To your point Modi actually swept some of the most educated areas – the cities Bangalore, Delhi and Mumbai. I was looking at trends across the country that would explain the overall high numbers for the BJP. Probowo got many votes from the educated urban elite.The well educated % in both countries is still low. A lot really depends on the votes that come in from the huge number of people with basic literacy. I think it would be worth a specialists time to do a large n study on this.
“…Its pretty sad that even Greg Lopz cannot se that the solid vote for the Taib and his successr are strong endorsement of the Peninsular led BN coalition….”
This is an interesting observation forrestcat.
Is it true that a “solid vote” for the Sarawak based parties in Sarawak (I believe only MCA is a national party that has some representation in Sarawak as none of the other Peninsular based parties are represented in Sarawak) who are part of the BN, a vote for BN as a whole including UMNO?
How rich is Luhut Binsar Panjaitan, he is definitely no scion of the Tata group. For all Jokowi association with military generals, how that compare with Modi close association and active participation in chauvinist Hindu organizations. Its the equivalent of having some who was an ex-member of FPI as President. The BJP has members of Sri Rama Sena in their ranks, that is the Gerindra allow the FPI to join its ranks. Even Gerindra won’t allow FPI members to become Gerindra members. Despite what you say about Gerindra, they keep their paramilitary thugs at greater distance than the BJP does.
Arvind Kejriwaal is not PM, and his is not even Chief Minister of Delhi,he quit after 6 weeks. I can criticize rich people, but how does that improve the livelihood of the poor? But if Jokowi was to start criticizing the rich, people would be calling him out for being anti-Chinese.
India is the great country on earth. I bow before the magnificence of Indian democracy. Despite all your talk about the religious tolerance of India, the fact is your beloved India, has instituted anti-conversion laws in some states. In fact the current PM, instituted such laws in Gujarat. I thought they had religious freedom in India. As for persecution of Shia and Ahmadiyah, how many low caste men have been burned to a crisp in the cow belt for defending their women against rape by higher caste men. Anti-Caste violence in India has with far grater frequency than persecution of religious minorities in Indonesia, but since its accepted, the West does not complain. Why didn’t the Federal Government in India do anything about it?
As for Indonesia being an Islamic nation, for much of its history, when it wasn’t a democracy, Muslim were actually persecuted and their religious freedoms curbed in the name of secularism. Muslims women were allowed to wear head coverings in state institutions whether schools or universities. And even in Islamic schools. Would India ban the Sikhs from wearing the Kirpa or laws concerning protection of cattle (beef) in its Constitution. Why just cattle, why not chicken, pigs or goats etc.
From a blunt legal assessment of the Indonesian vs Indian Constitution, the Indian one is far more riddle with “Hinduism” than the Indonesian one with respect or Islam.
Indonesia is a military dictatorship, you are correct, so it should be held to a lower standard than India, a democracy. India elected an PM who was most likely involved in abetting the slaughter of thousands of Muslims. What a tolerant society, I want to move there right now.
As for your Catholic Hindoo convert who leads the a major party in India, would she have become that PM had she not been the wife of one Indian PM and the daughter law of another. India has been ruled by Gandhi-Nehru for 46 out of 67 years, and total of 56 years for the Congress as a whole total. Indonesia has been ruled by the Sukarno family for 19 out of 65 years. 32 Years by Suharto, 14 years by others. Which one would you a military dictatorship or feudal-democracy where one family has more or less ruled the country for most of its history.
BY the way Chinese Indonesians can form their own parties. So can Catholics, Christians. The problem is you don’t know enough about Indonesian politics to realize that such parties do exist. The problem is they don’t get enough votes.
Great write-up. As a big fan of Kassim Ahmad I hope one day more Malays/Muslims consider fairly his ideas. truly a giant of the Malay intellectual world. But i guess like most greats, his ideas will only be appreciated when he’s gone.
I am in agreement with your observation. Indeed, this election saw far more activity along religious lines compared to 2009. I was making a comparison with India where the BJP strongly identified with religion and that led to an electoral points surge – more so than here. But yes, religion and political Islam perhaps ought not to be conflated.
You have a funky understanding of what autocracy means
Cambridge Dictionary defines autocracy as: government by a single person or small group that has unlimited power or authority, or the power or authority of such a person or group
I am not sure about you but that sounds nothing like Indonesia to me.
An interesting comparison — and one that I expect will continue to receive critical attention.
Still, some of the analysis seemed shallow. One point that, in particular, bothered me was the implication that Indonesia and India’s different electoral outcomes could be explained by differences in literacy rates. There may be some truth to this, but it is a big claim and thus requires greater evidence than the author provides. Without such evidence, it sounds as though the author is saying that only uneducated voters voted for Modi/Prabowo and only smarter, better educated voters voted for Jokowi. This is an overly-simplified narrative that doesn’t advance this interesting comparison.
