There is just one rub here, Mr Longway. In his reaction to this piece, Akanat refers to an incorrect translation on the part of parliamentary staff. The question is, translation of what? For the Thai version of his official parliamentary bio seems largely to match the English version. See here: http://mp.parliament.go.th/map2554/person_detail.aspx?id=NwY47wBiktcUpFTzxVoYDw==
Not only does the article contradict itself, as it shows that in media interviews akanat does not assert any type of fantastical academic achievements, but is quite factual, but also shows how a misunderstanding can have occurred.
If he says he has a masters degree in engineering, economics and management from oxford, then someone who is not familiar with oxford’s range of academic courses could quite logically believe he has undergraduate degrees in each subject as well as a masters degree in each subject.
Honestly most of you are just embarrassing yourselves far more than akanat with this tripe.
wonder if you have thought much about how democracy is supposed to work
You may have missed the fact that Yingluck/PT and the redshirts are supporting election-driven democracy for Thailand, this means that they are willing to accept the results of elections where all citizens vote, not just their own supporters…
this means they are being inclusive if the royals, military and elites as well as splinters of their own supporters wish to put up their own MPs and parties for election and will accept if they win.
The Shinawatra family are not guaranteed any ongoing political power unless those that want power via violent protests and judicial and army coup detat continue to ignore and obstruct the electoral process.
So far the elites funded protesters seem to be stuck in their old, traditional power grabs.
Some say the protests are about keeping control of the Royal succession rather than anything about governing Thailand for the benefit of its people.
Many of us think these foolish and self-destructive fights are destroying the monarchy and that Thailand will benefit when the Royal wealth is returned under control of the government which happened in most other monarchies many years ago.
Point taken.Extended immersion in the traditional British educational system can be a problem on re-entry to Thailand though as you note in the case of Kukrit, one that can be overcome with the right personality.On reflection isn’t Abhisit’s personality – mean spirited, resentful, surly – at the heart of his problems? Some of this was touched on (though more politely) in James Stent”s remarkable essay of a few years ago.
This analysis completely misses the point, I’m afraid. Far from gracefully retiring from the game, the dominant oligarchy of old royalist families, generals and business clans have been fighting an all-out war since 2005 to preserve their power and privilege and prestige. Bhumibol has been a puppet of the oligarchy throughout his reign – the network controls the monarch. Since 2008 the oligarchy has been openly defying Bhumibol’s wishes on the succession and political protest. The king is isolated, ill and ignored. The military’s hesitation is due to credible concern among the top brass that a coup would lead to civil war. Suthep Thaugsuban is just a puppet of the oligarchy – they prefer to work behind the scenes.
This may be the twilight of the network monarchy, but it is not fading away quietly – it is making a desperate last stand.
The attack by the radical wing of New Mandala on Khun Akanat is an outrage! Clearly the pseudo-academic farang who run this site know nothing about Thai culture. Akanat has said it is a clerical error and that’s obviously what it is.
In fact, clerical error is an intrinsic part of Thai culture, built into the structure of the language. As anyone with a modicum of knowledge would know a simple phrase like “have you eaten yet” can have multiple meanings when spoken in Thai. A clerk translating from Thai into English would have to wrestle with the possibilities of it referring to rice, or pizza, or hamburger or spaghetti or …
So, just imagine the fate of the poor clerk faced with Akanat’s simple statement “I graduated from Oxford”. Perfectly understandable that the clerk tasked with creating Akanat’s English language profile for the Parliament covered many possible bases, creating six degrees (why stop at six?) to deal with the creative uncertainty when moving between Thai and English.
What the embittered radicals on New Mandala need to realise is that many of the things they attack are, in fact, honest mistakes.
The coup of 2006 was simply a military manoeuvre that took a wrong turn. The airport occupation of 2008 was merely a slightly unruly tour group. And the Democrat boycott of the February election has an obvious explanation – Abhisit’s EA made a mistake with his diary.
Thailand has an history of these honourable mistakes. Khun Suthep himself was pilloried by embittered rivals when he accidentally sent land reform title deed rather than birthday cards to a number of wealthy residents of Phukhet.
Accidents happen! So please lay off these good people!
You seem to be suggesting that an increase in the number of Indonesians who want sharia law is a sign of growing conservatism/intolerance. But polls which measure people’s views on this show a more complex picture. See this article, for eg:
The military leadership has still done its part this time (by not supporting the elected govt, sitting on its hands like it did in 2008 when it knew the judicial fix was in)
Same can be said for the other elements of ‘network monarchy’ (eg. Election Commissioners, Constitutional Court Judges, University Rectors, Hospital Directors, State Unions etc)
Extensive research and travel don’t mean much unless Olsen-Boyd can speak/understand Thai well enough to get nuance, earn the trust of those who risk prison for lese majeste crimes, and above all, read. And more importantly to recognize symbolism such as Phumiphon’s finger-wagging to Suchinda and Chamlong as the Kabuki theatre it really was in 1992. Nothing was resolved in terms of core issues. Like Lese Majeste. Phumiphon is regarded by most as complicit in the massacres of 1976 which he was. And “dozens” weren’t killed, thousands were.
