Given Abbott’s ‘stellar’ success with Jokowi, I think the title is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Australia should dare to dream SMALL when it comes to Indonesia. Jokowi has already sufficiently proven that he is not the President under which, either much-needed microeconomic or grand visionary sociopolitical changes, are likely to take place. While Jokowi has provided no evidence of malfeasance or personal corruption, Abbott has already tasted the bitter flavor of being manipulated (rather easily) by the venal and vain Prime Minister Najib. While Malaysian politics may be riper and more fraught with obvious ethnic complexities, PM Abbott should not bank Australia’s immediate and entire future on President Jokowi or Indonesia. PM Abbott should “Dare to dream small”.
Marayu makes it sound like the Wild West, the rail road companies and native Americans. Not that it hasn’t a grain of truth in it. But with our chiefs as accomplices selling us down the river. White men speak with forked tongue, Chinese with USD.
“one for all and all for one” is for old musketeers. The new Chines motto is: “One Belt One Road One Whip One Master Race”
The Sinicisation of the barbaric periphery is proceeding at an alarming pace. Out with Rohingyas (but illegal loggers and miners from China are welcome! ) China needs Lebensraum. More railways to foster Chinese trade and settlements (SEZ’s) including naval bases on the Bay of Bengal. Myandian is and always will be a Chinese takeaway kitchen. Long live Confucius and Jinping Xi!
It always amazes me that New Mandala carries SO LITTLE coverage of the Patani conflict. If NM is really interested in objective analysis, and the Thai military can really be SUCH a force for democracy as this article suggests, and the Thai military has been claimimg since 1932, then why not more about Patani?
New Mandala readers, especially those in Australia, will be interested to note that Nancy Lee Peluso, amongst other other leading international scholars, will be participating in another upcoming conference at the Australian National University, that will focus on the linkages between informal mining and agrarian transitions in the Global South:
“Between the Plough and the Pick: Informal Mining in the Contemporary World”
November 5-6, 2015
Crawford School of Public Policy
The Australian National University
Totally understand your sentiment and respect it. It was rather disappointing that Burmese people cannot connect the injustice done to others as just before their own turn.
Khin Nyunt’s time, to avoid Universiy Avenue they made Parami road extension to Insein Road. Couldn’t forget people sitting in their sitting rooms watching Tele where their house was cut in half like with a bread knife. Commuters on buses thought that was hilarious. Same happened of course in all the “development” areas as well including prime coastal estates the Rohingya vacated with grace.
And Latpadaung!
Unless people realise “One for all and all for one”, Jim Hacker’s quip would forever ring true. “Either we hang together or we shall be hung individually.”
Adding insult to injury to the Burmese populace under the jackboot now velvet sandals is hardly fair, Ohn. Blaming the victim is an easy thing to do.
Popular struggle/resistance, not least armed struggle of both mainstream and ethnic, is not only a matter of historical record but ongoing. We shall seen soon enough if the regime with nine lives will outlive you and I in this interconnected age where they no longer enjoy a media monopoly.
What about the 9000 tons of gold that little Rosie says the Thai had accumulated? McGreggor Marshall had omitted that gold because little Rosie was all b/s?
I think Khun Nick’s assessment is reasonable. I keep hoping all sides will realize political violence, especially when fueled by hate speech is counter productive — especially when military has near monopoly on instruments of violence. Because of that near monopoly, unless there is an unlikely split in the army, we are unlikely to see big battles like the Boworadet rebellion or even an insurgency like during the CPT era. What seems possible, as Khun Nick suggested, is a long-running battle of bombs, assassinations followed by clumsy repression like we already see in the three southern provinces. Military has been unable to stop that and its actions have often made it worse. Could the political, ethnic, linguistic and economic differences with northeast and north lead us to such slow-burning civil war violence? It would be disastrous to all, but can’t be ruled out.
