The last time I was in the eastern Shan State the major trunk roads were (as they have been for quite a few years) of a good “secondary” nature. Not sure what has changed since then. No mega-highways…but the intention was always there. See the picture of this toll gate to see what I mean.
As an aside, there used not to be a great deal of traffic and every car paid somewhere in the region of 7,000 kyat in tolls to make the journey one way. That was also about how much a single passenger paid in a four-seater car so the drivers were off-loading about a quarter of their take keeping the road-builders happy. Again, I’m not sure if this is still the case. Like Roger I would be keen to hear more from anyone who has been on these roads over the past year or so.
T. S. Puntasen rejects electoral politics because it tends to be corrupt and ends by saying: “People’s politics should not be overlooked.” But T. S. Puntasen offers no insight into what “People’s politics” might be and how it might be representative, non-corrupt and “for the people.”
The alternative is the wishy-washy suggestion to teach “democracy” in classes, family and so on. But whose democracy is to be taught? And why should this version of democracy be superior to the electoral democracy that the ignorant rural savages and workers have voted for a number of times now?
Remember when the NGO leaders called on their “little people” to join them in PAD demonstrations and were met with incredulity?
Maybe if the conservatives in all arenas, including NGOs and the “people’s sector,” let electoral politics work itself out things might look better? But they won’t do that. Rather they’ll line up to support the sufficiency nonsense and the feudal detritus.
“…Surely the best lesson for democracy would have been allowing political differences to be resolved through electoral means.”
I am very much struck by this statement and such firm faith in representative democracy. My opinion is that making electorial politics the sole channel for resolving conflicts and differences equates accepting the impasse, the vicious circle of “kan mueng nam nao” (polluted politics?) that has characterised Thai politics for a long time. Election after election, it is this parliamentary (macho –kindly follow the news of Karun Hosakul and Somkiat Pongpaiboon’s recent fight) politics that stands firm to protect the interests of the elite (of coures with different faces) and the aspiring (big money/mega-project addicts) middle class politicians.
Let’s not be naive by placeing too much faith in representative (of whose interest?) democracy, especially when vote buying and politicians’ selling themselves for money every election seasons are still the reality of Thai democracy. So long as electoral politics operates according to and under the dictates of capitalist democracy, I cannot be convinced to leave problems and conflicts to be resolved by electoral means.
Lessons for democracy can also be taught and nutured at home, in your communities, in some classrooms, and most importantly in protest politics, when your rights and livelihoods encounter threats and insecuirty imposed by governments. People’s politics should not be overlooked.
Mariner: Not sure if your question in #10 was directed at me (referring to my comments in #5)
I don’t know the ambit of the lese majeste laws, and was just wondering if if they needed to be considered given the shareholding of SC.
Personally I would be very surprised if they could be applied unless someone was very loose lipped and directly brought the monarchy into the equation – even then it would be a very bad look if anyone tried to use lese majeste and IMO could only result in a publicity disaster.
That said, I am not sure what is more surprising:
That asbestos is still being imported into and used in Thailand, Malaysia, China & the Phillipines
or
That a first world country like Canada still exports it.
A quite optimistic view of it all -in particular regarding the “help” that the Chinese and Thai governments are supposedly providing for the poor Lao people… Anyway, does anyone know about the current situation of the planned Burmese branch of this road -going from Jinghong to Daluo and the Burmese border, instead of Laos, and then heading south through Shan State into Thailand?
Does raising issues concerning asbestos and the involvement of the Siam Cement/Crowm property Bureau in the unfolding health crisis puts me/us in danger of breaching Lese majeste laws?
The thing is, one is always hearing about someone or other being charged but there is not the slightest hint as to what the objectionable text/comment actually said. Could even the most innocent ‘ slight’ end you up in prison? What is the ambit of these laws? Oh, and who of us (if any), based on our postings on asbestos might be in breach, do you think?
Rich, what you say is right in general, but to me that borders on being extremely condescending. Especially with your use of “they”. I, for one, am one of “them” (and probably so is Surang) who is appalled by the hypocrisy and corruption of our society and refuse to participate in it. I can also vouch for you that many cannot put up with it and have left.
