They should first reveal how many wives or mistresses they have before comparing to Soekarno.
Or probably how they planning to team up with other countries to massacre their own people. Or probably how they going to push the country into a communist or probably worst state.
My feeling would be, we do not care how much they want to compare to less-than-normal President. (Just like how Kerry had compared himself how distinguished he was in Vietnam war as compare to Bush Jr, votes don’t lie, and he lose the election, people just do not care).
The point is are they really suitable for President? Would the be able to deliver whatever they promised? Gerindra has their plan set when they win the election, but all their plans come down to one thing, money.
And how will they generate those money if they are not planning to borrow from foreign funding (reduced borrowing according to them and given that Indonesia already owed a lot of money). Maybe they should elaborate on how they going to raise those funds rather than all the “paper talk”.
Until then, there are probably high percentage of people going to be Golput.
Many of us have been through similar transitions from believing the propaganda surrounding the Royal Family, researching Thai and Thai Royals history, discovering Duncan McCargo’s Network Monarchy until today recognising how the Royals and their sycophantic network of elites, military, bureaucratic hangers-on continue to live like leaches on the backs of the beautiful Thai people.
My latest realisation is that the Redshirts are (to the extent they are interested in the Monarchy) aligned with the King and his decreed succession to the Crown Prince. Whereas the so-called Royalists Prem/elites/coup military seem to want to control the succession to the Princess, against the King’s decree. So much for being loyal to the King.
Prayuth seemingly is not much interested in the King, no pictures of the King featured in the coup, sending letters rather than looking for an audience, kept waiting for formal approval from the Royal Office. Is the King dead? Did anyone in the Royal family actually approve the Office sending the formal approval to the coup this time, the Princess, now that her father and mother are probably incapable?
Why do the royalists want control of the succession? How do they intend to secure the wealth for their own benefit?
Seems its the royal wealth that has been driving the destruction of democracy in Thailand.
Seems Rose is right, a Republic will be the best outcome for Thailand with the royal wealth taken over by democratically elected governments accountable to all the people of Thailand.
Jokowi and Prabowo wouldn’t know Sukarno from a Varanus komodoensis. Are we going to see a Bandung Conference of 2014 with Jokowi and Prabowo trying to outmatch Sukarno, and each other, in delusion of Third World grandeur ? Which political actor will also play the role of Adam Malik ? Prabowo’s and Jokowi’s legacy and pedigree are certainly located somewhere in Indonesia, but not with Sukarno. They may try to match Sukarno in hubris, but not much else, unless they are also planning to threaten Malaysia again. This is typical Indonesian flights of fancy, and (speaking of Malaysia) will disappear like an airplane into thin air. Sukarno and Marhaenism are dead, buried and gone, Jokowi and Prabowo may wish to articulate their own philosophical visions for Indonesia, but these visions will have absolutely no provenance in Sukarno’s leadership, Sukarno’s personality and Sukarno’s soul.
If you say that Andrew Walker “doesn’t know about Thailand”, “needs to learn more”, and “should search true information”, before he can comment, let me ask you this?
Is there any foreigner who disagrees with you that would listen to at all?
If not, shorten your comment and just say that: “You aren’t Thai so you can’t comment.”
Don’t pretend that there is some level of education a farang needs to obtain to warrant your attention.
Andrew Walker
BA (Hons) (Sydney), PhD (ANU)
Position
Associate Dean (Education) and Senior Fellow, Department of Political & Social Change, School of International, Political & Strategic Studies
Biographical statement
Andrew has been working in mainland Southeast Asia since 1993 when he conducted PhD research on cross-border trading links between northern Thailand, northern Laos and southern China. For the past 10 years he has been working on issues of rural development, resource management and modernisation in northern Thailand. He is currently undertaking ongoing ethnographic fieldwork in Baan Tiam, a northern Thai village in Chiang Mai province.
I think Andrew Walker has certainly made the basic effort you claim to call for.
Common name is mercenaries. And it is the biggets expeort of US led “western” forces surely with Russian/ Chinese market share very small due to their clientele being relatively poor even though they typically msot of their earnings from their resources for it- incidentally selling to their military patrons. TRhis way Chinese contribution of BUrmese welfare is stellar.
The culture of vote-buying has been countered by many researches done recently which concluded that money is no longer the decisive factor. Rural voters actually discuss about the party’s policy, not amount of money given the night before the election day. Yes, vote-buying is still a problem. But it has been marginalized and, in no circumstance, should be used to delegitimize or abolish democracy.
By the way, the proportional voting system is now with the entire nation, not with the provinces as the division. The Constitution was amended in 2010 by the Democrat Party.
Your comment concerning the judiciary is interesting. It has teeth, and fangs, and claws, and talons, to deal with corruption. But it does not treat the poor and the rich the same way.