Your comments are funny. You find the rare unimportant exceptions to prove my very point about India. NO, Indonesia is not a working Democracy, yet. India has been for about 65 years. Please don’t waste time with prevarications and obvious dissembling.
India is far more diverse politically than Indonesia. Your rather meagre examples are
useless. Indonesia has not had a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu (purely Hindu), Taoist or Marxist President, and will not, for many years to come. The mere fact that there are several legal Communist Parties in India, and the mere mention of Communism in Indonesia will get strong whispers, at best. Don’t even attempt to compare the open ideological system in India with Indonesia. Go ahead, start a new Communist Party with the logo of Soekarno. Good luck with that.
Your barely-relevant examples compare in no way to India. Call me when one of the major parties in Indonesia is headed by an Italian born convert to Islam, who is fluent in Bahasa Indonesia, and is one of the most prominent politicians in Jakarta and is accepted as a genuine Indonesian. Call me when there is a Parliament in Indonesia, totally devoid of military people. Already Prabowo supporters are trying to make Jokowi sound like he is the hands of the military
(which I don’t believe). They did that during the elections. Indian elections aren’t perfect but, then candidates don’t accuse each other of being proxies for the Indian Army. Indian Parties do not squabble over military connections, period. Call me when Indonesia has a two-star JEWISH General that led one of the most important campaigns in Indonesian history. You will be lucky if the Jewish man isn’t run out of town as a “Zionist Conspirator”, something no Jew in India was ever accused of. I urge you to read about General Jacob and his role in the various Indian military campaigns. Every Indian, including former Muslim Presidents of India, have honoured General Jacob. Please don’t make me out to be a fool and tell me such things happen in Indonesia, when they don’t. Yeah, how many Hindu, Chinese and Catholic Generals in Indonesia now ?
I didn’t hear you. And, yes, Benny Moerdani is no longer with us, that doesn’t count.
You do not know what nation you are talking about, let alone what century we are living in. Unless you have been in Indonesia and India for a total of 40 years, which it is clear, you have not, spare me your attempts at political revisionism of Indonesia into something it is not. Indonesia is an Islamic nation, with minorities. India is a Democracy that is 15 % Muslim, as well as having Parsees, Christians, Jains, Jews, Buddhists and others. And for at least two of these (Parsees and Jews), don’t even dare to tell me that in Indonesia they would be treated more tolerantly, than in India, where they have lived, completely free, for several thousand years, while Shi’ites and Ahamdiyas
are regularly persecuted in Indonesia. Wow, 2 Sino-Indonesia !! I have news Mr Evans, in autocratic Malaysia, Chinese even are allowed to have their own parties, as are Indians. Spare me any more lectures, bone up on Indonesia and India, as you are most bereft of knowledge, of either nation.
Sir, it is Peace Process that shall be prioritized in Burma / Myanmar as today on 9 August during John Kerry, US State Secretary visit. Unless President U Thein Sein and Ethnic Armed Organization’s leaders signed and honored the Peace Agreement, a call for Burma’s middle power in Southeast Asia is premature. After 65 years of armed conflict, and broken social, political and economic system, and Burma is behind Vietnam, it is a super task that our leaders have to be ready for a new leadership. In post 2015 General election, Burma will be in a new political climate. After 26 years of post democracy campaign led by students, monks and ordinary citizens, Burma may not reached its own unity within unless national reconciliation is achieved. The current government is totally dominated ex-military officers. Civilian MPs have little influence to the policy makers. Most MPs have been calling through local Burmese media that they are not fully informed the policy of government in many fronts. It is too early to call a middle power unless peace agreement is honored and a united national – federal government system is formed. However, Burma’s leaders from all sides must find the balance act for common national interest.
State Monks’ Council (aka) State Sasana Council is formed in late 1950s after Burma gained independent. Ministry of Religious Affairs is also created in later year. After 65 years of its function, the teaching of Buddha’s literature has been revived and delivered systematically. Burma’s national leaders have been inherited the ‘norm and value’ of Buddha’s teaching. However, separation of ‘State and Religions’ have never been properly discussed among national leaders and legislators. Perhaps, this is the time that the current parliament and the legislators could looking at core issues on separation of ‘State and Religion’ like other democratic and diverse faith based communities in Burma. I also have formed the views that Burma shall be creating a multicultural society under the norm of rule of laws and access to equality. However, it may take 20-30 years for a newly formed government’s public policy makers. Burmese nationalism is the core ingredient on this conflict but we have to form a balance views on ‘good and evil’ act of individual rather than blaming the whole nation.
joseph is nota sarawakian name, its an alien name to sarawak.
