I heard the show, Jonathan did no LM that night but Jakrapob if not guilty is definitely in the dark grey areas, his patraonage was clearly royal patronage and he made numerous linking references to various kings throughout Thai history.
You don’t need a degree in political science to understand that Jakrapob broke sacred taboos and challenged the system of democracy with a monarch – a no no in Thai society!
The problem is not with the insitutions of kingship, it’s with the way that some people use them.
And that includes the very family bestowed with that position. Or are you saying they are perfect and superhuman? That is why we do need valid criticism and no more LM, in order to fix it at the institutional level.
Otherwise, what is your recommendation for the next course of action? Its pretty clear that the old guys at the top aren’t/haven’t been/will not be doing anything to stop these abusers.
I work in one of the public university in Thailand. I’m not against the rating system.
But the Ministry of Education rating system is very inaccurate in measuring academic competency. Please read carefully how they compute the rating, and you’ll know.
They put the business schools and music department in the social science section (they do rating at faculty/department level as well).
As they cannot find much data on academic competitiveness, the rating was based mostly on 3 indicators: teacher/student ratio, funding, and internationality.
They include the outliers, and the result jump with the outlier. For example, all social sciecne departments get roughly the same score, with a few exceptional good performers such as; 1) the Music Department at Mahiol (due to a very low teacher/student ratio); 2) some departments that just build a new site and received a huge amount of funding from fundraising.
All law faculties (including Chula and Thammasat) received a very low rating, as they normally have a large classroom size. Does this mean their education is worse than the music department?
One very interesting result is, the univeristy with a very high score on internationality is Ubonrachthani University, as they get a lot of students from Laos. Nothing against the Laos, but does this reflect a better quality of education?
And lastly, the rating system was based on the data that all the academic department compiled and computed to the Ministry of Education. The Ministry of Education does not collect any data, they just use a ready made data. From who? those who are rated.
Finally, I don’t think the private universities are on the list. They are not rated.
I’m not against the rating system. But I’m against a “stupid” rating system, which do more harm than good. The evil is in details. Please don’t take it at the face value.
Brilliant expressionist paintings and the commentaries are great too.
I think your work is more profound than those books about the Bangkok bar scene that you refer to frequently. They’re cheap and pulpy, and don’t capture the tragedy of so-called “open-ended prostitution.”
Take for instance, this case last week of a Japanese guy with some live in sex trade worker who wouldn’t stop working, then he’d beat her, when she slept with other guys, but she’d come back, because that is her job, to sleep with people for money, then finally she gets her final beating, and she’s dead, out of shear horror at what he’s done, he decides on the spur of the moment to off himself too, and jumps off the balcony of his apartment (see photo in Nation blog link below). I’ve seen worse than this, including murder, sometimes after 20 years of living together. Easy come, easy go.
Sidh: “…your experiences of public university system being part of it is quite **often** ruled by self-righteous Phu-yais.”
Out in the provinces I think you have a Heart of Darkness effect. Total power over the rural farm folk, totally corrupting.
Andrew Walker: “Let’s hope this brave voice is not silenced by a lèse majesté charge!”
I think this statement is confused. Some puu yais might misuse the power and legitimacy they get from royal ceremonies and the institutions of monarchy, but that is the puu yai‘s problem, not acting in a way so as to honour their monarch. Like those taking bribes or cheating people.
Take the example of the recently deceased HRH Princess Galyani who taught French literature at Thammasat, was a great lover of classical music, and a patron and supporter of the Siam Society. Are people really emulating her wonderful example to do her honour? I see people who received prestige and status from her visits, but acting to motivate and interest people in the fine examples of French literature, classical music, and Thai literature/history that she loved and promoted?
The problem is not with the insitutions of kingship, it’s with the way that some people use them.
Gordon young visited Banpanghoytak in Maetang distict last year -2007,according to one of the oldest residents who knew him in 1953 when Gordon faciltated the movement from Burma of a lahu tribe (initially 14 people) who travelled from Mae Sai to this area in a crowded small bus. Gordon knew that a tea ‘factory’ was being set up and saw that there was a sustainable future for a tribe that now numbers around 400 people. I think he lives in California and I believe that his younger brother,Bill,still lives in Chiang mai today. He is also a fluent lahu speaker and visited by many lahu who still remember the family and the influence of someone who has been reffered to as ‘king of the Lahu’.
