The mechanics have been described in NM: “Politics of electoral protest in Thailand” – 7 Feb. For as long as individual interested parties are able to sell a small part of their land to fund a lengthy insurrection in the capital city, preventing voter registration in many districts, stopping voters from approaching polling stations, obstructing polling stations themselves … then all this is irrelevant. Thailand has to get past the Feudal stage before we discuss UN-this or UN-that.
Is the “р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕кр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╕ер╕Зр╕Др╕░р╣Бр╕Щр╕Щ” (don’t wish to vote) option already present on Thai ballots not functionally equivalent to a NOTA option? Can anyone omment on what hapens if a majority of voters choose that option?
A well thought out article and some good points. But using words like “spurious” and “furiously battle” at the beginning shows a western rather than a Thai outlook on democracy. (Yingluck is certainly not taking a furious approach, far from it)
Mr Vadera says: “In a democracy regardless of for whomever we vote, we consent that the winner of that election will represent the whole of that electorate. However if we do not have the means to withhold consent, it is impossible to give consent.”
Absolutely true, but Thais view it slightly differently. Thais share a respect for both the democracy given by their constitution and their respect for the feudalistic class system. I believe they will find a balance that suits this cultural background and resolve that dichotomy. It will take time. Thaksin paved the way to some extent. Yingluck is working more than her brother ever did or would WITH the networks (the elite, sections of the army, etc)
Without understanding Thai culture and thinking, most foreigners can not think outside the western model of democracy which frustrates Thais. It is why some foreign critics of the monarchy are so detested by Thais. For their (to Thais, one -sided)views of course but also for the rather colonial way foreigners sometimes discuss them.
Thai academics will listen but not be lectured at particularly if that is seen as being disrespectful to the monarchy ( and by extention, disrespectful to Thailand and the Thais)
Robin Vadera’s article is thought provoking and I’m glad I read it. It could be a powerful basis for developing a strategy that could work.
Crawford School’s Dr Keith Barney interviews Dr Ng Shui Meng about the disappearance of her husband Sombath Somphone, one of Lao People’s Democratic Republic’s leading civil society voices.
Is there a reason Arthurson why you put the Crown Prince and Thaksin ‘together’? Not only that, but you place the Crown Prince and Thaksin together on a ‘vengeance’ path against all those who opposed Thaksin … why is that?
But Thaksin bent on leading a civil war is nothing new. In Year 2010, Bangkok was a virtual war zone because Thaksin was indeed on a war path, and his General Khattiya was quoted that on direct orders of Thaksin, he was on an ‘urban civil war’ path.
Arthurson have you cleaned your M-79 grenade launcher yet … the weapon of choice by the Red thugs of Thaksin?
Khun tukkae krap. There are a great number of people graduated from institutions in the US, GB, Australia, NZ, etc., who are not fluent in English, e.g., PM. Yingluck. Especially those who do master’s degrees in those countries–1 or 2 yrs–do not have enough time to improve their English.
I totally agree with the underlying message – it makes sense to either have residency requirements or a national party-list system. I assume the Kuala Lumpur based candidate is Siti Sarifah Mustikarini Sutalaksana, running in DKI Jakarta II. This is also the electoral district for all the overseas voters, so it makes sense for her to run in that district – she actually is resident in DKI II.
You are missing the point. In a civil war there are no clear winners. Yingluck may be deposed from office, but her supporters and those more radical than her supporters will NOT go quietly and meekly away this time. Believe it or not, the “Network Monarchy”, the cabal of evildoers who surround Monarchy and not the actual Royals themselves, are in emminent danger of losing power.
Rod – “├пnfluence over Thailand” ? Increasingly Isarn and Lanna don’t see themselves as part of Suthep’s Thailand. And in Lao Isarn’s case it’s always been very questionable whether they see themselves as even part of Thailand. Meanwhile, here is Khon Kaen University’s Professor David Streckfuss – the farang most likely to know Isarn’s true sentiments – on how close Thailand is now to all out civil war – only months, it seems, at best : http://bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/401769/risky-road-ahead-in-avoiding-civil-war
Are you being a troll or do you really believe this stuff you write? I take it by your “The Kamnan” comment that you are a stalwart follower of “Benito Suthep”. If so, you have been tremendously brainwashed and you really need to read up on just how dirty his hands are from all his involvement in corruption dating back to the early 1990s and right up through 2011 as Deputy PM. There are plenty of sources available online about his past nefarious activities, so I am not going to cite chapter and verse here. Suffice to say his actions brought about the downfall of the last democratically elected Democrat-led government.
