Renaud Egreteau suggests in The Diplomat that the challenge to the NLD govt will now come from above – the CIC and his men in the chambers, and from below – the USDP rump in parliament, the troops and also the civil society groups, since political proxies have outlived their use.
“The upsurge of support for the NLD among the indigenous peoples is interesting, considering ethnic politics is concentrated largely in extra-parliamentary politics, that being the armed struggle” said Khun Nawng, a London-based Kachin observer.
He says that many ethnic voters whose lives have been dominated by war see the “election as not a game changer, which suggests their disillusionment and unwillingness to strategically engage in electoral politics under Burma’s flawed constitution. They chose the NLD as the lesser of two evils.”
It looks like there are no other photos of Jokowi with other leaders/official visitors as he doesn’t seem to have done it with other leaders or, on the basis of hunting around the Web, many other official visitors.
For one thing, it is mostly males deciding that women should be circumcised. In Jewish tradition, the mother handles the process; in Islam, the father arranges the ceremony.
There is still evidence that male circumcision improves hygiene, and it is interesting that most doctors who claim it doesn’t are from California, the same State where Governor Jerry Brown wants to ban male circumcision; hardly a coincidence. There is no pain when a Jewish infant is circumcised; there is egregious pain when a Muslim girl (young child, not infant which lacks a fully-developed central nervous system) is subjected to mutilation. There are non Jews and non Muslims (males) that also choose circumcision. Some tribes in Africa that are animist or Christian also perform the procedures on males and females. A secular or Leftist Jew who opposes circumcision for male Jews is not stoned, raped, tortured or shot, merely nagged to death by their mother. A Muslim girl who has the courage to object (take Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for example) to female mutilation at best, is forced to undergo the procedure, and in Kandahar, Afghanistan, will be killed immediately. Indonesia and Malaysia may be more lax than Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Egypt, that doesn’t mean there is no pressure, and in Aceh, there is a lot of pressure. Chris, your attempt to analogize male circumcision among Jews and moderate Muslims with FGM, is non-factual and relies on different criteria and historical bases.
Dismayed to see New Mandala publishing a pointless clickbait story like this, whose only purpose seems to be to boost flagging readership and provoke a mindless flame war in the comments section, in which anonymous sock puppets vent their bile. I really don’t want to play that game, so after clarifying the issue in this comment, I won’t make any further contributions to this discussion.
Serhat ├Ьnaldi made plenty of valid points in his review, but he also accused me of plagiarising his work, and this is obviously a very serious allegation.
Among various other accusations, he claims that in my book I stole significant parts of his article Working Towards the Monarchy and its Discontents: Anti-royal Graffiti in Downtown Bangkok, which was published in 2013 . He says:m”Marshall … even borrows the opening scene of my article on royal graffiti to launch his first chapter”.
This is completely wrong – a first draft of the opening of the first chapter of A Kingdom in Crisis was published way back in 2011 as part of #thaistory, and can be viewed at this link.
He also claims that I stole the phrase “Bhumibolists” from an article he wrote in 2012 which used the description “Bhumibolistas”, apparently unaware that “Bhumibolists” has been a widely used phrase for years – here is one example from New Mandala from 2010.
├Ьnaldi’s review notes that I am just a “journalist … but not a scholar”, which I guess makes me a lesser mortal, but all I can say that if a journalist were to write an article accusing somebody of plagiarism, they would be very sure their facts were right, and they would seek specific comment from the person they were accusing. Had ├Ьnaldi bothered to do that, I could have easily shown him that his accusations were wrong.
A journalist would also correct an article if it was shown they had made a mistake.
We all know how damaging it is for an academic or a journalist to be accused of plagiarism. It can be highly destructive to somebody’s career. In personal correspondence with me, ├Ьnaldi has already admitted that he was wrong. So the reason I approached him on Twitter was to ask him to make a public acknowledgement of the fact that he made a mistake, and to issue some kind of correction or retraction. I don’t think this is too much to ask, but it seems he is unwilling to admit publicly to mistakes he has already admitted to me privately. That’s very disappointing, and I hope he changes his mind and does the decent thing. But whether he does or not, I am sure most New Mandala readers have much more important things to worry about than this issue.
