“All religions will eventually enjoy the same status as fairy-tales since religions cannot stand up against three fundamental, and irresistible, forces that conspire to undermine their credibility:”
Pretty arrogant statement bordering on insolent bravado.
Mariner
Cringe at the thought of ” Not knowing what you don’t know”.
What has Einstein said about ‘knowledge is light to darkness’?
As for RELIGIONS, true one ALWAYS better humanity immediately or otherwise.
First, my argument might have ended in summary: “From its inception, in Muhammad’s formative experience of the Divine Unity, Islam has vehemently opposed idolatry in all its forms. Yet Islamism has transformed Islam from a faith into a cause. The Islamists have made of Islam an idol.” That, in short, is what the historical evolution from first- to third-phase Islam now means. That is the bleak world that it has delivered to and imposed upon us all.
Second, we now need to avoid a clash of civilisations, not because the idea is unpalatable or “incorrect” or unthinkable but because, knowingly or not, we are all heirs to one that has been going on since the Crusades
How did the Thai monarchy beome the richest in the world, when Thailand had no oil, and little else to export but rice. Simple answer : heroin. It is certainly true that Bumiphol himself fully supported efforts to wean hill tribes off their traditional opium cash crop, but these efforts were not really effective until AFTER the Vietnam War, as Dr. Alfred McCoy long ago exposed in his classic book The Politics Of Heroin In South East Asia. The Crown itself tried to stop the heroin trade, but its’ banks, etc., were undoubtedly used as money laundering vehicles by those less pure and principalled than the Royals. Eventually massive Japanese, and other foreign investment, in the 1980’s, plus tourism and property booms, gave Thailand other huge pillars of wealth.
Assuming you are talking about the Abrahamic faiths. Buddhist teaching that invites questioning, investigation and self realisation however is not a blind faith.
Sadly even its basic tenet that preaches loving kindness to all sentient beings, not just humans, has been ignored and violated by some of its followers in pursuit of racial hatred and religious bigotry.
No religion is immune to being hijacked by demagogues like Ian Paisley or Wirathu.
Corroboration by Aung Moe of my point that Israel has been a steadfast and stauch supporter of the military dictatorship in Burma, Peter. Some Burma expert you are, getting two different people mixed up.
The Clivester continues his project to label ‘The Other’ and invest it with badness, purloining an obscure cybernut meme ‘Third Phase.’ Oh dear, hanging out at the last chance tinfoil hat cafe.
A Catholic, I may write of Catholicism and invest it with layers of meaning, but mostly not. When Ian Paisley spoke of Catholicism he brought an entirely different set of meanings. He knew what he was doing and expected, demanded, consequences. We called this sectarianism. And this piece is sectarianism tarted up as scholarship. Sent copies to Pam and Geert yet Clive?
‘And if you do not understand it, you simply cannot. You may think you do, but you don’t and can’t.’
Why, how very Sufi of you Clive. Of course, only Gnostics can KNOW what the rest of us can’t. Just WOW.
Dilemma. How to file pieces like this, as Fiction or Non Fiction. Here’s my suggestion – go direct to the source. Read the REAL Clive Cussler who has a new book out, a thinly veiled allegory as El Sisi fights the evil Black Mist for control of the sunken treasure of the Pharaohs.
Rose: Let me thank you for all the soldiers of the RTA who have slaughtered Thai citizens, torn up constitutions, stolen billions and forced a whole society into a form of militaristic discipline for decades!
I am sure that when they hear that such a personage as yourself has determined that, as mere puppets, they are not responsible for what to some of us looks like outright criminality they will want to honor you in some way.
Perhaps they will want to replace your tinfoil hat with one done in gold and jewels?
Or maybe they already have?
It would certainly explain the blanket amnesty you are suggesting here and elsewhere.
Chatwadee – Sadly your words of reason and responsibility will fall on deaf ears. Money ALWAYS wins and money/power is NEVER voluntarily rescinded.
