Soldiers of the Karen National Liberation Army have wrested control of substantial tracts of land within Burma’s Karen State and are building new villages so displaced people can return home.
Many of the areas were once densely populated by Karen farmers, but their homes and farms were razed in seek-and-destroy missions by troops of the ruling military regime, the State Peace and Development Council.
The KNLA soldiers have planted vast tracts of corn, to this point they expect a coming crop of 10,000 tonnes of cobs that will be sold across the border in Thailand to buy rice and build homes for anyone displaced by decades of fighting to return home.
At a tiny village, equipped with a medical clinic and a school, solar panels supply power for lighting and the KNLA soldiers have constructed secure water infrastructure.
On a tour of the areas under development, Colonel Nerdah, a KNLA commander, said it was time to rethink the refugee camps strung out along the Thai border and how displaced people could realistically be helped to come home.
“We must build the economy and provide security,” he said of trying to orchestrate a future for people who have suffered trauma so great they have been content to languish in refugee camps on Thai territory and hope for relocation to a third country.
“We must first recognise ourselves as Karen without waiting for anyone else to recognise us,” he said.
“The SPDC is stubborn, is backed by China and it is not going to give in.
“We must first help the people with health care and schooling.
“Then, when we have an economy again and the Burmese junta is unable to cross our demarcation lines, people will begin to recognise us,” he said.
Colonel Nerdah then explained the theory behind the new tactics.
The KNLA had finally won back portions of the state after crippling SPDC offensives beginning in earnest in 1984 that forced more than 150,000 people into Thai refugee camps.
Now they had to repopulate, he said.
“Karen State must be controlled by occupation,” he said.
“Now we say to people, ‘come home, you have your country and we can provide security’,” he said.
As we walked through one of the newly-established villages, one of three visited on our tour, he described the people living and working the substantial farms there as the true heroes of the Karen nation.
“These are really brave people who want to stay in their homeland,” he said.
“You know everyday I sit and think: How to end this war?
“I think perhaps one day when the fighting is over I might like to sit in the shade and have a cold beer on a hot day. I think that first sip would probably taste so good.”
Colonel Nerdah is 42 years old and has not yet allowed himself that luxury because the liberation of his people is not complete.
He laughs when asked about Cyclone Nargis.
“You know the enemy only have 70 per cent of their air force left and who knows what is left of the navy.
“The SPDC soldiers are demoralised, they don’t want to leave base camp anymore and they have been banned from listening to the BBC so they don’t get news of what is happening.”
“They are paid poorly and their families are not taken care of back home.”
It is a critical time for this country’s future.
Some of you I’m sure are aware of the siege of Insein in 1949 when the besieged Socialist government of U Nu was dubbed the Rangoon government, and Naw Seng’s little escapade when his Kachin outfit was sent to fight the KNDO/KNU and he ended up joining them and hijacking a plane from Meiktila to Maymyo over 500 miles north of Rangoon in a daring exploit. But of course no ethnic rebellion, not just the Karen, on their own will ever topple the government, and let’s not forget that 17 insurgent armies were arrayed against the government at one stage of the conflict.
Disunity has plagued the myriad opponents of the government, dubbed multicoloured insurgents in the early days. Unless they all team up with the majority Burman opposition, national reconciliation and national self-determination will remain a pipe dream.
The Tatmadaw has grown too big to ensure absolute loyalty to the junta. The officer class treats the troops badly. Many units are left to forage for themselves. They are mostly Buddhists and impacted by both the cyclone and September 2007. The Burman majority has been treated no differently from the minorities once they started challenging the junta’s legitimacy and authority. It’s high time the minorities wised up and not repeat the same costly mistakes of the last 60 years.
John F., When has “constructive dialogue” been tried by western countries? They have rejected this since 1988 despite repeated arguments by the ASEAN nations and other Asian countries that this was the only reasonable approach. In any case it does not have to be dialogue with the generals. The presence of more western organizations of all type, governmental and non-governmental, as well as tourists, in Burma would open doors to the outside world and help to stimulate gradual change. Instead the international community somehow thinks that isolating Burma will have a beneficial effect. Isolation is what the ruling generals want so this just plays into their hands, especially in a natural resource rich country which is self sufficient in basic necessities. In my view this sort of approach represents a poverty of imaginative thinking and a resort to tired old methods that have never worked well anywhere.
Opinions vary widely on how to best help the Karens and Burmese.
One camp would take the tack of benign neglect, leaving the people of Burma to their fate, to sort things out on their own. That doesn’t appear to be working too well.
Another group wants to engage the Burmese junta in what they call “constructive dialogue”. They feel that talking to the generals will bring about some sort of change. This has been tried repeatedly, and has gotten nowhere.
