When you write out tickets, that means you can not pocket the cash.
Really? A few years back, I was pulled over for having an expired government insurance sticker (though I had valid private cover). Got asked if I could read Thai (answer “no”). Ticket duly written out and 500 baht fine demanded. When I showed the ticket to a Thai friend later, he laughed. It wasn’t for the insurance lapse (for which the fine is 200 baht) but for a more expensive (profitable?) “not using seatbelt” violation (need I say that I was using it?).
Perhaps you’ll think the cops were just on a “productivity” scheme?
During the PDRC protests, the number of protesters visibly went up on weekends and holidays. It’s also important to note the role that powerful people played in Bangkok to pressure people to attend rallies. For example, I was working at Mahidol University at the time, and during the “Bangkok shutdown” the president of the university called a holiday and shut down the university. Ostensibly, this was over safety concerns, but the main Mahidol campus is located in Phutthamonthon, far from the protest sites. The holiday was a transparent effort to encourage students and employees to attend the PDRC rallies.
Professors, Deans, and other supervisors let their support of the PDRC be known often in inappropriate setting or when the business at hand was completely unrelated. For example, the president of the university made an official statement and sent out a mass e-mail touting his support (and apparently the support of all of Mahidol University) for the PDRC. University employees were pressured by their superiors and colleagues to attend rallies together with other employees. If they were not present, many people feared career consequences. As a foreigner, I was largely exempt from these pressures and a number of my colleagues confided in me that they did not support the PDRC, but they were often afraid to say this in front of other colleagues.
Finally someone pointing out the obvious, if thailand is to flourish as a society, police reform is a priority.
The police habe always been the one of the least trusted institutions in thailand. The other 2 of the bottom 3 are parliament and the media. I think media are the least trusted of all.
A long overdue piece. While it’s the norm for organisers to exaggerate numbers (and conversely for those opposed to diminish them), the ultra-slick and well-resourced PDRC PR machine took the numbers inflation game to giddy new heights.
As touched upon in the article, PDRC made a huge effort and latterly deployed quasi-science to [cough] “prove” their numbers claims – as evidenced in Sathit’s efforts described here.
Even in the very early days of the protests, lead PDRC PR operator Akanat (speaking on Al Jazeera) twice in one programme claimed “hundreds of thousands” decamping from the Samsen station rally site to Rachadamnern – a truly remarkable achievement given the rather limited size of the station’s car park and any of the crowd estimates cited as having filled it (see Bangkok Pundit).
And so the creative numbers game continued until it passed “a million” to reach its absurd zenith with that “six million” – unblushingly cited and re-cited by PDRC and its affiliates as established fact (see the first minutes of http://youtu.be/pQVjUsKSKUE for just one example).
As Talcoth correctly points out, these fantastical numbers have now become embedded in PDRC “history” and one still sees them quoted by the faithful. The relative ease with which that happened (and was almost never challenged – or even commented upon – by most Thai mainstream media) should be a lesson to us all.
From my “expertise” and recent return from
Malaysia, I can tell you, for once, Bukit Aman is correct, this was a Tong turf war
and not a terrorist attack. The intel and the forensics do not point to ISIS at all.
I am not downplaying the possibility, but the evidence suggest otherwise. Speaking generically, extremist Malays often look to their larger neighbour for jihadist guidance. That may change, but one has to be very careful, since innumerable “sedition” charges have been issued to practically every Malaysian, except terrorists.
PDRC got a very good media campaign and claimed a moral high ground. Even on TV, some PDRC admitted that they are a minority, but maintain that the majority was bought/fool/tricked by populist policy.
It’s boiled down to failure of Thai media to question the claim of both side critically.
If anyone watched Scottish TV referendum debate, the value of free media really shine. When one side cited an unnamed source or claim on prime time TV, the moderator immediately follow up with “Who?” or “Please explain that”.
But Thai people still stuck with perception that the world is black and white, line between good and evil is clearly define, and conflict avoidance.
What compounded the numbers game effect was that media did not dare to publish estimates of protesters anymore due to safety concerns after several journalists were attacked for having reported numbers that did not conform to PDRC propaganda.
Over the months of protests i have kept a regular record on numbers of protesters at the different rally sites, drawn from different intelligence sources – the only place where accurate numbers were taken.
