It is refreshing to get some facts and names to connect to the events. I really appreciate this information. Most of the press, like Bangkok Post is extremely careful about reporting something like this.
Can we hope for a similar summary of the civilians involved? The Shinawatras get flogged on a daily basis, but what are the roles of the other family dynasties in this? (CP and Chiratiwat for instance).
Cliff Sloane says he “holds Chalerm in a lot of contempt as a known accessory to murder protecting his son Duang. He is a known quantity as a cruel thug who deserves any evidence backed accusations.”
And yet says there is ‘no logical sense’ to the suspicion that Chalerm, while CAPO Chief, was himself directing the nearly daily M79 grenade and machine gun attacks against the peaceful anti-Thaksin protesters.
This article is well researched, but there are some places distorted. It has been tradition that The royal Thai Army’s infantry units are attached with the word р╕г.р╕н. e.g. р╕Юр╕е. 1 р╕г.р╕н. (First Regiment-King’s Guards) р╕Юр╕е. 9 р╕г.р╕н. (Ninth Infantry Regiment-King’s Guard). That tradition also applies to some units in the Royal Thai Marine Corps. For that reason, Seri Thai intentionally distorts the given information that the top brass under the King’s guard staged the coup d’etat with King Bhumipol’s support.
“First we must understand that Army Commander Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha was reluctant to carry out this coup though he was pressured to do so by Privy Council Chair ret. Gen Prem Tinsulanonda and others.”
Yeah. That’s a bald assertion. I have no doubt about the pressure and its origin … but I doubt the reluctance.
“Prem and his deputy ret. Gen. Surayud Chulanond stand as a nexus between Prayuth and the palace.”
That’s an assertion as well. Although I imagine it’s true. Someone had to arrange for the very questionable exchange of ‘letters’ blessing the coup, and that called for a real inside connection. Batman and Robin fill the bill.
Pkk, although camps, invasions and election blockages indeed made life difficult, I do not think these things happened simply because Suthep side was “protected by the military.” Mostly, I think the military protects the military above all.
Remember, similar things happened in 2009 and 2010, making life difficult for the Abhisit government for an even longer period of time before the military intervened. Maybe there are both “taeng mo” and “yellow shirt” soldiers that make it difficult for army to act. The police, supposed by some to be on the side of the Yingluck government, also did little to stop the illegal actions led by Suthep.
The Pheua Thai amnesty move cut Pheua Thai off from whole heart support by Red Shirt base and allowed Suthep to launch protests with big support.
Both sides used narrow legalism to fight their case instead of finding common ground (actually on a policy level there seems to be a lot of agreement). Prime Minister Yingluck, knowing Constitution Court was not on her side, seemed afraid to do anything decisive in the crisis — whether to offer real reform or to arrest the protest leaders. Her decision to dissolve Parliament actually helped her opponents stay stubborn. Despite the example of the 2006 nullified elections, she walked into the trap of a caretaker government and no new Parliament. That put her party at the mercy of an unsympathetic election commission well aware of the fate of the predecessors (Commissioners sent to prison) and left her government unable to raise the money to pay farmers. Having angry farmers on their side encouraged Suthep to dig in heels. Actually, neither side seemed interested in discussions to find compromises that maybe have averted a coup. Since both sides used fiery rhetoric and distorted, one-sided information to whip up emotions, niether side could be seen as backing down to the hated other side. Buddhism teaches us that failure to control emotions, attachments and “kilej” leads to suffering. In the long term (maybe already) I suspect politicians on both sides will find reason to regret the return of army to political power. Perhaps political leaders should suffer: they have mostly themselves to blame. Unfortunately, many others suffer too.
1. “First we must understand that Army Commander Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha was reluctant to carry out this coup though he was pressured to do so by Privy Council Chair ret. Gen Prem Tinsulanonda and others.”
This stands as an unproven claim which the writer doesn’t support even by selective quotes, but simply goes straight on to imply direction by the monarchy:
2. “Prem and his deputy ret. Gen. Surayud Chulanond stand as a nexus between Prayuth and the palace.”
3. Inductive logic is no substitute for reasoned analysis of the facts i.e. deductive logic.
4. You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes, but it would help the effort to generate less heat and more light – which IMO is why there was a coup in the first place.
“Why did the politicians not resolve their conflict for 6 months making life difficult for everyone?”
Simply because one side was protected by the military and let free to install camps in the streets, invade ministries, and block elections. That made life difficult actually.
