I don’t understand, why the self-presentation of that funny guy is discussed at all. Usually discussion only make sense, if argumnents are used that make sense. Reading the statements from such ultra-petty bourgois, I find nothing that makes sense and thus it is a waste of time to argue. You can only argue with people who are willing and ABLE to engage in reasonable discussion.
I was merely giving you some background to the issues you raise. Your assumptions about slavery on the boats and motherships just picking up slaves from onshore facilities to work at sea is facile. I’ve been on a lot of these boats. Guess what, there’s always an English speaker. Seamen always communicate. RAN like to use cards. I haven’t seen slavery on Thai boats in the Arafura, people have a choice. The industry is unregulated and non Union, it attracts some people. If you don’t like it then stay at home and play darts in the pub. Most guys learn to look after themselves quickly. Skippers and owners who rip crew off risk terminal rough justice.
Exploitation, of course. It’s not easy for those at the bottom to climb up. Protecting everyone from exploitation also prevents the minority among them from succeeding.
It was ever so. 1870-1952 some 20,000 Indonesians, some trafficked, were brought to Australia to pioneer the NW pearl fisheries. Some perished, some married and stayed, some went back and became PKI, some had saved enough to start small businesses. Susi was wrong to deport the Burmese from Maluku. Rather, she should have given them full citizenship and helped them to buy their own boats. But she has an agenda, and the ‘slavery’ beat up helps her.
Th US shrimp industry is protected by non tariff barriers including environmental and labour issues. Redefining ‘Slavery’ is a great trick to weaken price competition from new Asian sources farmed product.
You really shouldn’t rely on the ABC for anything. They don’t know even know what a trawler is.
“And, if we do consider such “royalist heckling” as wrong, why not focus more on those who are in far more real danger than Khun Ajarn Pavin, who are actually in Thailand and who are not protected by the sanctity of the academy?”
No one here is likely to acknowledge your point, Heckler. People like Pavin and Pravit Rojanaphruk are heroes to these people, brave beyond measure, and fighting for democracy and all that’s good for Thailand.
Just recently in Khaosod there was an article about Reds in Isan that included a catalogue of the horrors that some have been subject to, some since the coup, others since May 2010.
Among the people I follow on Twitter, including one commenting on this thread, this article was simply ignored.
When Pravit writes about his “two days without sunshine” as the ultimate in suffering under the boot of the evil RTA, the retweets go on for days, it gets picked up by international media, and you would almost believe that the problems in Thailand are all related to “free speech” and the dreaded LM legislation.
The terrorization of Red families by home visits from the RTA, the long terms of imprisonment for Reds found not guilty of whatever it was they were tossed into jail for, the requirement for many to “sign in” once a week with local fascisti: none of these things get the attention that heroes like Pavin and Pravit do. After all, what does democracy have to do with people like these?
And people like Nick Nostitz and his laughable defense of UDD/PT as democracy advocates spend very little time castigating Yingluck and her administration for leaving those Reds to rot in jail while they fought the good fight by ordering faulty tablet computers for grade school kids in order to improve Thai education.
I agree with the late Ben Anderson when he says that the Thai middle classes are “timid, selfish, uncultured, consumerist, and without any decent vision of the future of the country”.
And like most of their fanboys on NM, Pavin and Pravit are first and foremost bourgeoise. The fact that they are Thai seems almost meaningless beside this.
Sorry, but with friends like these, and the foaming mouths on NM, Thai democracy really doesn’t need enemies.
