I strongly support the investigation & prosecution of anyone holding public office who break the law. Thaksin’s alleged concealment needs to be investigated, and if found to be intentional then the appropriate punishment under the law should be meted out. But it should not stop at Thaksin. The same standard should be applied to all politicians, soldiers, bureaucrat, or privy councillor. The fundamental problem underlying much of Thailand’s ills is the unfair application of law. If I have any criticism of the current moral leader of the country, it is this: why doesn’t he use his prestige and position to stamp out the culture of corruption in his government and military? Sure it will be a dangerous path for his Institution, but isn’t a measure of a true leader of the people his willingness to risk his own position to advocate for and lead difficult change for the sake of the people, rather than take the safe road to that seems to have as its primary goal the preservation of his own and his institution’s status?
Is it possible that your demonised Democrats, New Mandala, are actually making some sense out of the sufficiency economy concept and taking the “sustainability” aspect of it and promoting it in a manner that might see it benefit some communities in a city that surely can do with some kind of guidance in terms of sustainable living?
My confusion here is about law. If, as you state, the reference to de facto ownership indicates the illegal use of nominees, then it sounds like Thaksin is fair game. My problem is it’s not clear what he is supposed to have done wrong, and how this apparent misrepresentation would have harmed people. If I sound excessively thick, it’s just that I have absolutely no background in Thai law and I find that Thai and foreign journalists often do a very poor job at explaining the ins and outs to their lay audiences.
I really feel these journos need to do a better job because people have such an emotional reaction to Thaksin. For example, I absolutely loathe him. Others, to my amazement, regard him as a friend to the poor and the best thing since chocolate cake. Hardly anyone has a muted opinion. In this context, all of us need to be better informed so we can accurately judge what is happening instead of forming conclusions based on our prejudices (which is what I have been doing for the past year).
Anyway, nga old cobber, it sounds like you have half a clue about this stuff. Care to post some weblinks for the benefit of the masses?
Seriously said: “Well picked up Andrew. This is the first thing that occurred to me. As Thaksin was seen to be an asset by the big end of town, I can hardly imagine that they would have felt cheated had they known that the old fox owned 80% rather than 60% of this company.”
1) Since the DSI has not yet filed formal charges with the Office of Attorney General, on what legal basis is the DSI chief threatening Thaksin with an arrest warrant?
My understanding he can be arrested if he fails to appear 3 times. From a report in The Nation: Department of Special Investigation director-general Sunai Manomai-udom said yesterday representatives of SC Asset, the family’s property company, and Busaba Damapong, the wife of Pojaman’s step-brother Bhanapot must also turn up to be officially informed of the charges.
“All must come in person, including Thaksin who cannot use political circumstances as an excuse or authorise any representatives,” he said.
“In a criminal case, representatives are not applicable. If the charged individuals intentionally avoid meeting the investigating officers, they face an arrest warrant. If they are abroad, they will be extradited.” Sunai said technically the accused could postpone their appearances three times. Only then could police issue arrest warrants.
2) In “that percentage excluded their de facto ownership of two nominee companies…,” what is meant by de facto? Did they own the two companies or not?
It looks like he had nominess owning the nominee companies, hence the use of ‘de facto ownership’.
This rabble are just complete low life.
perhaps they ought to look at some history books and see how Lee Kuan YeW saved Singapore from becoming the Cuba of South East Asia.
If Singapore had gone like Cuba then most of this protesting rabble would not even be in higher education.
As to the Singaporean overseas students – that lot would be in factories and not enjoying a nice well funded higher education.
Isn’t it just typical that the economic strength of Singapore is not even acknowledged by this type of low life rabble.
These lawyers often get up my nose. Singapore is one of the most succesful countries on the planet.
This is thanks to the policies pursued by Lee Kuan Yew. If his human rights record was as bad as some of these nutters think it is then no way would Singapore be as succesful as it is.
Self righteousness such as is practised by so many in the legal profession ignores the fundamental realities of life.
1) Since the DSI has not yet filed formal charges with the Office of Attorney General, on what legal basis is the DSI chief threatening Thaksin with an arrest warrant?
2) In “that percentage excluded their de facto ownership of two nominee companies…,” what is meant by de facto? Did they own the two companies or not?
I’ll start to take all this stuff about being “self-sufficient” more seriously when those who most loudly call for it start to redistribute their wealth and live more modestly. I should have been shocked — but wasn’t — when I discovered recently that Thailand is more unequal than Nigeria with respect to income distribution (check out the CIA World Factbook). The feelthy rich in Thailand, like the feelthy rich everywhere, are utterly shameless.
>>”It’s time, I think, to call a spade a spade – the “sufficiency economy” concept is a piece of lazy ideological madness that is being used as a fig leaf of royal legitimacy on the policy ideas (using the term generously) of those who have no idea”
Andrew: care to expand on that? Bit of a sweeping statement!
