ash, ideally), and the proverb points to this, I would hazard that the proverb says less about the possiblility of some sort of hegelian aufbehung in death, in which the social contradictions of a hugely hierarchical cultural imaginary (that’s where I do agree with you on the hegelian bit – the bus cleaner was definitely a lower human in the social realm there, and the owner a higher human – to be clear, not my interpretation), than a way of pointing to the ultimate irrelevance of the treasures of this world, or the honors rendered the gods (who definitely die, by the way – that’s a well-established part of Buddhist cosmology).
I would also point out that it is not the case that the Buddha ‘treasures’ death (well, maybe he does, I don’t know, but the proverb doesn’t say anything about it), but that the treasures of the Buddha – which I read as that which is valuable about Buddhism and its teachings – are death.
Erik, fascinating proverb. I’m admittedly quite unknowledgeable about this stuff. But the proverb got me thinking about of Ajahn Chah’s reiteration of the Buddha’s “die before you die” teaching, as for example:
The Buddha taught to ‘die before you die’, to be finished with things before they are finished. Then you can be at ease. Let things break before they are broken, let them finish before they are finished. This is the Buddha’s intention in teaching the Dhamma.
Given the Buddha’s extortions against craving for death, as a desire for cessation (vibhavata.nhaa). Could the way to “value the grave” be to value dispassion in life as the fruit of realising the inevitability of death ?
My reason for using the Taoist proverb was just to explore the idea of yours, rather than say which is right or not.
That the Buddha treasures the grave and nirvana, and it comes last in the proverb implies that Gods can die too?
When I was in Poipet, there was a man who told me that his boss used to beat him when the buses were not clean. In stop-start English, very broken French and Lonely Planet Khmer, I part interpreted, part assumed that he bore no ill feeling towards his boss because they would end up in the same place and that he did not have time to hate — because the buses had to be cleaned or he wouldn’t be paid.
To be a little Hegelian, the immediate implication is that the man cleaning the bus is a man and the boss is a God, floating on a cloud of perfect incense above ultra hygenic buses, and both will end up in a grave — but because the man appreciates that his boss will die too, it gives me the impression that, in relation to your quote, despite him having the look of being a submissive crude hedonist, there is some Buddhist virtue resonating within.
Therefore, the boss is only the man and his ‘slave’, a superior being. That is what I was muddling about in the first post about there being a lexicon in regards to the importance of what comes first in your proverb. Does this have any resonance in Cambodia, or am I using Western concepts to make sense of Cambodian society?
Thanks for your response.
Hey Dave Everett, an old friend looking for you. says:
Thanks for clearing that up about US vs Chinese capital, Jon, but capital is still capital and not a neutral good so its judicious handling remains very important for policy makers with a long term view of the country’s socio-economic goals. And true, for their own reasons, the Burmese generals don’t go out of their way to make life easier for investors even to operate for the short term let alone make viable long term plans. Burmese people themselves have learnt to just live one day at a time.
Yes, Burma became the whipping boy because bullies are by nature cowards. Getting nukes for yourself is a sure fire protection plan against such bullying. It makes sense for more countries to seek nukes not less. Even the generals have cottoned on to that and Russia seems keen to help.
Rather worrying about your references to the military sending officers overseas for their ‘education’ too. In your selection of specific cases, Thailand and the Philippines, you seem to have forgotten the School of the Americas and its alumni Noriega and Galtieri. Also the Berkeley Mafia of Indonesia in the 60s – Suharto’s favourite economists – and their counterparts in the military, the Berkeley Boys, all US trained and instrumental in installing Suharto and the subsequent massacres. There are hundreds of Burmese officers in Russia today, Fritz Werner of Germany was the main armaments supplier, and Israel has trained Burmese intelligence officers. Neutral good? Constructive engagement or what?
Very interesting to mention Lord Justice Jeffreys. So I assume you have already read the recent Thai court cases which jonfernquest was referring to at #4.
It has been said that LJ Jeffrey’s decisions handed down for treason were “in utter disregard for the demands of justice”. Recent major court rulings which have been handed down in Thailand include the one concerning the Foreign Minister and the other one with the Health Minister. So could you please point out what you have read in those rulings (please also refer to specific paragraph numbers so I can find them easily, thanks) which would lead you to conclude that the rulings were “in utter disregard for the demands of justice”?