You do forget Mr England, that in Islam, Jewish Prophets, which are essentially all of them, except from the later line of Ishmael, starting with the Prophet Muhammad, are all co-opted in Islam. Musa, Ibrahim, Ishak, Yakub, Nuh, Harun, Ismail, Maryam (born Jewish), Sara, Isa (born Jewish) are declared as Muslim Prophets and two female “persons of interest’. They are no such thing. With the exception of Mary and Jesus, who I will (in the interest of ecumenism) hand off to the Holy See and the Protestant denominations, ALL the rest were born and died, Jews. Pope Francis recently reiterated that point when he issued a mini encyclical stating that Christian proselytization among Jews (and presumably Muslims and Hindus) was wrong and unjustified on Christian (Roman Catholic anyway) dogma. This may not please the Lefevre Clan and their medieval Latinate thinking, but it states the same principal as Jews have. We recognize Jesus and Muhammad as living prophets, but solely mortal (as does Islam vis-├а-vis Muhammad). We would never think to claim Mary or Jesus as Jewish once the claim to divinity had been issued (unless you are a Jew for Jesus), nor would we (which we don’t NOW) claim Zoroaster or Nebuchadnezzar as our Gods, even though Babylonian Jews had multiple beliefs at that time. Thus, one of the bases for Judaeo-Christian theology is “your Prophets are yours and ours are ours” and we are cool about that. This is not the case in Islam (I would mention Hinduism and Buddhism and Zoroastrianism are tolerant of many beliefs, not appropriating other’s concepts by stealth) where due to Judaic impact on Islam, through 7th Century interactions on the Arabian peninsula, led to what Jews would call concurrent beliefs (at that time); what Muslims, believing Islam to be the one true and ‘clearest’ revelation, to be superior semi-prophets, designated as Muslim (though acknowledging Jewish birth) all of course lower than the Prophet, the Nabi. In fact, none of the Jewish Prophets converted to Islam, none ever met the Nabi, and very likely would have remained Jewish if they had, especially after the Qiblah was changed from Nabi-scorned (not “holy”) Jerusalem to Makah (Mecca) during the Nabi’s reign.
“Will even this post be permitted by New Mandala or will it to be drowned out by heckling from Pavin’s own online fanclub once it’s published?”
Is it really necessary to point out a basic and key difference between actual “heckling” & the claimed “heckling” here? Seems so… The first is interruption during a live event – while the second is sequential (i.e. B doesn’t stop A… B merely follows A). How can the second be interruption when nothing gets stopped and all of A’s and B’s words are still there for all to read/re-read as they please?
To call the second “heckling” makes as little sense as claiming that down-voting somehow “drowns out” what anyone posts – a favourite refrain of some here.
Comparing Judaism and Islam, it seems important that in Judaism, the prophets are mostly distinct from the warlords, and the warlords are not treated uncritically. Islam, on the other hand has put nearly all its eggs in one basket, in which warlord and prophet are conflated and immune from criticism. That seems to me to be the mainstay of Islam’s authoritarianism, and to have set it on a collision course with the rest of humanity.
I don’t believe, like many others, that just because it is a religion, it should be let off the hook on the grounds of religious freedom. I do believe that some religions are worse than others. Islam is better than the religion of the Aztecs, for example. On the face of it Buddhism seems the best major religion, but it is too prone to bouts of foolish superstition and associated monastic corruption. It also seems to have left its adherents without a tradition of moral courage that encourages them to stand up against corrupt and barbarous régimes.
Never got the impression that Prof. Kessler is anachronistic or anti-Islamic. Nor that the ‘clash of civilizations’ is a mirage, only that it’s a great distraction from the real and ongoing historic struggle for the control of resources, influence and market share.
A nice and absolutely fitting tribute to Professor Anderson, who’s last student was a friend of mine. R.I.P. “Datuk” Benny. Your spirit will survive well after, in eight foreign languages.
Humanity is poised at a crucial fork in the road. While we are racing toward a virtual future, our maturity lags woefully behind. I’m a great advocate of sexbots, but only to the point where they undercut human sex workers, at which point the REAL problem becomes clear: just like the rest of nature, we are draining our own living bodies of all energy. A sexbot future replaces imperfect human partners with mechanical slaves who will never say no, promising endless delight, but at the cost of reducing each (participating) person to a toddler insisting on his own way in his own tiny universe. Yes, there will be a market for that, but it will not exist in the human (biological) world. Thus, the “Erotic Crisis” we face as a species (alturl.com/m6qph). I hope we survive it!