Should have erred on side of over-citing since ideas can have multiple sources and why be miserly and ungenerous with citations in this age of unlimited virtual paper? Readers benefit from more possible sources.
Very common in Southeast Asian Studies: 1. citing only members of one’s academic clique & 2. making no efforts to make research work available in Thailand or whatever place is the subject of research so it can be of help to the people there.
Scholar Hewison, mentioned above, has put all his papers online and shared his knowledge with the world. Truly a hero 🙂
The banning of Marshall’s book seems to have made it available to everyone instantaneously for free over the internet and the author’s appetite for rumour and controversy certainly seems to have made him popular, but the last chapter, a rather outlandish apocalypse Thailand scenario, is certainly in need a thorough rebuttal and challenging. Alas, censorship probably add fuel to the sensational. 🙁
Seems to me you can make a fairly strong case that female circumcision as most typically practiced in Indonesia involves less mutilation than male circumcision. Why is one a violation of human rights while the other isn’t?
In Thailand as much as anywhere else, people invest in their children’s education in the hope that they will become rich. But as one generation follows another, they also become more civilised. Thailand is being held back unnaturally but temporarily by a gerontocracy who cling to a more barbarous past. Relief will come soon when they are all dead. I’m greatly relieved, Emjay, that this historical trend is incompatible with your misanthropic outlook.
Interesting to see how many folks here pile on to agree with the premise of Riggs’ discussion of Thai constitutionalism when in fact there are also endless discussions of how the latest incarnation will have serious consequences if it isn’t… blah blah blah.
Thais have never had anything remotely resembling a functioning democracy and there is presently no movement (pace Nick Nostitz and his friends’ “internal discourse” in the good old UDD) towards creating such.
The political parties and their street wings, like Thai constitutions, are merely decorative wrapping around a congeries of conflicting elite interest groups.
And it doesn’t seem to matter how many times or in how many ways this reality is pointed out and even agreed to on NM, the same people who in one breath agree in the next breath castigate anyone who doubts the valiant progress of Thai democracy since the millenium.
Idiocracy isn’t just a movie. And “no-mind” isn’t just a Zen cliche.
I am more optimistic for the long term. I think universal literacy leads gradually towards the rule of law and away from patronage. Also, people see that their elected representatives are more likely to give them laws that suit them than an ancient, moribund caste of cronies. Literate people soon tire of being ruled by a cabal of monarchist cronies and the semi-literate military. It’s a rocky road, but progress is inevitable.
So you reckon it was a ‘secret ballot’. No international observers were allowed on the day despite initial assurances by the CIC that they would be given access to military installations reported The Irrawaddy.
Whilst advances in science and technology in general and IT in particular do have a very important role in all this it does not and cannot replace or supersede politics.
A driving force and game changer they may well be but human agency in the form of politics and its practitioners with their business backers and lobbyists in the prevailing world order still determines the direction these take and the way they are harnessed and utilised. The Terminator scenario remains in the realms of science fiction.
Credit where credit is due, the role of Facebook and android phones did play a crucial part in the outcome of the November 8 polls. Alienation arising from mechanisation during the Industrial Revolution may now have come full circle, the hitech products for the mass market empowering the powerless for the first time in history enabling them to organise and shape their own future.
Prof Welsh’s article is an sound diagnosis and prescription for post-election political management which will lay the foundations of our country’s long and slow rehabilitation process short of a revolution.
The generals had realised albeit belatedly that ASSK held the key to their smooth exit with their ill gotten gains more or less intact (making hay in undignified haste while the sun still shines) and they mustn’t doubt that she remains their sole guarantee to keep their heads still attached to their bodies. Others won’t be so charitable or gentle.
It’s really unfortunate the headline of this is a misleading “Thailand’s rocky road to democracy”. Because it is clear the trend is AWAY from democracy, and the author says as much: “This all indicates the 20th Thai constitution will more likely err towards dictatorship rather than democracy.”
