But if agnosticism is the inevitable future, as I suggested, and for reasons I gave in an earlier post, then I’m not sure we’ll see a class of civilizations at all. Like I said, It’s difficult to see how religion can survive in the light of scientific progress, access to information, and freedom to read, write and speak what we will. How can a Civilization survive when the beliefs that sustain it fail to stand up to objective scrutiny?
Pearshaped,
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, the information I posted showed Silver Sea 2 before it was impounded with two Thai fishing trawlers beside it.
The allegations of slave islands did not come from the Indonesians, they came from the ABC’s 7.30 report and they actually were shown over these islands by the Thais with a Phuketwan journalist with them.
The reason I mentioned the MV Steve Irwin is to refute the claims by certain navies that they couldn’t chase the Thai trawlers through “the Hook” because it was too shallow in parts, so I was pointing out that all navies have inflatable boats on board for such operations in shallow waters. And it still doesn’t explain why the Thai are there at all.
We are not just talking about exploited labour here, we’re talking about murder, kidnapping and slavery across international boundaries with everyone trying to ignore the problem.
At one stage the Australian Navy would patrol such areas, but I can never recall them ever having a Thai or Burmese or Rohingya speaker on board so how would they know if the trawlers carried slaves or not.
At least you didn’t accuse the retired Thai Police general in charge of the investigation of anything.
Yep. The ‘louder is right’ minority strikes again. Still not satisfied with riding the backs of a silent majority.. Everyone, even outside of Galaah-Land, must bend the knee.
Rose, I wish to thank you for keeping us informed regarding the Thai monarchy. Because of the evil nature of lese majeste law, it is even more urgent and necessary to hear an opposing viewpoint on the subject matter from Rose or anyone else.
Bernie,
A standard response from the good and great within the Thai elite establishment.
Next we will probably see allegations of yet another conspiracy against the illegal military junta.
The threat of a defamation suit is surely just the initial reaction and amounts to no more than the usual denial. My guess is that Praween has far too much information and knows just where the bodies are buried – metaphorically as well as literally – and who did the burying. The Thai way will be to try to sweep everything under the carpet (If that isn’t mixing my metaphors!) and to pretend it didn’t happen. If there actually is any evidence to implicate senior people you can be pretty sure that a policy of omerta will be strictly enforced. If that means making one or two sacrificial lambs out a few middle-ranking officers, so be it.
I believe I was quoting Kessler and not Huntington, and it’s the emphasis and the message from the latter’s chosen title not the content. No, we’re not worthy, and true, I don’t read every fashionable ‘must read’ book.
“That fake love should engender so much real hatred.”
Exactly. See the lead-up to the most recent coup. Yellow shirts proclaiming their love for the royal institution while sabotaging elections. The royalists ultimately will destroy the monarchy.
Has anyone who criticizes “The Clash of Civilizations” actually read the book? Moe Aung, commenting above, obviously has not given his comments about the Catholic-Protestant conflict in Ireland – as if Huntington never thought of that.
Humbug’s comment shows a similar ignorance of the content of the book.
The quote attributed to Said (may I call him a postmodernist neo-lib?) is vacuous, and his using “The War of Worlds” is the gimmick not the title “Clash of Civilizations”. There is no critical analysis in the quote only an empty sound bite: “reinforcing defensive self-pride” which speaks to nothing but a stereotype – the fading power of white (republican) males – and thus implies because we know what they are like, we know what the content of the book is like, and so we liberal (unbigoted?) minded people can dismiss it all without a read. Clever, but pointless in actual fact.
Huntington makes predictions, look at what he wrote about Ukraine, and the war he chooses to hypothesize is between China and the USA, not between the West and Islam.
Add to the Heroin/Opium business, Thailand’s gigantic commercial sex industry which over the years has created a whole class of Thai millionaires and even billionaires as well as paying billions in rent and patronage to CPB and Royal Family members…..Capital Formation “Thai-Style”…
Nationalistic hecklers have been around for a long time in Thailand.
At the 2007 Mon conference at Chulalongkorn University, following both my presentation and the presentation of the Thai Chula PhD in history student who followed me, men stood up in the audience and delivered meaningless nationalistic tirades under the pretext of asking a question.
I was told this kind of heckling happens all the time and was told to just ignore it.
Perhaps, a formal cross-cultural study of nationalistic heckling is in order 🙂
Rubbish. The ‘amnesia’ is because the new ruling elite have dirty hands, don’t want the real history written, and are more than happy to generously pay ex activists to mainstream wartime propaganda as history, which is what Chega is. With commissioners including a former SGI agent who interpreted for Kopassus on one of the TNI AL vessels involved in Op Satan Netik to repulse the Lusitanio Expresso, and another covering up the Church’s involvement in the massacre by Falintil of 9 innocent civilians in Ermera in 1999, what else could be expected.
Counting graves and conflating them with war dead and crimes isn’t scholarship – it’s just laziness and an insult to the families. Every single person who passed away has a name, was loved, is remembered. The genealogies reach farther back than even the 1912 war. Nor was it ever difficult to find the names. The ruling elite would prefer the names never to be published, and real research to never be conducted.