Then we have the group that Jonfernquest refers to as “military hobbyists”.
While they are incapable of turning the tide, their numbers being too small, they do provide the resistance with the means to defend themselves a little bit better.
The tatmadaw cannot be beaten on the battlefield by the small numbers arrayed against them. They have the second largest army in that part of Asia. But they can be bloodied enough to give them pause.
No one in their right mind expects the KNLA or any of the other dissident groups to ride into Rangoon in triumph, ala the Northern Alliance in Kabul.
But if they can resist enough, just perhaps they might be able to exist as a people on the Thai border, living their lives in peace, and determining their own fate.
I won’t pretend to have the answer. This conflict began before I was even born, and it will most probably continue after I’ve exited this mortal coil.
But I do know that someone has to try. You can’t just wring your hands and say, “It’s too hard. Let’s not get involved.”
Thank You, I couldn’t agree more with what you said.
Except what you say about Asian Tribune. I have been reading this online magazine for years and have always found it to be reliable, informative, dependable and worth taking note when they report something like that. If you read the article carefully, there appears to be what I would certainly call an “insinuation” that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to US govt/military involvement there.
I do hope this is just a case of an article written out of context, which happens. But my attention is still grabbed.
Your right, the idea that the Karen could bring down the junta to me seems absurd, despite what logic I’ve heard here.
Though I certainly defend their right to defend themselves, and I am glad they have had help in training, as they have had for years and years.
If ever an attempt by the Karen to bring down the junta was to take place, as was suggest here, it would not be a war between the Karen and the junta. The junta would bring everyone in the mix, and up to hundreds of thousands of innocent people would be killed.
Though looking at a map, it is easy to see a “military mind’s” logic to such a venture, esp. considering Shan is not too far way, and both are in proximity to Naypiydaw. Which gives me greater concern that military minds might be busy, as you say, considering themselves and their ideas to be of greater importance than Teachers.
This an interesting and refreshing thread. I very much agree with Aiontay’s point above about the linguistic “cosmopolitanism” of mainland Southeast Asia, especially minorities. I remember Prof. Robert Bickner saying in a class I took with him on Thai linguistics that it’s one of the most linguistically complex areas of the world besides the American plains before the arrival of Europeans. This complexity very much seems to be a part of collective memory, even among ethnic groups that are domninant historically. Older Lao people I know in the States are always quick to point out that Hmong “speak good Lao.” They even say this when it’s not the case, for example young Hmong who grew up in the States and have no reason to learn Lao.
I also liked Elli Woollard’s points above. I would like to add to the whole discussion the idea that vocabulary may be operating on two levels. In other words, how much can you understand, versus how much can you actually productively use yourself? Sorry I can’t put a finer point on it, despite having studied with the aforementioned Prof. Bickner, one of the best linguists of the Tai language family. I speak Thai and Lao with reasonable fluency, but the way I speak them sounds different. This is a product of having studied Thai mainly at university, and Lao mainly at home or traveling to see Lao in-laws, etc.
Reg Varney, once PMThaksin is convicted, many others in the elite (his family, colleagues, senior bureaucrats, police and soldiers etc…etc… of many shades and orientations) will come down with him (one sad thing is that many are just caught up in the corruption net, being not brave enough to disagree with orders from up high). PMThaksin will make sure of that (at least those that involve his former allies, present enemies)… That is if ALL CASES investigated reaches the courts – if only a selection makes it, then some people are being left off the hook. Fans of PMThaksin should cry foul then… This may be a huge corruption purge that will set Thailand on a new track – a vibrant rule-of-law which underpins a rejuvenated democracy… It is a big IF though…
i attended a flash mob in London over a year ago. a few hundred of people turned up at a location in central london at a specified time, hit each other with pillows for about 5 minutes then just walked away. was great fun!!! flash mobs can be either a form of activism or can just be random acts of fun. google flash mobs and you will come across lots of varied flash mobs. Here is one that happened in bangkok recently: http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=682
Jon, any kind of political or military adventurism is bound to end in tears. I’m sure teachers, though undervalued and the butt of many jokes in Britain – perhaps the Bash Street Kids and the Banana Bunch are to blame as well as politicians who engage in divide and rule tactics all the time, are doing a sterling job in nation-builing all over the world. They are venerated in Burma next only to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha and one’s parents.
Absolute commitment to non-violence hopefully works for those happily in a state of denial. It’s a lovely idea and I dare say the best of innate human good nature, but violence, legitimised or otherwise, by states or individuals and groups, is all around us.