I live in the village with my Lahu wife and have been interested in trying to ‘track’ some of the history of the village.
These would be high frequency search words at many an internet cafe, as I remember. You used to be able to see the search words that previous users had used.
Brilliant expressionist paintings and commentaries. Only one comment, Thailand’s bar scene is probably inhabited more by middle class insurance or shoe salesmen than Russian gangsters and LA real estate moguls, closer to the typical noir character found in James Cain novels, made into the first noir films, like Mildred Pierce, the Postman Only Rings Twice, etc.
Here’s recent real life noir over at the nation blog (Japanese in habit of beating his “open ended prostitution” live in “companion” when he discovered she was sleeping with other men, then finally beats her to death, and jumps off the balcony to his death). A Japanese guy told me about another Japanese guy who hired the police for 150,000 baht to demolish the building that he built for his wife. Or this terrifying item today:
Man with condom on found bitten to death by snake
Ayutthaya – A body of a 40-year-old man with a cobra carcass in his head was found on a roadside here Sunday morning.
An preliminary autopsy also found that Wiroj Banlen, 40, was wearing a condom although he was putting on his trousers. No semen was found inside the condom.
His body was found on the side of a dirt road in Tambon Lamsai of Ayutthaya’s Wangnoi district at 7 am.
He was bitten several times by the snake on his right leg and on his cheeks.
His hands were clenching the dead cobra, whose body was bitten several times especially on its stomach.
The preliminary autopsy found scales of the snake in his mouth.
His body was sent for a full autopsy at a hospital.
Sidh S. I think that you raise an interesting point when you use the term “Asian Confucian paternalism”. Like the Asian Values debate, where LKY assumed that all of Asia was Chinese-Confucianist, you seem to make similar assumptions. This is interesting because maybe we have to look at how Chinese and perhaps Confucianist the “Thai” elite really is. My guess is that a lot of the current political debate is not about rural-urban but about rootless Sino-Thais and their identity politics vs. ethnic Thais and their lack of identity issues. I realize that this rather unthoughtout comment raises an issue of race, but increasingly I feel that there is a need to reconsider this in the Thai context. I’d be interested in your thoughts and those of other NM contributors, even if this is off-topic for this thread.
[…] several Prawes W. appearance and comments. Royal Hegemony by Chanida Chirbundid (see review at New Mandala: ) will shed some light to readers (who might already know the “network” connection) […]
On your catchy title and the hope for some traffic via google, there is maybe an occasion for ancient commentary (meaning from the 1990s). I was in the north on and off, sometimes in Chiangmai where a bunch of tourists come through. They are very picky about who they are and are not. Tourists had a bad rep among the snobs who thought they themselves were different. Some were mere tourists, others were travelers. This can be traced back in British (and other) travel literature, and some of the luminaries are very good writers. But the nineties were a time of name-calling anxieties, too. Once I had an extended conversation with some western man who really wanted to make sure I did not for a second imagine that he was a sex tourist. “No, I’m a sex traveller.”
I agree Reg Varney, I implied modern urban life – regardless of wealth. The sensitivity, however, is due to politics than anything else and every side of politics has over-played the LM card (except PMSurayud’s government who didn’t slap PMThaksin with one – even with GenSonthi’s accusations).
I agree with Khun Jop’s notion with HMK as the “father” of the people – so that makes it 2 to 3 for your survey and your friends win by a vote. If you conduct your survey in NM, then there’s a large possibility that they’ll be only our two votes! I think it will likely be closer if you surveyed randomly on the streets of Bangkok.
Or it may just be Asian Confucian paternalism (and phrases like “the UN is not my father” doesn’t quite have its effects in a Western context)? At the end of day, I think it is just different realities and that is only natural…
I can hardly see how defending Aphisit (didn’t he attack Jakrapob?) from patronizing attacks by Samak is taking on the patronage system. “Brave” would be criticizing both of them.