It appears that as of late there has been a concerted effort to marginalize and denigrate Tom Bleming.
I won’t speak to the allegations as presented in the Asia Times, as I wasn’t there and don’t know the details.
A few facts are in order: The Asia Times article states that Bleming is a liar, but nowhere in the article do they say what he is lying about.
His war record? Well documented. He was awarded the Silver Star in Viet Nam for heroism. Those awards aren’t handed out like candy.
His participation in wars? Also well documented. A Google search brings up just a few of the better known ones, but there’s at least a half dozen more wars that he’s participated in. It’s what he does, whether you approve or not. Get over it.
The Asia Times article goes into the area of legalities. They need to do their homework. Bleming has, as far as I know from the comfort of my den, done nothing illegal. If he had, most of the writers for Soldier Of Fortune and Raids magazines would be in prison. Bleming has never sought out or recruited anyone to fight in Burma.
All the aid he has given the Karens has been non lethal – unless you drop a 100 lb bag of rice on your head. Are flashlights war material?
I have never met Nerdah Mya, but I have exchanged emails with him. If what ‘odobhlain” says is true, than Nerdah Mya is talking out of both sides of his mouth. This needs to be clarified.
As for ‘Restless Souls’ and ‘The Long Patrol’ ; I’ve read both books, as well as Blemings book, and while I’m not a literary critic, I think all three contributed to the knowledge base of the Karen struggle. In addition, Bleming doesn’t make his living as a writer, so I think he deserves a pass on his literary endeavors. Or not. Let the readers decide.
Let’s take a moment to discuss armaments. Two articles I have read about Bleming in the last week have mentioned him supplying the Karens with weaponry. Plain and simple, this is an outright lie, and probably intended to bring him to the attention of the Thai authorities.
Tom Bleming has never supplied the KNLA – or anyone else – with weaponry. It’s just that simple. I won’t venture to guess where the KNLA gets their arms and munitions, but I can guarantee you that it isn’t from Tom Bleming. I will stake my freedom on it.
Does “odobhlain” REALLY believe that Bleming has set back the KNLA struggle by decades? Decades? DECADES!!!??? For Christs sake, if you’re going to engage in hyperbole, at least put some effort into it. “odobhlain”, you owe me a new keyboard – I spit coffee on mine after reading that statement. What a load.
Here’s a fact for you – Nerdah Mya is content to sit on the Thai/Burma border and entertain journalists and war junkies, rather than actually engage in combat operations against the SPDC. And in turn, the SPDC is content to allow Nerdah Mya rule over his two acre kingdom. I’ve seen nothing from Nerdah Mya that gives me any faith in his ability to carry the fight to the SPDC, and I’ve told Bleming as much. Why risk your life and treasure on undeserving people?
I specifically told Bleming that he should throw his lot in with the Free Burma Rangers, and not with some dead enders just sitting in a rundown jungle encampment.
One of the things that has happened since Bleming went to Burma is that the KNU propaganda machine has gone into high gear. The KNU and their fellow travelers in the media have gone after Bleming with everything they have (I actually warned him against assassination – a KNU favorite tactic against critics).
The media types who have reported favorably towards Bleming are from “wide spot in the road” Wyoming. Not nearly as sophisticated as the globe trotting “freelance” journalists reporting the war from their favorite bar in Mae Sot or Chiang Mai, who sneak across the border for a quick lunch and then breathlessly report from “the front lines” that Bleming is mucking up their private war. You guys slay me. And you wonder why people consider journalists on the same par with pedophiles.
While “odobhlain” and other journalists spend their waking moments trying to cadge drinks and “news stories” in Mae Sot, I spend my time contacting influential people in Washington, trying to actually get something done for the Karen people.
And one of the biggest obstacles I continually encounter is the KNU. That’s right – the KNU. No one wants to deal with them. That’s their reputation.