Thank you for speaking out.I also would like to see condemnation of some academics who sold their souls to the devil to support Thailand absolute monarchy in the disguise of Democracy with the king as head of the state. These academics twist truth tell lies to suit their purposes.They should be banned from entering any free speech countries.
Khun Vichai, I hold Chalerm in a lot of contempt as a known accessory to murder protecting his son Duang. He is a known quantity as a cruel thug who deserves any evidence backed accusations. But the one you level at him makes no logical sense. He only acts to shore up his investments and shield his gangster family from the law (ironic for a cop, eh?). There are a lot of suspects in the grenade attacks, and all at a far lower level than the mobster Chalerm.
After the coup everybody seems to have forgotten the CAPO Chief Chalerm Yubamrung. Is he rotting in jail still?
It is prevailing suspicion in Bangkok that the nearly M79 grenade and assault rifle attacks against the very very peaceful Kamnan crowd were being directed by Chalerm Y. For really ‘dirty deeds’, ‘Thaksin thinks, Chalerm Y. dutifully acts’.
It is worth repeating that Privy Council Chair Prem Tinsulanond had his fingers deep into the 2006 coup, and that US Ambassador Boyce was a good friend of Prem’s and more or less endorsed the coup against Thaksin, as has been revealed by the Wikileaks documents on the matter from the US State Department.
We don’t know yet the level of involvement of Prem in the 2014 coup, although it can be inferred that General Prayuth had his blessing on the matter. From my reading of the increasingly strident statements from the US State Department, US Embassy Bangkok, and US Defense Department against the coup, and the cancelation of all joint military exercises between the US military and the RTA, I would say that the US government was not consulted ahead of time for its blessing of this coup. Or if it was, Prayuth didn’t like the answer he got.
How do you define “even at the last minute”? The last minute seems to me to have been defined exclusively by Prayuth, because it seems the participants in the negotiations were willing to keep on going, and they had only talked for 5 hours before the coup d’etat was declared.
Furthermore, I would also say that the Army has also been more than successful at making life difficult for everyone, and they are promising to do so for at least 15 more months. I miss my BBC and CNN, and before the coup I never was in fear of being summarily detained/arrested without due process or bail for merely expressing my views on free speech (and against Article 112) on Facebook. In contrast, right now I think I have a quite palpable fear of having the powers that be mess with my life, as do most academics I know.
I liked the 2006 coup a lot more than this one, because we were left alone, but this time they are being a lot more repressive in their threats to come after everybody who doesn’t think like they do!
All this is information is repetitive and available elsewhere but it does not say why did the coup happen? Was there any other alternative available? If yes, what was it?
Why did the politicians not resolve their conflict for 6 months making life difficult for everyone?
Even at the last minute, they did not want to compromise, resolve the conflict and take the country forward.
The passage from Naeo Na you refer to as ‘people showing support for the junta’ – should read, following the Thai, – a group of provincial bureaucrats (р╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ир╕▒р╕Зр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Фр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Ж) showing support for the junta’ – Big deal! You do what your boss tells you to do. Although maybe they were worried if the Suthep crowd kept up all those ‘office invasions’ it could result in their pay being docked for being unable to work.
Midst the debate over Peter Carey and Sang Patriot, Dr Carey’s outstanding intellectual and humanitarian achievements should not be forgotten. His scholarly contributions on Indonesia, East Timor etc are on the record for all to see and judge. Not so well known, perhaps, are his pioneering and institution-building contributions to those disabled by war and other factors in Cambodia, but also in East Timor and Indonesia. Many feel a huge debt to him. He is a person of remarkable talent and heart.
Chaba: wanna go out to hold signs cheering soldiers again today?
Chaba: same rate 1000 bht
Arn: of course, always ready, sure
Chaba: same way as (you all did) yesterday at the “dem” monument.
Chaba: real cash, same pay
Chaba: pick up signs from me, same place
Arn: will do
Chaba: will let those boys know you’re coming.
Arn: my team is ready, always, he he
Chaba: if your face appeared on the news, that’s extra.
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NTEU condemns Thai coup
[…] Original Source […]
A lesson for researchers
“although I know that honorifics are not high on your agenda in your parts.”
What a classy line.
What is me Laird implying?
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
It is refreshing to get some facts and names to connect to the events. I really appreciate this information. Most of the press, like Bangkok Post is extremely careful about reporting something like this.