Heckler’s non-sequitur post and replicating it in another message is puzzling.If he is really ignorant of the reason that he apparently does not hear from problems in Thailand related to rights and freedom abrogation by the military-led dictatorship,perhaps he wants first-hand experience there to find out first-hand what happens when someone does try to expose the charade. In Thailand that heckler would have been applauded by the ilk now pulling the strings, but respected in fear and silence by those in Thailand who deserve and crave rights and freedom. Bombastic remarks about failure of coverage in Thailand on people striving to break free of iron chains isn’t much more than another kind of heckling.
Excellent reply by Nick Nostitz ; he made it clear to that Fascist-friendly, frivolous “Heckler” that what it is going on today in Thailand under the Royalist/Military tyranny is an outrage to any human being who cares about freedom, justice and human rights
“And, if we do consider such “royalist heckling” as wrong, why not focus more on those who are in far more real danger than Khun Ajarn Pavin, who are actually in Thailand and who are not protected by the sanctity of the academy?”
Let’s hear about those people. Pavin is relatively safer than almost every other person in Thailand right now.
And my original point still remains – does this then mean that there can be NO criticism of Pavin? And that any criticism of him is drowned out by references to his heroic status as he talks at Yale and someone calls him (it’s so appalling I can barely repeat it) a “son of a bitch”? How dreadful it must’ve been!!!! A son of a bitch!! Let’s be frank as well – there’s been far worst “hecking” just on New Mandela. Who was it who once described another journalist as “sweating like a pig”?
This entire Yale event looks fairly positive to me – academic speaks at prestigious university, gets heckled a little bit and said hecklers are escorted out. Happens all the time. Sure there’s the context but within any political struggle there are tensions. Anyone who wants serious change should get used to it – them are the battle lines. You know this.
Thailand isn’t unique in that regard and Thailand isn’t even that unique in having a brutal, vicious government.
If I could agree any more than I do, I would have to convert to idolatry. The phenomenology of Islam’s transition from a faith and a Prophet and stringent emphasis on dos and don’ts has, without doubt, become a religious octopus (or Medusa) with many extremities, each one claiming the Prophet’s birthright and mantle, and demanding that all followers bow down to the new idols of Islam, each attempting to re-fashion Islam in THEIR image, and not the Prophet’s. In this, the characterization of three phases, as laid out by Professor Kessler, is unambiguous and one need only look at how the Umrah itself, as well as the materialization of Makah, have become commercial enterprises, almost devoid of inherent faith. Finally, Malay intellectual and iconoclast, Dr Kassim Ahmad, warned Malays from wandering far from the source. He has almost begged Malays to return to the Quran and the ONE Prophet, escape idolatry, as evinced by reverence for political Imams and Shari’a Courts, and look upon the Hadith as allegory and not fact, as the Hadith was neither written by Muhammad, nor was it handed down by Allah. Kassim’s recommendations are logical within the context of removing the material and idolatrous aspects of Islam as practiced today; but he is no Wahhabist at all. He calls for reform of woman’s rights, ending of string laws regarding Aurat, Khalwat and redefining what is Nafsu and Najis in a context that is logical. In fact, Kassim is following the path of both Nadhlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah in Indonesia, Islamic reform movements that de-emphasise material and dogmatic aspects of Islam. As there is no else in Malaysia, at all, other than Kassim calling for the logical removal of the third phase described by Professor Kessler, one must fear that Malaysia might enter a fourth phase, where PAS reigns supreme, and Malaysia becomes an idolatrous Islamic State, beholden to PAS Chief Hadi Awang and similar would-be Prophets who can only lead Malaysia down the weedy garden path.
There is a simple answer. The issue here is hardly an issue of mere heckling at Yale, but that the hecklers voice with their accusations convictions which here in Thailand get people arrested and convicted to decades in prison, get people physically attacked and killed, many accused having fled into exile, the families of the accused ostracized and followed by the authorities, and have created a climate of fear and denunciation.
Equanimity? That heckling should take place in an audience like it was is not unthinkable but it is distasteful, ill-considered and not a matter on a viewpoint being contested. The international criminality behind Thainess is little short of the characteristics of jihad. Similar objectives, similar methods.
I don’t get why everyone is so upset about Pavin being heckled. Surely it goes with the territory, no?