In the last week we have seen a front-page photo in the Bangkok Post of his armed thugs escorting him through the streets of Bangkok, despite there being outstanding arrest warrants for him for months now and his failure to report to answer charges of murder stemming from the 2010 killings of May 2010. So we know he has powerful, anti-democratic friends in high positions of power who are protecting him from arrest and prosecution, as well as his own private army of some estimated 2,000 guards to keep him out of the hands of the police. Blatant flaunting of the law is destabilizing to the rule of law and social order in any nation. No one is supposed to be above the law, yet clearly for those “good people” like “the Kamnan” the law doesn’t apply.
We also observe that tempers are flaring and hatred is at a boiling point in Thailand. Witness the gun battle and shooting of innocents in Laksi the evening before the February 2nd election. There are nightly grenade attacks. We also saw an assault on a Buddhist monk by a very angry crowd last Monday, something I haven’t previously observed in Thailand. Moreover, there have been widespread calls among the Red Shirts to boycott all temples and hospitals where monks or healthcare workers have given their support to Suthep. This is tearing at the social fabric of Thai society, leaving it badly divided.
that Thailand is on the brink of “something akin to a civil war.” I put primary responsibility for instigating this crisis at the feet of Suthep Thaugsuban, so if the bloody fighting does begin you have nobody else, at least no one else in the public eye, to blame. No one, especially Suthep, seems interested in taking any steps to defuse the situation.
What is more, I think in the end you, Suthep, and the network monarchy are going to lose, and lose BIG. Here is what remains the likeliest scenario: the King will die, the Crown Prince will become the next Head of State, Thaksin will be allowed to come back, and revenge against all those who tried to destroy both of them will seriously begin in earnest.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you. You should have been working on strengthening Thailand’s democratic institutions, and ensuring safeguards against abuses of power through free and fair elections, instead of relying upon a clearly one-sided and prejudiced judicial system to cripple the functioning of government, and years of building up the mythology of the “Monarchy Institution of the Kingdom” into something with too much power, while leaving in place the very dangerous Article 112 of the Constitution. The odds that this will end badly are increasing day by day.
rod.
How do we know Thaksin’s corruption really exists, It could be like Saddam’s weapons of mass distruction, just an excuse to grab control of the country.
All I’ve seen and heard of Thaksin’s corruption is rhetoric repeated over and over.
The Kamnan succeeded in paralyzing the resurgence of the Thaksin corruption machine. That was or is an achievement worthy of a Thai heroism medal. Suthep’s uncompromising stance had perhaps emboldened the silent majority to oppose with more conviction the spread of Thaksin toxic influence over Thailand.
While I agree that having representatives who do not reside in the district is a bad sign, I don’t think that phenomenon is unique to Papua and Papua Barat. We see the same trend all over Indonesia, except in Jakarta.
Regarding the ‘piping’, this was merely a promise uttered on the hustings. This community had no intent of getting their piping and then voting for someone else because all they got was a promise – one that had been reneged on previously.
The author does a great disservice to these villagers, demeaning them in suggesting that these donuts were a ‘delicious treat’ and also in impugning their judgement in implying they would hold a mere promise of funds for infrastructure in the far-off future in higher regard than a snack of deep-fried dough and sugar handed out today.
The snacks would have gone to the children – and then to the dogs and the livestock after they fell on the ground. But they would have got far more impact than a promise made by a cornered politician desperate to get back to her land cruiser.
Elisabeth Kramer was obviously quite taken by this candidate in Malang during their several days together. (She says she was ‘shadowing’ the candidate, haha!) I bet the electorate are not so gullible.
Sir Michael Somare of course ! As he is
as popular on the New Guinea side, as he
is on the Papua side. In fact, ANY ethnic
Papuan (pick any of the 200 or so distinct
tribes) would be more popular than Jakarta.
And if they are Christian or animist (or both), even more so.
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Thailand’s fairest reform?
The mechanics have been described in NM: “Politics of electoral protest in Thailand” – 7 Feb. For as long as individual interested parties are able to sell a small part of their land to fund a lengthy insurrection in the capital city, preventing voter registration in many districts, stopping voters from approaching polling stations, obstructing polling stations themselves … then all this is irrelevant. Thailand has to get past the Feudal stage before we discuss UN-this or UN-that.
Network monarchy’s twilight
Meanwhile, even Thai investors are starting to move out of Thailand, and into Laos, etc. – to avoid Thailand’s political, and other, costs : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Thailand-becomes-sick-man-of-the-Southeast-Asia-30230136.html
Thailand’s elite coup culture
“China seizes $US14.5bn assets linked to ex-spy chief Zhou Yongkang” – ain’t never gonna see this in Thailand!