Where are the abangs and Antanoms.
Angliphile and i migrant chinese do not represent sarawakian voice.
Its pretty sad that even Greg Lopz cannot se that the solid vote for the Taib and his successr are strong endorsement of the Peninsular led BN coalition.
Sarawak interethnic relations is not as rosy as it seem, even with the natives and immigramt chinese going to chirch, both compete for the states political and economic resources. Local political parties in Sarawak are also based along etnic lines.
If Sarawak gain indepedence, the question whether the chinese, iban or malanau should rule will also add complexity to such a situation.
Come on, MM. Lighten up. Doesn’t it strike you that Srithanonchai may not be criticizing his erstwhile colleague Puangthong as much as giving vent to envy of the professional success of his compatriot Grabowsky?
Starting from public domain events- Thamada Gyi is so trust-able,let’s say nothing about the Pipe, let the Chinese have a free hand in the Miandan Land as they own it, Kalars are a threat to the humanity all around the world -therefore they deserve to be tortured and starve to die horribly let alone treated any decent way, etc. etc. There is not a single thing this woman have done for the country – there was ans are opportunities.
Popularity is a fickle thing. Yes, it can be used to steer the people to shepherd anyway one wants- as we will now see in Indonesia.
But this sedate, orderly fantasy of these “elections” and “democracy” and “civil organizations” BS have so far led the country to the most violent, lawless and immoral state already and it will simply get worse. To quote that champion of the “oppressed” Christine Lagarde, this elections and all that BS is simply like arguing about the color of bathing suit while a tsunami is coming along.
America though has been ruled by anonymous people most likely related to that Milner-Rhodes invented and successfully perpetuated Round Table crowd and Rockefeller-Morgan-Rothschild group for so long- at the least since the time of that Princeton Professor Wilson-, they would believe any choice -like Big Mac or Chicken Nugget or Pepsi or Coke- as DEEEmocracy.
Alternative to Aung San Suu Kyi! Now that is definitely uncalled for. All these demagogues have been thorough instruments of oppression by other means by people who made them- currently Jokowi is one new offspring- Aung San Suu Kyi, Mandela, Dalai Lama, Havel,etc. Clue is the “Idol” produced from nowhere by “Celebrities”, politicians, journalists and academics with repeated and incessant promotion in all forms of “media” including books and multitude of “Prizes” remembering the people who they want to fool never grew up from the time of kindergarten always craving for “prizes” and recognition.
All that is required in Burma is for the general populace to know exactly what is going on- eg. all the 88’sand all are in the pocket of their “donors” just about all of whom can be traced back to the CIA affiliated organizations- and to have self contemplation to know exactly what they want- opulence- for what price- loss of family structure, religion, tradition and all of safe and pleasant environment to be replaced by poisonous ruins- again Detroit.
Dear Hang
I am not sure which century or which country you are looking at. In no parliament in Indonesia’s history and certainly not during the past 20 years has there ever been an over-representation of the religious majority (Muslims).
What kind of a country could be called an “autocracy” when during the past 15 years there have been Presidents coming from 4 different parties?
In the lower House of the Indonesian Parliament there are 17% women (only 11% in the Lok Sabha) while in Indonesia’s upper house there are 26% women (12% in the Raj Sabha). All MPs in Indonesia are elected by the voters. here are no appointed MPs.
Throughout its history, many Commanders of the Armed Forces and the various services within the military, Coordinating Ministers and other ministers, Central Bank Governors, Managing Directors of State Owned Enterprises and untold governors and other local leaders have been from religious and ethnic minorities.
There has never been a Cabinet in all of Indonesian history that has been all Muslim.
In the current Cabinet of 34 members, some 7 are from Religious Minorities including 2 Sino-Indonesians.
Kindly update your prejudiced views.
“religion did not factor significantly in the Indonesian elections this year.”
Given that Jokowi faced massive smear campaign depicting him as not Muslim enough (or as a Chinese, a closet Christian), which prompted him and his campaign team to try to highlight his Islamic credential, it wouldn’t be accurate to say that “religion” did not matter in the presidential election. There are many other indicators that suggest religion played a role in the election: such as Prabowo-Hatta’s “coalition of Islamic parties”, attempts to frame Jokowi/PDIP as PKI due to their secular nationalist platform, and the role of pesantren during the campaign period…etc.
I guess the problem has to do with your conflation of religion and political Islam; whilst the former remains an important factor in Indonesian politics in my view, the latter has become somewhat discredited and lost its salience as many analysts have pointed out (on this site as well).
The writer does not know enough about Indonesia, and I find it surprising they got a film director to write such a piece. The Indonesian correspondent for The Hindu was written a much more informative article about the differences between the two.elections.