Pavin has set himself up as yet another commentator (isn’t that pretty much all we have on Thailand? Lots of commentary, little political analysis and no genuine attempts to find long-term political solutions?) and, as such, places his commentary in a public space. Therefore a counterpoint to his position should be expected.
Are we then saying when people “heckle” him – not that I support those actions per se – it’s somehow not allowed or beyond the pale? What constitutes “reasonable” and “allowable” criticism/heckling of Pavin? Or is he above criticism in some way? I’m not suggesting royalists shouting abuse is “reasonable” (it’s not really that bad abuse in this instance) but it does often seem there’s little space for genuine critiques of the likes of Pavin. What about his attempts to create a “celebrity” cult around himself, something which does seem to ape that which surrounds Thai royalty? What about his shifts in position from anti-Red Shirt Abhisit fanboy to doyen of the pro-democracy movement? Sure people shift positions but given Pavin’s public profile and intellectual standing surely it’s appropriate to ask him why and how? Why the need for endless Facebook selfies over political solutions? Will even this post be permitted by New Mandala or will it to be drowned out by heckling from Pavin’s own online fanclub once it’s published?
And, if we do consider such “royalist heckling” as wrong, why not focus more on those who are in far more real danger than Khun Ajarn Pavin, who are actually in Thailand and who are not protected by the sanctity of the academy?
Questions, questions.
This issue could open up far more than “let’s laugh at the demented royalists again”. I mean isn’t the whole idea that “ajarns” have some sanctified status ludicrous in the very first place?
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Public lectures and protecting the King
I don’t understand, why the self-presentation of that funny guy is discussed at all. Usually discussion only make sense, if argumnents are used that make sense. Reading the statements from such ultra-petty bourgois, I find nothing that makes sense and thus it is a waste of time to argue. You can only argue with people who are willing and ABLE to engage in reasonable discussion.
The last king of Thailand?
Oh yeah Shane Tarr – and I guess the Royal Thai Opium Monopoly never existed either, in your ahistorical perspective.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
I was merely giving you some background to the issues you raise. Your assumptions about slavery on the boats and motherships just picking up slaves from onshore facilities to work at sea is facile. I’ve been on a lot of these boats. Guess what, there’s always an English speaker. Seamen always communicate. RAN like to use cards. I haven’t seen slavery on Thai boats in the Arafura, people have a choice. The industry is unregulated and non Union, it attracts some people. If you don’t like it then stay at home and play darts in the pub. Most guys learn to look after themselves quickly. Skippers and owners who rip crew off risk terminal rough justice.
Exploitation, of course. It’s not easy for those at the bottom to climb up. Protecting everyone from exploitation also prevents the minority among them from succeeding.
It was ever so. 1870-1952 some 20,000 Indonesians, some trafficked, were brought to Australia to pioneer the NW pearl fisheries. Some perished, some married and stayed, some went back and became PKI, some had saved enough to start small businesses. Susi was wrong to deport the Burmese from Maluku. Rather, she should have given them full citizenship and helped them to buy their own boats. But she has an agenda, and the ‘slavery’ beat up helps her.
Th US shrimp industry is protected by non tariff barriers including environmental and labour issues. Redefining ‘Slavery’ is a great trick to weaken price competition from new Asian sources farmed product.
You really shouldn’t rely on the ABC for anything. They don’t know even know what a trawler is.
Don’t know if this has been posted here yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IeJOnCQlj0&feature=youtu.be
Public lectures and protecting the King
“And, if we do consider such “royalist heckling” as wrong, why not focus more on those who are in far more real danger than Khun Ajarn Pavin, who are actually in Thailand and who are not protected by the sanctity of the academy?”
No one here is likely to acknowledge your point, Heckler. People like Pavin and Pravit Rojanaphruk are heroes to these people, brave beyond measure, and fighting for democracy and all that’s good for Thailand.
Just recently in Khaosod there was an article about Reds in Isan that included a catalogue of the horrors that some have been subject to, some since the coup, others since May 2010.
Among the people I follow on Twitter, including one commenting on this thread, this article was simply ignored.
