Perfect constitution or Vichai’s ‘work in progress’ constitution – none of it really matters unless there is a change in attitude/behavior from most sections of Thai society – from the elites, politicians, military & police all the way down to the voting masses.
Instead of this nonsense at Prem’s house, the No leadership should be running a practical field campaign against the junta’s charter.
On the other hand, I don’t think Thai Rak Thai and the No campaign are one in the same, but if they were, the mobilization of that membership base for peaceful purposes wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Unfortunately, the military has a tight lid on the provinces(with arrests of leaders and confiscations of materials), so I doubt even a peaceful and legal campaign against the junta and its charter would be allowed to happen.
I think the door to door pro-YES campaign has already started.
My dear little wife told me the other day that she had to vote for Yutthitham (i.e. justice) next month, so she can’t come and stay in Bangkok just yet. This is the first time she’s taken an interest in voting or even talked about it, so I’m proud of her. I’m not going to try to influence her vote and as for me, if I was Thai, I don’t know what I’d do. I would certainly want to get out of this political-economic limbo that’s costing the country big-time and I know you’ll throw eggs at me, but I don’t think Surayud is all to blame. He doesn’t have a mandate to act as an executive like Anand. He just barely got away with the Japan-Thai economic cooperation agreement. I believe Pasuk about the dangers of the new constitution though. Does anyone know where you can get the recent 15 page paper that came out last week?
Well explain to me Srithanonchai why Thaksin needed to buy another ‘landslide’ if it was not to protect and bury his ‘skeletons’?
But I give you another of my ‘conclusion’ (or Srithanonchai’s polite term for b.s.). Thailand does NOT need a perfect constitution to keep its modernization and economy humming. Everytime Thailand got a ‘perfect’ constitution, some joker-megalomaniac a-la Thaksin or a-la Chavez, would opportunistically walk in to ruin the ‘mirage of perfection’ . . . and in effect ruin everything.
An ‘imperfect’ Thai constitution is exactly what Thailand needs. That keeps everyone on their toes . . . doing backdoor deals to preserve their vested interests while trying NOT to rock the fragile stability and peace of the Kingdom.
That means that in an imperfect Thai consitution, everybody is unhappy and discontentedd . . . and that is the way it should be. The Thai constitution should always be a ‘work-in-progress’ and never a completed masterpiece. Just as the Thai people should question their leaders and their motives constantly, so too should the Thai people keep asking probing questions about their work-in-progress Thai constitution.
If the government continues with its current policy direction of making a joke out of the referendum in order to have it passed at all costs, it will not get the recognition of the international community for its result.
UNQUOTE
Seems like a good reason to let it happen. Let them breath the full carbon dioxide of international distain. Just don’t let that wanker Thaksin take all the credit
Is the TRT or ex-TRT 14 million strength membership for real or merely bought?
If the idiotic TRT executives were not being idiotic (idiotically trying to resurret the lost Thaksin cause), they could have harnessed those 14 million members, if those members are not mythical, to do the house-to-house campaign for their pro-Nos to the junta authored constitution.
I agree with Vichai. It’s a bit like arriving at the battlefield and finding that you’ve left 90% of your troops behind, and you still decide to fight. It’s time to go back to grassroots and build the ‘revolution’ from Lego brick 1. The constitution is a lost cause. Why waste energy on an unwinnable cause. Get rid of this bunch of naive/jaded/gone greedy left and work with people who KNOW they want socialism or social democracy. If the government can’t provide people with the bare necessities, then its time to create a network in which ordinary people can provide their own necessities and in so doing increasingly and very gradually isolate the dinosaur pro-royalist & Thaksinite elements.
It is essential to realize that Thaksin wished/wishes to usurp the current Premist elite that has taken the monarchy under its wing for its own selfish purposes. Popularism was how he hoped to acheive that. He certainly had no intention to usher in a more equitable society.
Why Srithanonchai that was a conclusion and not an analysis.