As for me, I have read them and I think they rest on sound legal reasoning.
Re #10 He has said he looked at the NCCC handbook which hadn’t been updated and he didn’t have to declare his wife’s shareholdings
Yes, and Thaksin (with tears in eyes) has said that billions of baht that happened to be listed in the names of his housemaid, driver, cook, and gardener was done so due to honest mistake.
It’s quite clear that if there was any real substance to Chaiya’s assertion about the manual he would have mentioned it as his defence in court, but he did not.
He did try for a Thaksin-style honest mistake defence, but the court wasn’t having any of it since the NCCC Secretary-General Sarawut Menasawet had attended a cabinet meeting on 8 Feb 2008 and spelled out the details of Article 269 (i.e. that the requirements also applied to spouses and children) to the then newly-appointed ministers (see paragraph 3.5 and page 14 of the ruling).
Hey Grasshopper, no apology necessary. I waited to respond partly to see if others wanted to jump in, partly because I honestly am not certain I understood the thrust of your original comment. Let me take a stab at it.
My understanding of this proverb is that it identifies those items which are properly ‘valuable’ to different entities: Men value (stupidly, it is implied, from a Buddhist ascetic perspective) women, liquor, and material wealth; In Cambodia, it is often said that candles and incense are not for the Buddha, but for the gods (devata); but the Buddha’s treasures are the tough part. How do we ‘value’ death? How do we value the grave, and how do we even begin to think about nirvana?
I don’t want to get into comparisons with Taoist proverbs, since I’m not sure what that would accomplish: as an anthropologist/historian of religion, I’m less interested in deciding which religion or school of thought is ‘right’ and more interested in understanding how this proverb ‘means’ in a particular setting.
I hope that addresses some of your comments, and provides material for further discussion.
Kuson mentions the “uneducated gullibles” – personally, I think they are the least of Thailand’s problems. It is the ‘educated gullibles’ that is most dangerous – as, if they are the influential politicians, they are the ones that manipulate the first group for, on the main, personal financial benefits and, if they are voters, see profit over social justice.
Although it is somewhat accurate as a classification, I am not quite comfortable with the term “uneducated gullibles” having been very fortunate to meet ‘them’ in their rural home contexts and have been in awe of their honest and simple lifestyles close to the land (it seems rather different meeting them in the city as laborers, domestics, vendors etc… and when my own status changed from a student to a Bangkok-based professional…). And having, unfortunately, also met the ‘educated gullibles’, whether local or from the provincial towns, that – on the whole – exploit them. It’s not surprising that we get the politicians that we have – and that is why Tulakarnphiwat is critical to contain the politicians’ excesses and a potentially transformative phenomenon for Thai democracy.
Seeing powerful ‘educated gullibles’ subjected to the rule of law (and fleeing in many cases) is surely a very positive sign for Thai society and democracy that Western media intentionally ignore – when they are critical narratives for other aspiring democracies (and the dominance of Zimbabwe in the global media comes to mind here)… Just some reflections on Kuson’s comments and choice of words/classifications.
“… He has said he looked at the NCCC handbook which hadn’t been updated and he didn’t have to declare his wife’s shareholdings.”
Interesting if that is the case, I always understood that cabinet ministers (from BP comment, it seems that this covers all MPs) have to declare all assets held under their, their partners’ and dependent children’s names. I understand that was why PMThaksin shifted a lot of his ShinCorp shares to his children over 18 (or is it 20, I’m not sure myself). These rules, with all the ways to circumvent it, seem to keep causing problems!
Stunning outfit indeed – not to mention memorable and original in adaptation (as a follower of Thai design, I sense a renaissance is in the offing). Otherwise another Latin American (and Venezuelan in particular – maybe time for a handicap system?) domination at the Miss Universe pageant.
Jon wrote “The courts have found Chaiya guilty of concealing assets, something he apparently thought he could get away with, perhaps because he has a lot of money. ”
So how did it come to the attention of the authorities? Didn’t he bring it to the attention of the NCCC himself? He has said he looked at the NCCC handbook which hadn’t been updated and he didn’t have to declare his wife’s shareholdings.