When Pravit writes about his “two days without sunshine” as the ultimate in suffering under the boot of the evil RTA, the retweets go on for days, it gets picked up by international media, and you would almost believe that the problems in Thailand are all related to “free speech” and the dreaded LM legislation.
The terrorization of Red families by home visits from the RTA, the long terms of imprisonment for Reds found not guilty of whatever it was they were tossed into jail for, the requirement for many to “sign in” once a week with local fascisti: none of these things get the attention that heroes like Pavin and Pravit do. After all, what does democracy have to do with people like these?
And people like Nick Nostitz and his laughable defense of UDD/PT as democracy advocates spend very little time castigating Yingluck and her administration for leaving those Reds to rot in jail while they fought the good fight by ordering faulty tablet computers for grade school kids in order to improve Thai education.
I agree with the late Ben Anderson when he says that the Thai middle classes are “timid, selfish, uncultured, consumerist, and without any decent vision of the future of the country”.
And like most of their fanboys on NM, Pavin and Pravit are first and foremost bourgeoise. The fact that they are Thai seems almost meaningless beside this.
Sorry, but with friends like these, and the foaming mouths on NM, Thai democracy really doesn’t need enemies.
http://prachatai.org/english/node/5692 (for those whose idea of democracy stretches to include the demos)
What is “Islamism”?
I did say “nearly”, Mr Cohen. It seemed a good way of not wasting readers’ time with tiresome details of religious dogma.
What is “Islamism”?
You do forget Mr England, that in Islam, Jewish Prophets, which are essentially all of them, except from the later line of Ishmael, starting with the Prophet Muhammad, are all co-opted in Islam. Musa, Ibrahim, Ishak, Yakub, Nuh, Harun, Ismail, Maryam (born Jewish), Sara, Isa (born Jewish) are declared as Muslim Prophets and two female “persons of interest’. They are no such thing. With the exception of Mary and Jesus, who I will (in the interest of ecumenism) hand off to the Holy See and the Protestant denominations, ALL the rest were born and died, Jews. Pope Francis recently reiterated that point when he issued a mini encyclical stating that Christian proselytization among Jews (and presumably Muslims and Hindus) was wrong and unjustified on Christian (Roman Catholic anyway) dogma. This may not please the Lefevre Clan and their medieval Latinate thinking, but it states the same principal as Jews have. We recognize Jesus and Muhammad as living prophets, but solely mortal (as does Islam vis-├а-vis Muhammad). We would never think to claim Mary or Jesus as Jewish once the claim to divinity had been issued (unless you are a Jew for Jesus), nor would we (which we don’t NOW) claim Zoroaster or Nebuchadnezzar as our Gods, even though Babylonian Jews had multiple beliefs at that time. Thus, one of the bases for Judaeo-Christian theology is “your Prophets are yours and ours are ours” and we are cool about that. This is not the case in Islam (I would mention Hinduism and Buddhism and Zoroastrianism are tolerant of many beliefs, not appropriating other’s concepts by stealth) where due to Judaic impact on Islam, through 7th Century interactions on the Arabian peninsula, led to what Jews would call concurrent beliefs (at that time); what Muslims, believing Islam to be the one true and ‘clearest’ revelation, to be superior semi-prophets, designated as Muslim (though acknowledging Jewish birth) all of course lower than the Prophet, the Nabi. In fact, none of the Jewish Prophets converted to Islam, none ever met the Nabi, and very likely would have remained Jewish if they had, especially after the Qiblah was changed from Nabi-scorned (not “holy”) Jerusalem to Makah (Mecca) during the Nabi’s reign.
Public lectures and protecting the King
“Will even this post be permitted by New Mandala or will it to be drowned out by heckling from Pavin’s own online fanclub once it’s published?”
Is it really necessary to point out a basic and key difference between actual “heckling” & the claimed “heckling” here? Seems so… The first is interruption during a live event – while the second is sequential (i.e. B doesn’t stop A… B merely follows A). How can the second be interruption when nothing gets stopped and all of A’s and B’s words are still there for all to read/re-read as they please?
To call the second “heckling” makes as little sense as claiming that down-voting somehow “drowns out” what anyone posts – a favourite refrain of some here.
What is “Islamism”?