Western invasions, covert interventions and repression by the Burmese junta are all violence meted out by the state or a group of states. It’s noble and Christian to turn the other cheek, although I dare say it’s the very un-Christian acts of those states – greed, racism and xenophobia as well as bigotry – that we see much in evidence and as a disastrous role model by dint of their material success and their latest venture – globalisation. And their constant seizing the high moral ground only works on the converted, not on many of us on the receiving end in the Third World, just as saying “we live in a classless society” like a mantra only works on the comfortable classes.
So it looks like the Burmese have no choice but to wait for evolutionary processes for what 50 years, a century? One thing I’m absolutely sure of – they ain’t gonna wait for long, outside help or no, and they ain’t just gonna roll over under the military boot.
Burmese monks, Jon, have never shirked from struggle, peaceful or armed, on behalf of the people throughout history. They’ll just stop being monks for the duration.
Furthermore, the contention by the military hobbyists that they are doing something useful while others are not is ridiculous:
1. Helping aggravate longstanding civil wars is not useful.
2. Foreign teachers in rural Thailand may not receive as much money or publicity as military hobbyists in the Karen area do, but in the long-run they may be performing a more valuable function than their military counterparts.
(A specific case: a long-term resident guest house owner who was eeking out a living cheating Japanese tourists by selling them substandard gemstones and illegally taking westerners on adventure tours of Akha villages where they can smoke opium and sleep with all the natives, suddenly is earning $10,000 per month doing contract work in Iraq, buying homes back in Thailand, living high on the hog, does that make what he does, being part of the American war machine in Iraq, more important? the incentives are certainly aligned with making this activity more important, i.e. be a soldier, not a useless teacher, but many would not agree that his windfall makes what he does anymore important…)
Many former Iraq defense-security contractors have settled in Thailand after receiving their Iraq windfalls. Of course, they come to Thailand with so much money and they can buy anything they want (houses, cars, etc..), even a warfare experience in the jungle, where they are led to believe that they are a hero…
Hi Guys,
I have completed some research on fellows and unfortunately it is not favourable. Thomas, you have no authority to act as any form of ambassador or representative for the KNU/KNLA or any Karen organisation in the United States or elsewhere. I have spoken directly with Nerdah today and he has informed me of his concerns about your claims to act as a Karen spokesman in the US. Neither Nerdah, nor any KNU/KNLA official, spokesperson or soldier has ever appointed you as a Karen representative of any form. You are not his spokesman and you are creating all the wrong sort of publicity for the Karen struggle in Burma. You must please desist from this masquerade as you are only damaging the credibility of legitimate Karen organisations in the US and elsewhere. These people are mainly ethnic Karen who have escaped from Burma and by the grace of the US Government have been give a chance to live in freedom in your great country. They are responsibly undertaking dialogue with the US government and lobby groups in order to advance the plight of the Karen and ethic groups as a whole in Burma. Their charity is accountable to public scrutiny. Unfortunately, what you are doing is damaging the Karen movement in the US and in Burma. I do not want to turn this into a personal attack on your credibility, it will achieve no purpose. By all means spread the word of oppression in Burma to the world, especially the Karen, but please do not do it under an assumed mantle.
Jack, your website leaves a lot to be desired. You are simply damaging the credibility of the Karen cause with your activities. By all means promote their cause to the world, but the way you are doing it lacks integrity. I know your history, your secret weapons, etc, etc.. I have managed to find this out from Australia with only a couple of emails and telephone calls. Out of respect for your age and good intentions I won’t put it up here for all to see. I feel that you are misguided in your approach. If a journalist decided to investigate you, you will be severely embarrassed and worse still, which is my main concern, you will damage the hard work already undertaken by ethnic Karen in the US and elsewhere. I implore you to give this serious consideration with regard to your present activities.
Regards,
David
“I read about Mr. Slade in the recent Asian Tribune article.”
1. A PR job for his security services contract firm is the most likely explanation.
2. Kawthoolei, the so-called Karen state, is a malaria infested little stretch of river in the middle of nowhere. (At Manerplaw the malaria infection rate was, I believe, above 90%)
3. Kawthoolei is not a viable state.
4. The Karens in Kawthoolei will eventually have to become part of a larger state called Burma.
5. China is the ultimate arbiter in the region, not a bunch of military hobbyists (not mercenaries because they don’t get paid)
6. What is the Asian Tribune? Looks like a front for a PR organisation to me. Most of the links don’t work. This sort of set up is very easy on the internet.
7. Burmese monks with weapons are no longer monks anymore, by definition.
8. Rich Americans with their defense contracting Iraq spoils should just go home and not attempt to spread their severely warped idea of how the world works elsewhere. It’s well-documented what a failure the Iraq war and attempt to rebuild the state in America’s image under Bremer was.