There is another 60 people who are in the same boat.
And yes, I support Thais, all the poor and not-poor ones, to strive the “Sufficiency Philosopy” until they hit the optimum point — at a point when they are Not A Burden To Anyone Else (the government in form of social security, to the family in terms of loans etc.) and up and all the way up the graph gradually!
I honestly think who she is inside is more important that who she is outside (but unfortunately these things are quite sensitive in the culture. ) . I for one, can’t dress well, will not be a role model for that, but think I can contribute to the country.
Remember, “Hellen Keller”, though blind taught many people to See 🙂
IMHO, a beauty pageant designer art should be kept where it was meant to be, as pretty and relevant in the beauty pageant context. Whether one likes the design or not is up to one’s taste.
Personally I think it is quite clever they got the sport to in concept in a beauty pagent (if you’ve seen Muay Thai, you get the picture immediately), and added fun to that event.
#2 Observer
Every piece of art ( for this one, shown without the cloak, I think done by a North Eastern art designer) has its critics. But to mention “copying” especially in the Suvannabhumi (not the airport, but the Thailand, Laos,Camboadia area) would be quite weak IMHO. Similarly if you do see someone playing Songkran in Cambodia in Laos, it would not be ‘copying’, since the cultures in the area is quite similar. Saying ‘copycat’ in this case, I think, is a sign of weakness.
#3 Ref Manning Sawwinner
Muay Thai does forbid Woman in the sport in ancient times (perhaps fighting with elbows and feet is left to the strapping boys), the times have changed and many schools teaching Thai boxing to women have sprung up in the growing interest (I would think) from Foreigners. Taken this context, and the context that a sport in theory should be enjoyed by anyone, it should be ok I reckon? [btw, I am Thai, and generally conservative] I do respect however, if you are from the conservative end, hardcore boxer with ingrained ‘how things have to be’.
“Let the electorate judge the Thai Government’s fate…[not the courts]”
Yes, let the rural masses decide everything. Raise your hand, extrajudicial executions, everyone? The ayes have it. Shoot away. That’s basically what Sarit did when he hauled arsonists out and had them shot in public. Also what Thaksin with his very popular 3,000-dead-without-trial drug war. Also, what keeps the so-called “corruption,” which Thaksin and Samak called part of Thai society, going. Elect them and receive your handouts, and who cares what they do afterwards.
“The Government is under attack in the courts, in Parliament and in the media.”
Isn’t the job of the media is to be critical, and it was made even more critical by attempts by Thaksin flunkies to control it and put those critical elements out of business, parliament is basically an adversarial system, and the law courts? They enforce the law (not attack people) and they are doing this now with with great speed because the great saviour of the rural electorate has his constitutional modifying sights firmly planted on the courts. Bye, bye, objective court system, just like bye, bye critical media.
Right, you break the law, are found guilty, and the courts are “attacking” you. Why do I find something wrong with this logic?
Critically investigating the processes at work in the judicial system, as Chang Noi did in a recent article, is an entirely different thing: http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/trampled.htm
“I know you are not a fan of brevity, but I think I did cover the key decisions last week.”
Try “mention in passing,” to support the larger contention that everything should be decided by the rural electorate.
Chaiya, is a good example of what slips by the rural electorate, his sole purpose as Public Health Ministry (he was a rich businessman with absolutely no background in this area) seemed to be to serve as flunky for western pharmaceutical companies who want compulsory licensing withdrawn.
Instead of a career civil servant in the foreign ministry, Thaksin’s personal lawyer Noppadon is made foreign minister, and then fails in what is apparently standard operating practice in the foreign ministry, at least according to the courts (and this is independent of whether you agree with the Preah Vihaar dispute (which I think is a rather silly issue personally).
“There were significant decisions by courts last week. Why can’t the foreign media can’t bring themselves to report these facts?”