As a small example : Zumalai 75/6 52 members of Apodeti and UDT were murdered by Fretilin on the orders of J.Camara. They included the Liurai of Raimea Alarico Magno Fereira [Apodeti], Liurai Mape Bernardo Magno [UDT], Liurai Beco Jose Magno [Apodeti], Adjutant Liurai Mape Berelaka, Mape Adat leader Maukau, 5 shepherds working for Arnaldo Araujo [Father of Rui Maria] Siga Mali, Asa Mali, Beremau, Celestino Tilman. 5/August/75 and over 5-8 Sept 75.
Unlike Chega, I won’t conflate one village with others to produce voila an inflated total.
Re the 1912 rebellion of don Boaventura, this is a convenient point to begin the deconstruction of the myths. There’s a direct continuity between the communities that supported either Don Boaventura or Don Aleixo Cortereal in Ainaro, those who supported Lisbon or Japan in ’42, and those who supported UDT or Fretilin and Apodeti in 75/6. The communities that supported Boaventura supported Japan, then either Fretilin or Apodeti. Those who supported Don Aleixo, in general, went with Lisbon in 42 then UDT.
How is it relevant today? eg Sals’ base, Estadu in Ermera, supported Japan and was punished by some prominent pro Lisbon, then UDT, families after WW2. The Liurai lost his status. In 2006 he plotted to get it back.
Future generations of E.Timorese need the truth, all of it, not some confected lollywater to suit the political masters of the day.
No an iota of difference between the automotons in Thailand and those outside. Fascism with a smile. Wonderful.
That fake love should engender so much real hatred.
A good example of why I remain extremely pessimistic
about the chances of Thailand not breaking up in civil war. In the week Prayut’s military FINALLY got real about Isaarn secession – eg. the “Khon Khaen Model’ raids – we have this uncivil display, in one of the world’s most civil universities.
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Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
It would be unfair of me not to post this as Andy Hal’s name is mentioned. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/791949/tu-brings-all-shrimp-processing-in-house
What is “Islamism”?
But if agnosticism is the inevitable future, as I suggested, and for reasons I gave in an earlier post, then I’m not sure we’ll see a class of civilizations at all. Like I said, It’s difficult to see how religion can survive in the light of scientific progress, access to information, and freedom to read, write and speak what we will. How can a Civilization survive when the beliefs that sustain it fail to stand up to objective scrutiny?
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Pearshaped,
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, the information I posted showed Silver Sea 2 before it was impounded with two Thai fishing trawlers beside it.
The allegations of slave islands did not come from the Indonesians, they came from the ABC’s 7.30 report and they actually were shown over these islands by the Thais with a Phuketwan journalist with them.
The reason I mentioned the MV Steve Irwin is to refute the claims by certain navies that they couldn’t chase the Thai trawlers through “the Hook” because it was too shallow in parts, so I was pointing out that all navies have inflatable boats on board for such operations in shallow waters. And it still doesn’t explain why the Thai are there at all.
We are not just talking about exploited labour here, we’re talking about murder, kidnapping and slavery across international boundaries with everyone trying to ignore the problem.
At one stage the Australian Navy would patrol such areas, but I can never recall them ever having a Thai or Burmese or Rohingya speaker on board so how would they know if the trawlers carried slaves or not.
At least you didn’t accuse the retired Thai Police general in charge of the investigation of anything.
Public lectures and protecting the King
Yep. The ‘louder is right’ minority strikes again. Still not satisfied with riding the backs of a silent majority.. Everyone, even outside of Galaah-Land, must bend the knee.
The last king of Thailand?
Rose, I wish to thank you for keeping us informed regarding the Thai monarchy. Because of the evil nature of lese majeste law, it is even more urgent and necessary to hear an opposing viewpoint on the subject matter from Rose or anyone else.
Public lectures and protecting the King
The monarchy in its death throes has spewed up a million little tyrants.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Bernie,
A standard response from the good and great within the Thai elite establishment.
Next we will probably see allegations of yet another conspiracy against the illegal military junta.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
The threat of a defamation suit is surely just the initial reaction and amounts to no more than the usual denial. My guess is that Praween has far too much information and knows just where the bodies are buried – metaphorically as well as literally – and who did the burying. The Thai way will be to try to sweep everything under the carpet (If that isn’t mixing my metaphors!) and to pretend it didn’t happen. If there actually is any evidence to implicate senior people you can be pretty sure that a policy of omerta will be strictly enforced. If that means making one or two sacrificial lambs out a few middle-ranking officers, so be it.
What is “Islamism”?
I believe I was quoting Kessler and not Huntington, and it’s the emphasis and the message from the latter’s chosen title not the content. No, we’re not worthy, and true, I don’t read every fashionable ‘must read’ book.
Public lectures and protecting the King
“That fake love should engender so much real hatred.”