This is why it is important for all parties to avoid looking at the issues as good vs evil (or red vs yellow) and look for common ground. Exaggerated and inflammatory talking must tone down. Our current inept military regime may actually help civilian political groups focus more on common interests. If military can step back to more normal behind-the-scenes power (and allow that power to gradually diminish as it did from 1992-2005) that would help the country find its way back to some kind of civilian, election-based system that allows various groups a reasonable share of decision-making power and policy benefits.
Forgot to mention the associated colossal concrete slab called high way built for troop movements but the idiotic people of Burma assume as “Highway”, as if it was built for them, has done untold damage to the centuries old forests and forest dwellers some of whom are called elephants. Robbed off traditional foraging grounds and paths they have been killing villagers and are themselves slaughtered en masse not that kindly WWF has any knowledge of it whatsoever as these big piles of maggots are easy to miss to the untrained eyes. And literally piles of elephant carcass products simply keep dropping at Chinese borders.
And of course there were rumours. Rumours. Those tunnels and Big Bad Koreans.
Let’s not talk about unpleasant things in polite company.
It is natural that so many young’s from prospective connecting countries are introduced to a “new” territory. Our own Dr Ferrally might most probably be able to “Ka- Ma- war- phut” (read “Pali” scriptures).
And the common refrain of finding to say something good about whatever the present power holders (same people for the last 60 years, so by all intent and purpose, stable, more stable than any government around the world) do including this Potemkin City is to be found every now and then.
And to be fair with their own worshipping of power holders, the Burmese public (Myanmar if you prefer) have no obvious animosity against that Skeletal Dysney Land.
Yet it is so amusing no one, not a single one, ever mention again that once the hottest subject of forceful- if getting 2 hours to move out of your home and abandon all your livelihood for the whole village by the threat of getting shot can be termed “forceful”- acquisition of the then known as ” kyat pyae” land.
Or multi- billion dollar debt to the Chinese for which the country bisecting Shwe Gash pipeline to be followed by rails would not even cover the interest.
Or multi- million dollars wasted for the up keep of this impotent show piece complete with life size clown dressed self- important ” parliamentarians” on fat pay and many times more perks .
Or for a bunch of oh- so- self conscious idealistic “Equal
Opportunity- ists” the very verifiable fact that many young girls thus uprooted from this land are or have bed or for some had been now selling their bodies at cut price in Mandalay, Muse and yonder.
MAH couldn’t have expected a better mouthpiece than you, SWH. The Lady doth protest too much when she should’ve been putty in the hands of the generals, well, in the event to all intents and purposes.
No, you can’t trust these civilians, can you? Politics is too important to leave it to politicians. It’s the stuff the military is born to do, and how wonderfully well they’ve done over these decades,and of course they should remain at the helm. What do these civilians know? They can’t just change their longyis into trousers. At least the generals can simply change into longyis as they’ve been doing it at home and in govt all the time.
And no to all the killjoys and spoilsports. Logically the big cudgel must remain firmly in the hands of the generals too. Definitely no N word from the NLD or the F word from the minorities either. They should all know their places after all these years. What’s wrong with power wielded by the military for half a century? They deserve a second chance for a second time. Above all they know best what’s in the best interests of the country.
Really an excellent article by Ambiga, calling out both the Malaysia government’s total lack of political commitment and the Obama Administration’s willingness to dump its commitments to human rights in order to advance the US TPP trade agenda. Time for Obama to tell Najib, his golfing buddy and reportedly best friend among SE Asian leaders, that the US expects more before giving an upgrade on its anti-trafficking assessment.
Mahathir is getting old and desparate. He realise, time is running out for him to get his son to be PM. Too bad he does not really ahve support. The loud noises are made only by his over the hill Indian Muslims gang. A sum total of two persons. (read the news)
Actual events showed that Mahathir so called influence is very limited – eg:
1. mahathir tried to condemn Khairy, while promoting his son to be UMNO Youth chief two UMNO election ago – failed miserably – Khairy won by a landslide
2. Mahathir again tried to get his people, including his son to be in UMNO supreme council / VP positions – failed miserably – all his guys, including his son were defeated soundly
3. Mahathir got two of his “proxy” to be named candidate in the previous General Elections – they both almost lost their deposits, so poor were their votes…
The list actually is quite long… but you guys get the drift – all the noise and bravado is just that noise.
