Is 100,000 rai a large holding for a man of such wealth? Setting aside acquisition of land from bankrupt farmers – small and large – the price of farming land on the open market is a fraction of the prices being paid for prime parcels of land in Bangkok.
How do we define huge in terms of land holdings? Thailand is a large country, with a fair amount of agricultural land across the plains, plateaux and mountain valleys. Does it matter whether his holdings are scattered in small parcels or concentrated in a few huge estates?
Will the distribution affect how he monetizes that land? Small parcels might suggest contract farming of high-value crops requiring close attention by relatively skilled farmers, the latter may be more suitable for plantations by lower-value crops only requiring occasional attention by less skilled labourers or tappers.
Who will do what? Contract farming, probably offering higher returns and a closer relationship between the investor (Charoen) and the farmer, seems more likely to employ Thais. Plantation work may lend itself to migrant (illegal?) labour from Burma, Cambodia, Laos and perhaps even China, given developments in Laos.
He would not seem to be alone. Advanced Agro (Double A) is being delisted by the family that listed it (notices were placed in the Bangkok Post in early January). Last November or December the Bangkok Post reported that a factory was being built to produce energy (either ethanol or to generate electricity on site for sale to the grid – my recollection is foggy) in Mae Sot using sugar cane grown on fields polluted with cadmium. I remember Arsa Sarasin, the king’s private secretary, being mentioned in the article. What happens to the cadmium in the cane when it is burnt? Is it released in the smoke going into the air, or does it remain sequestered, concentrated even, in the ash? What happens to the ash? Sold as fertilizer to farmers?
The report of Chaoren’s expanding agricultural interests coincidentally appeared at the same time Samak’s announcement of a scheme to irrigate Isarn with water diverted from the Mekong at Loei.
What impact will that have on land prices? Will prices of land once written off as barren or marginal rise if it lies within the boundaries of the water transfer and irrigation scheme? If there is real political will behind this project perhaps some well-connected cliques had advance notice of this project and the areas it will irrigate. Would they not be buying up land?
As an aside, perhaps agri-business is becoming more attractive, more manageable because of improving infrastructure, especially roads and mobile phones, which should contribute to cutting costs and improving supervision. Do these trends favour more intenstive, time-sensitive, more capital-intensive crops?
How will these investors add value? Where will they add value? What markets are they targetting? How will this affect Thailand’s economy and competitiveness? What about exports? Regional trade patterns and political relations? As investment ramps up into biofuels will the government lend its investor friends a hand by mandating a shift to biofuels in transport, industry and the home?
“I wonder how the frequency of reporting on Burma compares to that of other conflicts/humanitarian crises over the last decade or so? Is anyone aware of any studies in this regard?”
Raw “frequency” would say little since most of the reporting on Burma suffers from **endless repetition of cliche** (Rambo, jungle freedom fighter, “the only way into the country is up the river,” blah, blah, blah) in which the reader typically learns nothing, and reinforces any racist proclivities that they already have.
I remember one West Point graduate Panama veteran who delighted in describing to me the way he picked off Burmese soldiers as they visited the watering hole, pure delight in killing other human beings, sick, hardly noble or a contribution to peace or conflict resolution.
People should read what people like Ashley South who have devoted themselves to the subject for the longhaul have to say, not some exploitative backpacker wannabe best seller photo journalist exotic travel diary writer hunting for a scoop. Yuck.
This is really beside the point, but I couldn’t help smiling a little at the Casper Star-Tribune’s reporter’s statement that “Searches for “Republic of Kathoolei” or Karen National Liberation Army, the military branch of indigenous people fighting for what they believe is their country, turn up little on Internet sites.”
“Karen National Liberation Army” turns up 59,300 hits on Google. Republic of Kathoolei turns up just 8, but the correctly spelled kawthoolei turns up over 1,000.
It seems every article about Burma must come with the obligatory statement about how the crisis is under-reported. I wonder how the frequency of reporting on Burma compares to that of other conflicts/humanitarian crises over the last decade or so? Is anyone aware of any studies in this regard?
I don’t think you can assume a consolidation of landholdings from small farmers to tycoons after 1997. For one, the devaluation increased the baht prices of farm commodities, putting more money into the hands of rice farmers for a few years. Secondly, banks had too many bigger problems to bother so much with smalltime farmers.