Thank you for your comment. Really enjoy reading it.
I am sorry that my question mark does not do its job well. But To Kill a Mockingbird does not give you a clue about how to kill a bird too.
I am not sure if we are talking about the same article. But my article implicitly proposes that Thailand needs fairer and more efficient law enforcement, which is uber realistic comparing to the talk about the Moralists’ Council by PDRC.
How does it come that these “Thailand is different and you don’t understand it” trolls usually come out of the woodwork when there is a coup or some other grave Thai crisis.
They always imply that everyone not sharing their opinion is paid by the Dubai-based Antichrist, while the timing might be a sign that instead they are part of some kind of “Internet-Brigade” with the task of diverting attention from the serious wrongdoings of the military/elite (or at least confusing everyone with their low command of the English language).
Not sure what signs you are seeing that would negate gains for the poor, not only in isaan and lanna.
The Thaksin regime has done some things for the poor but it has also siphoned money out of public coffers into private wallets as no regime before. There are gains for the underprivileged but imagine how much bigger those gains would be without the excessive corruption…
What is the point of Isarn remaining part of Thailand? The military junta shows every sign of overthrowing the small gains – eg. in health, education, self-determination – that Lao Isarn won under Thaksin. And every sign of reducing the people of Isarn – and Lanna – to their former status as second class citizens.
Yes, yes it is well known that Bamar pilots were far too incompetent to pilot these aircraft.
It takes years of training and ground crew logistics to hone this craft, and clearly a military that is mostly primitive and pedestrian like the Burmese will not be able to achieve this successfully.
On another note, it seems the hiring of foreign military personnel by incompetent native military staff in a resource-rich country is not limited to Saudi Arabia anymore.
TRT/PPP/PT sought to include rural/working class Thais in the general prosperity Thailand enjoyed through their efforts – not the skim-off prosperity fat-cat non-productive elitists achieved.
So far the coup junta is rounding up people who have nothing to do with the government or political parties and making statements indicating they are boning up for more 112 prosecutions.
If so, it is very bad indeed. Enjoy your civil war, jonfernquest.
It appears to me that the first thing Thailand needs is a discussion what Democracy for Thailand should mean. Not only Thaksin’s camp seem to understand under democracy that you have an election and then the winner can do as he pleases. Compromise and inclusion of the large loosing minority does not seem to be part of the deal.
Elections themselves appear to be a big problem. The culture is open to vote buying, made easier by the majority system in place. Single representation wards invite lower the cost of vote buying. A proportional system with the province as an electoral division would greatly increase the cost of vote rigging.
Corruption is also something that needs to be better defined and Thai people educated on. Corruption starts small, the 20B paid to the police at the motorcycle check point, the fee paid to an salary official to deduct money owed from government officers. Many Thais don’t see these service charged as corrupt because they make life so much easier.
The judicial system needs teeth and deal with poor and rich the same way. Serious crimes need serious punishment.
Thaksin is said to speak for the poor but he himself is elite and is enriching himself lastly on the poor. Things did get worse under his watch and reform is clearly needed. But can the junta bring it in 1-2 years? Unlikely. A whole generation of politicians and young Thai has grown up under this system
just an untrue article from one who does not really know about Thailand. If YOU want to write about us please, learn much more from every side without bias mind or just do for money. Don’t you really know how bad of Thaksin regime? if not,go to find information. p.s. though, elected government does not mean you can do insanely corruption,pass an amnesty bill,try to separate territory,pass an unlawful, do anything for your family and relationship. you know what? just for one populist policy”
rice pledging program” ,there are also corrupt and Thailand lost huge of money and fail of no.1 exporting rice. and more than 10 farmers kill themselves because they dont get their money from govt. elected govt cheated them. this is only one of bad things that govt did. please,go and search true information why people hate Shinawatara family.
The article’s title implied it would suggest what might come next from the point of view of a constitutional law expert but it reads something like Gordon Gekko’s “Greed is Good” sililoquy with no suggestion about might come next or what should come next, other than more pocket filling by the Shinawatra clan and associates, since they are popular and nothing can be done about corruption.
My wife’s response starts the same “Don’t want to talk about this…All politicians are corrupt” then radically deviates. In 1973 as a young student activist she watched while just a few feet away soldiers caught, raped then shot and killed another young student. Unfortunately such trauma really does work to cower most of the survivors into retreat.
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Sukarno’s two bodies
They should first reveal how many wives or mistresses they have before comparing to Soekarno.
Or probably how they planning to team up with other countries to massacre their own people. Or probably how they going to push the country into a communist or probably worst state.
My feeling would be, we do not care how much they want to compare to less-than-normal President. (Just like how Kerry had compared himself how distinguished he was in Vietnam war as compare to Bush Jr, votes don’t lie, and he lose the election, people just do not care).