Thank you, Andrew Walker, for the seven threats to Thailand. I agree with you entirely. Actually, my friends of the like mind and I have talked about these for many years, and hope to effect some changes where we can. And now comes this demonstration at Makhawan Bridge. Let us hope that those five iguanas who lead the demonstration will see light. They are not an alliance for democracy, but rather an alliance for secret money. We can see Iguana Suriyasai, for example, acts quite hilariously because the fund is ample for him, whose motto seems to be “Fund and fight”. His conduct confirms completely Walker’s remarks.
Simon: He makes a huge leap. He narrows the patronage system to only the monarchy. Jakrapob talked about how he gained from the patronage system as his father was an airline pilot. Why not insert airline pilots there and say patronage system=airline pilots?
Professor Anan does not make assumptions, he applies linguistics to help analyse Jakrapob’s intentions. The word substitution is simply an additional test to see how the word monarchy would fit based or root analysis combined with context analysis simplified by his mathematical formula that conclusively cracks “The Jakrapob Code”.
Frank: The documentary was on the nation-wide channel “Arte”, but it might originally have been French. I should have watched it in the first week of May. Generally, the section on Thailand treated her monarchy in a very positive light. Nevertheless, it could be broadcast in Thailand only with some changes, because the feature also included some critical comments on the heir.
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Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
I heard the show, Jonathan did no LM that night but Jakrapob if not guilty is definitely in the dark grey areas, his patraonage was clearly royal patronage and he made numerous linking references to various kings throughout Thai history.
You don’t need a degree in political science to understand that Jakrapob broke sacred taboos and challenged the system of democracy with a monarch – a no no in Thai society!
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
The problem is not with the insitutions of kingship, it’s with the way that some people use them.
And that includes the very family bestowed with that position. Or are you saying they are perfect and superhuman? That is why we do need valid criticism and no more LM, in order to fix it at the institutional level.
Otherwise, what is your recommendation for the next course of action? Its pretty clear that the old guys at the top aren’t/haven’t been/will not be doing anything to stop these abusers.
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Sidh,
I work in one of the public university in Thailand. I’m not against the rating system.
But the Ministry of Education rating system is very inaccurate in measuring academic competency. Please read carefully how they compute the rating, and you’ll know.
They put the business schools and music department in the social science section (they do rating at faculty/department level as well).
As they cannot find much data on academic competitiveness, the rating was based mostly on 3 indicators: teacher/student ratio, funding, and internationality.
They include the outliers, and the result jump with the outlier. For example, all social sciecne departments get roughly the same score, with a few exceptional good performers such as; 1) the Music Department at Mahiol (due to a very low teacher/student ratio); 2) some departments that just build a new site and received a huge amount of funding from fundraising.
All law faculties (including Chula and Thammasat) received a very low rating, as they normally have a large classroom size. Does this mean their education is worse than the music department?
One very interesting result is, the univeristy with a very high score on internationality is Ubonrachthani University, as they get a lot of students from Laos. Nothing against the Laos, but does this reflect a better quality of education?
And lastly, the rating system was based on the data that all the academic department compiled and computed to the Ministry of Education. The Ministry of Education does not collect any data, they just use a ready made data. From who? those who are rated.
Finally, I don’t think the private universities are on the list. They are not rated.
I’m not against the rating system. But I’m against a “stupid” rating system, which do more harm than good. The evil is in details. Please don’t take it at the face value.
“Australian ladyboy sex tourist”
Brilliant expressionist paintings and the commentaries are great too.
I think your work is more profound than those books about the Bangkok bar scene that you refer to frequently. They’re cheap and pulpy, and don’t capture the tragedy of so-called “open-ended prostitution.”
Take for instance, this case last week of a Japanese guy with some live in sex trade worker who wouldn’t stop working, then he’d beat her, when she slept with other guys, but she’d come back, because that is her job, to sleep with people for money, then finally she gets her final beating, and she’s dead, out of shear horror at what he’s done, he decides on the spur of the moment to off himself too, and jumps off the balcony of his apartment (see photo in Nation blog link below). I’ve seen worse than this, including murder, sometimes after 20 years of living together. Easy come, easy go.