But also, there were businessmen and even some big tycoons who likely had to give up land holdings pledged to the banks. One was the top rice trader — can’t remember his name — who bought up huge amounts of land in the 80s and 90s to build eucalyptus plantations, and then tried to industrialise a lot of other farm business. When his empire collapsed he possibly lost all that land.
Presumably the banks would have had to sell off a bunch of the land seized as loan collateral, but that would have been mostly passing it from one businessman to another.
Charoen anyway already had lots of land before 1997 for sugar cane, rice and hops to support his beer a liquor businesses. Handley wrote that Prem was on his payroll someplace, but that didn’t turn Charoen into a sufficiency economy farmer.
But I would guess that Charoen and the evil Sophonpanichs stoked their own land banks from defaulting banking customers (Charoen did control Siam City Bank ?and First Bangkok City Bank?.)
I have not read the book but I have read the “newspaper”, and that was quite enough. Weekly Eleven should put out an English version: it would beat the pants off the Myanmar Times, as it does in Burmese. The Times: two weeks late, full of recycled government propaganda and promos for local companies disguised as articles, too many ads, substandard writing. Eleven: up to date, relevant, few ads and lots of news between the lines. Little wonder that Eleven sells out whereas the Times is still available days after publication. Ironically, to study how to publish a modern journal, the Eleven staff visited The Nation. Given the good quality and informative material they put out in difficult and dangerous conditions, they should be teaching the Bangkok media a thing or two, not vice versa.
The work of this archeologist in my view is questionable. His close collaboration with Michael Aung Thwin who has extreme prejudices against the ethnic peoples, in particular, the Mon, should be brought up. I believe they are biased in favour of doing work in Burma and wouldn’t be allowed to work there if they brought up research on the Mon. The Mon in lower Burma are now experiencing the intensification of Burmanisation in which thousands of acres of farmland have been confiscated for Burman military families and battalions, please vist Mon human rights foundations to see reports, as well as http://www.kaowao.org on the suppression of the Mon culture in which the Mon people are experiencing.
Also, according to some of my Mon friends, there are many sites in lower Burma, however, due to militarisation in the area no outsiders are allowed here, so no archeological research would be allowed. Although, I am sure Hudson would be.
I would like to know Jon your thoughts on the Pyu and their relationship to the Mon if you know. I am reading Emmanuel Guillon’ book. But I would like to know if you have any up to date material on the Pyu, some archeologist are of the mind of Hudson and say that the Mon did not contribute to Pagan. Although, looking at the history of Dvaravati, I would say the Mon in Dvaravati share many characteristics with the Pyu.
The Karen National Liberation Army will accept individuals from any country. I suggest you read “War in Karen Country” (available in Canada from Amazon.com in Canada by the way and it is selling quite well in your country by the way!!), for all questions you may have then make your decision.
You mean he said it so that he can’t be attacked or charged? If that’s the case, then the rest of his interview seems very odd.
In his paper there seem to be a number of “fascinating”, perhaps throwaway lines. e.g. he also seems to think that the king acted democratically when he didn’t respond directly to the call to use Article 7. Is that a serious statement or is he swallowing royalist propaganda?
Ross Dunkley should be ashamed of spearheading this paper, which is the Burmese military junta’s mouthpiece to the world, thinly disguised by a veneer of international news. This paper has consistently promoted the junta’s causes, from eulogizing the business owned by the son of Khin Nyunt, to all the sickening interviews published in the paper between members of the ruling junta and the newspaper editors.
Ma Thanegi, a regular contributor to this newspaper, is reviled as a traitor. After being Aung San Suu Kyi’s closest aide, she switched sides and gushed in the Myanmar Times about how Aroma Cafe’s cup of capuccino costs only so much — but the amount she mentioned was 10 percent of the salary of then high ranking civil servants. You see, Aroma Cafe at the time was owned by Khin Nyunt’s son and his Singaporean wife.
It is hard to believe that Ross Dunkley is indeed Australian — from the same wonderful country that has recently rejected the junta’s proposal to appoint a military man as Burma’s Ambassador to Australia. Dnukley should open his eyes to the misery, the wretchedness and the hunger of our Burmese people and start writing about these instead, if he has the courage. Does he know that in 2007, people across the river from Rangoon were so poor that for one meal each day, they had to drink water drained from the boiling of rice? Not even rice gruel, but the thin water that people throw out in cooking rice. This water is collected and sold at a cheap price to the poor.