So rather than trying to sound pleasant and optimistic, the editors should put a headline on that reflects accurately the content — and the actual situation.
Even with the benefit of hindsight Australia is well advised not to put all the eggs in one basket although in the event ASSK/NLD did win a landslide which nobody could have predicted nor that anyone did, and yes, arguably most important to the international community, Aung San Suu Kyi cannot become President.
Also still relevant is the uncontrollable and unpredictable public response to the results or public perception of the outcome in actual practice after the expected drubbing of the USDP at the polls became a reality as a result of broadly speaking ‘free and fair’ elections since the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
The diverse populace of Burma have said in virtually one voice – Give the Lady a chance! Whether she will meet their high expectations or not is quite another story. How she deals with the military from a constitutionally very strong position in the legislative chambers come April, the whole setup’s fundamentally inimical nature to democracy notwithstanding, will be the test of her true mettle. The challenge may come even sooner if any attempt at overturning or overriding the people’s verdict is suspected.
“…unless you’ve never heard of the senior officers ordering the rank and file who they must vote for…”
You fail to appreciate that this was a secret ballot. The military rank and file could easily have agreed to vote for the USDP, but then secretly voted for the NLD (as Burmese generally did nationwide).
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The crisis behind ‘A Kingdom in Crisis’
“Plagiarism” or not, Andrew MacGregor Marshall, why does n’t your book duely acknowledge its’ huge debt to Handley ?
The crisis behind ‘A Kingdom in Crisis’
i have never upticked a Fernquest comment before but this is spot on.
Money politics and the prisoner’s dilemma
[…] : Fran├зois Vezier Source (Burhanuddin Muhtadi / New Mandala) Money Politics and the prisonners dilemma Photo : Fan├зois […]
The realities of power in Myanmar
Renaud Egreteau suggests in The Diplomat that the challenge to the NLD govt will now come from above – the CIC and his men in the chambers, and from below – the USDP rump in parliament, the troops and also the civil society groups, since political proxies have outlived their use.
NLD needs to lift the standard
Someone actually said it in this DVB report:
“The upsurge of support for the NLD among the indigenous peoples is interesting, considering ethnic politics is concentrated largely in extra-parliamentary politics, that being the armed struggle” said Khun Nawng, a London-based Kachin observer.
He says that many ethnic voters whose lives have been dominated by war see the “election as not a game changer, which suggests their disillusionment and unwillingness to strategically engage in electoral politics under Burma’s flawed constitution. They chose the NLD as the lesser of two evils.”
Bangkok Post wondered aloud Will Suu Kyi pose threat to a democratic Myanmar?
When Turnbull came to town
It looks like there are no other photos of Jokowi with other leaders/official visitors as he doesn’t seem to have done it with other leaders or, on the basis of hunting around the Web, many other official visitors.
Not very reliable.
The cruelest cut
For one thing, it is mostly males deciding that women should be circumcised. In Jewish tradition, the mother handles the process; in Islam, the father arranges the ceremony.
There is still evidence that male circumcision improves hygiene, and it is interesting that most doctors who claim it doesn’t are from California, the same State where Governor Jerry Brown wants to ban male circumcision; hardly a coincidence. There is no pain when a Jewish infant is circumcised; there is egregious pain when a Muslim girl (young child, not infant which lacks a fully-developed central nervous system) is subjected to mutilation. There are non Jews and non Muslims (males) that also choose circumcision. Some tribes in Africa that are animist or Christian also perform the procedures on males and females. A secular or Leftist Jew who opposes circumcision for male Jews is not stoned, raped, tortured or shot, merely nagged to death by their mother. A Muslim girl who has the courage to object (take Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for example) to female mutilation at best, is forced to undergo the procedure, and in Kandahar, Afghanistan, will be killed immediately. Indonesia and Malaysia may be more lax than Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Egypt, that doesn’t mean there is no pressure, and in Aceh, there is a lot of pressure. Chris, your attempt to analogize male circumcision among Jews and moderate Muslims with FGM, is non-factual and relies on different criteria and historical bases.
