As a native Lao speaker, I have never heard anybody use the term “Thai” to refer to non-Thai or non-Lao people.
Yes you can say, “Thai Krungthep”, “Thai Vientiane”, etc. But you never say “Thai Phnom Penh” to refer to a Cambodian or “Thai Hanoi” to refer to a Vietnamese in Hanoi. Therefore “Thai” does not mean people. It has a very specific meaning.
Thai specifically means people who belong to the Thai family (Lao, Northern Thai, Central Thai/Siamese, and upland Thai).
The Lao are Thai. No matter how much brainwashing the French and Vietnamese/LPRP communists have done to you, there is no denying you speak the same language (essentially) and come from the same family.
I doubt that the junta paid made quick payments to farmers out of a concern for contractual obligations. It was obviously made into a major propaganda piece to boost military support in rural areas.
The welfare of rice farmers was clearly of no concern to the Election Commission when they refused to green light loans to make payments to farmers. Neither did the farmers plight concern the army backed PDRC when they invaded ministries and banks to obstruct any solution, with vocal support from key Democrats.
However, the main point is about the future for rice production subsidies to farmers. After trying to score a major propaganda victory by making rapid payments to farmers, it will be nearly impossible for the junta to scrap all production subsidies for the 2014 wet season crop. Any goodwill gained by the payments now, would be lost when farmers have to sell at depressed market prices at the end of this year.
Off-budget funding has a long tradition in Thai fiscal policy and is far from anyones “unique touch”. Remember the 1.4 trillion Thai Khem Khaeng stimulus program introduced by the Democrats?
Obviously, the junta shall be condemned for suspending democracy and infringing on basic human rights, rather than the merits of their economic policies.
Thanks for Seri Thai’s useful information on the officers behind the coup. One question though about following important statements: “First we must understand that Army Commander Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha was reluctant to carry out this coup though he was pressured to do so by Privy Council Chair ret. Gen Prem Tinsulanonda and others. Prem and his deputy ret. Gen. Surayud Chulanond stand as a nexus between Prayuth and the palace.” Is this speculation or is there reliable evidence for it?
Mr. Taylor, your point about the Yingluck government being obstructed is worth expanding. Obstruction came from courts, from Senate (on the amnesty bill) and from protesters in the streets. The Abhisit government before was also obstructed, particularly by protesters and attackers on PM’s vehicle and regional meetings. Somchai, Samak and Thaksin governments before that also obstructed. While some obstruction could be considered part of government system of “check and balance,” much of it was outside legality. The point is that such illegal obstructions and the inability of the politicized police and the politicized justice system to deal with them fairly and effectively have made Thailand increasingly ungovernable — no matter who is in power. All sides seem to feel they have the right to obstruct a government they dislike by using any means available. Or, once in power they can take whatever action they want. That includes killing drug dealers without trial, blocking public streets for long periods, invading government buildings, seizing airports, preventing elections, pushing for dubious legal judgments (including dissolving political parties and charging a prime minister with murder), shooting opponents, launching grenades at protest meetings and the homes of judges and now, once again, the ultimate obstruction — seizing power in a military coup. Disagreement over policy and competition for political power occur in every country, but most countries find ways to keep disagreement and competition within a set of well-enforced rules that allow reasonable government administration to proceed. I fear Thai will have great difficulty finding a way towards such a set of rules that all sides are willing to follow and that will allow government to deal with the challenges of competitiveness, educating youth, reducing poverty and improving public welfare. The military’s “reconciliation centers” are unlikely to be effective. In any case, they miss the point: we don’t need to agree on everything; we just need to agree on appropriate ways to disagree.
Hi Matt, one of the reasons we don’t post some comments is to avoid exactly the flaming you refer too. Some arguments get repetitive and boring and we exercise our editorial judgement on them. Are there any opinions or views that you feel have been blocked from New Mandala? If so, would you like to set them out in a comment or even a post? Thanks, AW
Another great read. One question worth asking is whether any party other than PDIP would have nominated Kang Jalal. I attended a PDIP rally in Kabupaten Bandung Barat (in Kang Jalal’s electorate) shortly before election day. It should be noted that according to party functionaries in Kab. Bandung Barat, that regency is one of PDIP’s primary strongholds in West Java. During the rally, the head of the West Java PDIP branch, TB Hasanuddin, delivered a speech which focused on the party’s pluralist credentials. He emphasised that PDIP is the only party for which religion and ethnicity are no bar to membership rights and legislative nomination. Given there was a huge Kang Jalal baliho on display, it seemed this speech may have been geared towards counterbalancing the anti-Shia messages emanating from some of the sources mentioned by the author.
PS: clarification re. the second paragraph – 99% of Indonesians are not Sunni Muslims; rather, 99% of Indonesian Muslims follow Sunni Islam.
Not very bright are you Eric (?) If my posts are removed how could you read them? The same posts under a different name ARE posted. Marshall is not respected by mainstream authors and academics either inside or outside Thailand. Last week he posted an out of context comment from Mccargo giving a false innuendo. 2 days ago Andrew Drummond quoted a similar misleading oiece on his own blog.