Juliana: When I use ‘song mai ow’ I am basically referring to the position leading up to the 2006 coup where song mai ow means you don’t want either side (Thaksin side or Sondhi/PAD/Coup side)
see the ”the electorate and the acute state of thai politics” thread in January 2008 on this site for more discussion of the position.
(sorry link not provided because I think the comment gets blocked with the link)
It may be better for one of the ‘academics’ to explain further, as this is all just a hobby to me.
To Mr. Slade and the rest of you. It is individuals like yourself, undressing Peter to dress Paul which contribute to the cycle of voilence.
Everyone here seems to just be here to publicly pat themselves on the back. But I fear it is this line of thinking which will only lead to more civilain deaths.
If that is what you call freedom, than I am just lost for words.
It is this type of dialogue which makes me want to give up hope for the philosphy of non-voilence.
Dear Jack Slade: Thanks for you detailed comments, which do not bother me because I have been involved with Burma for many years and know that everyone dealing with it is frustrated. That is the main reason there are so many crazy ideas out there. In my view trying to help Burma by aiding the Karen insurgents is one of them. This approach started during British rule, largely because many of the Karen are Christian and thus much easier to deal with than ethnic Burmans, who are Buddhist and xenophobic. As a result the British promised the Karen and other groups that they would never be forced to live in a Burmese dominated Burma following independence, and then broke their promise, leaving a legacy of insurgency by minority groups which has persisted since then. The only way to change this is to work toward creating a more moderate leadership in Burma proper. Helping the Karen insurgency just fuels the xenophobia and anti-foreign suspicions of the miliary leadership, and many other Burmese. We (my wife, who is Cambodian, and I) are channeling our assistance to Burma through Burmese friends inside the country. This is not difficult to do since many Burmese and friends of Burma living in the US and elsewhere outside the country have set up mechanisms for channeling assistance to cyclone victims. I too want to see a peaceful and prosperous Burma but based on long experience there do no believe that promoting insurgency and revolution is the way to achieve that goal. To be successful there must be a long slow process of evolution toward a more democratic society. What the outside world has been doing for the past 20 years in isolating Burma is just retarding this sort of change. In my view Burma has been ill-served both by its leaders and by many of those foreigners who claim to be providing assistance but are actually just reinforcing the divisions which led to the situation we now face. Until more people understand that nothing much will change in Burma, unless the situation gets worse. I doubt that you will find these ideas very persuasive but I just ask that you consider what positive results the approach taken by the international community for the past twenty years has produced. There are none.
What is ‘sorng/song mai aow’ ??? I thought it must have been an idiom, but I’ve asked a whole lot of Thais & they have no idea. It comes up all the time in NM. Will someone please explain.
Obviously the literal translation is ‘don’t want 2’ – does it refer to those who only want the King, and not the government; or vice-versa? Or is it something else?
“I don’t mean to minimize Hanson’s linguistic accomplishments, which are certainly far beyond mine, I would point out that in the Kachin context, he wasn’t exceptional. In the area north of Lashio, it isn’t uncommon for individuals to speak at least four different languages: Burmese, Shan, Chinese, and Jinghpaw.”
It’s a little different though to thoroughly document a language, in the form of a dictionary, and then translate the bible into it. Seems more difficult, than just learning the language.
“What possibilities were conjured up by turning non-literate societies in to literate ones?”
Solidarity?
For the Catholics, the bible interpreted through the intermediation of priests and for the protestants direct reading of the bible, but over long stretched of time the effect may be about the same, people of the book, a textual community.
In the two groups that I had the most friends in, the Chin in Burma (American Protestant) and the Akha in Maesai-Kengtung (Catholic), the religion certainly seemed to give them an identity they were comfortable with. For instance, if the Chin people I knew heard of another Chin was in trouble or having a problem, they would run to the rescue, go and see what they could do to help. The Catholic Akha of Kengtung also seem to be a pretty together – tight community. The Christmas festival in Kengtung is the big yearly event. Both groups acquired their Christian identities so long ago that it has now become part of the very identity of the community.
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Volunteering to fight in Burma
By a Correspondent
Karen State, Burma
Soldiers of the Karen National Liberation Army have wrested control of substantial tracts of land within Burma’s Karen State and are building new villages so displaced people can return home.
Many of the areas were once densely populated by Karen farmers, but their homes and farms were razed in seek-and-destroy missions by troops of the ruling military regime, the State Peace and Development Council.