The crisis behind ‘A Kingdom in Crisis’
Dismayed to see New Mandala publishing a pointless clickbait story like this, whose only purpose seems to be to boost flagging readership and provoke a mindless flame war in the comments section, in which anonymous sock puppets vent their bile. I really don’t want to play that game, so after clarifying the issue in this comment, I won’t make any further contributions to this discussion.
Serhat ├Ьnaldi made plenty of valid points in his review, but he also accused me of plagiarising his work, and this is obviously a very serious allegation.
Among various other accusations, he claims that in my book I stole significant parts of his article Working Towards the Monarchy and its Discontents: Anti-royal Graffiti in Downtown Bangkok, which was published in 2013 . He says:m”Marshall … even borrows the opening scene of my article on royal graffiti to launch his first chapter”.
This is completely wrong – a first draft of the opening of the first chapter of A Kingdom in Crisis was published way back in 2011 as part of #thaistory, and can be viewed at this link.
He also claims that I stole the phrase “Bhumibolists” from an article he wrote in 2012 which used the description “Bhumibolistas”, apparently unaware that “Bhumibolists” has been a widely used phrase for years – here is one example from New Mandala from 2010.
├Ьnaldi’s review notes that I am just a “journalist … but not a scholar”, which I guess makes me a lesser mortal, but all I can say that if a journalist were to write an article accusing somebody of plagiarism, they would be very sure their facts were right, and they would seek specific comment from the person they were accusing. Had ├Ьnaldi bothered to do that, I could have easily shown him that his accusations were wrong.
A journalist would also correct an article if it was shown they had made a mistake.
We all know how damaging it is for an academic or a journalist to be accused of plagiarism. It can be highly destructive to somebody’s career. In personal correspondence with me, ├Ьnaldi has already admitted that he was wrong. So the reason I approached him on Twitter was to ask him to make a public acknowledgement of the fact that he made a mistake, and to issue some kind of correction or retraction. I don’t think this is too much to ask, but it seems he is unwilling to admit publicly to mistakes he has already admitted to me privately. That’s very disappointing, and I hope he changes his mind and does the decent thing. But whether he does or not, I am sure most New Mandala readers have much more important things to worry about than this issue.
The crisis behind ‘A Kingdom in Crisis’
Should have erred on side of over-citing since ideas can have multiple sources and why be miserly and ungenerous with citations in this age of unlimited virtual paper? Readers benefit from more possible sources.
Very common in Southeast Asian Studies: 1. citing only members of one’s academic clique & 2. making no efforts to make research work available in Thailand or whatever place is the subject of research so it can be of help to the people there.
Scholar Hewison, mentioned above, has put all his papers online and shared his knowledge with the world. Truly a hero 🙂
The banning of Marshall’s book seems to have made it available to everyone instantaneously for free over the internet and the author’s appetite for rumour and controversy certainly seems to have made him popular, but the last chapter, a rather outlandish apocalypse Thailand scenario, is certainly in need a thorough rebuttal and challenging. Alas, censorship probably add fuel to the sensational. 🙁
The cruelest cut
Seems to me you can make a fairly strong case that female circumcision as most typically practiced in Indonesia involves less mutilation than male circumcision. Why is one a violation of human rights while the other isn’t?
Thailand’s rocky road to democracy
In Thailand as much as anywhere else, people invest in their children’s education in the hope that they will become rich. But as one generation follows another, they also become more civilised. Thailand is being held back unnaturally but temporarily by a gerontocracy who cling to a more barbarous past. Relief will come soon when they are all dead. I’m greatly relieved, Emjay, that this historical trend is incompatible with your misanthropic outlook.
Singapore’s insatiable hunger for sand
From Phnom Penh Post: The Koh Kong and Tatai River sand dredging operations resume with zero transparency, zero accountability, zero environmental impact studies and no one giving a rat’s ass about the local fishermen and communities…. http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/dredging-resumes-tatai-koh-kong?utm_content=buffer6a38a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Thailand’s rocky road to democracy
Interesting to see how many folks here pile on to agree with the premise of Riggs’ discussion of Thai constitutionalism when in fact there are also endless discussions of how the latest incarnation will have serious consequences if it isn’t… blah blah blah.