Exactly. See the lead-up to the most recent coup. Yellow shirts proclaiming their love for the royal institution while sabotaging elections. The royalists ultimately will destroy the monarchy.
What is “Islamism”?
Has anyone who criticizes “The Clash of Civilizations” actually read the book? Moe Aung, commenting above, obviously has not given his comments about the Catholic-Protestant conflict in Ireland – as if Huntington never thought of that.
Humbug’s comment shows a similar ignorance of the content of the book.
The quote attributed to Said (may I call him a postmodernist neo-lib?) is vacuous, and his using “The War of Worlds” is the gimmick not the title “Clash of Civilizations”. There is no critical analysis in the quote only an empty sound bite: “reinforcing defensive self-pride” which speaks to nothing but a stereotype – the fading power of white (republican) males – and thus implies because we know what they are like, we know what the content of the book is like, and so we liberal (unbigoted?) minded people can dismiss it all without a read. Clever, but pointless in actual fact.
Huntington makes predictions, look at what he wrote about Ukraine, and the war he chooses to hypothesize is between China and the USA, not between the West and Islam.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
And this article in the Bangkok Post suggests that the Thais are going to go the vindictive route: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/791869/police-mull-defamation-suit-against-asylum-seeking-officer
The last king of Thailand?
Add to the Heroin/Opium business, Thailand’s gigantic commercial sex industry which over the years has created a whole class of Thai millionaires and even billionaires as well as paying billions in rent and patronage to CPB and Royal Family members…..Capital Formation “Thai-Style”…
Public lectures and protecting the King
I think those two Thai were bought by someone.
Public lectures and protecting the King
Nationalistic hecklers have been around for a long time in Thailand.
At the 2007 Mon conference at Chulalongkorn University, following both my presentation and the presentation of the Thai Chula PhD in history student who followed me, men stood up in the audience and delivered meaningless nationalistic tirades under the pretext of asking a question.
I was told this kind of heckling happens all the time and was told to just ignore it.
Perhaps, a formal cross-cultural study of nationalistic heckling is in order 🙂
Public lectures and protecting the King
Thank you for this rather enlightening transcript, again a reminder that all attempts of rational discussion is a problematic venture.
What is “Islamism”?
Debating with someone, stuck with a 15th century mindset? Nothing good will come of it – please check the Muslim calendar to see the year. 1400s
Spectre of the past
Rubbish. The ‘amnesia’ is because the new ruling elite have dirty hands, don’t want the real history written, and are more than happy to generously pay ex activists to mainstream wartime propaganda as history, which is what Chega is. With commissioners including a former SGI agent who interpreted for Kopassus on one of the TNI AL vessels involved in Op Satan Netik to repulse the Lusitanio Expresso, and another covering up the Church’s involvement in the massacre by Falintil of 9 innocent civilians in Ermera in 1999, what else could be expected.
Counting graves and conflating them with war dead and crimes isn’t scholarship – it’s just laziness and an insult to the families. Every single person who passed away has a name, was loved, is remembered. The genealogies reach farther back than even the 1912 war. Nor was it ever difficult to find the names. The ruling elite would prefer the names never to be published, and real research to never be conducted.
As a small example : Zumalai 75/6 52 members of Apodeti and UDT were murdered by Fretilin on the orders of J.Camara. They included the Liurai of Raimea Alarico Magno Fereira [Apodeti], Liurai Mape Bernardo Magno [UDT], Liurai Beco Jose Magno [Apodeti], Adjutant Liurai Mape Berelaka, Mape Adat leader Maukau, 5 shepherds working for Arnaldo Araujo [Father of Rui Maria] Siga Mali, Asa Mali, Beremau, Celestino Tilman. 5/August/75 and over 5-8 Sept 75.
Unlike Chega, I won’t conflate one village with others to produce voila an inflated total.
Re the 1912 rebellion of don Boaventura, this is a convenient point to begin the deconstruction of the myths. There’s a direct continuity between the communities that supported either Don Boaventura or Don Aleixo Cortereal in Ainaro, those who supported Lisbon or Japan in ’42, and those who supported UDT or Fretilin and Apodeti in 75/6. The communities that supported Boaventura supported Japan, then either Fretilin or Apodeti. Those who supported Don Aleixo, in general, went with Lisbon in 42 then UDT.
How is it relevant today? eg Sals’ base, Estadu in Ermera, supported Japan and was punished by some prominent pro Lisbon, then UDT, families after WW2. The Liurai lost his status. In 2006 he plotted to get it back.
Future generations of E.Timorese need the truth, all of it, not some confected lollywater to suit the political masters of the day.
Public lectures and protecting the King
No an iota of difference between the automotons in Thailand and those outside. Fascism with a smile. Wonderful.
That fake love should engender so much real hatred.
Public lectures and protecting the King
A good example of why I remain extremely pessimistic
about the chances of Thailand not breaking up in civil war. In the week Prayut’s military FINALLY got real about Isaarn secession – eg. the “Khon Khaen Model’ raids – we have this uncivil display, in one of the world’s most civil universities.