While on a few peak days there were around 200 000 to 250 000 protesters, on normal days numbers were actually shockingly low. During long stretches, especially after the Laksi incident, and more so when the PDRC retreated into Lumpini Park and ended the ‘Bangkok Shutdown’ the daytime numbers were in the thousands, and in the evening hours after work rarely climbed over 12 000.
Also on the peak days the level of organized mobilization was quite staggering, with people driven in by buses and vans from Democrat Party strongholds in the south, and also from all districts in Bangkok were people were picked up in vans. Democrat Party MP’s, local politicians and allied networks were given preset numbers and funds to organize this show.
The longer the protests took, the more difficult it was for the PDRC and the Democrat Party leadership to still get the numbers. People who came by themselves often stopped coming, most likely as the protests turned violent, and also many local networks stopped sending people, to a large part because there were difficulties with money flows (such as some networks in my district).
After the ‘Bangkok Shutdown’ ended, the PDRC protests were to the largest part driven by Southerners.
While i could not personally observe the protests zones, fortunately 80% of my network of sources was still intact. There is a lot more to say about the mechanics of the PDRC protests. Some will remain in the dark, as the PDRC was a lot less transparent than the Red Shirts and even the PAD of 2006 and 2008. But there still is sufficient information to piece together.
“The Love of Hitler Leads a Nazi Revival in Indonesia”
NEWSWEEK
By Aaron Akinyemi / October 9, 2014
But let’s not generalize about the most
populous Islamic nation, shall we ? After
all, it’s only, say, 0.1 % of the
nation, and it’s only quantity that counts,
not quality, right ?
We’d be happy to take pieces that seek to answer any of those big questions. You can send them to me at the usual place. For details on how to write for New Mandala see this recent invitation. I’m reminded that years ago we published a list of other questions — some of which are still pertinent to this discussion.
Unfortunately, Megawati let very “little light into the system” leading a government as opaque as every other Indonesian Government. Anwar is still an issue, but he is not the main issue, though he would like to be. Bogus sedition charges against 15 opposition politicians, journalists and activists, none of whom are extremist jihadists, is farcical. The continued persecution of Kassim Ahmed, demonstrates that Malaysia’s version of Shaf’i Islam is
a bizarre one, if it not another Islamic school entirely. Racism and calls for ejecting non-Malays have reached threatening levels, and Prime Minister Najib was an avid ISIS and Malay jihadist supporter, before he finally figured out, that even some Arab leaders weren’t, and Malaysia got Najib 2.0.
This is probably the 100th example of the Prime Minister’s erratic, disingenuous and, frankly, immature behavior. UMNO/BN continues to clamp down on the nation in all aspects, so while there may be some hope for
reform in Jakarta, depending on how independent Jokowi actually turns out to be,
the news from Malaysia is, “No, we are not democratic, and in fact, far less so than 30 years ago”. The likely next Prime Minister
of Malaysia, given all viable opposition choices have been illegally charged, is Zahid Hamidi, a man for whom, leather jackets, jackboots, stiff arm salutes, and fascist tendencies, are all good things. Yeah, I would say Malaysia has problems.
“Thais love rules and regulations”. Perhaps you’re right , Lolitas Brother, but maybe they like rules and regulations that they have some input into making. And maybe, some of them just like to impose their own rules and regulations on other Thais.
How can contemporary versions of Thainess be reconstructed around a more democratic and expansive notion?
What kind of shape and form should a sustainable democratic Thailand take?
What would be the key ideas that would help establish that?
What can be done to reduce the influence of the military?
How can the military be opposed, culturally, socially and on the street?
What were the failings of the UDD and the Red Shirts?
I could go on and on.
But there is so much more that could be discussed and debated rather than introducing, yet again, the dominant royalist perspective and then wheeling out, yet again, the same voices, the same responses over and over and over again.
No my expenditure figures wrong. Depending on which Country Tourist comes from, could be total expenditure $1500. Tourists or Visitors include Asia. So say 25 million tourists at $1500 expenditure, is still over $35 billion.
I did not say anything about attitudes of Police, I just noticed they appeared to be doing the job. When you write out tickets, that means you can not pocket the cash.
There seems to be a virulent and malignant cynicism on NM.
25 million visitors not necessarily Westerners] to Thailand each year, average expenditure $2,500. $55 billion dollars.
GDP Thailand about $480 billion. Various sources . You can do simple arithmetic can you Robert, maybe not that’s close to 5%.