The foreign media always seems to report in a way that makes the courts seem to be anti-Thaksin flunkies, like this statement in the New York Times, which I would really like to see elaborated:
I found the references to special arrangements or kin/friendship ties in hiring someone to plow with their tractor or to hire a tractor from. Several years ago in northern Thailand, I was driving through a midlands valley where Thai farmers were harvesting rice and my Thai colleagues, all of whom studied agriculture but were certainly urban, lamented the bygone days when villages joined together in labor exchange, each farmer rewarding the day’s labor with a feast. They spoke disparagingly of the ways in which exchange relationships had been monetized. It had become easier to pay off laborers without any any residual and on-going social obligations, but left the poorer farmers without the means to benefit from the exchange.
Perhaps they were romanticizing; perhaps the use of ‘iron buffalo’ and paid labor has now settled into the prior text of Thai social relationships. So I guess I’m not surprised to see that people hire their relatives to plow their land, that they make special arrangement with friends, and so on.
thanks much for this!
And don’t forget Thaksin’s lawyers trying to bribe the court with a pastry box full of cash! From everything I have read it appears that the courts are the only thing saving Thailand at the moment. The corruption cases against Thaksin are all on their way to court. It will be interesting to see what he and his supporters stir up when/if he is convicted and sent to jail.
I am just finishing Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit’s “A History of Thailand” and it is interesting to see how history there keeps on repeating itself.
Of course there is plenty of corruption in almost every government in the world.
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“The treasures of man are women, wine, cars and villas…”
I think I see the point more clearly now, but my sense is that it is a bit to the side of the meaning of the proverb for most Khmer (any Khmers reading this? Sound off, please!).
While death is clearly the ultimate leveler (we all end in the grave or as ash, ideally), and the proverb points to this, I would hazard that the proverb says less about the possiblility of some sort of hegelian aufbehung in death, in which the social contradictions of a hugely hierarchical cultural imaginary (that’s where I do agree with you on the hegelian bit – the bus cleaner was definitely a lower human in the social realm there, and the owner a higher human – to be clear, not my interpretation), than a way of pointing to the ultimate irrelevance of the treasures of this world, or the honors rendered the gods (who definitely die, by the way – that’s a well-established part of Buddhist cosmology).
I would also point out that it is not the case that the Buddha ‘treasures’ death (well, maybe he does, I don’t know, but the proverb doesn’t say anything about it), but that the treasures of the Buddha – which I read as that which is valuable about Buddhism and its teachings – are death.
Thanks for engaging on this.
“The treasures of man are women, wine, cars and villas…”
Erik, fascinating proverb. I’m admittedly quite unknowledgeable about this stuff. But the proverb got me thinking about of Ajahn Chah’s reiteration of the Buddha’s “die before you die” teaching, as for example:
Given the Buddha’s extortions against craving for death, as a desire for cessation (vibhavata.nhaa). Could the way to “value the grave” be to value dispassion in life as the fruit of realising the inevitability of death ?
Armed struggle: The way forward?
That’s it, armed struggle in Burma. What a novel idea. Why has no one in the country ever thought of this option before?
“The treasures of man are women, wine, cars and villas…”
My reason for using the Taoist proverb was just to explore the idea of yours, rather than say which is right or not.
That the Buddha treasures the grave and nirvana, and it comes last in the proverb implies that Gods can die too?
When I was in Poipet, there was a man who told me that his boss used to beat him when the buses were not clean. In stop-start English, very broken French and Lonely Planet Khmer, I part interpreted, part assumed that he bore no ill feeling towards his boss because they would end up in the same place and that he did not have time to hate — because the buses had to be cleaned or he wouldn’t be paid.
To be a little Hegelian, the immediate implication is that the man cleaning the bus is a man and the boss is a God, floating on a cloud of perfect incense above ultra hygenic buses, and both will end up in a grave — but because the man appreciates that his boss will die too, it gives me the impression that, in relation to your quote, despite him having the look of being a submissive crude hedonist, there is some Buddhist virtue resonating within.
Therefore, the boss is only the man and his ‘slave’, a superior being. That is what I was muddling about in the first post about there being a lexicon in regards to the importance of what comes first in your proverb. Does this have any resonance in Cambodia, or am I using Western concepts to make sense of Cambodian society?
Thanks for your response.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Hi Dave,
You got your German Shaephard from me.
Remember the gorilla suit?? I do.