You don’t get the full pictute because New Mandala censors its input. As my postbag confirms.
The centerpiece of the Vichy ideology was the ‘Révolution nationale’ which of course was quite Fascist in nature. For its historic inspiration it linked back to the Gallo-Roman period and attempted to forge a kind of messianic movement which the values of the state motto “Travail, Famille, Patrie” harked back to. The early Isan activists like Fong Sitthitham and Tiyang Sirikham did not encourage anti-parliamentary rule, personality cults, eugenics, forced labour and collaboration. The Lao living in French Indochina didn’t either. I think your analogy is totally off track. Thailand has often been authoritarian during crisis periods but I think you are pushing the envelope too far with this comparison. Even radicals like Dr. Artha would not prescribe to this view. I can also vouch that 99% of Lao don’t even know what Vichy is these days. They only know the legend of Chao Anuvong which promotes irredentism. Vichy was not about this.
Anders writes: “The junta has already embraced key elements”. By this, you infer that the military are pushing ahead with the Rice Scam, which was Thaksin’s baby. What rubbish! Since when does paying overdue invoices become pushing Thaksinomics forward!?
Fail on all parts, but then, your an expert (supposedly).
Actually, only you are stating it is a “puff piece” and disagreeing with it, apparently solely on that premise while also forgetting how Suthep’s actions caused the government to fall, thereby causing those payments to be delayed further
The Thaksinomics situation reminds me very much of US Republicans decrying Obamacare, while conveniently forgetting it was was their plan first.
I also noticed that 2 days ago the anti coup/royalists comments were getting scads more approval hits, but now it is evening h up. Seems the Khmer Jaune internet gangs have been here. Yes, surely the site will be blocked from within Thailand soon.
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“Foreign influence” in Red Shirt demonstrations
As a native Lao speaker, I have never heard anybody use the term “Thai” to refer to non-Thai or non-Lao people.
Yes you can say, “Thai Krungthep”, “Thai Vientiane”, etc. But you never say “Thai Phnom Penh” to refer to a Cambodian or “Thai Hanoi” to refer to a Vietnamese in Hanoi. Therefore “Thai” does not mean people. It has a very specific meaning.
Thai specifically means people who belong to the Thai family (Lao, Northern Thai, Central Thai/Siamese, and upland Thai).
The Lao are Thai. No matter how much brainwashing the French and Vietnamese/LPRP communists have done to you, there is no denying you speak the same language (essentially) and come from the same family.
After the coup
And slaves to work the property or serve their masters ?
Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts
Hi Marteau!
I doubt that the junta paid made quick payments to farmers out of a concern for contractual obligations. It was obviously made into a major propaganda piece to boost military support in rural areas.
The welfare of rice farmers was clearly of no concern to the Election Commission when they refused to green light loans to make payments to farmers. Neither did the farmers plight concern the army backed PDRC when they invaded ministries and banks to obstruct any solution, with vocal support from key Democrats.
However, the main point is about the future for rice production subsidies to farmers. After trying to score a major propaganda victory by making rapid payments to farmers, it will be nearly impossible for the junta to scrap all production subsidies for the 2014 wet season crop. Any goodwill gained by the payments now, would be lost when farmers have to sell at depressed market prices at the end of this year.
Off-budget funding has a long tradition in Thai fiscal policy and is far from anyones “unique touch”. Remember the 1.4 trillion Thai Khem Khaeng stimulus program introduced by the Democrats?
Obviously, the junta shall be condemned for suspending democracy and infringing on basic human rights, rather than the merits of their economic policies.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
The first and third sentences are factual, while the second is speculation, I would say.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
Thanks for Seri Thai’s useful information on the officers behind the coup. One question though about following important statements: “First we must understand that Army Commander Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha was reluctant to carry out this coup though he was pressured to do so by Privy Council Chair ret. Gen Prem Tinsulanonda and others. Prem and his deputy ret. Gen. Surayud Chulanond stand as a nexus between Prayuth and the palace.” Is this speculation or is there reliable evidence for it?
Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts
Mr. Taylor, your point about the Yingluck government being obstructed is worth expanding. Obstruction came from courts, from Senate (on the amnesty bill) and from protesters in the streets. The Abhisit government before was also obstructed, particularly by protesters and attackers on PM’s vehicle and regional meetings. Somchai, Samak and Thaksin governments before that also obstructed. While some obstruction could be considered part of government system of “check and balance,” much of it was outside legality. The point is that such illegal obstructions and the inability of the politicized police and the politicized justice system to deal with them fairly and effectively have made Thailand increasingly ungovernable — no matter who is in power. All sides seem to feel they have the right to obstruct a government they dislike by using any means available. Or, once in power they can take whatever action they want. That includes killing drug dealers without trial, blocking public streets for long periods, invading government buildings, seizing airports, preventing elections, pushing for dubious legal judgments (including dissolving political parties and charging a prime minister with murder), shooting opponents, launching grenades at protest meetings and the homes of judges and now, once again, the ultimate obstruction — seizing power in a military coup. Disagreement over policy and competition for political power occur in every country, but most countries find ways to keep disagreement and competition within a set of well-enforced rules that allow reasonable government administration to proceed. I fear Thai will have great difficulty finding a way towards such a set of rules that all sides are willing to follow and that will allow government to deal with the challenges of competitiveness, educating youth, reducing poverty and improving public welfare. The military’s “reconciliation centers” are unlikely to be effective. In any case, they miss the point: we don’t need to agree on everything; we just need to agree on appropriate ways to disagree.