The Thai King is one of the world wealthiest men and the wealthy monarchy – may soon be ruled by what one can only describe as a despot. – The crown Prince.
Thank you for your article and I hope one day you can return home to a free democratic republic called Thailand.
@Mariner, I’m afraid these questions would simplify too much our image of Islam. Obviously the point of view of the “absolute”, of a revealed truth, is at odds with the possibility of a dialog among cultures. Probably – but I’m not sure – a Muslim would reply that yes, he would be happy if Sharia could be applied in Belgium. But Muslim culture’s identity doesn’t depend only on a doctrine or a set of absolute rules. For what I can understand of Islam, the same idea of following the Muhammad’s example it’s mainly a work of interpretation and adaptation to the reality and to the historical context. This is what happened in Belgium where most of Muslims are well integrated, at any level, and not simply “tolerated” and ghettoized like in Molenbeek (the district that looks like a piece of middle east dropped in Europe and that became sadly famous after the terrorist attack in Paris). This happened thanks to the dominant culture in Belgium which has, for what I’ve experienced, a very open attitude toward other cultures, but also thanks to those non-doctrinal elements of the Muslim culture that makes it possible an extension and an integration with other cultures. Off course integration – following the lesson of Todorov – is not a simple process, it requires a balance of “tolerance” and “intolerance”, the willing to put temporary “in bracket” our identity and, possibly, also to overcome it. It could be also a conflictual process. But this worked perfectly in large part of the Belgian society. It’s a possibility that belongs to both cultures.
If we think that the Muslim identity depends on the answer to the question if they would be happy to apply Sharia in Europe, if we prophesize a necessary shifting of Islam toward a political militancy, we risk not only to create an image of a culture that will never integrate in the “west” but even to deny the possibility of a coexistence.
“When asked by the host to improve Vietnam’s 83% UN records against Israel, Dep PM Hoang Trung Hai replied “self-determination is important”.
Hoang was referring to “PALESTINIAN” Self-Determination and your 83 % voting record against Israel, proves MY point that relations are not (at the political level) what you claim. Mary, you are totally incoherent. By the way, it’s a 100 % against Israel. Vietnam has never sided with Israel in the UN, not even on anti-China South China Sea unanimity in ASEAN. Myanmar and the Philippines, arguably the most free to side with Israel, also at best, abstain and don’t even vote with Israel, which only includes the English-speaking West and Micronesia and Fiji, and sometimes Mainland Europe. I track EVERY vote in the UN.
Manh, Malaysia trades with Israel; Indonesia trades with Israel. Saudi Arabian reps met with Israelis for the first time; it doesn’t mean the Messiah will be here next week. The reason why Fiji and Micronesia are not afraid to always vote with Israel is due to the millions in aid Israel has given these islands debt free, islands everyone else ignores, and there is a very strong Old Testament Christianity among Polynesians and Micronesians, thus the famous Hawaiian singer who passed away almost 20 years ago, Israel Ka╩╗ano╩╗i Kamakawiwo╩╗ole. Israel (the singer and nation) is very popular among Melanesians and Polynesians where anti-Semitism is non-existent. Vietnam, like China and like ASEAN, is practical, it wants trade but no ideological commitments.
Oh Lord, Moe and I on the same side. Maybe I am not chewing enough Betel ! He’s 100 % correct and now I have to go rinse with mouthwash (because of the Betel breath).
Further to the above why are two refrigerated ships the Silver Sea 2 and the Silver Sea Line, which both dock at Samat Sakhon and supply Songla Canning Public Company a subsiduary of Thai Union Frozen Products allowed to continue to dock and unload their illegal “catch” in Thailand.
Both ships have been caught illegally being motherships to Thai trawlers operating in other countries teritorialn waters, both have been detained with their slave labour on board and their catch confiscated along with their slave labour, who have been repatriated to both Cambodia and Burma. However the Thai trawlers that supply them have eluded capture and have replenished their “stock” of illegal slave labour held on islands off Indonesia.