The leadership of the KNU is firmly in bed with corrupt politicians and military people from Thailand. And more than a few have been co-opted by the SPDC, making “private accomodations”. The timber, gems and narcotics markets trump any thoughts of actually doing anything meaningful for the Karen people. And why should they – they have hundreds of gullible western aid workers who will take care of that end of things. (I wish that every church and other NGO would just pack up and leave for 90 days – that’s all it would take for the ugly truth to float to the surface).
If one were to have any dealings with any of the myriad Karen exile organizations in the U.S., chances are that it would be on the desk of the SPDC before the end of the workday. Yes, they’re that infiltrated.
Anyway, here’s to you and Brian McCartin, “odobhlain”, for your first class attempt at character assassination. Bottoms up. And don’t forget to collect your paycheck.
I am disgusted. Surely, the Thaksin connection is no coincidence and I imagine some evil plot concocted in Finland many years life times ago is behind it all. I demand the new deputy spokeswomen dress up in this particular design so we can be sufficiently titillated appalled.
Thomas Bleming and his book are probably the worst blight on all the literature to come out of the struggle for Karen independence, and considering the deplorable quality of books like “The Long Patrol”, and “Restless Souls”, that is a high hurdle to jump. That guy is a liar, and most of what he says is self serving rubbish. There is really no such thing as “The Republic of Kawhtoolei”, nor has he been granted the honor of serving as Consul-General, as he says. He has even been traipsing around Mae Sot handing out his business cards, (which he autographs for you) declaring himself to be the Consul-General of Kawhtoolei. The Casper Star article contains a few falsehoods itself, they should do a bit more fact checking before publishing. I say all this only because I live and work in this area, and this guy and his garbage not only brings unwanted attention and scrutiny, but sets the Karen political struggle back by decades. A great article to read further is http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JD02Ae01.html Check it out.
I visited these people some years ago in Mae Hong Son. I was told…
The name they prefer to use for themselves is ‘Kayan.’ [‘Karen’ is apparently not correct].
The National Geographic did a story on them years ago, including taking x-rays, and found that the weight of the rings – worn for many years – depressed collar bones, rather than elongated necks.
And that there are various ‘origin’ stories. One is they do this to mimic their ancestors, whom they believe are dragons (this is not uncommon: some Mien women wear turbans with bits of cloth sticking out of the sides to mimic the ears of their founding Dog). Another origin story is that they were originally concubines for the Burmese court, and that the rings were a method of control (ie ‘disobey and we remove your rings!’) Personally I find this last story hard to believe.
I wonder if anyone else has more information about these people. – Especially about the full reasons for a new camp just north of Chiang Rai?
This IS a very fascinating study! At VoteSizing.org, we feel that the poor should be given a stronger vote… and that money/power needs to be separated to keep the balance. What do you think?
Great idea to resolve the people’s problems. I’m sure Charnvit could recruit Sondhi Limthongkul to rile up the masses and get them wearing yellow t-shirts saying “I love my Siam” on the front and “What Would Rama I Do?” on the back.
The goal would be then to get Prem, Thongdaeng and Fufu to be seen in the shirt and then have the king give it a sly mention in his birthday speech.
The armed forces and courts would then fall in line — “Amend the Constitution” the new clarion call” — and Thaksin/Samak would see their dedication to “Thailand” (and moving the government to Thonburi) would be on the line and … well, maybe they would head to the United Nations to see what could be done and then never come back. Buy a US baseball team or something.
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Kunming to Bangkok road links
Hi Roger,
The last time I was in the eastern Shan State the major trunk roads were (as they have been for quite a few years) of a good “secondary” nature. Not sure what has changed since then. No mega-highways…but the intention was always there. See the picture of this toll gate to see what I mean.
As an aside, there used not to be a great deal of traffic and every car paid somewhere in the region of 7,000 kyat in tolls to make the journey one way. That was also about how much a single passenger paid in a four-seater car so the drivers were off-loading about a quarter of their take keeping the road-builders happy. Again, I’m not sure if this is still the case. Like Roger I would be keen to hear more from anyone who has been on these roads over the past year or so.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Virtuous sufficiency
T. S. Puntasen rejects electoral politics because it tends to be corrupt and ends by saying: “People’s politics should not be overlooked.” But T. S. Puntasen offers no insight into what “People’s politics” might be and how it might be representative, non-corrupt and “for the people.”