Promiscuity into promise?
No, merely Indonesian promiscuity, which covers all facets of Indonesian society, including the preposterous, the political, and the profane.
Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts
[…] http://www.newmandala.org/2014/05/31/thaksin-thinks-prayuth-acts/ […]
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
Hi Matt, one of the reasons we don’t post some comments is to avoid exactly the flaming you refer too. Some arguments get repetitive and boring and we exercise our editorial judgement on them. Are there any opinions or views that you feel have been blocked from New Mandala? If so, would you like to set them out in a comment or even a post? Thanks, AW
Campaigning on religious nationalism
Another great read. One question worth asking is whether any party other than PDIP would have nominated Kang Jalal. I attended a PDIP rally in Kabupaten Bandung Barat (in Kang Jalal’s electorate) shortly before election day. It should be noted that according to party functionaries in Kab. Bandung Barat, that regency is one of PDIP’s primary strongholds in West Java. During the rally, the head of the West Java PDIP branch, TB Hasanuddin, delivered a speech which focused on the party’s pluralist credentials. He emphasised that PDIP is the only party for which religion and ethnicity are no bar to membership rights and legislative nomination. Given there was a huge Kang Jalal baliho on display, it seemed this speech may have been geared towards counterbalancing the anti-Shia messages emanating from some of the sources mentioned by the author.
PS: clarification re. the second paragraph – 99% of Indonesians are not Sunni Muslims; rather, 99% of Indonesian Muslims follow Sunni Islam.
Who’s who in the Thai coup?
A well thought-out and researched piece.
NM has some good articles. It fails when it removes comments and allows flames and te voting system to take over from reasoned debate.
Its reputation rests on whether it allows opposite opinions to be aired.
Like others, this comment may or not be published. But if it is the flamers will take over.
After the coup
Does someone here know whether any governments have yet “recognised” the junta?
The King Never Smiles?
Not very bright are you Eric (?) If my posts are removed how could you read them? The same posts under a different name ARE posted. Marshall is not respected by mainstream authors and academics either inside or outside Thailand. Last week he posted an out of context comment from Mccargo giving a false innuendo. 2 days ago Andrew Drummond quoted a similar misleading oiece on his own blog.
You don’t get the full pictute because New Mandala censors its input. As my postbag confirms.
Flame away if constructive comment passes you by.
“Foreign influence” in Red Shirt demonstrations
The centerpiece of the Vichy ideology was the ‘Révolution nationale’ which of course was quite Fascist in nature. For its historic inspiration it linked back to the Gallo-Roman period and attempted to forge a kind of messianic movement which the values of the state motto “Travail, Famille, Patrie” harked back to. The early Isan activists like Fong Sitthitham and Tiyang Sirikham did not encourage anti-parliamentary rule, personality cults, eugenics, forced labour and collaboration. The Lao living in French Indochina didn’t either. I think your analogy is totally off track. Thailand has often been authoritarian during crisis periods but I think you are pushing the envelope too far with this comparison. Even radicals like Dr. Artha would not prescribe to this view. I can also vouch that 99% of Lao don’t even know what Vichy is these days. They only know the legend of Chao Anuvong which promotes irredentism. Vichy was not about this.
Thorns of the Thai rose
I take it you have not taken a look at the national fiscal budget for 2013, Section 2? “We” are tax payers.
Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts
Anders writes: “The junta has already embraced key elements”. By this, you infer that the military are pushing ahead with the Rice Scam, which was Thaksin’s baby. What rubbish! Since when does paying overdue invoices become pushing Thaksinomics forward!?
Fail on all parts, but then, your an expert (supposedly).
Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts
[…] Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts, New Mandala, 31-05-2014 […]
Thaksin Thinks, Prayuth Acts
Actually, only you are stating it is a “puff piece” and disagreeing with it, apparently solely on that premise while also forgetting how Suthep’s actions caused the government to fall, thereby causing those payments to be delayed further
The Thaksinomics situation reminds me very much of US Republicans decrying Obamacare, while conveniently forgetting it was was their plan first.
Thorns of the Thai rose
When you have $36 billion in assets, who wouldn’t bathe in milk?
$36 billion, man- that is rich !!
$36 billion. Yes siree. RICH !!
Thorns of the Thai rose
I also noticed that 2 days ago the anti coup/royalists comments were getting scads more approval hits, but now it is evening h up. Seems the Khmer Jaune internet gangs have been here. Yes, surely the site will be blocked from within Thailand soon.