The arrogance and malignancy in this column are palpable. People are interested in what Westerners think, its natural, especially those in Isaan who were bailed out by their Western relatives. Its not advice, its discussion, and in my case needs interpreter
I wrote to Blaxland., to ask him why he would write an article to people who already know everything, and are bitter and twisted.
Daniels ‘They would also generally contend that religions are not actors and that it is the believers and practitioners who are peaceful or violent.’
After establishing Islam in Medina did not Muhammad and his followers then embark on wars of conquest? They were ‘actors’ were they not.
Daniels makes the valid point that other religions have made war and used violence. It doesn’t negate the fact that Islam has done this.
His last paragraph makes the often made point that the actions of the western powers have stirred up hatred and inspired retaliation. I think this is true but beside the point as regards the inherent violence or peacefulness of Islam.The quotations from the Koran above make clear some of the contradictions contained within it but certainly show that violent acts are ordered in some suras. Furthermore, those Muslims living in the House of War (ie non Muslim states) are enjoined to as the name implies make war on the unbelievers. They are allowed to live peacefully until such time as they can take effective action or have become a majority and are told to lie if need be in order to achieve their aims.
Islam is not a religion of peace until the whole world is in the House of Islam. Until that (highly unlikely) outcome it remains a religion which commands violence against unbelievers and apostates.
As a student under a government scholarship I have seen this is true. The decisions made regarding our future (the scholars) do not seem to be much informed or well-researched. They all have good intentions I am sure, but their policy making is very reactionary and not open to scrutiny at all. For some of us who want to reach high and get into top unis, some decisions are hindering rather thank helping – silly things that can be solved – when it would only be in line with the government’s mission to help us get to the very top.
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Thai Police: Intent to reform?
When you write out tickets, that means you can not pocket the cash.
Really? A few years back, I was pulled over for having an expired government insurance sticker (though I had valid private cover). Got asked if I could read Thai (answer “no”). Ticket duly written out and 500 baht fine demanded. When I showed the ticket to a Thai friend later, he laughed. It wasn’t for the insurance lapse (for which the fine is 200 baht) but for a more expensive (profitable?) “not using seatbelt” violation (need I say that I was using it?).
Perhaps you’ll think the cops were just on a “productivity” scheme?
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
During the PDRC protests, the number of protesters visibly went up on weekends and holidays. It’s also important to note the role that powerful people played in Bangkok to pressure people to attend rallies. For example, I was working at Mahidol University at the time, and during the “Bangkok shutdown” the president of the university called a holiday and shut down the university. Ostensibly, this was over safety concerns, but the main Mahidol campus is located in Phutthamonthon, far from the protest sites. The holiday was a transparent effort to encourage students and employees to attend the PDRC rallies.
Professors, Deans, and other supervisors let their support of the PDRC be known often in inappropriate setting or when the business at hand was completely unrelated. For example, the president of the university made an official statement and sent out a mass e-mail touting his support (and apparently the support of all of Mahidol University) for the PDRC. University employees were pressured by their superiors and colleagues to attend rallies together with other employees. If they were not present, many people feared career consequences. As a foreigner, I was largely exempt from these pressures and a number of my colleagues confided in me that they did not support the PDRC, but they were often afraid to say this in front of other colleagues.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
Finally someone pointing out the obvious, if thailand is to flourish as a society, police reform is a priority.
The police habe always been the one of the least trusted institutions in thailand. The other 2 of the bottom 3 are parliament and the media. I think media are the least trusted of all.
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
A long overdue piece. While it’s the norm for organisers to exaggerate numbers (and conversely for those opposed to diminish them), the ultra-slick and well-resourced PDRC PR machine took the numbers inflation game to giddy new heights.
As touched upon in the article, PDRC made a huge effort and latterly deployed quasi-science to [cough] “prove” their numbers claims – as evidenced in Sathit’s efforts described here.
Even in the very early days of the protests, lead PDRC PR operator Akanat (speaking on Al Jazeera) twice in one programme claimed “hundreds of thousands” decamping from the Samsen station rally site to Rachadamnern – a truly remarkable achievement given the rather limited size of the station’s car park and any of the crowd estimates cited as having filled it (see Bangkok Pundit).
And so the creative numbers game continued until it passed “a million” to reach its absurd zenith with that “six million” – unblushingly cited and re-cited by PDRC and its affiliates as established fact (see the first minutes of http://youtu.be/pQVjUsKSKUE for just one example).