The KNLA soldiers have planted vast tracts of corn, to this point they expect a coming crop of 10,000 tonnes of cobs that will be sold across the border in Thailand to buy rice and build homes for anyone displaced by decades of fighting to return home.
At a tiny village, equipped with a medical clinic and a school, solar panels supply power for lighting and the KNLA soldiers have constructed secure water infrastructure.
On a tour of the areas under development, Colonel Nerdah, a KNLA commander, said it was time to rethink the refugee camps strung out along the Thai border and how displaced people could realistically be helped to come home.
“We must build the economy and provide security,” he said of trying to orchestrate a future for people who have suffered trauma so great they have been content to languish in refugee camps on Thai territory and hope for relocation to a third country.
“We must first recognise ourselves as Karen without waiting for anyone else to recognise us,” he said.
“The SPDC is stubborn, is backed by China and it is not going to give in.
“We must first help the people with health care and schooling.
“Then, when we have an economy again and the Burmese junta is unable to cross our demarcation lines, people will begin to recognise us,” he said.
Colonel Nerdah then explained the theory behind the new tactics.
The KNLA had finally won back portions of the state after crippling SPDC offensives beginning in earnest in 1984 that forced more than 150,000 people into Thai refugee camps.
Now they had to repopulate, he said.
“Karen State must be controlled by occupation,” he said.
“Now we say to people, ‘come home, you have your country and we can provide security’,” he said.
As we walked through one of the newly-established villages, one of three visited on our tour, he described the people living and working the substantial farms there as the true heroes of the Karen nation.
“These are really brave people who want to stay in their homeland,” he said.
“You know everyday I sit and think: How to end this war?
“I think perhaps one day when the fighting is over I might like to sit in the shade and have a cold beer on a hot day. I think that first sip would probably taste so good.”
Colonel Nerdah is 42 years old and has not yet allowed himself that luxury because the liberation of his people is not complete.
He laughs when asked about Cyclone Nargis.
“You know the enemy only have 70 per cent of their air force left and who knows what is left of the navy.
“The SPDC soldiers are demoralised, they don’t want to leave base camp anymore and they have been banned from listening to the BBC so they don’t get news of what is happening.”
“They are paid poorly and their families are not taken care of back home.”
It is a critical time for this country’s future.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
It’s Pado Mahn Sha, not Prado.
And I suggest you all pull your heads in.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Some of you I’m sure are aware of the siege of Insein in 1949 when the besieged Socialist government of U Nu was dubbed the Rangoon government, and Naw Seng’s little escapade when his Kachin outfit was sent to fight the KNDO/KNU and he ended up joining them and hijacking a plane from Meiktila to Maymyo over 500 miles north of Rangoon in a daring exploit. But of course no ethnic rebellion, not just the Karen, on their own will ever topple the government, and let’s not forget that 17 insurgent armies were arrayed against the government at one stage of the conflict.
Disunity has plagued the myriad opponents of the government, dubbed multicoloured insurgents in the early days. Unless they all team up with the majority Burman opposition, national reconciliation and national self-determination will remain a pipe dream.
The Tatmadaw has grown too big to ensure absolute loyalty to the junta. The officer class treats the troops badly. Many units are left to forage for themselves. They are mostly Buddhists and impacted by both the cyclone and September 2007. The Burman majority has been treated no differently from the minorities once they started challenging the junta’s legitimacy and authority. It’s high time the minorities wised up and not repeat the same costly mistakes of the last 60 years.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
John F., When has “constructive dialogue” been tried by western countries? They have rejected this since 1988 despite repeated arguments by the ASEAN nations and other Asian countries that this was the only reasonable approach. In any case it does not have to be dialogue with the generals. The presence of more western organizations of all type, governmental and non-governmental, as well as tourists, in Burma would open doors to the outside world and help to stimulate gradual change. Instead the international community somehow thinks that isolating Burma will have a beneficial effect. Isolation is what the ruling generals want so this just plays into their hands, especially in a natural resource rich country which is self sufficient in basic necessities. In my view this sort of approach represents a poverty of imaginative thinking and a resort to tired old methods that have never worked well anywhere.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Opinions vary widely on how to best help the Karens and Burmese.
One camp would take the tack of benign neglect, leaving the people of Burma to their fate, to sort things out on their own. That doesn’t appear to be working too well.
Another group wants to engage the Burmese junta in what they call “constructive dialogue”. They feel that talking to the generals will bring about some sort of change. This has been tried repeatedly, and has gotten nowhere.
Then we have the group that Jonfernquest refers to as “military hobbyists”.
While they are incapable of turning the tide, their numbers being too small, they do provide the resistance with the means to defend themselves a little bit better.