There is no “myth” of prejudice for liberal-minded Malays and non-Malays, there is only the myth of Ketuanan Melayu and the purported generosity of hardcore Malays and Muslims, that they have done everything they can to “please” the non-Malays. I would laugh, if I didn’t think another 13/5/69 was impending, and I do….several.
Emjay, you do not show much respect to ordinary Red Shirts by trampling all over what they believe in, and what they have fought for, sacrificing much. The tone of your argumentation is very close to the Salim view – that ordinary Red Shirts are nice people, but mislead by an evil leadership, especially the evil Thaksin. This completely ignores the agency of the ordinary Red Shirts, in particular how they influence their own leadership. A clear proof of this is, an issue that you consistently dismiss, the internal conflict over the amnesty bill, deeply splitting the Red side over “Grang Soi” and “Sud Soi”. The after effects of that split still exist today to some extend.
The configuration in Thailand *today* is that what you simplify as the “UDD/PT condominium” is the closest approximation of a democracy movement that Thailand has, for now. And yes, i am aware that there is much need for improvement. Anything else is just an ivory tower debate with no base in any reality. Their internal discourse (and yes, believe it or not – i do include very much the grass roots level of discussion and debate, and the evolving relationship between ordinary Red Shirts, the UDD leadership and the PT party – how can i not do that – i do not live in a posh Sukhumvit apartment, but in a normal Soi) has been steadily progressing over the years into structural issues.
The simplistic elite based conflict discourse bores me to death, and so does the droning on Thaksin’s and TRT place holder parties supposed evils, and what you (aptly) term of re-arranging the chairs. If would you follow the discourse of the *ordinary Red Shirts* they fortunately are increasingly moving beyond this, and thankfully so. Which does again show that out of what you dismiss as the “UDD/PT condominium” there is something like liberal democratic positions emerging. Thaksin, the UDD, the several rounds of street conflicts have been catalysts. Without all that we would not have this debate here.
For the future of Thailand’s struggle towards democracy i see two scenarios: the presently very unlikely scenario that a “third” force emerges (one that i believe you are hoping for), or, far more likely, that the Red movement continues to improve towards a more democratic movement, as it has done steadily over the past decade.
I do not see any likelihood of the Yellow Alliance moving towards liberal democracy. The few individuals that carry such ideals are far outnumbered and overpowered by the ultra-conservative forces. Needless to say, i do not see anything democratic emerging from the present powers. Neither do i see some sudden making-up and coming-together of Red and Yellow.
A question that i have been asking you several times, and which you have only responded to with insults, i ask you again: How do you see this liberal-democratic force that is neither Red nor Yellow emerging? Where do you see it emerging from? Where do you see such a not yet existing liberal democratic party getting its funding from, its campaign networks, its space in parliamentary politics? It is easy to dismiss and insult everybody, but a lot more difficult to present feasible alternatives and strategies.
And by the way, maybe you confuse me with others, but i have been living here since 1993, came first in 1989, and therefore remember very well pre-Thaksin Thailand, especially also the completely ineffective Chuan 2 government. And i do remember the drug war, its horrific killings (i did take pictures of that), and the dire situation before the drug war. So please, stop stereotyping me here as something i am not.