You asked why it was necessary for Thaksin to buy his landslide at Y2005 election. Like I said because Thaksin knew he had all of those skeletons to protect . . . more ‘honest mistakes’ . . . and a big conflict of interest sale of the decade deal, Those tax-evasion cases too. Thaksin needed those landslides.
More importantly Thaksin must have realized that those extrajudicial killings he directed during his anti-drugs madness were ‘real skieletons’ that could literally hound him straight to jail. Thaksin needed to buy a much bigger landslide in Y2005 elections, no doubt about it.
If the pro-NO’s are smart, they should keep up the pressure to diisseminate their ‘No to the Constitution’ literature and campaigns.
Those pro-Thaksins who rioted at Prem’s residence are idiots.
They should have been out at the streets on a house-to-house campaign to explain the flaws of the new junta-authored constitution. At least that is how I would have done it.
Getting arrested for being a loud pro-NO to the constitution is a good way to be recognized as a true-democracy (not a truethaksin) adherent.
If the government continues with its current policy direction of making a joke out of the referendum in order to have it passed at all costs, it will not get the recognition of the international community for its result.
Police confiscated 4,000 no-vote posters in the Duang Pratheep Foundation (the posters are a color version of the ads that have appeared in Matichon).
No-vote raid ‘illegal’, says election official
Police claim seizure of anti-charter posters was military order
Published on July 29, 2007
Police have raided the Duang Prateep Foundation and confiscated 4,000 posters encouraging votes against the junta-sponsored draft charter.
The posters carried the message: “It’s not illegal to vote against the draft constitution”.
No one has been charged fol?lowing the seizure.
Anti-referendum activists said police had told them they were acting on military orders.
“They could not cite any law to back up their actions,” said anti-charter campaigner Sombat Boon-ngam-anong. “It’s ludicrous. The police know full well; so why are they acting upon the orders of the military?”
Election Commissioner Sodsri Satayathum said nothing could be done legally against posters because a referendum bill had yet to be passed.
Former senator Prateep Ungsongtham Hata complained to the Port Authority station that police had committed an “unlawful” act. She cited the nullified 1997 charter stipulating citizens’ rights to oppose an unlawful government and that people had a right and duty to peacefully oppose the junta’s draft charter.
At press time police had refused to return the posters and said they would investigate whether their message was illegal or could cause a public disturbance.
Thanaphol Eiwsakul, a coordinator of the 19 September Network Against the Coup and poster publisher told The Nation he believed the police had acted unlawfully.
“We may sell and distribute more posters in front of National Police Headquarters on Monday,” he said.
Meanwhile, the anti-coup protest-leaders detained since Thursday evening were barred from receiving visitors this weekend.
Thida Tojirakarn, wife of jailed leader Weng Tojirakarn, was turned back yesterday. Thida became upset and vocal.
Another leader and veteran politician Veera Musigapong appeared worried, it is said.
As a kind of side issue, I am wondering why Prem lives where he does, and how he gets to stay there? Wasn’t it the PM’s house? Did he just stay on in 1989?
Srithanonchai’s assertion is supported by most reputable academic commentators and observers. Vichai, don’t you recall complaints that Thaksin had been devilishly clever by converting old-fashioned vote-buying into pork barrel-style policy? The latter was said (at the time) to have reduced the need for the former.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
A free debate?
Perfect constitution or Vichai’s ‘work in progress’ constitution – none of it really matters unless there is a change in attitude/behavior from most sections of Thai society – from the elites, politicians, military & police all the way down to the voting masses.
Who will start the ball rolling and change first?
A free debate?
I agree with Vichai.
Instead of this nonsense at Prem’s house, the No leadership should be running a practical field campaign against the junta’s charter.
On the other hand, I don’t think Thai Rak Thai and the No campaign are one in the same, but if they were, the mobilization of that membership base for peaceful purposes wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Unfortunately, the military has a tight lid on the provinces(with arrests of leaders and confiscations of materials), so I doubt even a peaceful and legal campaign against the junta and its charter would be allowed to happen.
