Re: Comment 16
Jon Fernquest :
“Not “electoral sabotage” but cleaning the toxic waste of rent-seeking.
How many years has it taken to clean up the rent-seeking mess that Suharto left with his FUNCINPEC party?”
I thought Suharto’s party was the Golkar, and FUNCINPEC belongs to the cambodian?!
” Because Thailand has a wise King …”
Well, LUCKY for me, I am old enough to remember his WISDOM in PERSONALLY choosing Mr.Thanin Kraiwichian in October 1976. Mr.Thanin, now a Privy Councilers, is of course widely regarded as one of the MOST REMARKABLE PMs in Thai history (well, in SOME sense anyway).
“Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin told a nationwide TV audience that the Council for National Security will press for a pardon for the Thai Rak Thai party executives who were banned from politics by the Constitution Tribunal – to promote reconciliation.”
“Once the act is endorsed,” he said, the banned “Thai Rak Thai executives will be freed from the Constitution Tribunal’s ruling and will be able to play active roles in the political arena, particularly in the forthcoming election.”
“The Democrats threw up immediate opposition to the idea. Party spokesmen said that members of Thai Rak Thai members had supported laws that gave benefit to their supporters while damaging the country. Therefore, they should all share responsibility, and be jointly punished.”
“But at least formal and procedural justice was adequately observed in the conduct of the election fraud cases” > The core problem, besides the retroactive application of a coup announcement, is the section of the political party law that deals with the reasons for the dissolution of parties. It is worth trying to define the legal terms used in article 66 (1) – (4).
No (4) seems to be the catch-all phrase used by previous military governments to suppress all sorts of opponents — because they had somehow violated “national security.”
In other words, whatever the procedural justice looked like, and even what the facts of illegal acts by Thammarak and Phongsak were, the core legal problem was to subsume their acts under the legal terms laid down in article 66 (1) – (4). As for TRT, they were accused to have violated nos. (1) and (3), while the Democrats were accused of having violated nos. (2) and (3).
He had a funnier joke in his article published in the Bangkok Post two days after the coup: that the use of tanks and guns to overthrow an elected government was “non-violent”.
Chaiwat and his peers, both Thai and Farang, can go on cracking joke amongst themselves. When he and his academic friends vanished from earth, we will pile their work on the shelf of ‘Thailand’s history of coup-making and social consensus’.
Saraburian it depends on whether you believe the generals are puppets of the king, or free agents with their own goals and ambitions whose freedom to act is only constrained by their need for legitimacy which can only come from endorsement by this King. I tend to believe in the latter, which is why I think the CNS is dangerous and very bad for the country. Many Thais seem to believe in the former, which is probably why they have been so accepting of the coup and expect the future to be alright because they believe HMK is in control.
Jon, that article by Chang Noi you quoted is one of Chang Noi’s worst ever (and I’m a fan of the guy). From the full article: The mobile phone business was essentially an import business with after-sales service. There was no intrinsic reason it should create vast wealth.
The stupidity of Chang Noi’s reasoning is appalling. For one, doesn’t he realize that for a mobile phone to work, you need to spend billions of dollars installing a mobile network? Those steel towers you see everywhere don’t sprout from seeds, and they certainly aren’t for decoration.
And if there is no intrinsic reason the mobile phone business should create vast wealth, then why have risk-taking mobile phone companies and businessmen throughout world created such great wealth? Telenor’s home market has only 5 million people, but somehow it used that market as a launching pad to expand into dozens of countries, including Thailand. Ted Rogers (of Canada’s Rogers Wireless) generated much more wealth in much less time.
Chang Noi might have legit issues with Thaksin, but he shouldn’t deny that Thaksin made his billions in a difficult and risky business. Thailand’s mobile telecom industry is anything if but hypercompetitive. If it were so easy to make a money through political power, ask Saprang Kalayanamitr why his Thai Mobile venture is going bankrupt.
since you enjoy laughing at your own trite jokes Andrew Walker, allow Vichai N his below:
It seems all the missing Thai constitution pages have all resurfaced at Manchester City . . . and that would account for repeating mention of \’rule of law\’ from a prominent Thai resident from that part of the world.