The alternative is the wishy-washy suggestion to teach “democracy” in classes, family and so on. But whose democracy is to be taught? And why should this version of democracy be superior to the electoral democracy that the ignorant rural savages and workers have voted for a number of times now?
Remember when the NGO leaders called on their “little people” to join them in PAD demonstrations and were met with incredulity?
Maybe if the conservatives in all arenas, including NGOs and the “people’s sector,” let electoral politics work itself out things might look better? But they won’t do that. Rather they’ll line up to support the sufficiency nonsense and the feudal detritus.
Virtuous sufficiency
“…Surely the best lesson for democracy would have been allowing political differences to be resolved through electoral means.”
I am very much struck by this statement and such firm faith in representative democracy. My opinion is that making electorial politics the sole channel for resolving conflicts and differences equates accepting the impasse, the vicious circle of “kan mueng nam nao” (polluted politics?) that has characterised Thai politics for a long time. Election after election, it is this parliamentary (macho –kindly follow the news of Karun Hosakul and Somkiat Pongpaiboon’s recent fight) politics that stands firm to protect the interests of the elite (of coures with different faces) and the aspiring (big money/mega-project addicts) middle class politicians.
Let’s not be naive by placeing too much faith in representative (of whose interest?) democracy, especially when vote buying and politicians’ selling themselves for money every election seasons are still the reality of Thai democracy. So long as electoral politics operates according to and under the dictates of capitalist democracy, I cannot be convinced to leave problems and conflicts to be resolved by electoral means.
Lessons for democracy can also be taught and nutured at home, in your communities, in some classrooms, and most importantly in protest politics, when your rights and livelihoods encounter threats and insecuirty imposed by governments. People’s politics should not be overlooked.
Asbestos in Thailand
Mariner: Not sure if your question in #10 was directed at me (referring to my comments in #5)
I don’t know the ambit of the lese majeste laws, and was just wondering if if they needed to be considered given the shareholding of SC.
Personally I would be very surprised if they could be applied unless someone was very loose lipped and directly brought the monarchy into the equation – even then it would be a very bad look if anyone tried to use lese majeste and IMO could only result in a publicity disaster.
That said, I am not sure what is more surprising:
That asbestos is still being imported into and used in Thailand, Malaysia, China & the Phillipines
or
That a first world country like Canada still exports it.
Thailand? Siam? Who cares?
Siam Riep, the name of a old city where the khmer defeated the Siam in early ages. The name might be chinese or khmer.
Very low chances of being malay… since its a community that is in the island. When evolution came from inda or china first… or whatever.
To me Siam is just a khmer word thats been used forever. It might even be just a Siam word….. Thai is just an invented word that doesnt mean FREE.
Kunming to Bangkok road links
A quite optimistic view of it all -in particular regarding the “help” that the Chinese and Thai governments are supposedly providing for the poor Lao people… Anyway, does anyone know about the current situation of the planned Burmese branch of this road -going from Jinghong to Daluo and the Burmese border, instead of Laos, and then heading south through Shan State into Thailand?
On tap or freshly squeezed?
That’s real religious art worth worshipping!
Asbestos in Thailand
Does raising issues concerning asbestos and the involvement of the Siam Cement/Crowm property Bureau in the unfolding health crisis puts me/us in danger of breaching Lese majeste laws?
The thing is, one is always hearing about someone or other being charged but there is not the slightest hint as to what the objectionable text/comment actually said. Could even the most innocent ‘ slight’ end you up in prison? What is the ambit of these laws? Oh, and who of us (if any), based on our postings on asbestos might be in breach, do you think?
Yellow shirts, 100 baht and a speech from Surayud
Rich, what you say is right in general, but to me that borders on being extremely condescending. Especially with your use of “they”. I, for one, am one of “them” (and probably so is Surang) who is appalled by the hypocrisy and corruption of our society and refuse to participate in it. I can also vouch for you that many cannot put up with it and have left.