The author didn’t highlight the main differences between India and Indonesia. The big mistake is focusing on the two individuals, its understandable, but wrong. Jokowi does not seem himself as a singular defining leader, but as a vanguard for the subsequent local leaders that will shape and eventually dominate Indonesian politics for the next 20-30 years. Indonesia was able to produce a Jokowi after just 16 years, because of decentralization. Indonesians can directly elect regent chiefs, mayors and governors. This has allowed middle class people like Jokowi and Ahok to become local leaders with a very small campaign chest. In India, in most states, district chiefs and mayors are chosen by the state parliament, not directly elected. You have to have a lot resources to run for Chief Minister of a State in India.
The second aspect is Indonesia is more centralized and uniform than Indonesia than India. Almost everyone speaks Indonesia. The media The media is centered around Jakarta. Third is the settlement pattern of Indonesia. Indonesia has many more multicultural cities and regions than India. Outside of Bangalore, Dehli and Bombay much of India is mono cultural, one ethnic group dominates. In Bombay the city government has been dominated by Shiv Sena. In contrast, Indonesians cities are much more multicultural, to the extant that the original inhabitants aren’t the majority. When Jokowi became Governor, he didn’t even have a Jakarta Identity Card.. Would the Mayor Of Chicago try to run for Mayor of NYC?
The author like many analyst who point out to Jokowi’s face greater opposition than Modi in Parliament, divisions within his own party, forget two things about Indonesia. Modi faces his own problems, mainly that India is explicitly a Federal Republic, while Indonesia on paper is still unitary Meaning the central government in Indonesia has a lot more powers than in India. Secondly, the Indonesian Presidency is a lot more powerful than the US Presidency. SBY was able to accomplish a lot more in his first term than in his second term, despite a smaller coalition.
Another thing is Jokowi from the start has been very clear, unlike Modi, where the money is most likely going to come from for all his spending plans. Removal of the fuel subsidies, and he out going President, SBY is already increasing fuel prices. Modi never really mentioned if he was going to tackle India’s much large subsidies
About the whole education aspect, South India did not vote for Modi, less because of education, but because of they feared Hindi chauvinism and being the more prosperous parts of India, wondered what is so special of Gujarat. The other reason is Southern India is much more religious diverse than Northern India. Secondly, interestingly enough Jokowi won heavily among the less educated and poor, and among minorities. In fact Jokowi didn’t even the majority of Muslim votes in Indonesia.
Many people from English speaking countries look at Indonesia from a right vs left in economic terms. Indonesians don’t think like that. Jokowi was more explicitly more right wing on economic policy than Prabowo, that is why foreign investors endorse him. And Indonesia as a country is much more right wing economically than India is.
It is time for Sarawak rakyat to make a stand for Sarawak to Gain Independence. Getting out of Malaysia is the best option and the one and only option. Malaysia itself is a vulgar language which I do not wish to be associated with. I hate it when people said that I am Malaysian when I am Sarawakian.
As I have pointed out on this website before, Jokowi is also backed by ‘wealthy ex-army general’ Luhut Binsar Panjaitan, plus a stable of Megawati’s favourite TNI officers, such as Hendropriyono, Sutiyoso and Ryamizard Ryacudu. Whether, taken together, their fortunes match that of Prabowo and Hashim or not, I don’t know. But let’s not pretend that Jokowi’s election was financed entirely by kampung donations.
It is odd that the author didn’t mention the man who could be considered Jokowi’s counterpart in India, Arvind Kejriwaal, who was chief minister of New Delhi, thus an exact counterpart to Jokowi, for some time before resigning. His common man’s approach bears comparisons with Jokowi’s, though Jokowi had a stronger base. Kejriwal’s Aam Aadmi (‘Common Man’) party was pretty unsuccessful, and of course he was defeated by Modi in Varanasi. Kejriwal was a critic of some of India’s richest businessmen, such as Ambani and Adani. By contrast, Jokowi is not a critic of Indonesia’s richest businessmen, despite contesting the presidency at a time of rapidly growing inequality in his homeland.
This author apparently believes that Megawati ‘didn’t ride for free on her father’s legacy’. This may be passably accurate if a comparison with Rahul Gandhi, great-grandson of Nehru, is intended, but she has failed so often that she should have been dumped years ago.
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A tale of two elections
To your point Modi actually swept some of the most educated areas – the cities Bangalore, Delhi and Mumbai. I was looking at trends across the country that would explain the overall high numbers for the BJP. Probowo got many votes from the educated urban elite.The well educated % in both countries is still low. A lot really depends on the votes that come in from the huge number of people with basic literacy. I think it would be worth a specialists time to do a large n study on this.