Before Thaksinomics, the going rate was 10% and the Kingdom tolerated it. Thaksinomics raised the going rate to minimum 30% take-it-or-leave-it and that led to discontent and subversive sentiments from those whose pockets sufferred the most. After Thaksinomics was \’Sufficiency\” and many were thinking, hoping that would mean less than 10%.
iriejay do NOT be surprised if at New Mandala you meet a lot of self-proclaimed democrats who will insist that democracy and Thaksin Shinawatra are synonymous and inseparable. And not only that, but also during Thaksin, Thailand had a true ‘rule of law’ (despite those thousands of victims extrajudicially killed during Thaksin’s rule) and many bending of laws to benefit an exclusive group of TRT business interests.
Just like those 111 TRT executives who were unrepentant, unapologetic and in denial, so too are the many in the New Mandala who pretend, with righteous outrage of course, that TRT had an ideology, that TRT was NOT a Shinawatra Group subsidiary enterprise, and that TRT had the interest of the Kingdom, and not their collective 111 pockets, at heart.
The coup of course was extraconstitutional. But at least formal and procedural justice was adequately observed in the conduct of the election fraud cases against TRT, Democrat and other smaller political parties. As you observed iriejay, those victims of Thaksin’s extrajudicial rampage were selectively excluded from Thaksin’s rule of law, that Thaksin now so publicly embraces.
[…] and socially complex pressures on water resources. I have provided a short report on my visit on New Mandala. I am hoping to maintain some research connection with Prachin Buri and will be spending some time […]
AHRC: This is strange. When a Thai court sentenced the previous election commissioners to jail terms, the AHRC was full of praise for the verdict. With the anti-TRT verdict, they see the Thai justice system in danger. Both verdicts were in the tradition of “rule by law” rather than “rule of law.” So, maybe, the AHRC could try and arrive at a consistent position on this point?
I’m new here, but is this sarcasm? and just for clarity I think FUNCINPEC is Cambodia and Golkar is Suharto and you probably mean CPP in terms of Cambodian rent seeking mess. And the rent seeking mess in Indonesia is far from being cleaned up. I sound very pessimistic but I think it is ludicrous to think that a shift towards a clean political system can be brought about a court that was appointed by a group of generals who seized power by military force rather than via the ballot box. You can’t foster democracy using means that are wholly anti-democratic.
Not “electoral sabotage” but cleaning the toxic waste of rent-seeking.
How many years has it taken to clean up the rent-seeking mess that Suharto left with his FUNCINPEC party? Thaksin was a civil **servant** and a police officer and he abused that power to manipulate the economy and become a billionaire. Because Thailand has a wise King and enough thinking people, it has been stopped.
To think the rent-seeking patronage culture in Thailand has been washed away by one court decision is to delude oneself of all reality. These are systemic problems that don’t get solved overnight. And moreover to think that a shift towards a clean political system can be brought about by a court that was appointed by a group of military generals who seized power by force is
On 30 May 2007 Thailand’s senior judges participated in a farce that was not of their making but has, thanks to their acquiescence to the country’s military regime, been made to appear one of their doing. By sanctioning a decision that was made well before 19 September 2006, they have caused immense damage to already diminished judicial institutions, with far-reaching consequences…
The Constitutional Tribunal is not a “kangaroo court”! Rather, it consists of members of the established elite of the Thai judiciary. This makes the situation so much worse compared to a situation where one simply could put the blame on some incompetent kangaroos fulfiling the orders of the CNS…
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Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Re: Comment 16
Jon Fernquest :
“Not “electoral sabotage” but cleaning the toxic waste of rent-seeking.
How many years has it taken to clean up the rent-seeking mess that Suharto left with his FUNCINPEC party?”
I thought Suharto’s party was the Golkar, and FUNCINPEC belongs to the cambodian?!
” Because Thailand has a wise King …”
Well, LUCKY for me, I am old enough to remember his WISDOM in PERSONALLY choosing Mr.Thanin Kraiwichian in October 1976. Mr.Thanin, now a Privy Councilers, is of course widely regarded as one of the MOST REMARKABLE PMs in Thai history (well, in SOME sense anyway).