Comparing Judaism and Islam, it seems important that in Judaism, the prophets are mostly distinct from the warlords, and the warlords are not treated uncritically. Islam, on the other hand has put nearly all its eggs in one basket, in which warlord and prophet are conflated and immune from criticism. That seems to me to be the mainstay of Islam’s authoritarianism, and to have set it on a collision course with the rest of humanity.
I don’t believe, like many others, that just because it is a religion, it should be let off the hook on the grounds of religious freedom. I do believe that some religions are worse than others. Islam is better than the religion of the Aztecs, for example. On the face of it Buddhism seems the best major religion, but it is too prone to bouts of foolish superstition and associated monastic corruption. It also seems to have left its adherents without a tradition of moral courage that encourages them to stand up against corrupt and barbarous régimes.
Ben Anderson: the one and only
thanks to Mr.Anderson for big dedication and contribution in Indonesian Politic. R.I.P,…
What is “Islamism”?
Never got the impression that Prof. Kessler is anachronistic or anti-Islamic. Nor that the ‘clash of civilizations’ is a mirage, only that it’s a great distraction from the real and ongoing historic struggle for the control of resources, influence and market share.
Ben Anderson: the one and only
A nice and absolutely fitting tribute to Professor Anderson, who’s last student was a friend of mine. R.I.P. “Datuk” Benny. Your spirit will survive well after, in eight foreign languages.
Sex robots and the sex trade
Humanity is poised at a crucial fork in the road. While we are racing toward a virtual future, our maturity lags woefully behind. I’m a great advocate of sexbots, but only to the point where they undercut human sex workers, at which point the REAL problem becomes clear: just like the rest of nature, we are draining our own living bodies of all energy. A sexbot future replaces imperfect human partners with mechanical slaves who will never say no, promising endless delight, but at the cost of reducing each (participating) person to a toddler insisting on his own way in his own tiny universe. Yes, there will be a market for that, but it will not exist in the human (biological) world. Thus, the “Erotic Crisis” we face as a species (alturl.com/m6qph). I hope we survive it!
Public lectures and protecting the King
Trying to trivialize the crimes of the Royalist junta…
Disgraceful
Public lectures and protecting the King
Heckler’s non-sequitur post and replicating it in another message is puzzling.If he is really ignorant of the reason that he apparently does not hear from problems in Thailand related to rights and freedom abrogation by the military-led dictatorship,perhaps he wants first-hand experience there to find out first-hand what happens when someone does try to expose the charade. In Thailand that heckler would have been applauded by the ilk now pulling the strings, but respected in fear and silence by those in Thailand who deserve and crave rights and freedom. Bombastic remarks about failure of coverage in Thailand on people striving to break free of iron chains isn’t much more than another kind of heckling.
Public lectures and protecting the King
Excellent reply by Nick Nostitz ; he made it clear to that Fascist-friendly, frivolous “Heckler” that what it is going on today in Thailand under the Royalist/Military tyranny is an outrage to any human being who cares about freedom, justice and human rights
Public lectures and protecting the King
Yes, Nick, I made that exact point when I wrote
“And, if we do consider such “royalist heckling” as wrong, why not focus more on those who are in far more real danger than Khun Ajarn Pavin, who are actually in Thailand and who are not protected by the sanctity of the academy?”
Let’s hear about those people. Pavin is relatively safer than almost every other person in Thailand right now.
And my original point still remains – does this then mean that there can be NO criticism of Pavin? And that any criticism of him is drowned out by references to his heroic status as he talks at Yale and someone calls him (it’s so appalling I can barely repeat it) a “son of a bitch”? How dreadful it must’ve been!!!! A son of a bitch!! Let’s be frank as well – there’s been far worst “hecking” just on New Mandela. Who was it who once described another journalist as “sweating like a pig”?
This entire Yale event looks fairly positive to me – academic speaks at prestigious university, gets heckled a little bit and said hecklers are escorted out. Happens all the time. Sure there’s the context but within any political struggle there are tensions. Anyone who wants serious change should get used to it – them are the battle lines. You know this.
Thailand isn’t unique in that regard and Thailand isn’t even that unique in having a brutal, vicious government.