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Dare to dream big
Given Abbott’s ‘stellar’ success with Jokowi, I think the title is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Australia should dare to dream SMALL when it comes to Indonesia. Jokowi has already sufficiently proven that he is not the President under which, either much-needed microeconomic or grand visionary sociopolitical changes, are likely to take place. While Jokowi has provided no evidence of malfeasance or personal corruption, Abbott has already tasted the bitter flavor of being manipulated (rather easily) by the venal and vain Prime Minister Najib. While Malaysian politics may be riper and more fraught with obvious ethnic complexities, PM Abbott should not bank Australia’s immediate and entire future on President Jokowi or Indonesia. PM Abbott should “Dare to dream small”.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
I thought it was Benjamin Franklin who said about hanging together or else hanging separately. Yes, it’s like first they came for the Socialists…
Marayu makes it sound like the Wild West, the rail road companies and native Americans. Not that it hasn’t a grain of truth in it. But with our chiefs as accomplices selling us down the river. White men speak with forked tongue, Chinese with USD.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
“one for all and all for one” is for old musketeers. The new Chines motto is: “One Belt One Road One Whip One Master Race”
The Sinicisation of the barbaric periphery is proceeding at an alarming pace. Out with Rohingyas (but illegal loggers and miners from China are welcome! ) China needs Lebensraum. More railways to foster Chinese trade and settlements (SEZ’s) including naval bases on the Bay of Bengal. Myandian is and always will be a Chinese takeaway kitchen. Long live Confucius and Jinping Xi!
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
It always amazes me that New Mandala carries SO LITTLE coverage of the Patani conflict. If NM is really interested in objective analysis, and the Thai military can really be SUCH a force for democracy as this article suggests, and the Thai military has been claimimg since 1932, then why not more about Patani?
The gold farmers
New Mandala readers, especially those in Australia, will be interested to note that Nancy Lee Peluso, amongst other other leading international scholars, will be participating in another upcoming conference at the Australian National University, that will focus on the linkages between informal mining and agrarian transitions in the Global South:
“Between the Plough and the Pick: Informal Mining in the Contemporary World”
November 5-6, 2015
Crawford School of Public Policy
The Australian National University
https://crawford.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/events/attachments/2015-07/conference_on_informal_mining_flyer_3.pdf
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
Totally understand your sentiment and respect it. It was rather disappointing that Burmese people cannot connect the injustice done to others as just before their own turn.
Khin Nyunt’s time, to avoid Universiy Avenue they made Parami road extension to Insein Road. Couldn’t forget people sitting in their sitting rooms watching Tele where their house was cut in half like with a bread knife. Commuters on buses thought that was hilarious. Same happened of course in all the “development” areas as well including prime coastal estates the Rohingya vacated with grace.
And Latpadaung!
Unless people realise “One for all and all for one”, Jim Hacker’s quip would forever ring true. “Either we hang together or we shall be hung individually.”
Current lottery winners beware!
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
Adding insult to injury to the Burmese populace under the jackboot now velvet sandals is hardly fair, Ohn. Blaming the victim is an easy thing to do.
Popular struggle/resistance, not least armed struggle of both mainstream and ethnic, is not only a matter of historical record but ongoing. We shall seen soon enough if the regime with nine lives will outlive you and I in this interconnected age where they no longer enjoy a media monopoly.
Political implications of Thailand’s royal succession
The Thai King accumulated, I mean.
Political implications of Thailand’s royal succession
What about the 9000 tons of gold that little Rosie says the Thai had accumulated? McGreggor Marshall had omitted that gold because little Rosie was all b/s?
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
I think Khun Nick’s assessment is reasonable. I keep hoping all sides will realize political violence, especially when fueled by hate speech is counter productive — especially when military has near monopoly on instruments of violence. Because of that near monopoly, unless there is an unlikely split in the army, we are unlikely to see big battles like the Boworadet rebellion or even an insurgency like during the CPT era. What seems possible, as Khun Nick suggested, is a long-running battle of bombs, assassinations followed by clumsy repression like we already see in the three southern provinces. Military has been unable to stop that and its actions have often made it worse. Could the political, ethnic, linguistic and economic differences with northeast and north lead us to such slow-burning civil war violence? It would be disastrous to all, but can’t be ruled out.