The point is are they really suitable for President? Would the be able to deliver whatever they promised? Gerindra has their plan set when they win the election, but all their plans come down to one thing, money.
And how will they generate those money if they are not planning to borrow from foreign funding (reduced borrowing according to them and given that Indonesia already owed a lot of money). Maybe they should elaborate on how they going to raise those funds rather than all the “paper talk”.
Until then, there are probably high percentage of people going to be Golput.
Thorns of the Thai rose
Thank you for publishing this article
Many of us have been through similar transitions from believing the propaganda surrounding the Royal Family, researching Thai and Thai Royals history, discovering Duncan McCargo’s Network Monarchy until today recognising how the Royals and their sycophantic network of elites, military, bureaucratic hangers-on continue to live like leaches on the backs of the beautiful Thai people.
My latest realisation is that the Redshirts are (to the extent they are interested in the Monarchy) aligned with the King and his decreed succession to the Crown Prince. Whereas the so-called Royalists Prem/elites/coup military seem to want to control the succession to the Princess, against the King’s decree. So much for being loyal to the King.
Prayuth seemingly is not much interested in the King, no pictures of the King featured in the coup, sending letters rather than looking for an audience, kept waiting for formal approval from the Royal Office. Is the King dead? Did anyone in the Royal family actually approve the Office sending the formal approval to the coup this time, the Princess, now that her father and mother are probably incapable?
Why do the royalists want control of the succession? How do they intend to secure the wealth for their own benefit?
Seems its the royal wealth that has been driving the destruction of democracy in Thailand.
Seems Rose is right, a Republic will be the best outcome for Thailand with the royal wealth taken over by democratically elected governments accountable to all the people of Thailand.
Thailand, what next?
24 hours now till Isarn declares independence. Isarn will secede, the day after Royal Decree is issued legitimising the coup.
Sukarno’s two bodies
A great read – carefully constructed and beautifully written. Thanks, John.
Sukarno’s two bodies
Jokowi and Prabowo wouldn’t know Sukarno from a Varanus komodoensis. Are we going to see a Bandung Conference of 2014 with Jokowi and Prabowo trying to outmatch Sukarno, and each other, in delusion of Third World grandeur ? Which political actor will also play the role of Adam Malik ? Prabowo’s and Jokowi’s legacy and pedigree are certainly located somewhere in Indonesia, but not with Sukarno. They may try to match Sukarno in hubris, but not much else, unless they are also planning to threaten Malaysia again. This is typical Indonesian flights of fancy, and (speaking of Malaysia) will disappear like an airplane into thin air. Sukarno and Marhaenism are dead, buried and gone, Jokowi and Prabowo may wish to articulate their own philosophical visions for Indonesia, but these visions will have absolutely no provenance in Sukarno’s leadership, Sukarno’s personality and Sukarno’s soul.
Thailand’s invitation to violence
If you say that Andrew Walker “doesn’t know about Thailand”, “needs to learn more”, and “should search true information”, before he can comment, let me ask you this?
Is there any foreigner who disagrees with you that would listen to at all?
If not, shorten your comment and just say that: “You aren’t Thai so you can’t comment.”
Don’t pretend that there is some level of education a farang needs to obtain to warrant your attention.
Andrew Walker
BA (Hons) (Sydney), PhD (ANU)
Position
Associate Dean (Education) and Senior Fellow, Department of Political & Social Change, School of International, Political & Strategic Studies
Biographical statement
Andrew has been working in mainland Southeast Asia since 1993 when he conducted PhD research on cross-border trading links between northern Thailand, northern Laos and southern China. For the past 10 years he has been working on issues of rural development, resource management and modernisation in northern Thailand. He is currently undertaking ongoing ethnographic fieldwork in Baan Tiam, a northern Thai village in Chiang Mai province.
I think Andrew Walker has certainly made the basic effort you claim to call for.
Myanmar’s military: Money and guns
Common name is mercenaries. And it is the biggets expeort of US led “western” forces surely with Russian/ Chinese market share very small due to their clientele being relatively poor even though they typically msot of their earnings from their resources for it- incidentally selling to their military patrons. TRhis way Chinese contribution of BUrmese welfare is stellar.
Thailand, what next?
The culture of vote-buying has been countered by many researches done recently which concluded that money is no longer the decisive factor. Rural voters actually discuss about the party’s policy, not amount of money given the night before the election day. Yes, vote-buying is still a problem. But it has been marginalized and, in no circumstance, should be used to delegitimize or abolish democracy.
By the way, the proportional voting system is now with the entire nation, not with the provinces as the division. The Constitution was amended in 2010 by the Democrat Party.
Your comment concerning the judiciary is interesting. It has teeth, and fangs, and claws, and talons, to deal with corruption. But it does not treat the poor and the rich the same way.