Now you might remember who I am please get in contact with me. Old friends are good friends.
Your website link failed so I could contact you personally.
I am in Canberra, you probably remembver which department.
Cheers Mate.
“Let the electorate judge”
For some reason Chaiya still thinks he’s entitled to a cabinet ministry portfolio.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/07/17/headlines/headlines_30078312.php
Ashley South on post-cyclone Burma
Thanks for clearing that up about US vs Chinese capital, Jon, but capital is still capital and not a neutral good so its judicious handling remains very important for policy makers with a long term view of the country’s socio-economic goals. And true, for their own reasons, the Burmese generals don’t go out of their way to make life easier for investors even to operate for the short term let alone make viable long term plans. Burmese people themselves have learnt to just live one day at a time.
Yes, Burma became the whipping boy because bullies are by nature cowards. Getting nukes for yourself is a sure fire protection plan against such bullying. It makes sense for more countries to seek nukes not less. Even the generals have cottoned on to that and Russia seems keen to help.
Rather worrying about your references to the military sending officers overseas for their ‘education’ too. In your selection of specific cases, Thailand and the Philippines, you seem to have forgotten the School of the Americas and its alumni Noriega and Galtieri. Also the Berkeley Mafia of Indonesia in the 60s – Suharto’s favourite economists – and their counterparts in the military, the Berkeley Boys, all US trained and instrumental in installing Suharto and the subsequent massacres. There are hundreds of Burmese officers in Russia today, Fritz Werner of Germany was the main armaments supplier, and Israel has trained Burmese intelligence officers. Neutral good? Constructive engagement or what?
“Let the electorate judge”
Re #7
Very interesting to mention Lord Justice Jeffreys. So I assume you have already read the recent Thai court cases which jonfernquest was referring to at #4.
It has been said that LJ Jeffrey’s decisions handed down for treason were “in utter disregard for the demands of justice”. Recent major court rulings which have been handed down in Thailand include the one concerning the Foreign Minister and the other one with the Health Minister. So could you please point out what you have read in those rulings (please also refer to specific paragraph numbers so I can find them easily, thanks) which would lead you to conclude that the rulings were “in utter disregard for the demands of justice”?
As for me, I have read them and I think they rest on sound legal reasoning.
Re #10
He has said he looked at the NCCC handbook which hadn’t been updated and he didn’t have to declare his wife’s shareholdings
Yes, and Thaksin (with tears in eyes) has said that billions of baht that happened to be listed in the names of his housemaid, driver, cook, and gardener was done so due to honest mistake.
It’s quite clear that if there was any real substance to Chaiya’s assertion about the manual he would have mentioned it as his defence in court, but he did not.
He did try for a Thaksin-style honest mistake defence, but the court wasn’t having any of it since the NCCC Secretary-General Sarawut Menasawet had attended a cabinet meeting on 8 Feb 2008 and spelled out the details of Article 269 (i.e. that the requirements also applied to spouses and children) to the then newly-appointed ministers (see paragraph 3.5 and page 14 of the ruling).
“The treasures of man are women, wine, cars and villas…”
Hey Grasshopper, no apology necessary. I waited to respond partly to see if others wanted to jump in, partly because I honestly am not certain I understood the thrust of your original comment. Let me take a stab at it.
My understanding of this proverb is that it identifies those items which are properly ‘valuable’ to different entities: Men value (stupidly, it is implied, from a Buddhist ascetic perspective) women, liquor, and material wealth; In Cambodia, it is often said that candles and incense are not for the Buddha, but for the gods (devata); but the Buddha’s treasures are the tough part. How do we ‘value’ death? How do we value the grave, and how do we even begin to think about nirvana?
I don’t want to get into comparisons with Taoist proverbs, since I’m not sure what that would accomplish: as an anthropologist/historian of religion, I’m less interested in deciding which religion or school of thought is ‘right’ and more interested in understanding how this proverb ‘means’ in a particular setting.
I hope that addresses some of your comments, and provides material for further discussion.
Time to go home
Kuson mentions the “uneducated gullibles” – personally, I think they are the least of Thailand’s problems. It is the ‘educated gullibles’ that is most dangerous – as, if they are the influential politicians, they are the ones that manipulate the first group for, on the main, personal financial benefits and, if they are voters, see profit over social justice.