President Jokowi: ten years too soon?
“President Jokowi: ten years too soon” ?
YES, but better sooner than Prabowo.
Sarawak’s “Independence Day”
“…Its pretty sad that even Greg Lopz cannot se that the solid vote for the Taib and his successr are strong endorsement of the Peninsular led BN coalition….”
This is an interesting observation forrestcat.
Is it true that a “solid vote” for the Sarawak based parties in Sarawak (I believe only MCA is a national party that has some representation in Sarawak as none of the other Peninsular based parties are represented in Sarawak) who are part of the BN, a vote for BN as a whole including UMNO?
A tale of two elections
How rich is Luhut Binsar Panjaitan, he is definitely no scion of the Tata group. For all Jokowi association with military generals, how that compare with Modi close association and active participation in chauvinist Hindu organizations. Its the equivalent of having some who was an ex-member of FPI as President. The BJP has members of Sri Rama Sena in their ranks, that is the Gerindra allow the FPI to join its ranks. Even Gerindra won’t allow FPI members to become Gerindra members. Despite what you say about Gerindra, they keep their paramilitary thugs at greater distance than the BJP does.
Arvind Kejriwaal is not PM, and his is not even Chief Minister of Delhi,he quit after 6 weeks. I can criticize rich people, but how does that improve the livelihood of the poor? But if Jokowi was to start criticizing the rich, people would be calling him out for being anti-Chinese.
A tale of two elections
India is the great country on earth. I bow before the magnificence of Indian democracy. Despite all your talk about the religious tolerance of India, the fact is your beloved India, has instituted anti-conversion laws in some states. In fact the current PM, instituted such laws in Gujarat. I thought they had religious freedom in India. As for persecution of Shia and Ahmadiyah, how many low caste men have been burned to a crisp in the cow belt for defending their women against rape by higher caste men. Anti-Caste violence in India has with far grater frequency than persecution of religious minorities in Indonesia, but since its accepted, the West does not complain. Why didn’t the Federal Government in India do anything about it?
As for Indonesia being an Islamic nation, for much of its history, when it wasn’t a democracy, Muslim were actually persecuted and their religious freedoms curbed in the name of secularism. Muslims women were allowed to wear head coverings in state institutions whether schools or universities. And even in Islamic schools. Would India ban the Sikhs from wearing the Kirpa or laws concerning protection of cattle (beef) in its Constitution. Why just cattle, why not chicken, pigs or goats etc.
From a blunt legal assessment of the Indonesian vs Indian Constitution, the Indian one is far more riddle with “Hinduism” than the Indonesian one with respect or Islam.
Indonesia is a military dictatorship, you are correct, so it should be held to a lower standard than India, a democracy. India elected an PM who was most likely involved in abetting the slaughter of thousands of Muslims. What a tolerant society, I want to move there right now.
As for your Catholic Hindoo convert who leads the a major party in India, would she have become that PM had she not been the wife of one Indian PM and the daughter law of another. India has been ruled by Gandhi-Nehru for 46 out of 67 years, and total of 56 years for the Congress as a whole total. Indonesia has been ruled by the Sukarno family for 19 out of 65 years. 32 Years by Suharto, 14 years by others. Which one would you a military dictatorship or feudal-democracy where one family has more or less ruled the country for most of its history.
BY the way Chinese Indonesians can form their own parties. So can Catholics, Christians. The problem is you don’t know enough about Indonesian politics to realize that such parties do exist. The problem is they don’t get enough votes.
WaAllahu’alam …, Kassim Ahmad
Great write-up. As a big fan of Kassim Ahmad I hope one day more Malays/Muslims consider fairly his ideas. truly a giant of the Malay intellectual world. But i guess like most greats, his ideas will only be appreciated when he’s gone.
A tale of two elections
I am in agreement with your observation. Indeed, this election saw far more activity along religious lines compared to 2009. I was making a comparison with India where the BJP strongly identified with religion and that led to an electoral points surge – more so than here. But yes, religion and political Islam perhaps ought not to be conflated.
A tale of two elections
You have a funky understanding of what autocracy means
Cambridge Dictionary defines autocracy as: government by a single person or small group that has unlimited power or authority, or the power or authority of such a person or group
I am not sure about you but that sounds nothing like Indonesia to me.
A tale of two elections
An interesting comparison — and one that I expect will continue to receive critical attention.
Still, some of the analysis seemed shallow. One point that, in particular, bothered me was the implication that Indonesia and India’s different electoral outcomes could be explained by differences in literacy rates. There may be some truth to this, but it is a big claim and thus requires greater evidence than the author provides. Without such evidence, it sounds as though the author is saying that only uneducated voters voted for Modi/Prabowo and only smarter, better educated voters voted for Jokowi. This is an overly-simplified narrative that doesn’t advance this interesting comparison.