Referendum in the gloom
Re Vichai No.9:
*blinking eyes astonishedly*
I agree with what you said 100 percent, especially in the last paragraph.
In other news: Hell is reporting daytime temperatures with lows of -10 F/ -23 C.
A free debate?
I think the door to door pro-YES campaign has already started.
My dear little wife told me the other day that she had to vote for Yutthitham (i.e. justice) next month, so she can’t come and stay in Bangkok just yet. This is the first time she’s taken an interest in voting or even talked about it, so I’m proud of her. I’m not going to try to influence her vote and as for me, if I was Thai, I don’t know what I’d do. I would certainly want to get out of this political-economic limbo that’s costing the country big-time and I know you’ll throw eggs at me, but I don’t think Surayud is all to blame. He doesn’t have a mandate to act as an executive like Anand. He just barely got away with the Japan-Thai economic cooperation agreement. I believe Pasuk about the dangers of the new constitution though. Does anyone know where you can get the recent 15 page paper that came out last week?
Referendum in the gloom
Well explain to me Srithanonchai why Thaksin needed to buy another ‘landslide’ if it was not to protect and bury his ‘skeletons’?
But I give you another of my ‘conclusion’ (or Srithanonchai’s polite term for b.s.). Thailand does NOT need a perfect constitution to keep its modernization and economy humming. Everytime Thailand got a ‘perfect’ constitution, some joker-megalomaniac a-la Thaksin or a-la Chavez, would opportunistically walk in to ruin the ‘mirage of perfection’ . . . and in effect ruin everything.
An ‘imperfect’ Thai constitution is exactly what Thailand needs. That keeps everyone on their toes . . . doing backdoor deals to preserve their vested interests while trying NOT to rock the fragile stability and peace of the Kingdom.
That means that in an imperfect Thai consitution, everybody is unhappy and discontentedd . . . and that is the way it should be. The Thai constitution should always be a ‘work-in-progress’ and never a completed masterpiece. Just as the Thai people should question their leaders and their motives constantly, so too should the Thai people keep asking probing questions about their work-in-progress Thai constitution.
A free debate?
Srithanonchai | July 29th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
If the government continues with its current policy direction of making a joke out of the referendum in order to have it passed at all costs, it will not get the recognition of the international community for its result.
UNQUOTE
Seems like a good reason to let it happen. Let them breath the full carbon dioxide of international distain. Just don’t let that wanker Thaksin take all the credit
A free debate?
‘resurrect’ I meant, not ressurect.
A free debate?
Is the TRT or ex-TRT 14 million strength membership for real or merely bought?
If the idiotic TRT executives were not being idiotic (idiotically trying to resurret the lost Thaksin cause), they could have harnessed those 14 million members, if those members are not mythical, to do the house-to-house campaign for their pro-Nos to the junta authored constitution.
Like I said, good luck to you Pro-No’s!
A free debate?
“They should have been out at the streets on a house-to-house campaign…” >> Quite an agreeable suggestion, I think.
Referendum in the gloom
Vichai, you seem to have an overabundance of conclusions…
A free debate?
I agree with Vichai. It’s a bit like arriving at the battlefield and finding that you’ve left 90% of your troops behind, and you still decide to fight. It’s time to go back to grassroots and build the ‘revolution’ from Lego brick 1. The constitution is a lost cause. Why waste energy on an unwinnable cause. Get rid of this bunch of naive/jaded/gone greedy left and work with people who KNOW they want socialism or social democracy. If the government can’t provide people with the bare necessities, then its time to create a network in which ordinary people can provide their own necessities and in so doing increasingly and very gradually isolate the dinosaur pro-royalist & Thaksinite elements.
It is essential to realize that Thaksin wished/wishes to usurp the current Premist elite that has taken the monarchy under its wing for its own selfish purposes. Popularism was how he hoped to acheive that. He certainly had no intention to usher in a more equitable society.
Thailand’s crown prince
What crown prince with an ailing father takes a TWO MONTH holiday in Sweden?