Although it is somewhat accurate as a classification, I am not quite comfortable with the term “uneducated gullibles” having been very fortunate to meet ‘them’ in their rural home contexts and have been in awe of their honest and simple lifestyles close to the land (it seems rather different meeting them in the city as laborers, domestics, vendors etc… and when my own status changed from a student to a Bangkok-based professional…). And having, unfortunately, also met the ‘educated gullibles’, whether local or from the provincial towns, that – on the whole – exploit them. It’s not surprising that we get the politicians that we have – and that is why Tulakarnphiwat is critical to contain the politicians’ excesses and a potentially transformative phenomenon for Thai democracy.
Seeing powerful ‘educated gullibles’ subjected to the rule of law (and fleeing in many cases) is surely a very positive sign for Thai society and democracy that Western media intentionally ignore – when they are critical narratives for other aspiring democracies (and the dominance of Zimbabwe in the global media comes to mind here)… Just some reflections on Kuson’s comments and choice of words/classifications.
“Let the electorate judge”
I’m still amazed how one can mix up Thailand’s democracy with democracy.
That state of Thailand’ state calls for more drastic measures than elections once a while.
“Let the electorate judge”
“… He has said he looked at the NCCC handbook which hadn’t been updated and he didn’t have to declare his wife’s shareholdings.”
Interesting if that is the case, I always understood that cabinet ministers (from BP comment, it seems that this covers all MPs) have to declare all assets held under their, their partners’ and dependent children’s names. I understand that was why PMThaksin shifted a lot of his ShinCorp shares to his children over 18 (or is it 20, I’m not sure myself). These rules, with all the ways to circumvent it, seem to keep causing problems!
National pride restored!
Stunning outfit indeed – not to mention memorable and original in adaptation (as a follower of Thai design, I sense a renaissance is in the offing). Otherwise another Latin American (and Venezuelan in particular – maybe time for a handicap system?) domination at the Miss Universe pageant.
“Let the electorate judge”
Jon wrote “The courts have found Chaiya guilty of concealing assets, something he apparently thought he could get away with, perhaps because he has a lot of money. ”
So how did it come to the attention of the authorities? Didn’t he bring it to the attention of the NCCC himself? He has said he looked at the NCCC handbook which hadn’t been updated and he didn’t have to declare his wife’s shareholdings.
There is another 60 people who are in the same boat.
Sufficiency and the rich
And yes, I support Thais, all the poor and not-poor ones, to strive the “Sufficiency Philosopy” until they hit the optimum point — at a point when they are Not A Burden To Anyone Else (the government in form of social security, to the family in terms of loans etc.) and up and all the way up the graph gradually!
In sufficient clothing
I love her dress -its sexy!
I honestly think who she is inside is more important that who she is outside (but unfortunately these things are quite sensitive in the culture. ) . I for one, can’t dress well, will not be a role model for that, but think I can contribute to the country.
Remember, “Hellen Keller”, though blind taught many people to See 🙂
National pride restored!
IMHO, a beauty pageant designer art should be kept where it was meant to be, as pretty and relevant in the beauty pageant context. Whether one likes the design or not is up to one’s taste.
Personally I think it is quite clever they got the sport to in concept in a beauty pagent (if you’ve seen Muay Thai, you get the picture immediately), and added fun to that event.
#2 Observer
Every piece of art ( for this one, shown without the cloak, I think done by a North Eastern art designer) has its critics. But to mention “copying” especially in the Suvannabhumi (not the airport, but the Thailand, Laos,Camboadia area) would be quite weak IMHO. Similarly if you do see someone playing Songkran in Cambodia in Laos, it would not be ‘copying’, since the cultures in the area is quite similar. Saying ‘copycat’ in this case, I think, is a sign of weakness.
#3 Ref Manning Sawwinner
Muay Thai does forbid Woman in the sport in ancient times (perhaps fighting with elbows and feet is left to the strapping boys), the times have changed and many schools teaching Thai boxing to women have sprung up in the growing interest (I would think) from Foreigners. Taken this context, and the context that a sport in theory should be enjoyed by anyone, it should be ok I reckon? [btw, I am Thai, and generally conservative] I do respect however, if you are from the conservative end, hardcore boxer with ingrained ‘how things have to be’.