As Talcoth correctly points out, these fantastical numbers have now become embedded in PDRC “history” and one still sees them quoted by the faithful. The relative ease with which that happened (and was almost never challenged – or even commented upon – by most Thai mainstream media) should be a lesson to us all.
Islam: A religion of peace
Greg,
From my “expertise” and recent return from
Malaysia, I can tell you, for once, Bukit Aman is correct, this was a Tong turf war
and not a terrorist attack. The intel and the forensics do not point to ISIS at all.
I am not downplaying the possibility, but the evidence suggest otherwise. Speaking generically, extremist Malays often look to their larger neighbour for jihadist guidance. That may change, but one has to be very careful, since innumerable “sedition” charges have been issued to practically every Malaysian, except terrorists.
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
PDRC got a very good media campaign and claimed a moral high ground. Even on TV, some PDRC admitted that they are a minority, but maintain that the majority was bought/fool/tricked by populist policy.
It’s boiled down to failure of Thai media to question the claim of both side critically.
If anyone watched Scottish TV referendum debate, the value of free media really shine. When one side cited an unnamed source or claim on prime time TV, the moderator immediately follow up with “Who?” or “Please explain that”.
But Thai people still stuck with perception that the world is black and white, line between good and evil is clearly define, and conflict avoidance.
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
What compounded the numbers game effect was that media did not dare to publish estimates of protesters anymore due to safety concerns after several journalists were attacked for having reported numbers that did not conform to PDRC propaganda.
Over the months of protests i have kept a regular record on numbers of protesters at the different rally sites, drawn from different intelligence sources – the only place where accurate numbers were taken.
While on a few peak days there were around 200 000 to 250 000 protesters, on normal days numbers were actually shockingly low. During long stretches, especially after the Laksi incident, and more so when the PDRC retreated into Lumpini Park and ended the ‘Bangkok Shutdown’ the daytime numbers were in the thousands, and in the evening hours after work rarely climbed over 12 000.
Also on the peak days the level of organized mobilization was quite staggering, with people driven in by buses and vans from Democrat Party strongholds in the south, and also from all districts in Bangkok were people were picked up in vans. Democrat Party MP’s, local politicians and allied networks were given preset numbers and funds to organize this show.
The longer the protests took, the more difficult it was for the PDRC and the Democrat Party leadership to still get the numbers. People who came by themselves often stopped coming, most likely as the protests turned violent, and also many local networks stopped sending people, to a large part because there were difficulties with money flows (such as some networks in my district).
After the ‘Bangkok Shutdown’ ended, the PDRC protests were to the largest part driven by Southerners.
While i could not personally observe the protests zones, fortunately 80% of my network of sources was still intact. There is a lot more to say about the mechanics of the PDRC protests. Some will remain in the dark, as the PDRC was a lot less transparent than the Red Shirts and even the PAD of 2006 and 2008. But there still is sufficient information to piece together.
Islam, a religion of peace
“The Love of Hitler Leads a Nazi Revival in Indonesia”
NEWSWEEK
By Aaron Akinyemi / October 9, 2014
But let’s not generalize about the most
populous Islamic nation, shall we ? After
all, it’s only, say, 0.1 % of the
nation, and it’s only quantity that counts,
not quality, right ?
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/17/love-hitler-leads-nazi-revival-indonesia-276049.html
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Lolitas your original claim concerned long term western residents not tourists.Of course tourists contribute more than 5% of GDP.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Now we can be ascertained that Prayuth will maintain present Thailand for visitor.
So what are the issues that will torpedo such situation?
Constant squabbling b/t the Red and the Yellow that disrupt the tourism that makes Thailand economy.
Constant squabbling b/t legislature w/o the King to modify any decision.
Military domination will expedite any southern Muslim problem as well as the drug import from Myanmar.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
We’d be happy to take pieces that seek to answer any of those big questions. You can send them to me at the usual place. For details on how to write for New Mandala see this recent invitation. I’m reminded that years ago we published a list of other questions — some of which are still pertinent to this discussion.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Murky democratic dawn in Southeast Asia
Unfortunately, Megawati let very “little light into the system” leading a government as opaque as every other Indonesian Government. Anwar is still an issue, but he is not the main issue, though he would like to be. Bogus sedition charges against 15 opposition politicians, journalists and activists, none of whom are extremist jihadists, is farcical. The continued persecution of Kassim Ahmed, demonstrates that Malaysia’s version of Shaf’i Islam is
a bizarre one, if it not another Islamic school entirely. Racism and calls for ejecting non-Malays have reached threatening levels, and Prime Minister Najib was an avid ISIS and Malay jihadist supporter, before he finally figured out, that even some Arab leaders weren’t, and Malaysia got Najib 2.0.