A tale of two elections
Mr Evans,
Your comments are funny. You find the rare unimportant exceptions to prove my very point about India. NO, Indonesia is not a working Democracy, yet. India has been for about 65 years. Please don’t waste time with prevarications and obvious dissembling.
India is far more diverse politically than Indonesia. Your rather meagre examples are
useless. Indonesia has not had a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu (purely Hindu), Taoist or Marxist President, and will not, for many years to come. The mere fact that there are several legal Communist Parties in India, and the mere mention of Communism in Indonesia will get strong whispers, at best. Don’t even attempt to compare the open ideological system in India with Indonesia. Go ahead, start a new Communist Party with the logo of Soekarno. Good luck with that.
Your barely-relevant examples compare in no way to India. Call me when one of the major parties in Indonesia is headed by an Italian born convert to Islam, who is fluent in Bahasa Indonesia, and is one of the most prominent politicians in Jakarta and is accepted as a genuine Indonesian. Call me when there is a Parliament in Indonesia, totally devoid of military people. Already Prabowo supporters are trying to make Jokowi sound like he is the hands of the military
(which I don’t believe). They did that during the elections. Indian elections aren’t perfect but, then candidates don’t accuse each other of being proxies for the Indian Army. Indian Parties do not squabble over military connections, period. Call me when Indonesia has a two-star JEWISH General that led one of the most important campaigns in Indonesian history. You will be lucky if the Jewish man isn’t run out of town as a “Zionist Conspirator”, something no Jew in India was ever accused of. I urge you to read about General Jacob and his role in the various Indian military campaigns. Every Indian, including former Muslim Presidents of India, have honoured General Jacob. Please don’t make me out to be a fool and tell me such things happen in Indonesia, when they don’t. Yeah, how many Hindu, Chinese and Catholic Generals in Indonesia now ?
I didn’t hear you. And, yes, Benny Moerdani is no longer with us, that doesn’t count.
You do not know what nation you are talking about, let alone what century we are living in. Unless you have been in Indonesia and India for a total of 40 years, which it is clear, you have not, spare me your attempts at political revisionism of Indonesia into something it is not. Indonesia is an Islamic nation, with minorities. India is a Democracy that is 15 % Muslim, as well as having Parsees, Christians, Jains, Jews, Buddhists and others. And for at least two of these (Parsees and Jews), don’t even dare to tell me that in Indonesia they would be treated more tolerantly, than in India, where they have lived, completely free, for several thousand years, while Shi’ites and Ahamdiyas
are regularly persecuted in Indonesia. Wow, 2 Sino-Indonesia !! I have news Mr Evans, in autocratic Malaysia, Chinese even are allowed to have their own parties, as are Indians. Spare me any more lectures, bone up on Indonesia and India, as you are most bereft of knowledge, of either nation.
Myanmar as middle power
Sir, it is Peace Process that shall be prioritized in Burma / Myanmar as today on 9 August during John Kerry, US State Secretary visit. Unless President U Thein Sein and Ethnic Armed Organization’s leaders signed and honored the Peace Agreement, a call for Burma’s middle power in Southeast Asia is premature. After 65 years of armed conflict, and broken social, political and economic system, and Burma is behind Vietnam, it is a super task that our leaders have to be ready for a new leadership. In post 2015 General election, Burma will be in a new political climate. After 26 years of post democracy campaign led by students, monks and ordinary citizens, Burma may not reached its own unity within unless national reconciliation is achieved. The current government is totally dominated ex-military officers. Civilian MPs have little influence to the policy makers. Most MPs have been calling through local Burmese media that they are not fully informed the policy of government in many fronts. It is too early to call a middle power unless peace agreement is honored and a united national – federal government system is formed. However, Burma’s leaders from all sides must find the balance act for common national interest.
Sectarian conflict in Mandalay
State Monks’ Council (aka) State Sasana Council is formed in late 1950s after Burma gained independent. Ministry of Religious Affairs is also created in later year. After 65 years of its function, the teaching of Buddha’s literature has been revived and delivered systematically. Burma’s national leaders have been inherited the ‘norm and value’ of Buddha’s teaching. However, separation of ‘State and Religions’ have never been properly discussed among national leaders and legislators. Perhaps, this is the time that the current parliament and the legislators could looking at core issues on separation of ‘State and Religion’ like other democratic and diverse faith based communities in Burma. I also have formed the views that Burma shall be creating a multicultural society under the norm of rule of laws and access to equality. However, it may take 20-30 years for a newly formed government’s public policy makers. Burmese nationalism is the core ingredient on this conflict but we have to form a balance views on ‘good and evil’ act of individual rather than blaming the whole nation.