Anyways, just some friendly advice.
Kunming to Bangkok road links
Progress never stops! 🙂
Virtuous sufficiency
This is all a farce.
“Siam Prathed” and Charnvit Kasetsiri
Much ado about nothing.
Yellow shirts, 100 baht and a speech from Surayud
Rich’s comment really hits the nail on the head. Good for Rich and thanks.
The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
It appears that as of late there has been a concerted effort to marginalize and denigrate Tom Bleming.
I won’t speak to the allegations as presented in the Asia Times, as I wasn’t there and don’t know the details.
A few facts are in order: The Asia Times article states that Bleming is a liar, but nowhere in the article do they say what he is lying about.
His war record? Well documented. He was awarded the Silver Star in Viet Nam for heroism. Those awards aren’t handed out like candy.
His participation in wars? Also well documented. A Google search brings up just a few of the better known ones, but there’s at least a half dozen more wars that he’s participated in. It’s what he does, whether you approve or not. Get over it.
The Asia Times article goes into the area of legalities. They need to do their homework. Bleming has, as far as I know from the comfort of my den, done nothing illegal. If he had, most of the writers for Soldier Of Fortune and Raids magazines would be in prison. Bleming has never sought out or recruited anyone to fight in Burma.
All the aid he has given the Karens has been non lethal – unless you drop a 100 lb bag of rice on your head. Are flashlights war material?
I have never met Nerdah Mya, but I have exchanged emails with him. If what ‘odobhlain” says is true, than Nerdah Mya is talking out of both sides of his mouth. This needs to be clarified.
As for ‘Restless Souls’ and ‘The Long Patrol’ ; I’ve read both books, as well as Blemings book, and while I’m not a literary critic, I think all three contributed to the knowledge base of the Karen struggle. In addition, Bleming doesn’t make his living as a writer, so I think he deserves a pass on his literary endeavors. Or not. Let the readers decide.
Let’s take a moment to discuss armaments. Two articles I have read about Bleming in the last week have mentioned him supplying the Karens with weaponry. Plain and simple, this is an outright lie, and probably intended to bring him to the attention of the Thai authorities.
Tom Bleming has never supplied the KNLA – or anyone else – with weaponry. It’s just that simple. I won’t venture to guess where the KNLA gets their arms and munitions, but I can guarantee you that it isn’t from Tom Bleming. I will stake my freedom on it.
Does “odobhlain” REALLY believe that Bleming has set back the KNLA struggle by decades? Decades? DECADES!!!??? For Christs sake, if you’re going to engage in hyperbole, at least put some effort into it. “odobhlain”, you owe me a new keyboard – I spit coffee on mine after reading that statement. What a load.
Here’s a fact for you – Nerdah Mya is content to sit on the Thai/Burma border and entertain journalists and war junkies, rather than actually engage in combat operations against the SPDC. And in turn, the SPDC is content to allow Nerdah Mya rule over his two acre kingdom. I’ve seen nothing from Nerdah Mya that gives me any faith in his ability to carry the fight to the SPDC, and I’ve told Bleming as much. Why risk your life and treasure on undeserving people?
I specifically told Bleming that he should throw his lot in with the Free Burma Rangers, and not with some dead enders just sitting in a rundown jungle encampment.
One of the things that has happened since Bleming went to Burma is that the KNU propaganda machine has gone into high gear. The KNU and their fellow travelers in the media have gone after Bleming with everything they have (I actually warned him against assassination – a KNU favorite tactic against critics).
The media types who have reported favorably towards Bleming are from “wide spot in the road” Wyoming. Not nearly as sophisticated as the globe trotting “freelance” journalists reporting the war from their favorite bar in Mae Sot or Chiang Mai, who sneak across the border for a quick lunch and then breathlessly report from “the front lines” that Bleming is mucking up their private war. You guys slay me. And you wonder why people consider journalists on the same par with pedophiles.
While “odobhlain” and other journalists spend their waking moments trying to cadge drinks and “news stories” in Mae Sot, I spend my time contacting influential people in Washington, trying to actually get something done for the Karen people.