This is why it is important for all parties to avoid looking at the issues as good vs evil (or red vs yellow) and look for common ground. Exaggerated and inflammatory talking must tone down. Our current inept military regime may actually help civilian political groups focus more on common interests. If military can step back to more normal behind-the-scenes power (and allow that power to gradually diminish as it did from 1992-2005) that would help the country find its way back to some kind of civilian, election-based system that allows various groups a reasonable share of decision-making power and policy benefits.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
Forgot to mention the associated colossal concrete slab called high way built for troop movements but the idiotic people of Burma assume as “Highway”, as if it was built for them, has done untold damage to the centuries old forests and forest dwellers some of whom are called elephants. Robbed off traditional foraging grounds and paths they have been killing villagers and are themselves slaughtered en masse not that kindly WWF has any knowledge of it whatsoever as these big piles of maggots are easy to miss to the untrained eyes. And literally piles of elephant carcass products simply keep dropping at Chinese borders.
And of course there were rumours. Rumours. Those tunnels and Big Bad Koreans.
Let’s not talk about unpleasant things in polite company.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
It is natural that so many young’s from prospective connecting countries are introduced to a “new” territory. Our own Dr Ferrally might most probably be able to “Ka- Ma- war- phut” (read “Pali” scriptures).
And the common refrain of finding to say something good about whatever the present power holders (same people for the last 60 years, so by all intent and purpose, stable, more stable than any government around the world) do including this Potemkin City is to be found every now and then.
And to be fair with their own worshipping of power holders, the Burmese public (Myanmar if you prefer) have no obvious animosity against that Skeletal Dysney Land.
Yet it is so amusing no one, not a single one, ever mention again that once the hottest subject of forceful- if getting 2 hours to move out of your home and abandon all your livelihood for the whole village by the threat of getting shot can be termed “forceful”- acquisition of the then known as ” kyat pyae” land.
Or multi- billion dollar debt to the Chinese for which the country bisecting Shwe Gash pipeline to be followed by rails would not even cover the interest.
Or multi- million dollars wasted for the up keep of this impotent show piece complete with life size clown dressed self- important ” parliamentarians” on fat pay and many times more perks .
Or for a bunch of oh- so- self conscious idealistic “Equal
Opportunity- ists” the very verifiable fact that many young girls thus uprooted from this land are or have bed or for some had been now selling their bodies at cut price in Mandalay, Muse and yonder.
Is Naypyitaw growing up?
MAH couldn’t have expected a better mouthpiece than you, SWH. The Lady doth protest too much when she should’ve been putty in the hands of the generals, well, in the event to all intents and purposes.
No, you can’t trust these civilians, can you? Politics is too important to leave it to politicians. It’s the stuff the military is born to do, and how wonderfully well they’ve done over these decades,and of course they should remain at the helm. What do these civilians know? They can’t just change their longyis into trousers. At least the generals can simply change into longyis as they’ve been doing it at home and in govt all the time.
And no to all the killjoys and spoilsports. Logically the big cudgel must remain firmly in the hands of the generals too. Definitely no N word from the NLD or the F word from the minorities either. They should all know their places after all these years. What’s wrong with power wielded by the military for half a century? They deserve a second chance for a second time. Above all they know best what’s in the best interests of the country.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
!Marayu
Posted July 25, 2015 at 9:20 PM
Buddha was a “Kalar”, no?
” 6 degree of separation.”
Surprised
Malaysia’s deadly connection
Really an excellent article by Ambiga, calling out both the Malaysia government’s total lack of political commitment and the Obama Administration’s willingness to dump its commitments to human rights in order to advance the US TPP trade agenda. Time for Obama to tell Najib, his golfing buddy and reportedly best friend among SE Asian leaders, that the US expects more before giving an upgrade on its anti-trafficking assessment.