So far nothing has happened to either the ships, which change their names regularly , or an all out effort to close down the factories involved in the billion dollar export industry.
The General appointed to conduct the investigation has said quite openly that he must resign because he has been posted to the same provinces that the factories operate in and he will be assasinated as soon as he puts foot in those provinces.
Perhaps the investigation should have started at the factories. And why haven’t the shups’ owners been arrested and charged along with the directors of the companies.
Burma Army wouldn’t be able to fight the long civil war last 60 years without IDF help since U Nu days. Peter Cohen is right.
General Ne Win’s right hand man Colonel Maung Maung had basically developed logistic and training of modern Burma army with the help of IDF in 1960s and 70s.
Israel came in and helped Burma again when arms sanction from USA and Europe suddenly cut well-established supply of H&K G3 assault rifles (standard assault rifle of Burma army since 1961) in mid 1990s.
IDF then secretly and illegally transferred to the Burma army the technology and manufacturing facilities for its Galil assault rifle which is now the standard MA assault rifles of Burma army.
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What is “Islamism”?
“All religions will eventually enjoy the same status as fairy-tales since religions cannot stand up against three fundamental, and irresistible, forces that conspire to undermine their credibility:”
Pretty arrogant statement bordering on insolent bravado.
Mariner
Cringe at the thought of ” Not knowing what you don’t know”.
What has Einstein said about ‘knowledge is light to darkness’?
As for RELIGIONS, true one ALWAYS better humanity immediately or otherwise.
What is “Islamism”?
ISLAMISM AGAIN .. .. MY “ISLAMISM” CLARIFIED.
Further to my “What is ‘Islamism’?” two points.
First, my argument might have ended in summary: “From its inception, in Muhammad’s formative experience of the Divine Unity, Islam has vehemently opposed idolatry in all its forms. Yet Islamism has transformed Islam from a faith into a cause. The Islamists have made of Islam an idol.” That, in short, is what the historical evolution from first- to third-phase Islam now means. That is the bleak world that it has delivered to and imposed upon us all.
Second, we now need to avoid a clash of civilisations, not because the idea is unpalatable or “incorrect” or unthinkable but because, knowingly or not, we are all heirs to one that has been going on since the Crusades
The last king of Thailand?
How did the Thai monarchy beome the richest in the world, when Thailand had no oil, and little else to export but rice. Simple answer : heroin. It is certainly true that Bumiphol himself fully supported efforts to wean hill tribes off their traditional opium cash crop, but these efforts were not really effective until AFTER the Vietnam War, as Dr. Alfred McCoy long ago exposed in his classic book The Politics Of Heroin In South East Asia. The Crown itself tried to stop the heroin trade, but its’ banks, etc., were undoubtedly used as money laundering vehicles by those less pure and principalled than the Royals. Eventually massive Japanese, and other foreign investment, in the 1980’s, plus tourism and property booms, gave Thailand other huge pillars of wealth.
Keeping afloat after the ‘red wave’
[…] : ├Йdith Disdet Source : Richard Nolan / The New Mandala Keeping afloat after the ‘red wave’ Photo : chrisjohnbeckett / Foter.com […]
Still better than Thaksin?
Oh my Goodness! How on earth did you know that I wrote that post while in the local Pizza Hut ???(Super Supreme, if memory serves).
Wait! Wait a minute. You weren’t that guy on the table opposite wearing the “I am more moral than thou” T-shirt were you?
What is “Islamism”?
Assuming you are talking about the Abrahamic faiths. Buddhist teaching that invites questioning, investigation and self realisation however is not a blind faith.
Sadly even its basic tenet that preaches loving kindness to all sentient beings, not just humans, has been ignored and violated by some of its followers in pursuit of racial hatred and religious bigotry.
No religion is immune to being hijacked by demagogues like Ian Paisley or Wirathu.