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/Real/2008/05/25/entry-1
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Sidh: “…your experiences of public university system being part of it is quite **often** ruled by self-righteous Phu-yais.”
Out in the provinces I think you have a Heart of Darkness effect. Total power over the rural farm folk, totally corrupting.
Andrew Walker: “Let’s hope this brave voice is not silenced by a lèse majesté charge!”
I think this statement is confused. Some puu yais might misuse the power and legitimacy they get from royal ceremonies and the institutions of monarchy, but that is the puu yai‘s problem, not acting in a way so as to honour their monarch. Like those taking bribes or cheating people.
Take the example of the recently deceased HRH Princess Galyani who taught French literature at Thammasat, was a great lover of classical music, and a patron and supporter of the Siam Society. Are people really emulating her wonderful example to do her honour? I see people who received prestige and status from her visits, but acting to motivate and interest people in the fine examples of French literature, classical music, and Thai literature/history that she loved and promoted?
The problem is not with the insitutions of kingship, it’s with the way that some people use them.
From the archives: Gordon Young
Gordon young visited Banpanghoytak in Maetang distict last year -2007,according to one of the oldest residents who knew him in 1953 when Gordon faciltated the movement from Burma of a lahu tribe (initially 14 people) who travelled from Mae Sai to this area in a crowded small bus. Gordon knew that a tea ‘factory’ was being set up and saw that there was a sustainable future for a tribe that now numbers around 400 people. I think he lives in California and I believe that his younger brother,Bill,still lives in Chiang mai today. He is also a fluent lahu speaker and visited by many lahu who still remember the family and the influence of someone who has been reffered to as ‘king of the Lahu’.
I live in the village with my Lahu wife and have been interested in trying to ‘track’ some of the history of the village.
“Australian ladyboy sex tourist”
“Australian ladyboy sex tourist”
These would be high frequency search words at many an internet cafe, as I remember. You used to be able to see the search words that previous users had used.
Brilliant expressionist paintings and commentaries. Only one comment, Thailand’s bar scene is probably inhabited more by middle class insurance or shoe salesmen than Russian gangsters and LA real estate moguls, closer to the typical noir character found in James Cain novels, made into the first noir films, like Mildred Pierce, the Postman Only Rings Twice, etc.
Here’s recent real life noir over at the nation blog (Japanese in habit of beating his “open ended prostitution” live in “companion” when he discovered she was sleeping with other men, then finally beats her to death, and jumps off the balcony to his death). A Japanese guy told me about another Japanese guy who hired the police for 150,000 baht to demolish the building that he built for his wife. Or this terrifying item today:
Man with condom on found bitten to death by snake
Ayutthaya – A body of a 40-year-old man with a cobra carcass in his head was found on a roadside here Sunday morning.
An preliminary autopsy also found that Wiroj Banlen, 40, was wearing a condom although he was putting on his trousers. No semen was found inside the condom.
His body was found on the side of a dirt road in Tambon Lamsai of Ayutthaya’s Wangnoi district at 7 am.
He was bitten several times by the snake on his right leg and on his cheeks.
His hands were clenching the dead cobra, whose body was bitten several times especially on its stomach.
The preliminary autopsy found scales of the snake in his mouth.
His body was sent for a full autopsy at a hospital.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30075013
There’s plenty of noir in Thailand.
Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
Sidh S. I think that you raise an interesting point when you use the term “Asian Confucian paternalism”. Like the Asian Values debate, where LKY assumed that all of Asia was Chinese-Confucianist, you seem to make similar assumptions. This is interesting because maybe we have to look at how Chinese and perhaps Confucianist the “Thai” elite really is. My guess is that a lot of the current political debate is not about rural-urban but about rootless Sino-Thais and their identity politics vs. ethnic Thais and their lack of identity issues. I realize that this rather unthoughtout comment raises an issue of race, but increasingly I feel that there is a need to reconsider this in the Thai context. I’d be interested in your thoughts and those of other NM contributors, even if this is off-topic for this thread.