Thais have never had anything remotely resembling a functioning democracy and there is presently no movement (pace Nick Nostitz and his friends’ “internal discourse” in the good old UDD) towards creating such.
The political parties and their street wings, like Thai constitutions, are merely decorative wrapping around a congeries of conflicting elite interest groups.
And it doesn’t seem to matter how many times or in how many ways this reality is pointed out and even agreed to on NM, the same people who in one breath agree in the next breath castigate anyone who doubts the valiant progress of Thai democracy since the millenium.
Idiocracy isn’t just a movie. And “no-mind” isn’t just a Zen cliche.
Thailand’s rocky road to democracy
I am more optimistic for the long term. I think universal literacy leads gradually towards the rule of law and away from patronage. Also, people see that their elected representatives are more likely to give them laws that suit them than an ancient, moribund caste of cronies. Literate people soon tire of being ruled by a cabal of monarchist cronies and the semi-literate military. It’s a rocky road, but progress is inevitable.
Thailand’s rocky road to democracy
Really? I’ve not met even one person.
Hope, division and the vote
So you reckon it was a ‘secret ballot’. No international observers were allowed on the day despite initial assurances by the CIC that they would be given access to military installations reported The Irrawaddy.
Ever heard of your votes being kindly taken care of on your behalf?
Taking new paths
Whilst advances in science and technology in general and IT in particular do have a very important role in all this it does not and cannot replace or supersede politics.
A driving force and game changer they may well be but human agency in the form of politics and its practitioners with their business backers and lobbyists in the prevailing world order still determines the direction these take and the way they are harnessed and utilised. The Terminator scenario remains in the realms of science fiction.
Credit where credit is due, the role of Facebook and android phones did play a crucial part in the outcome of the November 8 polls. Alienation arising from mechanisation during the Industrial Revolution may now have come full circle, the hitech products for the mass market empowering the powerless for the first time in history enabling them to organise and shape their own future.
Prof Welsh’s article is an sound diagnosis and prescription for post-election political management which will lay the foundations of our country’s long and slow rehabilitation process short of a revolution.
The generals had realised albeit belatedly that ASSK held the key to their smooth exit with their ill gotten gains more or less intact (making hay in undignified haste while the sun still shines) and they mustn’t doubt that she remains their sole guarantee to keep their heads still attached to their bodies. Others won’t be so charitable or gentle.
Thailand’s rocky road to democracy
It’s really unfortunate the headline of this is a misleading “Thailand’s rocky road to democracy”. Because it is clear the trend is AWAY from democracy, and the author says as much: “This all indicates the 20th Thai constitution will more likely err towards dictatorship rather than democracy.”
So rather than trying to sound pleasant and optimistic, the editors should put a headline on that reflects accurately the content — and the actual situation.
Aung San Suu Kyi and the vote
Even with the benefit of hindsight Australia is well advised not to put all the eggs in one basket although in the event ASSK/NLD did win a landslide which nobody could have predicted nor that anyone did, and yes, arguably most important to the international community, Aung San Suu Kyi cannot become President.
Also still relevant is the uncontrollable and unpredictable public response to the results or public perception of the outcome in actual practice after the expected drubbing of the USDP at the polls became a reality as a result of broadly speaking ‘free and fair’ elections since the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
The diverse populace of Burma have said in virtually one voice – Give the Lady a chance! Whether she will meet their high expectations or not is quite another story. How she deals with the military from a constitutionally very strong position in the legislative chambers come April, the whole setup’s fundamentally inimical nature to democracy notwithstanding, will be the test of her true mettle. The challenge may come even sooner if any attempt at overturning or overriding the people’s verdict is suspected.
Hope, division and the vote
“…unless you’ve never heard of the senior officers ordering the rank and file who they must vote for…”
You fail to appreciate that this was a secret ballot. The military rank and file could easily have agreed to vote for the USDP, but then secretly voted for the NLD (as Burmese generally did nationwide).