Dance for health
[…] protector Ladda Tangsupachai has featured in New Mandala before with the enlightened statement that “Coyote Girls have to be in the right […]
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Is this another joke?
From the Bangkok Post’s web site:
“Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin told a nationwide TV audience that the Council for National Security will press for a pardon for the Thai Rak Thai party executives who were banned from politics by the Constitution Tribunal – to promote reconciliation.”
“Once the act is endorsed,” he said, the banned “Thai Rak Thai executives will be freed from the Constitution Tribunal’s ruling and will be able to play active roles in the political arena, particularly in the forthcoming election.”
“The Democrats threw up immediate opposition to the idea. Party spokesmen said that members of Thai Rak Thai members had supported laws that gave benefit to their supporters while damaging the country. Therefore, they should all share responsibility, and be jointly punished.”
Light relief
Ahh! I see you’re confusing the word ‘constitution’ with the words ‘photos of Bhumibol’!
The monthly periodical of royal photos is really quite good. Although, somewhat mysteriously this month the cover is simply a pair of royal coconuts.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
“But at least formal and procedural justice was adequately observed in the conduct of the election fraud cases” > The core problem, besides the retroactive application of a coup announcement, is the section of the political party law that deals with the reasons for the dissolution of parties. It is worth trying to define the legal terms used in article 66 (1) – (4).
No (4) seems to be the catch-all phrase used by previous military governments to suppress all sorts of opponents — because they had somehow violated “national security.”
In other words, whatever the procedural justice looked like, and even what the facts of illegal acts by Thammarak and Phongsak were, the core legal problem was to subsume their acts under the legal terms laid down in article 66 (1) – (4). As for TRT, they were accused to have violated nos. (1) and (3), while the Democrats were accused of having violated nos. (2) and (3).
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
“difficult and risky business” > certainly not at the time Thaksin started this business, and not so for many years afterwards.
Light relief
He had a funnier joke in his article published in the Bangkok Post two days after the coup: that the use of tanks and guns to overthrow an elected government was “non-violent”.
Thaksin on CNN
Thaksin is SHIT. He is Thailand’s Hitler.
He’ll burn in eternal hell …. and suffer for the rest of his life.
DIE DIE DIE
Light relief
Chaiwat and his peers, both Thai and Farang, can go on cracking joke amongst themselves. When he and his academic friends vanished from earth, we will pile their work on the shelf of ‘Thailand’s history of coup-making and social consensus’.
Pathetic!
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Saraburian it depends on whether you believe the generals are puppets of the king, or free agents with their own goals and ambitions whose freedom to act is only constrained by their need for legitimacy which can only come from endorsement by this King. I tend to believe in the latter, which is why I think the CNS is dangerous and very bad for the country. Many Thais seem to believe in the former, which is probably why they have been so accepting of the coup and expect the future to be alright because they believe HMK is in control.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Jon, that article by Chang Noi you quoted is one of Chang Noi’s worst ever (and I’m a fan of the guy). From the full article: The mobile phone business was essentially an import business with after-sales service. There was no intrinsic reason it should create vast wealth.
The stupidity of Chang Noi’s reasoning is appalling. For one, doesn’t he realize that for a mobile phone to work, you need to spend billions of dollars installing a mobile network? Those steel towers you see everywhere don’t sprout from seeds, and they certainly aren’t for decoration.
And if there is no intrinsic reason the mobile phone business should create vast wealth, then why have risk-taking mobile phone companies and businessmen throughout world created such great wealth? Telenor’s home market has only 5 million people, but somehow it used that market as a launching pad to expand into dozens of countries, including Thailand. Ted Rogers (of Canada’s Rogers Wireless) generated much more wealth in much less time.
Chang Noi might have legit issues with Thaksin, but he shouldn’t deny that Thaksin made his billions in a difficult and risky business. Thailand’s mobile telecom industry is anything if but hypercompetitive. If it were so easy to make a money through political power, ask Saprang Kalayanamitr why his Thai Mobile venture is going bankrupt.