Well picked up Andrew. This is the first thing that occurred to me. As Thaksin was seen to be an asset by the big end of town, I can hardly imagine that they would have felt cheated had they known that the old fox owned 80% rather than 60% of this company.
But then again, I know absolutely nothing about finance. Perhaps this is something to be aghast at. If some whiz kid out there can explain all this, so much the better.
“New Mandala would welcome other inspirational slogans (particularly those in auspicious triplicate) from Thailand, southeast Asia or further afield that could also provide guidance to troubled folk in the modern world.”
“No pain, no gain.” – Jane Fonda
“What does not kill you will make you stronger” – Anonymous.
(Often used to help people to swallow the bitter pill of critical self-improvement)
Plus numerous others from my trusty Northern Thai Sayings (Suphasit) book that I left in Bangkok. Will provide later. My personal favorite about vague language and argument (using an anology from the human digestive system) I cannot quote because even though hardy farmer folk would good-heartedly laugh, it might be considered insulting in urban contexts.
Srithanonchai – In some respects it would be beneficial if Thai’s did become more farang, just like it in others it would be good if farang became more like Thai.
HMK is not alone in banging his head against a brick wall over a long period – it’s a pity more attention was also not paid to others offering sensible advice like Mechai V & Buddhadasa, or even Phra Bodhirak & Sulak, instead of the fortune tellers & demagogues.
Srithanonchai, thank you for capturing us the atmosphere of the protest. You did a great job! Please take care when you go there to observe again the next time. I am sure you will be there, won’t you?
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Thaksin come home!
I strongly support the investigation & prosecution of anyone holding public office who break the law. Thaksin’s alleged concealment needs to be investigated, and if found to be intentional then the appropriate punishment under the law should be meted out. But it should not stop at Thaksin. The same standard should be applied to all politicians, soldiers, bureaucrat, or privy councillor. The fundamental problem underlying much of Thailand’s ills is the unfair application of law. If I have any criticism of the current moral leader of the country, it is this: why doesn’t he use his prestige and position to stamp out the culture of corruption in his government and military? Sure it will be a dangerous path for his Institution, but isn’t a measure of a true leader of the people his willingness to risk his own position to advocate for and lead difficult change for the sake of the people, rather than take the safe road to that seems to have as its primary goal the preservation of his own and his institution’s status?
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
From those at the top to those at the bottom:
Be Content, Be Quiet, Obay.
From those at the bottom to those at the top:
Be Accountable, Be Lawful, Begone.
The sufficiency fig leaf
Is it possible that your demonised Democrats, New Mandala, are actually making some sense out of the sufficiency economy concept and taking the “sustainability” aspect of it and promoting it in a manner that might see it benefit some communities in a city that surely can do with some kind of guidance in terms of sustainable living?
Thaksin come home!
Good point nganadeeleg.
My confusion here is about law. If, as you state, the reference to de facto ownership indicates the illegal use of nominees, then it sounds like Thaksin is fair game. My problem is it’s not clear what he is supposed to have done wrong, and how this apparent misrepresentation would have harmed people. If I sound excessively thick, it’s just that I have absolutely no background in Thai law and I find that Thai and foreign journalists often do a very poor job at explaining the ins and outs to their lay audiences.
I really feel these journos need to do a better job because people have such an emotional reaction to Thaksin. For example, I absolutely loathe him. Others, to my amazement, regard him as a friend to the poor and the best thing since chocolate cake. Hardly anyone has a muted opinion. In this context, all of us need to be better informed so we can accurately judge what is happening instead of forming conclusions based on our prejudices (which is what I have been doing for the past year).
Anyway, nga old cobber, it sounds like you have half a clue about this stuff. Care to post some weblinks for the benefit of the masses?
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
Can I play too?
– Corruption, Greed & Ego
– Superstition, Patronage & Ignorance
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
Jon, just have to say because ‘anonymous’ offends me, “What does not kill you will make you stronger” was said by Nietzsche 🙂
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
Nation, Religion, King doesn’t work any more.
These days, we have to be very explicit: Self-sufficiency, Thammayut, Bhumibol.
Lest we end up getting Thaksin, Mahanikai, Vajiralongkorn.
Thaksin come home!
Seriously said: “Well picked up Andrew. This is the first thing that occurred to me. As Thaksin was seen to be an asset by the big end of town, I can hardly imagine that they would have felt cheated had they known that the old fox owned 80% rather than 60% of this company.”
What’s the point of having laws?
Thaksin come home!
1) Since the DSI has not yet filed formal charges with the Office of Attorney General, on what legal basis is the DSI chief threatening Thaksin with an arrest warrant?