“Let the electorate judge”
“Let the electorate judge the Thai Government’s fate…[not the courts]”
Yes, let the rural masses decide everything. Raise your hand, extrajudicial executions, everyone? The ayes have it. Shoot away. That’s basically what Sarit did when he hauled arsonists out and had them shot in public. Also what Thaksin with his very popular 3,000-dead-without-trial drug war. Also, what keeps the so-called “corruption,” which Thaksin and Samak called part of Thai society, going. Elect them and receive your handouts, and who cares what they do afterwards.
“The Government is under attack in the courts, in Parliament and in the media.”
Isn’t the job of the media is to be critical, and it was made even more critical by attempts by Thaksin flunkies to control it and put those critical elements out of business, parliament is basically an adversarial system, and the law courts? They enforce the law (not attack people) and they are doing this now with with great speed because the great saviour of the rural electorate has his constitutional modifying sights firmly planted on the courts. Bye, bye, objective court system, just like bye, bye critical media.
Right, you break the law, are found guilty, and the courts are “attacking” you. Why do I find something wrong with this logic?
Critically investigating the processes at work in the judicial system, as Chang Noi did in a recent article, is an entirely different thing:
http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/trampled.htm
“I know you are not a fan of brevity, but I think I did cover the key decisions last week.”
Try “mention in passing,” to support the larger contention that everything should be decided by the rural electorate.
Chaiya, is a good example of what slips by the rural electorate, his sole purpose as Public Health Ministry (he was a rich businessman with absolutely no background in this area) seemed to be to serve as flunky for western pharmaceutical companies who want compulsory licensing withdrawn.
Instead of a career civil servant in the foreign ministry, Thaksin’s personal lawyer Noppadon is made foreign minister, and then fails in what is apparently standard operating practice in the foreign ministry, at least according to the courts (and this is independent of whether you agree with the Preah Vihaar dispute (which I think is a rather silly issue personally).
“There were significant decisions by courts last week. Why can’t the foreign media can’t bring themselves to report these facts?”
The foreign media always seems to report in a way that makes the courts seem to be anti-Thaksin flunkies, like this statement in the New York Times, which I would really like to see elaborated:
“In addition, the various constitutional bodies created to monitor corruption, elections and the law are now mostly led by people who supported his ouster. ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/world/asia/11thai.html?ref=todayspaper
The Economist is better:
“Thaksinites see the cases as part of a plot by their foes–Bangkok’s conservative, royalist elite–to destroy them.”
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11707239
I don’t believe the BBC or Washington Post even covered it. A person who reads widely in the media, told me the court cases were largely not covered.
Fuel, tractors and buffalos – some local views
I found the references to special arrangements or kin/friendship ties in hiring someone to plow with their tractor or to hire a tractor from. Several years ago in northern Thailand, I was driving through a midlands valley where Thai farmers were harvesting rice and my Thai colleagues, all of whom studied agriculture but were certainly urban, lamented the bygone days when villages joined together in labor exchange, each farmer rewarding the day’s labor with a feast. They spoke disparagingly of the ways in which exchange relationships had been monetized. It had become easier to pay off laborers without any any residual and on-going social obligations, but left the poorer farmers without the means to benefit from the exchange.
Perhaps they were romanticizing; perhaps the use of ‘iron buffalo’ and paid labor has now settled into the prior text of Thai social relationships. So I guess I’m not surprised to see that people hire their relatives to plow their land, that they make special arrangement with friends, and so on.
thanks much for this!
“Let the electorate judge”
And don’t forget Thaksin’s lawyers trying to bribe the court with a pastry box full of cash! From everything I have read it appears that the courts are the only thing saving Thailand at the moment. The corruption cases against Thaksin are all on their way to court. It will be interesting to see what he and his supporters stir up when/if he is convicted and sent to jail.
I am just finishing Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit’s “A History of Thailand” and it is interesting to see how history there keeps on repeating itself.
Of course there is plenty of corruption in almost every government in the world.