At the ABC website (Radio Australia Asia-Pacific program) Ungpakorn is quoted: “We really do need to talk about the monarchy, especially in the light of the 19th September coup d’etat in 2006, because the military junta claim they had the support of the monarchy,” he said.
“Many people in Thailand go even so far as believing the monarchy planned the coup d’etat. I’m not one of those people but we really need to ask the question what is the relationship between the monarchy and democracy.”
Teth,
Yes there is “a staggering lack of comprehension with what to do with the numbers” I have read recently a few books such as Supercrunchers by Ian Ayres and Freakanomics that show the great potential. It will be interesting what can be achieved.
Most of the number crunching and ideas seems to be going into beating the financial markets with hedge funds, derivatives etc. This is now turning into financial dysfunctionality with fund managers chasing their tail by everyone ending up in a zerosum game. The total value of the market is not changing but the players are getting billions for their efforts. Perhaps the latest subprime crisis couls s
I talked to one of my friends. She said it’s coming out in Thailand out in March.. I guess they need time to edit the movie.. bah. I’ll just buy the dvd before the destroyed version hits the cinema’s.”
hi im from new zealand seeking contacts with people in burma or mynamar, i’m a journalist wishing to document current events that wwill otherwise remain unknown if you could help me it would be much appreciated
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A Thai latifundist
Is 100,000 rai a large holding for a man of such wealth? Setting aside acquisition of land from bankrupt farmers – small and large – the price of farming land on the open market is a fraction of the prices being paid for prime parcels of land in Bangkok.
How do we define huge in terms of land holdings? Thailand is a large country, with a fair amount of agricultural land across the plains, plateaux and mountain valleys. Does it matter whether his holdings are scattered in small parcels or concentrated in a few huge estates?
Will the distribution affect how he monetizes that land? Small parcels might suggest contract farming of high-value crops requiring close attention by relatively skilled farmers, the latter may be more suitable for plantations by lower-value crops only requiring occasional attention by less skilled labourers or tappers.
Who will do what? Contract farming, probably offering higher returns and a closer relationship between the investor (Charoen) and the farmer, seems more likely to employ Thais. Plantation work may lend itself to migrant (illegal?) labour from Burma, Cambodia, Laos and perhaps even China, given developments in Laos.
He would not seem to be alone. Advanced Agro (Double A) is being delisted by the family that listed it (notices were placed in the Bangkok Post in early January). Last November or December the Bangkok Post reported that a factory was being built to produce energy (either ethanol or to generate electricity on site for sale to the grid – my recollection is foggy) in Mae Sot using sugar cane grown on fields polluted with cadmium. I remember Arsa Sarasin, the king’s private secretary, being mentioned in the article. What happens to the cadmium in the cane when it is burnt? Is it released in the smoke going into the air, or does it remain sequestered, concentrated even, in the ash? What happens to the ash? Sold as fertilizer to farmers?
The report of Chaoren’s expanding agricultural interests coincidentally appeared at the same time Samak’s announcement of a scheme to irrigate Isarn with water diverted from the Mekong at Loei.
What impact will that have on land prices? Will prices of land once written off as barren or marginal rise if it lies within the boundaries of the water transfer and irrigation scheme? If there is real political will behind this project perhaps some well-connected cliques had advance notice of this project and the areas it will irrigate. Would they not be buying up land?
As an aside, perhaps agri-business is becoming more attractive, more manageable because of improving infrastructure, especially roads and mobile phones, which should contribute to cutting costs and improving supervision. Do these trends favour more intenstive, time-sensitive, more capital-intensive crops?
How will these investors add value? Where will they add value? What markets are they targetting? How will this affect Thailand’s economy and competitiveness? What about exports? Regional trade patterns and political relations? As investment ramps up into biofuels will the government lend its investor friends a hand by mandating a shift to biofuels in transport, industry and the home?
The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
“I wonder how the frequency of reporting on Burma compares to that of other conflicts/humanitarian crises over the last decade or so? Is anyone aware of any studies in this regard?”
Raw “frequency” would say little since most of the reporting on Burma suffers from **endless repetition of cliche** (Rambo, jungle freedom fighter, “the only way into the country is up the river,” blah, blah, blah) in which the reader typically learns nothing, and reinforces any racist proclivities that they already have.