Sarawak’s “Independence Day”
joseph is nota sarawakian name, its an alien name to sarawak.
Where are the abangs and Antanoms.
Angliphile and i migrant chinese do not represent sarawakian voice.
Its pretty sad that even Greg Lopz cannot se that the solid vote for the Taib and his successr are strong endorsement of the Peninsular led BN coalition.
Sarawak interethnic relations is not as rosy as it seem, even with the natives and immigramt chinese going to chirch, both compete for the states political and economic resources. Local political parties in Sarawak are also based along etnic lines.
If Sarawak gain indepedence, the question whether the chinese, iban or malanau should rule will also add complexity to such a situation.
Review of State and Uncivil Society in Thailand
Come on, MM. Lighten up. Doesn’t it strike you that Srithanonchai may not be criticizing his erstwhile colleague Puangthong as much as giving vent to envy of the professional success of his compatriot Grabowsky?
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
“….clear blue water ..”
Unfortunately it is mirage.
Starting from public domain events- Thamada Gyi is so trust-able,let’s say nothing about the Pipe, let the Chinese have a free hand in the Miandan Land as they own it, Kalars are a threat to the humanity all around the world -therefore they deserve to be tortured and starve to die horribly let alone treated any decent way, etc. etc. There is not a single thing this woman have done for the country – there was ans are opportunities.
Popularity is a fickle thing. Yes, it can be used to steer the people to shepherd anyway one wants- as we will now see in Indonesia.
But this sedate, orderly fantasy of these “elections” and “democracy” and “civil organizations” BS have so far led the country to the most violent, lawless and immoral state already and it will simply get worse. To quote that champion of the “oppressed” Christine Lagarde, this elections and all that BS is simply like arguing about the color of bathing suit while a tsunami is coming along.
America though has been ruled by anonymous people most likely related to that Milner-Rhodes invented and successfully perpetuated Round Table crowd and Rockefeller-Morgan-Rothschild group for so long- at the least since the time of that Princeton Professor Wilson-, they would believe any choice -like Big Mac or Chicken Nugget or Pepsi or Coke- as DEEEmocracy.
Alternative to Aung San Suu Kyi! Now that is definitely uncalled for. All these demagogues have been thorough instruments of oppression by other means by people who made them- currently Jokowi is one new offspring- Aung San Suu Kyi, Mandela, Dalai Lama, Havel,etc. Clue is the “Idol” produced from nowhere by “Celebrities”, politicians, journalists and academics with repeated and incessant promotion in all forms of “media” including books and multitude of “Prizes” remembering the people who they want to fool never grew up from the time of kindergarten always craving for “prizes” and recognition.
All that is required in Burma is for the general populace to know exactly what is going on- eg. all the 88’sand all are in the pocket of their “donors” just about all of whom can be traced back to the CIA affiliated organizations- and to have self contemplation to know exactly what they want- opulence- for what price- loss of family structure, religion, tradition and all of safe and pleasant environment to be replaced by poisonous ruins- again Detroit.
A tale of two elections
Dear Hang
I am not sure which century or which country you are looking at. In no parliament in Indonesia’s history and certainly not during the past 20 years has there ever been an over-representation of the religious majority (Muslims).
What kind of a country could be called an “autocracy” when during the past 15 years there have been Presidents coming from 4 different parties?
In the lower House of the Indonesian Parliament there are 17% women (only 11% in the Lok Sabha) while in Indonesia’s upper house there are 26% women (12% in the Raj Sabha). All MPs in Indonesia are elected by the voters. here are no appointed MPs.
Throughout its history, many Commanders of the Armed Forces and the various services within the military, Coordinating Ministers and other ministers, Central Bank Governors, Managing Directors of State Owned Enterprises and untold governors and other local leaders have been from religious and ethnic minorities.
There has never been a Cabinet in all of Indonesian history that has been all Muslim.
In the current Cabinet of 34 members, some 7 are from Religious Minorities including 2 Sino-Indonesians.
Kindly update your prejudiced views.
A tale of two elections
“religion did not factor significantly in the Indonesian elections this year.”
Given that Jokowi faced massive smear campaign depicting him as not Muslim enough (or as a Chinese, a closet Christian), which prompted him and his campaign team to try to highlight his Islamic credential, it wouldn’t be accurate to say that “religion” did not matter in the presidential election. There are many other indicators that suggest religion played a role in the election: such as Prabowo-Hatta’s “coalition of Islamic parties”, attempts to frame Jokowi/PDIP as PKI due to their secular nationalist platform, and the role of pesantren during the campaign period…etc.