Thailand’s fairest reform?
Is the “р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕кр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╕ер╕Зр╕Др╕░р╣Бр╕Щр╕Щ” (don’t wish to vote) option already present on Thai ballots not functionally equivalent to a NOTA option? Can anyone omment on what hapens if a majority of voters choose that option?
Thailand’s fairest reform?
A well thought out article and some good points. But using words like “spurious” and “furiously battle” at the beginning shows a western rather than a Thai outlook on democracy. (Yingluck is certainly not taking a furious approach, far from it)
Mr Vadera says: “In a democracy regardless of for whomever we vote, we consent that the winner of that election will represent the whole of that electorate. However if we do not have the means to withhold consent, it is impossible to give consent.”
Absolutely true, but Thais view it slightly differently. Thais share a respect for both the democracy given by their constitution and their respect for the feudalistic class system. I believe they will find a balance that suits this cultural background and resolve that dichotomy. It will take time. Thaksin paved the way to some extent. Yingluck is working more than her brother ever did or would WITH the networks (the elite, sections of the army, etc)
Without understanding Thai culture and thinking, most foreigners can not think outside the western model of democracy which frustrates Thais. It is why some foreign critics of the monarchy are so detested by Thais. For their (to Thais, one -sided)views of course but also for the rather colonial way foreigners sometimes discuss them.
Thai academics will listen but not be lectured at particularly if that is seen as being disrespectful to the monarchy ( and by extention, disrespectful to Thailand and the Thais)
Robin Vadera’s article is thought provoking and I’m glad I read it. It could be a powerful basis for developing a strategy that could work.
What happened to Sombath Somphone?
Crawford School’s Dr Keith Barney interviews Dr Ng Shui Meng about the disappearance of her husband Sombath Somphone, one of Lao People’s Democratic Republic’s leading civil society voices.
https://crawford.anu.edu.au/video/3819/keith-barney-interviews-dr-ng-shui-meng
Network monarchy’s twilight
Go read the Nepali recent history – Demise of the royal family.
The events created by the likes of Suthep will result in Thailand following the foot steps of Nepal – read Anderson above as well.
Network monarchy’s twilight
Is there a reason Arthurson why you put the Crown Prince and Thaksin ‘together’? Not only that, but you place the Crown Prince and Thaksin together on a ‘vengeance’ path against all those who opposed Thaksin … why is that?
But Thaksin bent on leading a civil war is nothing new. In Year 2010, Bangkok was a virtual war zone because Thaksin was indeed on a war path, and his General Khattiya was quoted that on direct orders of Thaksin, he was on an ‘urban civil war’ path.
Arthurson have you cleaned your M-79 grenade launcher yet … the weapon of choice by the Red thugs of Thaksin?
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Khun tukkae krap. There are a great number of people graduated from institutions in the US, GB, Australia, NZ, etc., who are not fluent in English, e.g., PM. Yingluck. Especially those who do master’s degrees in those countries–1 or 2 yrs–do not have enough time to improve their English.
The Out-of-Towners
I totally agree with the underlying message – it makes sense to either have residency requirements or a national party-list system. I assume the Kuala Lumpur based candidate is Siti Sarifah Mustikarini Sutalaksana, running in DKI Jakarta II. This is also the electoral district for all the overseas voters, so it makes sense for her to run in that district – she actually is resident in DKI II.
Network monarchy’s twilight
You are missing the point. In a civil war there are no clear winners. Yingluck may be deposed from office, but her supporters and those more radical than her supporters will NOT go quietly and meekly away this time. Believe it or not, the “Network Monarchy”, the cabal of evildoers who surround Monarchy and not the actual Royals themselves, are in emminent danger of losing power.
Everyday lives of the Malaysian diaspora
[…] is a culture of migration that is motivated by education-related push-pull factors. (I wrote about this at New Mandala […]
Network monarchy’s twilight
Which network is under threat of demise, the Thai monarchy or the Thaksin/Yingluck mafia?
Network monarchy’s twilight
Rod – “├пnfluence over Thailand” ? Increasingly Isarn and Lanna don’t see themselves as part of Suthep’s Thailand. And in Lao Isarn’s case it’s always been very questionable whether they see themselves as even part of Thailand. Meanwhile, here is Khon Kaen University’s Professor David Streckfuss – the farang most likely to know Isarn’s true sentiments – on how close Thailand is now to all out civil war – only months, it seems, at best : http://bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/401769/risky-road-ahead-in-avoiding-civil-war
Network monarchy’s twilight
Are you being a troll or do you really believe this stuff you write? I take it by your “The Kamnan” comment that you are a stalwart follower of “Benito Suthep”. If so, you have been tremendously brainwashed and you really need to read up on just how dirty his hands are from all his involvement in corruption dating back to the early 1990s and right up through 2011 as Deputy PM. There are plenty of sources available online about his past nefarious activities, so I am not going to cite chapter and verse here. Suffice to say his actions brought about the downfall of the last democratically elected Democrat-led government.