I remember one West Point graduate Panama veteran who delighted in describing to me the way he picked off Burmese soldiers as they visited the watering hole, pure delight in killing other human beings, sick, hardly noble or a contribution to peace or conflict resolution.
People should read what people like Ashley South who have devoted themselves to the subject for the longhaul have to say, not some exploitative backpacker wannabe best seller photo journalist exotic travel diary writer hunting for a scoop. Yuck.
The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
This is really beside the point, but I couldn’t help smiling a little at the Casper Star-Tribune’s reporter’s statement that “Searches for “Republic of Kathoolei” or Karen National Liberation Army, the military branch of indigenous people fighting for what they believe is their country, turn up little on Internet sites.”
“Karen National Liberation Army” turns up 59,300 hits on Google. Republic of Kathoolei turns up just 8, but the correctly spelled kawthoolei turns up over 1,000.
It seems every article about Burma must come with the obligatory statement about how the crisis is under-reported. I wonder how the frequency of reporting on Burma compares to that of other conflicts/humanitarian crises over the last decade or so? Is anyone aware of any studies in this regard?
A Thai latifundist
I don’t think you can assume a consolidation of landholdings from small farmers to tycoons after 1997. For one, the devaluation increased the baht prices of farm commodities, putting more money into the hands of rice farmers for a few years. Secondly, banks had too many bigger problems to bother so much with smalltime farmers.
But also, there were businessmen and even some big tycoons who likely had to give up land holdings pledged to the banks. One was the top rice trader — can’t remember his name — who bought up huge amounts of land in the 80s and 90s to build eucalyptus plantations, and then tried to industrialise a lot of other farm business. When his empire collapsed he possibly lost all that land.
Presumably the banks would have had to sell off a bunch of the land seized as loan collateral, but that would have been mostly passing it from one businessman to another.
Charoen anyway already had lots of land before 1997 for sugar cane, rice and hops to support his beer a liquor businesses. Handley wrote that Prem was on his payroll someplace, but that didn’t turn Charoen into a sufficiency economy farmer.
But I would guess that Charoen and the evil Sophonpanichs stoked their own land banks from defaulting banking customers (Charoen did control Siam City Bank ?and First Bangkok City Bank?.)
Job at The Myanmar Times
I have not read the book but I have read the “newspaper”, and that was quite enough. Weekly Eleven should put out an English version: it would beat the pants off the Myanmar Times, as it does in Burmese. The Times: two weeks late, full of recycled government propaganda and promos for local companies disguised as articles, too many ads, substandard writing. Eleven: up to date, relevant, few ads and lots of news between the lines. Little wonder that Eleven sells out whereas the Times is still available days after publication. Ironically, to study how to publish a modern journal, the Eleven staff visited The Nation. Given the good quality and informative material they put out in difficult and dangerous conditions, they should be teaching the Bangkok media a thing or two, not vice versa.
Xat Lao
This email is for Jon Fernquest,
I am interested on your thoughts on Bob Hudson’s research on the Mon in Lower Burma.
http://acl.arts.usyd.edu.au/~hudson/ArchaeologyOfBurma-Gutman&Hudson2004.pdf
The work of this archeologist in my view is questionable. His close collaboration with Michael Aung Thwin who has extreme prejudices against the ethnic peoples, in particular, the Mon, should be brought up. I believe they are biased in favour of doing work in Burma and wouldn’t be allowed to work there if they brought up research on the Mon. The Mon in lower Burma are now experiencing the intensification of Burmanisation in which thousands of acres of farmland have been confiscated for Burman military families and battalions, please vist Mon human rights foundations to see reports, as well as http://www.kaowao.org on the suppression of the Mon culture in which the Mon people are experiencing.
Also, according to some of my Mon friends, there are many sites in lower Burma, however, due to militarisation in the area no outsiders are allowed here, so no archeological research would be allowed. Although, I am sure Hudson would be.
I would like to know Jon your thoughts on the Pyu and their relationship to the Mon if you know. I am reading Emmanuel Guillon’ book. But I would like to know if you have any up to date material on the Pyu, some archeologist are of the mind of Hudson and say that the Mon did not contribute to Pagan. Although, looking at the history of Dvaravati, I would say the Mon in Dvaravati share many characteristics with the Pyu.
Thank you,
Volunteering to fight in Burma
The Karen National Liberation Army will accept individuals from any country. I suggest you read “War in Karen Country” (available in Canada from Amazon.com in Canada by the way and it is selling quite well in your country by the way!!), for all questions you may have then make your decision.