This is probably the 100th example of the Prime Minister’s erratic, disingenuous and, frankly, immature behavior. UMNO/BN continues to clamp down on the nation in all aspects, so while there may be some hope for
reform in Jakarta, depending on how independent Jokowi actually turns out to be,
the news from Malaysia is, “No, we are not democratic, and in fact, far less so than 30 years ago”. The likely next Prime Minister
of Malaysia, given all viable opposition choices have been illegally charged, is Zahid Hamidi, a man for whom, leather jackets, jackboots, stiff arm salutes, and fascist tendencies, are all good things. Yeah, I would say Malaysia has problems.
Islam: A religion of peace
Has ISIS finally made its way to Malaysia?
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/was-bomb-blast-the-work-of-muslim-extremists-ask-malaysians
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
“Thais love rules and regulations”. Perhaps you’re right , Lolitas Brother, but maybe they like rules and regulations that they have some input into making. And maybe, some of them just like to impose their own rules and regulations on other Thais.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Sure.
How can contemporary versions of Thainess be reconstructed around a more democratic and expansive notion?
What kind of shape and form should a sustainable democratic Thailand take?
What would be the key ideas that would help establish that?
What can be done to reduce the influence of the military?
How can the military be opposed, culturally, socially and on the street?
What were the failings of the UDD and the Red Shirts?
I could go on and on.
But there is so much more that could be discussed and debated rather than introducing, yet again, the dominant royalist perspective and then wheeling out, yet again, the same voices, the same responses over and over and over again.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
No my expenditure figures wrong. Depending on which Country Tourist comes from, could be total expenditure $1500. Tourists or Visitors include Asia. So say 25 million tourists at $1500 expenditure, is still over $35 billion.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
I did not say anything about attitudes of Police, I just noticed they appeared to be doing the job. When you write out tickets, that means you can not pocket the cash.
There seems to be a virulent and malignant cynicism on NM.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
25 million visitors not necessarily Westerners] to Thailand each year, average expenditure $2,500. $55 billion dollars.
GDP Thailand about $480 billion. Various sources . You can do simple arithmetic can you Robert, maybe not that’s close to 5%.
The arrogance and malignancy in this column are palpable. People are interested in what Westerners think, its natural, especially those in Isaan who were bailed out by their Western relatives. Its not advice, its discussion, and in my case needs interpreter
I wrote to Blaxland., to ask him why he would write an article to people who already know everything, and are bitter and twisted.
Islam, a religion of peace
Daniels ‘They would also generally contend that religions are not actors and that it is the believers and practitioners who are peaceful or violent.’
After establishing Islam in Medina did not Muhammad and his followers then embark on wars of conquest? They were ‘actors’ were they not.
Daniels makes the valid point that other religions have made war and used violence. It doesn’t negate the fact that Islam has done this.
His last paragraph makes the often made point that the actions of the western powers have stirred up hatred and inspired retaliation. I think this is true but beside the point as regards the inherent violence or peacefulness of Islam.The quotations from the Koran above make clear some of the contradictions contained within it but certainly show that violent acts are ordered in some suras. Furthermore, those Muslims living in the House of War (ie non Muslim states) are enjoined to as the name implies make war on the unbelievers. They are allowed to live peacefully until such time as they can take effective action or have become a majority and are told to lie if need be in order to achieve their aims.
Islam is not a religion of peace until the whole world is in the House of Islam. Until that (highly unlikely) outcome it remains a religion which commands violence against unbelievers and apostates.
Who makes public policy in Malaysia?
As a student under a government scholarship I have seen this is true. The decisions made regarding our future (the scholars) do not seem to be much informed or well-researched. They all have good intentions I am sure, but their policy making is very reactionary and not open to scrutiny at all. For some of us who want to reach high and get into top unis, some decisions are hindering rather thank helping – silly things that can be solved – when it would only be in line with the government’s mission to help us get to the very top.