I guess the problem has to do with your conflation of religion and political Islam; whilst the former remains an important factor in Indonesian politics in my view, the latter has become somewhat discredited and lost its salience as many analysts have pointed out (on this site as well).
A tale of two elections
The writer does not know enough about Indonesia, and I find it surprising they got a film director to write such a piece. The Indonesian correspondent for The Hindu was written a much more informative article about the differences between the two.elections.
The author didn’t highlight the main differences between India and Indonesia. The big mistake is focusing on the two individuals, its understandable, but wrong. Jokowi does not seem himself as a singular defining leader, but as a vanguard for the subsequent local leaders that will shape and eventually dominate Indonesian politics for the next 20-30 years. Indonesia was able to produce a Jokowi after just 16 years, because of decentralization. Indonesians can directly elect regent chiefs, mayors and governors. This has allowed middle class people like Jokowi and Ahok to become local leaders with a very small campaign chest. In India, in most states, district chiefs and mayors are chosen by the state parliament, not directly elected. You have to have a lot resources to run for Chief Minister of a State in India.
The second aspect is Indonesia is more centralized and uniform than Indonesia than India. Almost everyone speaks Indonesia. The media The media is centered around Jakarta. Third is the settlement pattern of Indonesia. Indonesia has many more multicultural cities and regions than India. Outside of Bangalore, Dehli and Bombay much of India is mono cultural, one ethnic group dominates. In Bombay the city government has been dominated by Shiv Sena. In contrast, Indonesians cities are much more multicultural, to the extant that the original inhabitants aren’t the majority. When Jokowi became Governor, he didn’t even have a Jakarta Identity Card.. Would the Mayor Of Chicago try to run for Mayor of NYC?
The author like many analyst who point out to Jokowi’s face greater opposition than Modi in Parliament, divisions within his own party, forget two things about Indonesia. Modi faces his own problems, mainly that India is explicitly a Federal Republic, while Indonesia on paper is still unitary Meaning the central government in Indonesia has a lot more powers than in India. Secondly, the Indonesian Presidency is a lot more powerful than the US Presidency. SBY was able to accomplish a lot more in his first term than in his second term, despite a smaller coalition.
Another thing is Jokowi from the start has been very clear, unlike Modi, where the money is most likely going to come from for all his spending plans. Removal of the fuel subsidies, and he out going President, SBY is already increasing fuel prices. Modi never really mentioned if he was going to tackle India’s much large subsidies
About the whole education aspect, South India did not vote for Modi, less because of education, but because of they feared Hindi chauvinism and being the more prosperous parts of India, wondered what is so special of Gujarat. The other reason is Southern India is much more religious diverse than Northern India. Secondly, interestingly enough Jokowi won heavily among the less educated and poor, and among minorities. In fact Jokowi didn’t even the majority of Muslim votes in Indonesia.
Many people from English speaking countries look at Indonesia from a right vs left in economic terms. Indonesians don’t think like that. Jokowi was more explicitly more right wing on economic policy than Prabowo, that is why foreign investors endorse him. And Indonesia as a country is much more right wing economically than India is.
Sarawak’s “Independence Day”
It is time for Sarawak rakyat to make a stand for Sarawak to Gain Independence. Getting out of Malaysia is the best option and the one and only option. Malaysia itself is a vulgar language which I do not wish to be associated with. I hate it when people said that I am Malaysian when I am Sarawakian.
A tale of two elections
As I have pointed out on this website before, Jokowi is also backed by ‘wealthy ex-army general’ Luhut Binsar Panjaitan, plus a stable of Megawati’s favourite TNI officers, such as Hendropriyono, Sutiyoso and Ryamizard Ryacudu. Whether, taken together, their fortunes match that of Prabowo and Hashim or not, I don’t know. But let’s not pretend that Jokowi’s election was financed entirely by kampung donations.
It is odd that the author didn’t mention the man who could be considered Jokowi’s counterpart in India, Arvind Kejriwaal, who was chief minister of New Delhi, thus an exact counterpart to Jokowi, for some time before resigning. His common man’s approach bears comparisons with Jokowi’s, though Jokowi had a stronger base. Kejriwal’s Aam Aadmi (‘Common Man’) party was pretty unsuccessful, and of course he was defeated by Modi in Varanasi. Kejriwal was a critic of some of India’s richest businessmen, such as Ambani and Adani. By contrast, Jokowi is not a critic of Indonesia’s richest businessmen, despite contesting the presidency at a time of rapidly growing inequality in his homeland.
This author apparently believes that Megawati ‘didn’t ride for free on her father’s legacy’. This may be passably accurate if a comparison with Rahul Gandhi, great-grandson of Nehru, is intended, but she has failed so often that she should have been dumped years ago.