Can we hope for a similar summary of the civilians involved? The Shinawatras get flogged on a daily basis, but what are the roles of the other family dynasties in this? (CP and Chiratiwat for instance).
After the coup
Cliff Sloane says he “holds Chalerm in a lot of contempt as a known accessory to murder protecting his son Duang. He is a known quantity as a cruel thug who deserves any evidence backed accusations.”
And yet says there is ‘no logical sense’ to the suspicion that Chalerm, while CAPO Chief, was himself directing the nearly daily M79 grenade and machine gun attacks against the peaceful anti-Thaksin protesters.
Silly!
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
This article is well researched, but there are some places distorted. It has been tradition that The royal Thai Army’s infantry units are attached with the word р╕г.р╕н. e.g. р╕Юр╕е. 1 р╕г.р╕н. (First Regiment-King’s Guards) р╕Юр╕е. 9 р╕г.р╕н. (Ninth Infantry Regiment-King’s Guard). That tradition also applies to some units in the Royal Thai Marine Corps. For that reason, Seri Thai intentionally distorts the given information that the top brass under the King’s guard staged the coup d’etat with King Bhumipol’s support.
Promiscuity into promise?
In Germany’ parliamentary system the budgetary commission is always chaired by the opposition and not by a government coalition party.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
“First we must understand that Army Commander Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha was reluctant to carry out this coup though he was pressured to do so by Privy Council Chair ret. Gen Prem Tinsulanonda and others.”
Yeah. That’s a bald assertion. I have no doubt about the pressure and its origin … but I doubt the reluctance.
“Prem and his deputy ret. Gen. Surayud Chulanond stand as a nexus between Prayuth and the palace.”
That’s an assertion as well. Although I imagine it’s true. Someone had to arrange for the very questionable exchange of ‘letters’ blessing the coup, and that called for a real inside connection. Batman and Robin fill the bill.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
Pkk, although camps, invasions and election blockages indeed made life difficult, I do not think these things happened simply because Suthep side was “protected by the military.” Mostly, I think the military protects the military above all.
Remember, similar things happened in 2009 and 2010, making life difficult for the Abhisit government for an even longer period of time before the military intervened. Maybe there are both “taeng mo” and “yellow shirt” soldiers that make it difficult for army to act. The police, supposed by some to be on the side of the Yingluck government, also did little to stop the illegal actions led by Suthep.
The Pheua Thai amnesty move cut Pheua Thai off from whole heart support by Red Shirt base and allowed Suthep to launch protests with big support.
Both sides used narrow legalism to fight their case instead of finding common ground (actually on a policy level there seems to be a lot of agreement). Prime Minister Yingluck, knowing Constitution Court was not on her side, seemed afraid to do anything decisive in the crisis — whether to offer real reform or to arrest the protest leaders. Her decision to dissolve Parliament actually helped her opponents stay stubborn. Despite the example of the 2006 nullified elections, she walked into the trap of a caretaker government and no new Parliament. That put her party at the mercy of an unsympathetic election commission well aware of the fate of the predecessors (Commissioners sent to prison) and left her government unable to raise the money to pay farmers. Having angry farmers on their side encouraged Suthep to dig in heels. Actually, neither side seemed interested in discussions to find compromises that maybe have averted a coup. Since both sides used fiery rhetoric and distorted, one-sided information to whip up emotions, niether side could be seen as backing down to the hated other side. Buddhism teaches us that failure to control emotions, attachments and “kilej” leads to suffering. In the long term (maybe already) I suspect politicians on both sides will find reason to regret the return of army to political power. Perhaps political leaders should suffer: they have mostly themselves to blame. Unfortunately, many others suffer too.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
1. “First we must understand that Army Commander Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha was reluctant to carry out this coup though he was pressured to do so by Privy Council Chair ret. Gen Prem Tinsulanonda and others.”
This stands as an unproven claim which the writer doesn’t support even by selective quotes, but simply goes straight on to imply direction by the monarchy:
2. “Prem and his deputy ret. Gen. Surayud Chulanond stand as a nexus between Prayuth and the palace.”
3. Inductive logic is no substitute for reasoned analysis of the facts i.e. deductive logic.
4. You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes, but it would help the effort to generate less heat and more light – which IMO is why there was a coup in the first place.
Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
[…] Text wurde erstmalig am 28.05.2014 auf Englisch auf der Website New Mandala veröffentlicht. Deutsche ├Ьbersetzung und Redaktion von […]
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
“Why did the politicians not resolve their conflict for 6 months making life difficult for everyone?”