Vietnam: Israel’s closest ASEAN partner
Corroboration by Aung Moe of my point that Israel has been a steadfast and stauch supporter of the military dictatorship in Burma, Peter. Some Burma expert you are, getting two different people mixed up.
What is “Islamism”?
The Clivester continues his project to label ‘The Other’ and invest it with badness, purloining an obscure cybernut meme ‘Third Phase.’ Oh dear, hanging out at the last chance tinfoil hat cafe.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-third-and-final-phase-of-islam-islam-as-the-civilization-alternative/
A Catholic, I may write of Catholicism and invest it with layers of meaning, but mostly not. When Ian Paisley spoke of Catholicism he brought an entirely different set of meanings. He knew what he was doing and expected, demanded, consequences. We called this sectarianism. And this piece is sectarianism tarted up as scholarship. Sent copies to Pam and Geert yet Clive?
‘And if you do not understand it, you simply cannot. You may think you do, but you don’t and can’t.’
Why, how very Sufi of you Clive. Of course, only Gnostics can KNOW what the rest of us can’t. Just WOW.
Dilemma. How to file pieces like this, as Fiction or Non Fiction. Here’s my suggestion – go direct to the source. Read the REAL Clive Cussler who has a new book out, a thinly veiled allegory as El Sisi fights the evil Black Mist for control of the sunken treasure of the Pharaohs.
http://clive-cussler-books.com/
The last king of Thailand?
Rose: Let me thank you for all the soldiers of the RTA who have slaughtered Thai citizens, torn up constitutions, stolen billions and forced a whole society into a form of militaristic discipline for decades!
I am sure that when they hear that such a personage as yourself has determined that, as mere puppets, they are not responsible for what to some of us looks like outright criminality they will want to honor you in some way.
Perhaps they will want to replace your tinfoil hat with one done in gold and jewels?
Or maybe they already have?
It would certainly explain the blanket amnesty you are suggesting here and elsewhere.
The last king of Thailand?
Chatwadee – Sadly your words of reason and responsibility will fall on deaf ears. Money ALWAYS wins and money/power is NEVER voluntarily rescinded.
The Thai King is one of the world wealthiest men and the wealthy monarchy – may soon be ruled by what one can only describe as a despot. – The crown Prince.
Thank you for your article and I hope one day you can return home to a free democratic republic called Thailand.
What is “Islamism”?
@Mariner, I’m afraid these questions would simplify too much our image of Islam. Obviously the point of view of the “absolute”, of a revealed truth, is at odds with the possibility of a dialog among cultures. Probably – but I’m not sure – a Muslim would reply that yes, he would be happy if Sharia could be applied in Belgium. But Muslim culture’s identity doesn’t depend only on a doctrine or a set of absolute rules. For what I can understand of Islam, the same idea of following the Muhammad’s example it’s mainly a work of interpretation and adaptation to the reality and to the historical context. This is what happened in Belgium where most of Muslims are well integrated, at any level, and not simply “tolerated” and ghettoized like in Molenbeek (the district that looks like a piece of middle east dropped in Europe and that became sadly famous after the terrorist attack in Paris). This happened thanks to the dominant culture in Belgium which has, for what I’ve experienced, a very open attitude toward other cultures, but also thanks to those non-doctrinal elements of the Muslim culture that makes it possible an extension and an integration with other cultures. Off course integration – following the lesson of Todorov – is not a simple process, it requires a balance of “tolerance” and “intolerance”, the willing to put temporary “in bracket” our identity and, possibly, also to overcome it. It could be also a conflictual process. But this worked perfectly in large part of the Belgian society. It’s a possibility that belongs to both cultures.
If we think that the Muslim identity depends on the answer to the question if they would be happy to apply Sharia in Europe, if we prophesize a necessary shifting of Islam toward a political militancy, we risk not only to create an image of a culture that will never integrate in the “west” but even to deny the possibility of a coexistence.
ASEAN’s community moving in circles
Please kindly relate a time when ASEAN wasn’t moving in circles ?