Thank you for your comment. Really enjoy reading it.
Thailand, what next?
I am sorry that my question mark does not do its job well. But To Kill a Mockingbird does not give you a clue about how to kill a bird too.
I am not sure if we are talking about the same article. But my article implicitly proposes that Thailand needs fairer and more efficient law enforcement, which is uber realistic comparing to the talk about the Moralists’ Council by PDRC.
Thailand, what next?
Hi Zaw, please do. You are very welcomed. Thank you!!
Thailand’s invitation to violence
How does it come that these “Thailand is different and you don’t understand it” trolls usually come out of the woodwork when there is a coup or some other grave Thai crisis.
They always imply that everyone not sharing their opinion is paid by the Dubai-based Antichrist, while the timing might be a sign that instead they are part of some kind of “Internet-Brigade” with the task of diverting attention from the serious wrongdoings of the military/elite (or at least confusing everyone with their low command of the English language).
Thailand, what next?
Not sure what signs you are seeing that would negate gains for the poor, not only in isaan and lanna.
The Thaksin regime has done some things for the poor but it has also siphoned money out of public coffers into private wallets as no regime before. There are gains for the underprivileged but imagine how much bigger those gains would be without the excessive corruption…
Thailand, what next?
What is the point of Isarn remaining part of Thailand? The military junta shows every sign of overthrowing the small gains – eg. in health, education, self-determination – that Lao Isarn won under Thaksin. And every sign of reducing the people of Isarn – and Lanna – to their former status as second class citizens.
Myanmar’s military: Money and guns
Yes, yes it is well known that Bamar pilots were far too incompetent to pilot these aircraft.
It takes years of training and ground crew logistics to hone this craft, and clearly a military that is mostly primitive and pedestrian like the Burmese will not be able to achieve this successfully.
On another note, it seems the hiring of foreign military personnel by incompetent native military staff in a resource-rich country is not limited to Saudi Arabia anymore.
Thailand, what next?
TRT/PPP/PT sought to include rural/working class Thais in the general prosperity Thailand enjoyed through their efforts – not the skim-off prosperity fat-cat non-productive elitists achieved.
Thailand, what next?
So far the coup junta is rounding up people who have nothing to do with the government or political parties and making statements indicating they are boning up for more 112 prosecutions.
If so, it is very bad indeed. Enjoy your civil war, jonfernquest.
Thailand, what next?
It appears to me that the first thing Thailand needs is a discussion what Democracy for Thailand should mean. Not only Thaksin’s camp seem to understand under democracy that you have an election and then the winner can do as he pleases. Compromise and inclusion of the large loosing minority does not seem to be part of the deal.
Elections themselves appear to be a big problem. The culture is open to vote buying, made easier by the majority system in place. Single representation wards invite lower the cost of vote buying. A proportional system with the province as an electoral division would greatly increase the cost of vote rigging.
Corruption is also something that needs to be better defined and Thai people educated on. Corruption starts small, the 20B paid to the police at the motorcycle check point, the fee paid to an salary official to deduct money owed from government officers. Many Thais don’t see these service charged as corrupt because they make life so much easier.
The judicial system needs teeth and deal with poor and rich the same way. Serious crimes need serious punishment.
Thaksin is said to speak for the poor but he himself is elite and is enriching himself lastly on the poor. Things did get worse under his watch and reform is clearly needed. But can the junta bring it in 1-2 years? Unlikely. A whole generation of politicians and young Thai has grown up under this system
Thailand’s invitation to violence
just an untrue article from one who does not really know about Thailand. If YOU want to write about us please, learn much more from every side without bias mind or just do for money. Don’t you really know how bad of Thaksin regime? if not,go to find information. p.s. though, elected government does not mean you can do insanely corruption,pass an amnesty bill,try to separate territory,pass an unlawful, do anything for your family and relationship. you know what? just for one populist policy”
rice pledging program” ,there are also corrupt and Thailand lost huge of money and fail of no.1 exporting rice. and more than 10 farmers kill themselves because they dont get their money from govt. elected govt cheated them. this is only one of bad things that govt did. please,go and search true information why people hate Shinawatara family.
Thailand, what next?
The article’s title implied it would suggest what might come next from the point of view of a constitutional law expert but it reads something like Gordon Gekko’s “Greed is Good” sililoquy with no suggestion about might come next or what should come next, other than more pocket filling by the Shinawatra clan and associates, since they are popular and nothing can be done about corruption.
How about some realistic attempt
Thailand, what next?
My wife’s response starts the same “Don’t want to talk about this…All politicians are corrupt” then radically deviates. In 1973 as a young student activist she watched while just a few feet away soldiers caught, raped then shot and killed another young student. Unfortunately such trauma really does work to cower most of the survivors into retreat.