Dear Malaysia: Mahathir is no messiah
Mahathir is getting old and desparate. He realise, time is running out for him to get his son to be PM. Too bad he does not really ahve support. The loud noises are made only by his over the hill Indian Muslims gang. A sum total of two persons. (read the news)
Actual events showed that Mahathir so called influence is very limited – eg:
1. mahathir tried to condemn Khairy, while promoting his son to be UMNO Youth chief two UMNO election ago – failed miserably – Khairy won by a landslide
2. Mahathir again tried to get his people, including his son to be in UMNO supreme council / VP positions – failed miserably – all his guys, including his son were defeated soundly
3. Mahathir got two of his “proxy” to be named candidate in the previous General Elections – they both almost lost their deposits, so poor were their votes…
The list actually is quite long… but you guys get the drift – all the noise and bravado is just that noise.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
Sadly the story goes that “Oke-thar-pe-gu” is derived from Orissa as the traders came from there. So, hmmm….
In Malaysian politics, keep calm and amok on!
There is no “myth” of prejudice for liberal-minded Malays and non-Malays, there is only the myth of Ketuanan Melayu and the purported generosity of hardcore Malays and Muslims, that they have done everything they can to “please” the non-Malays. I would laugh, if I didn’t think another 13/5/69 was impending, and I do….several.
Dear Malaysia: Mahathir is no messiah
Mahathir ? Maybe the Mahdi of Madness, but not any known Messiah, and I doubt he has even heard of Friedrich Handel.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Emjay, you do not show much respect to ordinary Red Shirts by trampling all over what they believe in, and what they have fought for, sacrificing much. The tone of your argumentation is very close to the Salim view – that ordinary Red Shirts are nice people, but mislead by an evil leadership, especially the evil Thaksin. This completely ignores the agency of the ordinary Red Shirts, in particular how they influence their own leadership. A clear proof of this is, an issue that you consistently dismiss, the internal conflict over the amnesty bill, deeply splitting the Red side over “Grang Soi” and “Sud Soi”. The after effects of that split still exist today to some extend.
The configuration in Thailand *today* is that what you simplify as the “UDD/PT condominium” is the closest approximation of a democracy movement that Thailand has, for now. And yes, i am aware that there is much need for improvement. Anything else is just an ivory tower debate with no base in any reality. Their internal discourse (and yes, believe it or not – i do include very much the grass roots level of discussion and debate, and the evolving relationship between ordinary Red Shirts, the UDD leadership and the PT party – how can i not do that – i do not live in a posh Sukhumvit apartment, but in a normal Soi) has been steadily progressing over the years into structural issues.
The simplistic elite based conflict discourse bores me to death, and so does the droning on Thaksin’s and TRT place holder parties supposed evils, and what you (aptly) term of re-arranging the chairs. If would you follow the discourse of the *ordinary Red Shirts* they fortunately are increasingly moving beyond this, and thankfully so. Which does again show that out of what you dismiss as the “UDD/PT condominium” there is something like liberal democratic positions emerging. Thaksin, the UDD, the several rounds of street conflicts have been catalysts. Without all that we would not have this debate here.
For the future of Thailand’s struggle towards democracy i see two scenarios: the presently very unlikely scenario that a “third” force emerges (one that i believe you are hoping for), or, far more likely, that the Red movement continues to improve towards a more democratic movement, as it has done steadily over the past decade.
I do not see any likelihood of the Yellow Alliance moving towards liberal democracy. The few individuals that carry such ideals are far outnumbered and overpowered by the ultra-conservative forces. Needless to say, i do not see anything democratic emerging from the present powers. Neither do i see some sudden making-up and coming-together of Red and Yellow.
A question that i have been asking you several times, and which you have only responded to with insults, i ask you again: How do you see this liberal-democratic force that is neither Red nor Yellow emerging? Where do you see it emerging from? Where do you see such a not yet existing liberal democratic party getting its funding from, its campaign networks, its space in parliamentary politics? It is easy to dismiss and insult everybody, but a lot more difficult to present feasible alternatives and strategies.
And by the way, maybe you confuse me with others, but i have been living here since 1993, came first in 1989, and therefore remember very well pre-Thaksin Thailand, especially also the completely ineffective Chuan 2 government. And i do remember the drug war, its horrific killings (i did take pictures of that), and the dire situation before the drug war. So please, stop stereotyping me here as something i am not.