Royal hegemony
[…] several Prawes W. appearance and comments. Royal Hegemony by Chanida Chirbundid (see review at New Mandala: ) will shed some light to readers (who might already know the “network” connection) […]
“Australian ladyboy sex tourist”
On your catchy title and the hope for some traffic via google, there is maybe an occasion for ancient commentary (meaning from the 1990s). I was in the north on and off, sometimes in Chiangmai where a bunch of tourists come through. They are very picky about who they are and are not. Tourists had a bad rep among the snobs who thought they themselves were different. Some were mere tourists, others were travelers. This can be traced back in British (and other) travel literature, and some of the luminaries are very good writers. But the nineties were a time of name-calling anxieties, too. Once I had an extended conversation with some western man who really wanted to make sure I did not for a second imagine that he was a sex tourist. “No, I’m a sex traveller.”
Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
I agree Reg Varney, I implied modern urban life – regardless of wealth. The sensitivity, however, is due to politics than anything else and every side of politics has over-played the LM card (except PMSurayud’s government who didn’t slap PMThaksin with one – even with GenSonthi’s accusations).
I agree with Khun Jop’s notion with HMK as the “father” of the people – so that makes it 2 to 3 for your survey and your friends win by a vote. If you conduct your survey in NM, then there’s a large possibility that they’ll be only our two votes! I think it will likely be closer if you surveyed randomly on the streets of Bangkok.
Or it may just be Asian Confucian paternalism (and phrases like “the UN is not my father” doesn’t quite have its effects in a Western context)? At the end of day, I think it is just different realities and that is only natural…
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
I can hardly see how defending Aphisit (didn’t he attack Jakrapob?) from patronizing attacks by Samak is taking on the patronage system. “Brave” would be criticizing both of them.
Six threats and one opportunity
Thank you, Andrew Walker, for the seven threats to Thailand. I agree with you entirely. Actually, my friends of the like mind and I have talked about these for many years, and hope to effect some changes where we can. And now comes this demonstration at Makhawan Bridge. Let us hope that those five iguanas who lead the demonstration will see light. They are not an alliance for democracy, but rather an alliance for secret money. We can see Iguana Suriyasai, for example, acts quite hilariously because the fund is ample for him, whose motto seems to be “Fund and fight”. His conduct confirms completely Walker’s remarks.
Thailand enters 20th century!
You are wrong. Thailand is entering the sixteenth century A.D., not the twentieth century.
Burma’s draft 2008 constitution
[…] new constitution may insist that nobody can be held for more than a day without going to a court or being charged, […]
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Simon: He makes a huge leap. He narrows the patronage system to only the monarchy. Jakrapob talked about how he gained from the patronage system as his father was an airline pilot. Why not insert airline pilots there and say patronage system=airline pilots?
Yes, I can read Thai
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Professor Anan does not make assumptions, he applies linguistics to help analyse Jakrapob’s intentions. The word substitution is simply an additional test to see how the word monarchy would fit based or root analysis combined with context analysis simplified by his mathematical formula that conclusively cracks “The Jakrapob Code”.
BP: Can you read Thai?
RV: I cun’t see your comment
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
Frank: Here are some more details.
Channel “Arte” (French/German)
Documentary “Pal├дste der Macht – Herrscher des Orients: Der Sultan von Brunei und das thail├дndische Königshaus.”
“Palaces of Power — Rulers of the Orient: The Sultan of Brunei and the Thai Royal Dynasty.”
ZDF/Arte
Author: Gero von Boehm
Germany 2007
Shown on 14. Mai 2008 um 20.15 Uhr
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
Frank: The documentary was on the nation-wide channel “Arte”, but it might originally have been French. I should have watched it in the first week of May. Generally, the section on Thailand treated her monarchy in a very positive light. Nevertheless, it could be broadcast in Thailand only with some changes, because the feature also included some critical comments on the heir.
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
Simon: Isn’t Abhisit a product of the patronage system?
For those who haven’t seen Jakrapob’s Code, here is a link at The Manager.
http://tinyurl.com/4xp76q
He makes some great assumptions and starts inserting “monarchy” where “patronage system” is.