Light relief
i shared this joke back in thai here:)
http://www.prachatai.com/webboard/topic.php?id=201972
thanks for a little but cute relief.
take care,
🙂
Light relief
since you enjoy laughing at your own trite jokes Andrew Walker, allow Vichai N his below:
It seems all the missing Thai constitution pages have all resurfaced at Manchester City . . . and that would account for repeating mention of \’rule of law\’ from a prominent Thai resident from that part of the world.
Before Thaksinomics, the going rate was 10% and the Kingdom tolerated it. Thaksinomics raised the going rate to minimum 30% take-it-or-leave-it and that led to discontent and subversive sentiments from those whose pockets sufferred the most. After Thaksinomics was \’Sufficiency\” and many were thinking, hoping that would mean less than 10%.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
iriejay do NOT be surprised if at New Mandala you meet a lot of self-proclaimed democrats who will insist that democracy and Thaksin Shinawatra are synonymous and inseparable. And not only that, but also during Thaksin, Thailand had a true ‘rule of law’ (despite those thousands of victims extrajudicially killed during Thaksin’s rule) and many bending of laws to benefit an exclusive group of TRT business interests.
Just like those 111 TRT executives who were unrepentant, unapologetic and in denial, so too are the many in the New Mandala who pretend, with righteous outrage of course, that TRT had an ideology, that TRT was NOT a Shinawatra Group subsidiary enterprise, and that TRT had the interest of the Kingdom, and not their collective 111 pockets, at heart.
The coup of course was extraconstitutional. But at least formal and procedural justice was adequately observed in the conduct of the election fraud cases against TRT, Democrat and other smaller political parties. As you observed iriejay, those victims of Thaksin’s extrajudicial rampage were selectively excluded from Thaksin’s rule of law, that Thaksin now so publicly embraces.
Catchment complexity
[…] and socially complex pressures on water resources. I have provided a short report on my visit on New Mandala. I am hoping to maintain some research connection with Prachin Buri and will be spending some time […]
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
AHRC: This is strange. When a Thai court sentenced the previous election commissioners to jail terms, the AHRC was full of praise for the verdict. With the anti-TRT verdict, they see the Thai justice system in danger. Both verdicts were in the tradition of “rule by law” rather than “rule of law.” So, maybe, the AHRC could try and arrive at a consistent position on this point?
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
Re: Taxi Driver’s pop quiz
Those two are hated by the King. So I don’t see why CNS, as the King’s puppets, can be compared to either of them.
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
I’m new here, but is this sarcasm? and just for clarity I think FUNCINPEC is Cambodia and Golkar is Suharto and you probably mean CPP in terms of Cambodian rent seeking mess. And the rent seeking mess in Indonesia is far from being cleaned up. I sound very pessimistic but I think it is ludicrous to think that a shift towards a clean political system can be brought about a court that was appointed by a group of generals who seized power by military force rather than via the ballot box. You can’t foster democracy using means that are wholly anti-democratic.
Not “electoral sabotage” but cleaning the toxic waste of rent-seeking.
How many years has it taken to clean up the rent-seeking mess that Suharto left with his FUNCINPEC party? Thaksin was a civil **servant** and a police officer and he abused that power to manipulate the economy and become a billionaire. Because Thailand has a wise King and enough thinking people, it has been stopped.
To think the rent-seeking patronage culture in Thailand has been washed away by one court decision is to delude oneself of all reality. These are systemic problems that don’t get solved overnight. And moreover to think that a shift towards a clean political system can be brought about by a court that was appointed by a group of military generals who seized power by force is
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
On 30 May 2007 Thailand’s senior judges participated in a farce that was not of their making but has, thanks to their acquiescence to the country’s military regime, been made to appear one of their doing. By sanctioning a decision that was made well before 19 September 2006, they have caused immense damage to already diminished judicial institutions, with far-reaching consequences…
Read whole statement:
http://www.ahrchk.net/statements/mainfile.php/2007statements/1041/
Electoral sabotage bears rich fruit
The Constitutional Tribunal is not a “kangaroo court”! Rather, it consists of members of the established elite of the Thai judiciary. This makes the situation so much worse compared to a situation where one simply could put the blame on some incompetent kangaroos fulfiling the orders of the CNS…