The tatmadaw cannot be beaten on the battlefield by the small numbers arrayed against them. They have the second largest army in that part of Asia. But they can be bloodied enough to give them pause.
No one in their right mind expects the KNLA or any of the other dissident groups to ride into Rangoon in triumph, ala the Northern Alliance in Kabul.
But if they can resist enough, just perhaps they might be able to exist as a people on the Thai border, living their lives in peace, and determining their own fate.
I won’t pretend to have the answer. This conflict began before I was even born, and it will most probably continue after I’ve exited this mortal coil.
But I do know that someone has to try. You can’t just wring your hands and say, “It’s too hard. Let’s not get involved.”
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
jonfernquest,
Thank You, I couldn’t agree more with what you said.
Except what you say about Asian Tribune. I have been reading this online magazine for years and have always found it to be reliable, informative, dependable and worth taking note when they report something like that. If you read the article carefully, there appears to be what I would certainly call an “insinuation” that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to US govt/military involvement there.
I do hope this is just a case of an article written out of context, which happens. But my attention is still grabbed.
Your right, the idea that the Karen could bring down the junta to me seems absurd, despite what logic I’ve heard here.
Though I certainly defend their right to defend themselves, and I am glad they have had help in training, as they have had for years and years.
If ever an attempt by the Karen to bring down the junta was to take place, as was suggest here, it would not be a war between the Karen and the junta. The junta would bring everyone in the mix, and up to hundreds of thousands of innocent people would be killed.
Though looking at a map, it is easy to see a “military mind’s” logic to such a venture, esp. considering Shan is not too far way, and both are in proximity to Naypiydaw. Which gives me greater concern that military minds might be busy, as you say, considering themselves and their ideas to be of greater importance than Teachers.
Ola Hanson from the archive on vocabulary size
This an interesting and refreshing thread. I very much agree with Aiontay’s point above about the linguistic “cosmopolitanism” of mainland Southeast Asia, especially minorities. I remember Prof. Robert Bickner saying in a class I took with him on Thai linguistics that it’s one of the most linguistically complex areas of the world besides the American plains before the arrival of Europeans. This complexity very much seems to be a part of collective memory, even among ethnic groups that are domninant historically. Older Lao people I know in the States are always quick to point out that Hmong “speak good Lao.” They even say this when it’s not the case, for example young Hmong who grew up in the States and have no reason to learn Lao.
I also liked Elli Woollard’s points above. I would like to add to the whole discussion the idea that vocabulary may be operating on two levels. In other words, how much can you understand, versus how much can you actually productively use yourself? Sorry I can’t put a finer point on it, despite having studied with the aforementioned Prof. Bickner, one of the best linguists of the Tai language family. I speak Thai and Lao with reasonable fluency, but the way I speak them sounds different. This is a product of having studied Thai mainly at university, and Lao mainly at home or traveling to see Lao in-laws, etc.
“Samak’s government has no ability to shape public opinion”
Reg Varney, once PMThaksin is convicted, many others in the elite (his family, colleagues, senior bureaucrats, police and soldiers etc…etc… of many shades and orientations) will come down with him (one sad thing is that many are just caught up in the corruption net, being not brave enough to disagree with orders from up high). PMThaksin will make sure of that (at least those that involve his former allies, present enemies)… That is if ALL CASES investigated reaches the courts – if only a selection makes it, then some people are being left off the hook. Fans of PMThaksin should cry foul then… This may be a huge corruption purge that will set Thailand on a new track – a vibrant rule-of-law which underpins a rejuvenated democracy… It is a big IF though…
Burma gets a flash mob
i attended a flash mob in London over a year ago. a few hundred of people turned up at a location in central london at a specified time, hit each other with pillows for about 5 minutes then just walked away. was great fun!!! flash mobs can be either a form of activism or can just be random acts of fun. google flash mobs and you will come across lots of varied flash mobs. Here is one that happened in bangkok recently: http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=682
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Jon, any kind of political or military adventurism is bound to end in tears. I’m sure teachers, though undervalued and the butt of many jokes in Britain – perhaps the Bash Street Kids and the Banana Bunch are to blame as well as politicians who engage in divide and rule tactics all the time, are doing a sterling job in nation-builing all over the world. They are venerated in Burma next only to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha and one’s parents.
Absolute commitment to non-violence hopefully works for those happily in a state of denial. It’s a lovely idea and I dare say the best of innate human good nature, but violence, legitimised or otherwise, by states or individuals and groups, is all around us.