Simply because one side was protected by the military and let free to install camps in the streets, invade ministries, and block elections. That made life difficult actually.
Jokowi the party man
Of course..this kinda superficial campaign worked well in this country. but how many intelligent people can actually believe it ?
NTEU condemns Thai coup
Thank you for speaking out.I also would like to see condemnation of some academics who sold their souls to the devil to support Thailand absolute monarchy in the disguise of Democracy with the king as head of the state. These academics twist truth tell lies to suit their purposes.They should be banned from entering any free speech countries.
ith
After the coup
Khun Vichai, I hold Chalerm in a lot of contempt as a known accessory to murder protecting his son Duang. He is a known quantity as a cruel thug who deserves any evidence backed accusations. But the one you level at him makes no logical sense. He only acts to shore up his investments and shield his gangster family from the law (ironic for a cop, eh?). There are a lot of suspects in the grenade attacks, and all at a far lower level than the mobster Chalerm.
After the coup
After the coup everybody seems to have forgotten the CAPO Chief Chalerm Yubamrung. Is he rotting in jail still?
It is prevailing suspicion in Bangkok that the nearly M79 grenade and assault rifle attacks against the very very peaceful Kamnan crowd were being directed by Chalerm Y. For really ‘dirty deeds’, ‘Thaksin thinks, Chalerm Y. dutifully acts’.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
It is worth repeating that Privy Council Chair Prem Tinsulanond had his fingers deep into the 2006 coup, and that US Ambassador Boyce was a good friend of Prem’s and more or less endorsed the coup against Thaksin, as has been revealed by the Wikileaks documents on the matter from the US State Department.
We don’t know yet the level of involvement of Prem in the 2014 coup, although it can be inferred that General Prayuth had his blessing on the matter. From my reading of the increasingly strident statements from the US State Department, US Embassy Bangkok, and US Defense Department against the coup, and the cancelation of all joint military exercises between the US military and the RTA, I would say that the US government was not consulted ahead of time for its blessing of this coup. Or if it was, Prayuth didn’t like the answer he got.
How do you define “even at the last minute”? The last minute seems to me to have been defined exclusively by Prayuth, because it seems the participants in the negotiations were willing to keep on going, and they had only talked for 5 hours before the coup d’etat was declared.
Furthermore, I would also say that the Army has also been more than successful at making life difficult for everyone, and they are promising to do so for at least 15 more months. I miss my BBC and CNN, and before the coup I never was in fear of being summarily detained/arrested without due process or bail for merely expressing my views on free speech (and against Article 112) on Facebook. In contrast, right now I think I have a quite palpable fear of having the powers that be mess with my life, as do most academics I know.
I liked the 2006 coup a lot more than this one, because we were left alone, but this time they are being a lot more repressive in their threats to come after everybody who doesn’t think like they do!
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
All this is information is repetitive and available elsewhere but it does not say why did the coup happen? Was there any other alternative available? If yes, what was it?
Why did the politicians not resolve their conflict for 6 months making life difficult for everyone?
Even at the last minute, they did not want to compromise, resolve the conflict and take the country forward.
Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
Sattahibo
The passage from Naeo Na you refer to as ‘people showing support for the junta’ – should read, following the Thai, – a group of provincial bureaucrats (р╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ир╕▒р╕Зр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Фр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Ж) showing support for the junta’ – Big deal! You do what your boss tells you to do. Although maybe they were worried if the Suthep crowd kept up all those ‘office invasions’ it could result in their pay being docked for being unable to work.
A lesson for researchers
Midst the debate over Peter Carey and Sang Patriot, Dr Carey’s outstanding intellectual and humanitarian achievements should not be forgotten. His scholarly contributions on Indonesia, East Timor etc are on the record for all to see and judge. Not so well known, perhaps, are his pioneering and institution-building contributions to those disabled by war and other factors in Cambodia, but also in East Timor and Indonesia. Many feel a huge debt to him. He is a person of remarkable talent and heart.
Thailand: a “soft revolution” in a happy country
Translation
Chaba: wanna go out to hold signs cheering soldiers again today?
Chaba: same rate 1000 bht
Arn: of course, always ready, sure
Chaba: same way as (you all did) yesterday at the “dem” monument.
Chaba: real cash, same pay
Chaba: pick up signs from me, same place
Arn: will do
Chaba: will let those boys know you’re coming.
Arn: my team is ready, always, he he
Chaba: if your face appeared on the news, that’s extra.