In the last week we have seen a front-page photo in the Bangkok Post of his armed thugs escorting him through the streets of Bangkok, despite there being outstanding arrest warrants for him for months now and his failure to report to answer charges of murder stemming from the 2010 killings of May 2010. So we know he has powerful, anti-democratic friends in high positions of power who are protecting him from arrest and prosecution, as well as his own private army of some estimated 2,000 guards to keep him out of the hands of the police. Blatant flaunting of the law is destabilizing to the rule of law and social order in any nation. No one is supposed to be above the law, yet clearly for those “good people” like “the Kamnan” the law doesn’t apply.
We also observe that tempers are flaring and hatred is at a boiling point in Thailand. Witness the gun battle and shooting of innocents in Laksi the evening before the February 2nd election. There are nightly grenade attacks. We also saw an assault on a Buddhist monk by a very angry crowd last Monday, something I haven’t previously observed in Thailand. Moreover, there have been widespread calls among the Red Shirts to boycott all temples and hospitals where monks or healthcare workers have given their support to Suthep. This is tearing at the social fabric of Thai society, leaving it badly divided.
I agree with David Streckfuss in his Bangkok Post op-ed:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/401769/risky-road-ahead-in-avoiding-civil-war
that Thailand is on the brink of “something akin to a civil war.” I put primary responsibility for instigating this crisis at the feet of Suthep Thaugsuban, so if the bloody fighting does begin you have nobody else, at least no one else in the public eye, to blame. No one, especially Suthep, seems interested in taking any steps to defuse the situation.
What is more, I think in the end you, Suthep, and the network monarchy are going to lose, and lose BIG. Here is what remains the likeliest scenario: the King will die, the Crown Prince will become the next Head of State, Thaksin will be allowed to come back, and revenge against all those who tried to destroy both of them will seriously begin in earnest.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you. You should have been working on strengthening Thailand’s democratic institutions, and ensuring safeguards against abuses of power through free and fair elections, instead of relying upon a clearly one-sided and prejudiced judicial system to cripple the functioning of government, and years of building up the mythology of the “Monarchy Institution of the Kingdom” into something with too much power, while leaving in place the very dangerous Article 112 of the Constitution. The odds that this will end badly are increasing day by day.
Network monarchy’s twilight
rod.
How do we know Thaksin’s corruption really exists, It could be like Saddam’s weapons of mass distruction, just an excuse to grab control of the country.
All I’ve seen and heard of Thaksin’s corruption is rhetoric repeated over and over.
Network monarchy’s twilight
The Kamnan succeeded in paralyzing the resurgence of the Thaksin corruption machine. That was or is an achievement worthy of a Thai heroism medal. Suthep’s uncompromising stance had perhaps emboldened the silent majority to oppose with more conviction the spread of Thaksin toxic influence over Thailand.
Who stands for Papua?
While I agree that having representatives who do not reside in the district is a bad sign, I don’t think that phenomenon is unique to Papua and Papua Barat. We see the same trend all over Indonesia, except in Jakarta.
The holes in donut politics
Regarding the ‘piping’, this was merely a promise uttered on the hustings. This community had no intent of getting their piping and then voting for someone else because all they got was a promise – one that had been reneged on previously.
The author does a great disservice to these villagers, demeaning them in suggesting that these donuts were a ‘delicious treat’ and also in impugning their judgement in implying they would hold a mere promise of funds for infrastructure in the far-off future in higher regard than a snack of deep-fried dough and sugar handed out today.
The snacks would have gone to the children – and then to the dogs and the livestock after they fell on the ground. But they would have got far more impact than a promise made by a cornered politician desperate to get back to her land cruiser.
Elisabeth Kramer was obviously quite taken by this candidate in Malang during their several days together. (She says she was ‘shadowing’ the candidate, haha!) I bet the electorate are not so gullible.
Who stands for Papua?
Sir Michael Somare of course ! As he is
as popular on the New Guinea side, as he
is on the Papua side. In fact, ANY ethnic
Papuan (pick any of the 200 or so distinct
tribes) would be more popular than Jakarta.
And if they are Christian or animist (or both), even more so.