Interesting and slightly scary times in Thailand
True Thailand?
hmmmmm.
It would not be sartorially correct to wear yellow when your underpants and socks are blazing red.
Ask Andrew and Patiwat what color is between themselves and their Calvins . . .
Referendum in the gloom
Why Srithanonchai that was a conclusion and not an analysis.
You asked why it was necessary for Thaksin to buy his landslide at Y2005 election. Like I said because Thaksin knew he had all of those skeletons to protect . . . more ‘honest mistakes’ . . . and a big conflict of interest sale of the decade deal, Those tax-evasion cases too. Thaksin needed those landslides.
More importantly Thaksin must have realized that those extrajudicial killings he directed during his anti-drugs madness were ‘real skieletons’ that could literally hound him straight to jail. Thaksin needed to buy a much bigger landslide in Y2005 elections, no doubt about it.
A free debate?
Didn’t I say that soldiers are dumb?
If the pro-NO’s are smart, they should keep up the pressure to diisseminate their ‘No to the Constitution’ literature and campaigns.
Those pro-Thaksins who rioted at Prem’s residence are idiots.
They should have been out at the streets on a house-to-house campaign to explain the flaws of the new junta-authored constitution. At least that is how I would have done it.
Getting arrested for being a loud pro-NO to the constitution is a good way to be recognized as a true-democracy (not a truethaksin) adherent.
Well good luck to you pro-No’s!
A free debate?
If the government continues with its current policy direction of making a joke out of the referendum in order to have it passed at all costs, it will not get the recognition of the international community for its result.
A free debate?
Police confiscated 4,000 no-vote posters in the Duang Pratheep Foundation (the posters are a color version of the ads that have appeared in Matichon).
No-vote raid ‘illegal’, says election official
Police claim seizure of anti-charter posters was military order
Published on July 29, 2007
Police have raided the Duang Prateep Foundation and confiscated 4,000 posters encouraging votes against the junta-sponsored draft charter.
The posters carried the message: “It’s not illegal to vote against the draft constitution”.
No one has been charged fol?lowing the seizure.
Anti-referendum activists said police had told them they were acting on military orders.
“They could not cite any law to back up their actions,” said anti-charter campaigner Sombat Boon-ngam-anong. “It’s ludicrous. The police know full well; so why are they acting upon the orders of the military?”
Election Commissioner Sodsri Satayathum said nothing could be done legally against posters because a referendum bill had yet to be passed.
Former senator Prateep Ungsongtham Hata complained to the Port Authority station that police had committed an “unlawful” act. She cited the nullified 1997 charter stipulating citizens’ rights to oppose an unlawful government and that people had a right and duty to peacefully oppose the junta’s draft charter.
At press time police had refused to return the posters and said they would investigate whether their message was illegal or could cause a public disturbance.
Thanaphol Eiwsakul, a coordinator of the 19 September Network Against the Coup and poster publisher told The Nation he believed the police had acted unlawfully.
“We may sell and distribute more posters in front of National Police Headquarters on Monday,” he said.
Meanwhile, the anti-coup protest-leaders detained since Thursday evening were barred from receiving visitors this weekend.
Thida Tojirakarn, wife of jailed leader Weng Tojirakarn, was turned back yesterday. Thida became upset and vocal.
Another leader and veteran politician Veera Musigapong appeared worried, it is said.
Pravit Rojanaphruk,
Jumpol Nopthip
Referendum in the gloom
This isn’t meant as an analysis, right, Vichai?
United Front statement
As a kind of side issue, I am wondering why Prem lives where he does, and how he gets to stay there? Wasn’t it the PM’s house? Did he just stay on in 1989?
Referendum in the gloom
Srithanonchai’s assertion is supported by most reputable academic commentators and observers. Vichai, don’t you recall complaints that Thaksin had been devilishly clever by converting old-fashioned vote-buying into pork barrel-style policy? The latter was said (at the time) to have reduced the need for the former.