Western invasions, covert interventions and repression by the Burmese junta are all violence meted out by the state or a group of states. It’s noble and Christian to turn the other cheek, although I dare say it’s the very un-Christian acts of those states – greed, racism and xenophobia as well as bigotry – that we see much in evidence and as a disastrous role model by dint of their material success and their latest venture – globalisation. And their constant seizing the high moral ground only works on the converted, not on many of us on the receiving end in the Third World, just as saying “we live in a classless society” like a mantra only works on the comfortable classes.
So it looks like the Burmese have no choice but to wait for evolutionary processes for what 50 years, a century? One thing I’m absolutely sure of – they ain’t gonna wait for long, outside help or no, and they ain’t just gonna roll over under the military boot.
Burmese monks, Jon, have never shirked from struggle, peaceful or armed, on behalf of the people throughout history. They’ll just stop being monks for the duration.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Furthermore, the contention by the military hobbyists that they are doing something useful while others are not is ridiculous:
1. Helping aggravate longstanding civil wars is not useful.
2. Foreign teachers in rural Thailand may not receive as much money or publicity as military hobbyists in the Karen area do, but in the long-run they may be performing a more valuable function than their military counterparts.
(A specific case: a long-term resident guest house owner who was eeking out a living cheating Japanese tourists by selling them substandard gemstones and illegally taking westerners on adventure tours of Akha villages where they can smoke opium and sleep with all the natives, suddenly is earning $10,000 per month doing contract work in Iraq, buying homes back in Thailand, living high on the hog, does that make what he does, being part of the American war machine in Iraq, more important? the incentives are certainly aligned with making this activity more important, i.e. be a soldier, not a useless teacher, but many would not agree that his windfall makes what he does anymore important…)
Many former Iraq defense-security contractors have settled in Thailand after receiving their Iraq windfalls. Of course, they come to Thailand with so much money and they can buy anything they want (houses, cars, etc..), even a warfare experience in the jungle, where they are led to believe that they are a hero…
Volunteering to fight in Burma
THOMAS BLEMMINg AND JACK SLADE
Hi Guys,
I have completed some research on fellows and unfortunately it is not favourable. Thomas, you have no authority to act as any form of ambassador or representative for the KNU/KNLA or any Karen organisation in the United States or elsewhere. I have spoken directly with Nerdah today and he has informed me of his concerns about your claims to act as a Karen spokesman in the US. Neither Nerdah, nor any KNU/KNLA official, spokesperson or soldier has ever appointed you as a Karen representative of any form. You are not his spokesman and you are creating all the wrong sort of publicity for the Karen struggle in Burma. You must please desist from this masquerade as you are only damaging the credibility of legitimate Karen organisations in the US and elsewhere. These people are mainly ethnic Karen who have escaped from Burma and by the grace of the US Government have been give a chance to live in freedom in your great country. They are responsibly undertaking dialogue with the US government and lobby groups in order to advance the plight of the Karen and ethic groups as a whole in Burma. Their charity is accountable to public scrutiny. Unfortunately, what you are doing is damaging the Karen movement in the US and in Burma. I do not want to turn this into a personal attack on your credibility, it will achieve no purpose. By all means spread the word of oppression in Burma to the world, especially the Karen, but please do not do it under an assumed mantle.
Jack, your website leaves a lot to be desired. You are simply damaging the credibility of the Karen cause with your activities. By all means promote their cause to the world, but the way you are doing it lacks integrity. I know your history, your secret weapons, etc, etc.. I have managed to find this out from Australia with only a couple of emails and telephone calls. Out of respect for your age and good intentions I won’t put it up here for all to see. I feel that you are misguided in your approach. If a journalist decided to investigate you, you will be severely embarrassed and worse still, which is my main concern, you will damage the hard work already undertaken by ethnic Karen in the US and elsewhere. I implore you to give this serious consideration with regard to your present activities.
Regards,
David
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
“I read about Mr. Slade in the recent Asian Tribune article.”
1. A PR job for his security services contract firm is the most likely explanation.
2. Kawthoolei, the so-called Karen state, is a malaria infested little stretch of river in the middle of nowhere. (At Manerplaw the malaria infection rate was, I believe, above 90%)
3. Kawthoolei is not a viable state.
4. The Karens in Kawthoolei will eventually have to become part of a larger state called Burma.
5. China is the ultimate arbiter in the region, not a bunch of military hobbyists (not mercenaries because they don’t get paid)
6. What is the Asian Tribune? Looks like a front for a PR organisation to me. Most of the links don’t work. This sort of set up is very easy on the internet.