Get out more. You’ll get a greater perspective.
What is “Islamism”?
If I could agree any more than I do, I would have to convert to idolatry. The phenomenology of Islam’s transition from a faith and a Prophet and stringent emphasis on dos and don’ts has, without doubt, become a religious octopus (or Medusa) with many extremities, each one claiming the Prophet’s birthright and mantle, and demanding that all followers bow down to the new idols of Islam, each attempting to re-fashion Islam in THEIR image, and not the Prophet’s. In this, the characterization of three phases, as laid out by Professor Kessler, is unambiguous and one need only look at how the Umrah itself, as well as the materialization of Makah, have become commercial enterprises, almost devoid of inherent faith. Finally, Malay intellectual and iconoclast, Dr Kassim Ahmad, warned Malays from wandering far from the source. He has almost begged Malays to return to the Quran and the ONE Prophet, escape idolatry, as evinced by reverence for political Imams and Shari’a Courts, and look upon the Hadith as allegory and not fact, as the Hadith was neither written by Muhammad, nor was it handed down by Allah. Kassim’s recommendations are logical within the context of removing the material and idolatrous aspects of Islam as practiced today; but he is no Wahhabist at all. He calls for reform of woman’s rights, ending of string laws regarding Aurat, Khalwat and redefining what is Nafsu and Najis in a context that is logical. In fact, Kassim is following the path of both Nadhlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah in Indonesia, Islamic reform movements that de-emphasise material and dogmatic aspects of Islam. As there is no else in Malaysia, at all, other than Kassim calling for the logical removal of the third phase described by Professor Kessler, one must fear that Malaysia might enter a fourth phase, where PAS reigns supreme, and Malaysia becomes an idolatrous Islamic State, beholden to PAS Chief Hadi Awang and similar would-be Prophets who can only lead Malaysia down the weedy garden path.
Public lectures and protecting the King
There is a simple answer. The issue here is hardly an issue of mere heckling at Yale, but that the hecklers voice with their accusations convictions which here in Thailand get people arrested and convicted to decades in prison, get people physically attacked and killed, many accused having fled into exile, the families of the accused ostracized and followed by the authorities, and have created a climate of fear and denunciation.
Public lectures and protecting the King
Equanimity? That heckling should take place in an audience like it was is not unthinkable but it is distasteful, ill-considered and not a matter on a viewpoint being contested. The international criminality behind Thainess is little short of the characteristics of jihad. Similar objectives, similar methods.
Public lectures and protecting the King
I don’t get why everyone is so upset about Pavin being heckled. Surely it goes with the territory, no?
Pavin has set himself up as yet another commentator (isn’t that pretty much all we have on Thailand? Lots of commentary, little political analysis and no genuine attempts to find long-term political solutions?) and, as such, places his commentary in a public space. Therefore a counterpoint to his position should be expected.
Are we then saying when people “heckle” him – not that I support those actions per se – it’s somehow not allowed or beyond the pale? What constitutes “reasonable” and “allowable” criticism/heckling of Pavin? Or is he above criticism in some way? I’m not suggesting royalists shouting abuse is “reasonable” (it’s not really that bad abuse in this instance) but it does often seem there’s little space for genuine critiques of the likes of Pavin. What about his attempts to create a “celebrity” cult around himself, something which does seem to ape that which surrounds Thai royalty? What about his shifts in position from anti-Red Shirt Abhisit fanboy to doyen of the pro-democracy movement? Sure people shift positions but given Pavin’s public profile and intellectual standing surely it’s appropriate to ask him why and how? Why the need for endless Facebook selfies over political solutions? Will even this post be permitted by New Mandala or will it to be drowned out by heckling from Pavin’s own online fanclub once it’s published?
And, if we do consider such “royalist heckling” as wrong, why not focus more on those who are in far more real danger than Khun Ajarn Pavin, who are actually in Thailand and who are not protected by the sanctity of the academy?
Questions, questions.
This issue could open up far more than “let’s laugh at the demented royalists again”. I mean isn’t the whole idea that “ajarns” have some sanctified status ludicrous in the very first place?