Vietnam: Israel’s closest ASEAN partner
“When asked by the host to improve Vietnam’s 83% UN records against Israel, Dep PM Hoang Trung Hai replied “self-determination is important”.
Hoang was referring to “PALESTINIAN” Self-Determination and your 83 % voting record against Israel, proves MY point that relations are not (at the political level) what you claim. Mary, you are totally incoherent. By the way, it’s a 100 % against Israel. Vietnam has never sided with Israel in the UN, not even on anti-China South China Sea unanimity in ASEAN. Myanmar and the Philippines, arguably the most free to side with Israel, also at best, abstain and don’t even vote with Israel, which only includes the English-speaking West and Micronesia and Fiji, and sometimes Mainland Europe. I track EVERY vote in the UN.
Manh, Malaysia trades with Israel; Indonesia trades with Israel. Saudi Arabian reps met with Israelis for the first time; it doesn’t mean the Messiah will be here next week. The reason why Fiji and Micronesia are not afraid to always vote with Israel is due to the millions in aid Israel has given these islands debt free, islands everyone else ignores, and there is a very strong Old Testament Christianity among Polynesians and Micronesians, thus the famous Hawaiian singer who passed away almost 20 years ago, Israel Ka╩╗ano╩╗i Kamakawiwo╩╗ole. Israel (the singer and nation) is very popular among Melanesians and Polynesians where anti-Semitism is non-existent. Vietnam, like China and like ASEAN, is practical, it wants trade but no ideological commitments.
Vietnam: Israel’s closest ASEAN partner
Oh Lord, Moe and I on the same side. Maybe I am not chewing enough Betel ! He’s 100 % correct and now I have to go rinse with mouthwash (because of the Betel breath).
Vietnam: Israel’s closest ASEAN partner
When asked by the host to improve Vietnam’s 83% UN records against Israel, Dep PM Hoang Trung Hai replied “self-determination is important”.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Further to the above why are two refrigerated ships the Silver Sea 2 and the Silver Sea Line, which both dock at Samat Sakhon and supply Songla Canning Public Company a subsiduary of Thai Union Frozen Products allowed to continue to dock and unload their illegal “catch” in Thailand.
Both ships have been caught illegally being motherships to Thai trawlers operating in other countries teritorialn waters, both have been detained with their slave labour on board and their catch confiscated along with their slave labour, who have been repatriated to both Cambodia and Burma. However the Thai trawlers that supply them have eluded capture and have replenished their “stock” of illegal slave labour held on islands off Indonesia.
So far nothing has happened to either the ships, which change their names regularly , or an all out effort to close down the factories involved in the billion dollar export industry.
The General appointed to conduct the investigation has said quite openly that he must resign because he has been posted to the same provinces that the factories operate in and he will be assasinated as soon as he puts foot in those provinces.
Perhaps the investigation should have started at the factories. And why haven’t the shups’ owners been arrested and charged along with the directors of the companies.
A rage against history
[…] Read an earlier essay on the history and relationship of Islam, violence and Southeast Asia by Clive Kessler, “A rage against history”, here. […]
What is “Islamism”?
[…] http://www.newmandala.org/2015/12/01/what-is-islamism/ […]
Can democratic Myanmar lead ASEAN?
Do keep us posted.
Vietnam: Israel’s closest ASEAN partner
Burma Army wouldn’t be able to fight the long civil war last 60 years without IDF help since U Nu days. Peter Cohen is right.
General Ne Win’s right hand man Colonel Maung Maung had basically developed logistic and training of modern Burma army with the help of IDF in 1960s and 70s.
Israel came in and helped Burma again when arms sanction from USA and Europe suddenly cut well-established supply of H&K G3 assault rifles (standard assault rifle of Burma army since 1961) in mid 1990s.
IDF then secretly and illegally transferred to the Burma army the technology and manufacturing facilities for its Galil assault rifle which is now the standard MA assault rifles of Burma army.