7. Burmese monks with weapons are no longer monks anymore, by definition.
8. Rich Americans with their defense contracting Iraq spoils should just go home and not attempt to spread their severely warped idea of how the world works elsewhere. It’s well-documented what a failure the Iraq war and attempt to rebuild the state in America’s image under Bremer was.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
War Mongers,
“One man’s opinion is still an opinion, however meaningless it may be” (hopefully you are a woman)
Leave the PA(S)D alone!
Juliana: When I use ‘song mai ow’ I am basically referring to the position leading up to the 2006 coup where song mai ow means you don’t want either side (Thaksin side or Sondhi/PAD/Coup side)
see the ”the electorate and the acute state of thai politics” thread in January 2008 on this site for more discussion of the position.
(sorry link not provided because I think the comment gets blocked with the link)
It may be better for one of the ‘academics’ to explain further, as this is all just a hobby to me.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
A philosophy of non-violence is nice – until the wolf is at the door.
I just read that Burmese monks are now looking for weapons to protect themselves with.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
To Mr. Slade and the rest of you. It is individuals like yourself, undressing Peter to dress Paul which contribute to the cycle of voilence.
Everyone here seems to just be here to publicly pat themselves on the back. But I fear it is this line of thinking which will only lead to more civilain deaths.
If that is what you call freedom, than I am just lost for words.
It is this type of dialogue which makes me want to give up hope for the philosphy of non-voilence.
I read about Mr. Slade in the recent Asian Tribune article
It’s a sad day.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Dear Jack Slade: Thanks for you detailed comments, which do not bother me because I have been involved with Burma for many years and know that everyone dealing with it is frustrated. That is the main reason there are so many crazy ideas out there. In my view trying to help Burma by aiding the Karen insurgents is one of them. This approach started during British rule, largely because many of the Karen are Christian and thus much easier to deal with than ethnic Burmans, who are Buddhist and xenophobic. As a result the British promised the Karen and other groups that they would never be forced to live in a Burmese dominated Burma following independence, and then broke their promise, leaving a legacy of insurgency by minority groups which has persisted since then. The only way to change this is to work toward creating a more moderate leadership in Burma proper. Helping the Karen insurgency just fuels the xenophobia and anti-foreign suspicions of the miliary leadership, and many other Burmese. We (my wife, who is Cambodian, and I) are channeling our assistance to Burma through Burmese friends inside the country. This is not difficult to do since many Burmese and friends of Burma living in the US and elsewhere outside the country have set up mechanisms for channeling assistance to cyclone victims. I too want to see a peaceful and prosperous Burma but based on long experience there do no believe that promoting insurgency and revolution is the way to achieve that goal. To be successful there must be a long slow process of evolution toward a more democratic society. What the outside world has been doing for the past 20 years in isolating Burma is just retarding this sort of change. In my view Burma has been ill-served both by its leaders and by many of those foreigners who claim to be providing assistance but are actually just reinforcing the divisions which led to the situation we now face. Until more people understand that nothing much will change in Burma, unless the situation gets worse. I doubt that you will find these ideas very persuasive but I just ask that you consider what positive results the approach taken by the international community for the past twenty years has produced. There are none.
Leave the PA(S)D alone!
What is ‘sorng/song mai aow’ ??? I thought it must have been an idiom, but I’ve asked a whole lot of Thais & they have no idea. It comes up all the time in NM. Will someone please explain.
Obviously the literal translation is ‘don’t want 2’ – does it refer to those who only want the King, and not the government; or vice-versa? Or is it something else?
Please put me out of my misery.
Ola Hanson from the archive on vocabulary size
“I don’t mean to minimize Hanson’s linguistic accomplishments, which are certainly far beyond mine, I would point out that in the Kachin context, he wasn’t exceptional. In the area north of Lashio, it isn’t uncommon for individuals to speak at least four different languages: Burmese, Shan, Chinese, and Jinghpaw.”
It’s a little different though to thoroughly document a language, in the form of a dictionary, and then translate the bible into it. Seems more difficult, than just learning the language.
“What possibilities were conjured up by turning non-literate societies in to literate ones?”
Solidarity?
For the Catholics, the bible interpreted through the intermediation of priests and for the protestants direct reading of the bible, but over long stretched of time the effect may be about the same, people of the book, a textual community.
In the two groups that I had the most friends in, the Chin in Burma (American Protestant) and the Akha in Maesai-Kengtung (Catholic), the religion certainly seemed to give them an identity they were comfortable with. For instance, if the Chin people I knew heard of another Chin was in trouble or having a problem, they would run to the rescue, go and see what they could do to help. The Catholic Akha of Kengtung also seem to be a pretty together – tight community. The Christmas festival in Kengtung is the big yearly event. Both groups acquired their Christian identities so long ago that it has now become part of the very identity of the community.