And one of the biggest obstacles I continually encounter is the KNU. That’s right – the KNU. No one wants to deal with them. That’s their reputation.
The leadership of the KNU is firmly in bed with corrupt politicians and military people from Thailand. And more than a few have been co-opted by the SPDC, making “private accomodations”. The timber, gems and narcotics markets trump any thoughts of actually doing anything meaningful for the Karen people. And why should they – they have hundreds of gullible western aid workers who will take care of that end of things. (I wish that every church and other NGO would just pack up and leave for 90 days – that’s all it would take for the ugly truth to float to the surface).
If one were to have any dealings with any of the myriad Karen exile organizations in the U.S., chances are that it would be on the desk of the SPDC before the end of the workday. Yes, they’re that infiltrated.
Anyway, here’s to you and Brian McCartin, “odobhlain”, for your first class attempt at character assassination. Bottoms up. And don’t forget to collect your paycheck.
Charles Foster
[email protected]
Why yes, I do own a Triumph chopper. What is life without frustration?
On tap or freshly squeezed?
Human rules regarding exposure of anatomy during water play do not apply to goddesses.
On tap or freshly squeezed?
I am disgusted. Surely, the Thaksin connection is no coincidence and I imagine some evil plot concocted in Finland many years life times ago is behind it all. I demand the new deputy spokeswomen dress up in this particular design so we can be sufficiently
titillatedappalled.The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
Thomas Bleming and his book are probably the worst blight on all the literature to come out of the struggle for Karen independence, and considering the deplorable quality of books like “The Long Patrol”, and “Restless Souls”, that is a high hurdle to jump. That guy is a liar, and most of what he says is self serving rubbish. There is really no such thing as “The Republic of Kawhtoolei”, nor has he been granted the honor of serving as Consul-General, as he says. He has even been traipsing around Mae Sot handing out his business cards, (which he autographs for you) declaring himself to be the Consul-General of Kawhtoolei. The Casper Star article contains a few falsehoods itself, they should do a bit more fact checking before publishing. I say all this only because I live and work in this area, and this guy and his garbage not only brings unwanted attention and scrutiny, but sets the Karen political struggle back by decades. A great article to read further is http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JD02Ae01.html Check it out.
Bound by tradition
I visited these people some years ago in Mae Hong Son. I was told…
The name they prefer to use for themselves is ‘Kayan.’ [‘Karen’ is apparently not correct].
The National Geographic did a story on them years ago, including taking x-rays, and found that the weight of the rings – worn for many years – depressed collar bones, rather than elongated necks.
And that there are various ‘origin’ stories. One is they do this to mimic their ancestors, whom they believe are dragons (this is not uncommon: some Mien women wear turbans with bits of cloth sticking out of the sides to mimic the ears of their founding Dog). Another origin story is that they were originally concubines for the Burmese court, and that the rings were a method of control (ie ‘disobey and we remove your rings!’) Personally I find this last story hard to believe.
I wonder if anyone else has more information about these people. – Especially about the full reasons for a new camp just north of Chiang Rai?
The vote of the poor
This IS a very fascinating study! At VoteSizing.org, we feel that the poor should be given a stronger vote… and that money/power needs to be separated to keep the balance. What do you think?
“Siam Prathed” and Charnvit Kasetsiri
Great idea to resolve the people’s problems. I’m sure Charnvit could recruit Sondhi Limthongkul to rile up the masses and get them wearing yellow t-shirts saying “I love my Siam” on the front and “What Would Rama I Do?” on the back.
The goal would be then to get Prem, Thongdaeng and Fufu to be seen in the shirt and then have the king give it a sly mention in his birthday speech.
The armed forces and courts would then fall in line — “Amend the Constitution” the new clarion call” — and Thaksin/Samak would see their dedication to “Thailand” (and moving the government to Thonburi) would be on the line and … well, maybe they would head to the United Nations to see what could be done and then never come back. Buy a US baseball team or something.
And that would solve all the problems. The End.