My understanding he can be arrested if he fails to appear 3 times. From a report in The Nation:
Department of Special Investigation director-general Sunai Manomai-udom said yesterday representatives of SC Asset, the family’s property company, and Busaba Damapong, the wife of Pojaman’s step-brother Bhanapot must also turn up to be officially informed of the charges.
“All must come in person, including Thaksin who cannot use political circumstances as an excuse or authorise any representatives,” he said.
“In a criminal case, representatives are not applicable. If the charged individuals intentionally avoid meeting the investigating officers, they face an arrest warrant. If they are abroad, they will be extradited.”
Sunai said technically the accused could postpone their appearances three times. Only then could police issue arrest warrants.
2) In “that percentage excluded their de facto ownership of two nominee companies…,” what is meant by de facto? Did they own the two companies or not?
It looks like he had nominess owning the nominee companies, hence the use of ‘de facto ownership’.
“Lee Kuan Yew – ANU is not for you!”
This rabble are just complete low life.
perhaps they ought to look at some history books and see how Lee Kuan YeW saved Singapore from becoming the Cuba of South East Asia.
If Singapore had gone like Cuba then most of this protesting rabble would not even be in higher education.
As to the Singaporean overseas students – that lot would be in factories and not enjoying a nice well funded higher education.
Isn’t it just typical that the economic strength of Singapore is not even acknowledged by this type of low life rabble.
ANU College of Law condemns Lee’s degree
These lawyers often get up my nose. Singapore is one of the most succesful countries on the planet.
This is thanks to the policies pursued by Lee Kuan Yew. If his human rights record was as bad as some of these nutters think it is then no way would Singapore be as succesful as it is.
Self righteousness such as is practised by so many in the legal profession ignores the fundamental realities of life.
Thaksin come home!
Two further questions:
1) Since the DSI has not yet filed formal charges with the Office of Attorney General, on what legal basis is the DSI chief threatening Thaksin with an arrest warrant?
2) In “that percentage excluded their de facto ownership of two nominee companies…,” what is meant by de facto? Did they own the two companies or not?
The sufficiency fig leaf
I’ll start to take all this stuff about being “self-sufficient” more seriously when those who most loudly call for it start to redistribute their wealth and live more modestly. I should have been shocked — but wasn’t — when I discovered recently that Thailand is more unequal than Nigeria with respect to income distribution (check out the CIA World Factbook). The feelthy rich in Thailand, like the feelthy rich everywhere, are utterly shameless.
>>”It’s time, I think, to call a spade a spade – the “sufficiency economy” concept is a piece of lazy ideological madness that is being used as a fig leaf of royal legitimacy on the policy ideas (using the term generously) of those who have no idea”
Andrew: care to expand on that? Bit of a sweeping statement!
Thaksin come home!
Well picked up Andrew. This is the first thing that occurred to me. As Thaksin was seen to be an asset by the big end of town, I can hardly imagine that they would have felt cheated had they known that the old fox owned 80% rather than 60% of this company.
But then again, I know absolutely nothing about finance. Perhaps this is something to be aghast at. If some whiz kid out there can explain all this, so much the better.
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
Nation, Religion, King?
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
“New Mandala would welcome other inspirational slogans (particularly those in auspicious triplicate) from Thailand, southeast Asia or further afield that could also provide guidance to troubled folk in the modern world.”
“No pain, no gain.” – Jane Fonda
“What does not kill you will make you stronger” – Anonymous.
(Often used to help people to swallow the bitter pill of critical self-improvement)
Plus numerous others from my trusty Northern Thai Sayings (Suphasit) book that I left in Bangkok. Will provide later. My personal favorite about vague language and argument (using an anology from the human digestive system) I cannot quote because even though hardy farmer folk would good-heartedly laugh, it might be considered insulting in urban contexts.
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
Happy and Peppy and Bursting with Love?
http://www.oddcouple.info/lyrics.html
Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship protests, Bangkok
Those “dictators” can’t even get Pojaman to turn up to testify to the ASC (she’s now seeking her third delay – this time she’s aking for another 1 month delay).
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/19/headlines/headlines_30037259.php
Also looks like the DSI has issued the first actual charges today, and both Mr & Mrs will have to attend later this month:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/19/headlines/headlines_30037267.php
I haven’t studied the case/charges, but it looks like things might liven up soon.
The sufficiency fig leaf
Srithanonchai – In some respects it would be beneficial if Thai’s did become more farang, just like it in others it would be good if farang became more like Thai.
HMK is not alone in banging his head against a brick wall over a long period – it’s a pity more attention was also not paid to others offering sensible advice like Mechai V & Buddhadasa, or even Phra Bodhirak & Sulak, instead of the fortune tellers & demagogues.
Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship protests, Bangkok
Srithanonchai, thank you for capturing us the atmosphere of the protest. You did a great job! Please take care when you go there to observe again the next time. I am sure you will be there, won’t you?