Lèse majesté lives on
You mean he said it so that he can’t be attacked or charged? If that’s the case, then the rest of his interview seems very odd.
In his paper there seem to be a number of “fascinating”, perhaps throwaway lines. e.g. he also seems to think that the king acted democratically when he didn’t respond directly to the call to use Article 7. Is that a serious statement or is he swallowing royalist propaganda?
Rambo off the menu in Thailand?
I just got word of a March 13 release date for Rambo in Thailand. Have to wait and see how much of it is left after the censors are done with it.
Job at The Myanmar Times
Ross Dunkley should be ashamed of spearheading this paper, which is the Burmese military junta’s mouthpiece to the world, thinly disguised by a veneer of international news. This paper has consistently promoted the junta’s causes, from eulogizing the business owned by the son of Khin Nyunt, to all the sickening interviews published in the paper between members of the ruling junta and the newspaper editors.
Ma Thanegi, a regular contributor to this newspaper, is reviled as a traitor. After being Aung San Suu Kyi’s closest aide, she switched sides and gushed in the Myanmar Times about how Aroma Cafe’s cup of capuccino costs only so much — but the amount she mentioned was 10 percent of the salary of then high ranking civil servants. You see, Aroma Cafe at the time was owned by Khin Nyunt’s son and his Singaporean wife.
It is hard to believe that Ross Dunkley is indeed Australian — from the same wonderful country that has recently rejected the junta’s proposal to appoint a military man as Burma’s Ambassador to Australia. Dnukley should open his eyes to the misery, the wretchedness and the hunger of our Burmese people and start writing about these instead, if he has the courage. Does he know that in 2007, people across the river from Rangoon were so poor that for one meal each day, they had to drink water drained from the boiling of rice? Not even rice gruel, but the thin water that people throw out in cooking rice. This water is collected and sold at a cheap price to the poor.
Lèse majesté lives on
He merely needed that sentence to be able to put in the preceding one. Anyway, who would believe that?
Lèse majesté lives on
‘The “I’m not one of those people” is fascinating.’ Why?
The business of sufficiency economy
I love the King more than you! You unloyal S.O.B who shouldn’t call him/herself a Thai!
May the King live a million years! Long live the King!!!!!!111111one
Lèse majesté lives on
At the ABC website (Radio Australia Asia-Pacific program) Ungpakorn is quoted: “We really do need to talk about the monarchy, especially in the light of the 19th September coup d’etat in 2006, because the military junta claim they had the support of the monarchy,” he said.
“Many people in Thailand go even so far as believing the monarchy planned the coup d’etat. I’m not one of those people but we really need to ask the question what is the relationship between the monarchy and democracy.”
The “I’m not one of those people” is fascinating.
More debate on The King Never Smiles
Kampuju: Think of all the North Koreans who love their leader. Blind faith, belief in propaganda, uncritical love for a father figure.
Rambo off the menu in Thailand?
Thanks Grasshopper,
We will wait and see. As Narcisuss says – the editing suite is probably working overtime. Nonetheless, the Singaporeans have it already.
Happy to hear from any readers who have other information.
Best wishes to all.
Power, violence, politics and truth
Teth,
Yes there is “a staggering lack of comprehension with what to do with the numbers” I have read recently a few books such as Supercrunchers by Ian Ayres and Freakanomics that show the great potential. It will be interesting what can be achieved.
Most of the number crunching and ideas seems to be going into beating the financial markets with hedge funds, derivatives etc. This is now turning into financial dysfunctionality with fund managers chasing their tail by everyone ending up in a zerosum game. The total value of the market is not changing but the players are getting billions for their efforts. Perhaps the latest subprime crisis couls s
Rambo off the menu in Thailand?
” comment 4
narcisuss date : 30/01/2008 time : 16.57
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/narcisuss/2008/01/30/entry-1
I talked to one of my friends. She said it’s coming out in Thailand out in March.. I guess they need time to edit the movie.. bah. I’ll just buy the dvd before the destroyed version hits the cinema’s.”
The business of sufficiency economy
i love my King
UK Television: Burma’s Secret War
hi im from new zealand seeking contacts with people in burma or mynamar, i’m a journalist wishing to document current events that wwill otherwise remain unknown if you could help me it would be much appreciated
yasmin
[email protected]