Olsen-B. oversimplifies the cultural divide between the regions. Nearly all of the northern/northeasterners are extremely well informed, widely read, and capable of interpreting politics without help from their “educated, middle-class Bangkok” brethren thank you very much.
Prayuth didn’t order the Army into action partly because he has reason to believe that many conscripts, NCOs and junior officers as well as a few seniors might not only not shoot at the Red Shirts, but could very well turn their guns around. This is the “watermelon phenomenon” [green outside, red inside]. Many things have changed, but not Western prejudgements.
[…] will give up the parties that they have spent so much money to create. Yet if there is a Jokowi effect, it may have little to do with what Jokowi himself does as candidate or president, and more about […]
Amazing!
This piece of tabloid tittle tattle seems to have received more reaction from the Thai armchair academic fraternity than nearly all other posts in recent times.
I bet Andrew Marshall would feel pleased if he received so many “likes” for his more serious commentaries. Or, is the original post and subsequent interest, an indication of the “real” standard of discussion and knowledge of what is “really” going on in Thailand ?
Modern medicine has been very successful at putting off death, but less so at delaying degeneration of the brain. This trend has made traditional absolute monarchy less workable and less credible. When gerontocracy spirals downward into dementocracy, each crawler in the hierarchy interprets the garbled commands according to his own interest, and the whole system falls apart.
I very much beg to differ. The Islamic parties percentage of the popular vote has been dwindling in the last ten years, and has never garnered a high percentage of the vote. The Islamic parties are as corrupt, perhaps more, than the main parties. Your assertion the PDI-P is the most corrupt party has no proof. In fact, all parties are corrupt, and there are as many Indonesians who are as equally incredulous of Islamic parties, on whom President Yudhoyono relies on for support to augment his party. PKS has never won a large percentage of the Indonesian vote, and likely will not, in the future.
What you call Islamic “teaching” others might call extremism. Some Indonesians would have called (and I would agree) the late Gus Dur, a good Muslim, for promoting tolerance and understanding between Indonesians. Other would call the Islamic terrorist and jailed member of Jema’ah Islamiyah, Abu Bakar Ba’asyir, a good Muslim, which as a terrorist and individual who hates non-Muslims, I hardly think qualifies for much of anything.
MOST Indonesians, even though Islamic consciousness has somewhat risen in the past few years, do not want an Islamic State, not Shari’a Law (even if you might, which I do not know). Most Indonesians do NOT want Indonesia to resemble Aceh Province, even if some do (but not a majority). PDI-P is not perfect, by any means, but it has run the country before. No Islamic Party has led Indonesia for any extensive period of time, because they never get enough votes. Your faith in these parties (like PKS) is unfounded, as these parties are both corrupt and not moderate, like organisations like NU
(Nadhlatul Ulama), which Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) once led. Your calling Golkar a joke, which is hardly a scientific description, may be accurate in the sense that Golkar is not the organisation it once was under Suharto; that is certainly true. That does not mean PKS is honest, well managed, or has any answers for Indonesia, other than purely Islamic ones, which not only most Muslim Indonesians may not want, but it is also a little disingenuous not to mention that there are also Indonesian Hindus (Bali) and Christians (throughout Indonesia), though smaller in number than Muslims, still matter (as Gus Dur correctly said) and will NEVER vote for any Islamic Party, as they do no want to be proselytized by some Muslim in PKS or outside PKS. You may vote for whom you choose, that is your choice, but an Islamic party is not a good choice for a moderate, tolerant, multicultural and multireligious Indonesia. Gus Dur said as much, before he died, and warned about the politicisation of Islam (e.g., PKS) and he was completely right
(even though he was not much of a technocrat and micromanager when he led Indonesia).
The Economist recently remarked that there is a lot of denial in judging just how serious Thailand’s current crisis is – and sadly Professor Jory’s overly optimistic, dream-wish remarks seem in that category. While Jory is talking about secession not being viable for the NE, and N, Duncan McCargo has been talking to the BBC about how Lanna and Isan’s increasing economic viability, far higher economic growth than the rest of Thailand, and mass, global foreign employment of Lanna and Isan workers, is spurring increasing separate self-confidence, and the current conflict. Yes – some sort of rebalancing of Bangkok-regional relations would be the best outcome, along the lines proposed by former PM Anand. But de-centralisation has been mere lip-service for decades, while now sinking Bangkok retains all the strings. Suthep may talk about elected provincial governors – but it’s unlikely he means it. He shows no sign of compromising, and continues to accuse Yingluck of “occupying” the country. I think Yingluck, and older Red Shirts like Thida, are beginning to be squeezed between the rapidly growing younger, more radical Red Shirt separatists, and the now horrified Bangkok elite who realistically see a gathering separatist SECOND front, to their north – as well as the one which is defeating them in the south. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/400343/suthep-rejects-mediation-proposal
Actually “the voice below” is based on the Outkast LP, “The Love Below” but you wouldn’t know that seen as you’re consumed with “Spoonerish” resentment…
Oxbridge? Is that a place?
Akanat is deserving of as much contempt and ridicule that can be decanted onto him. And so do you for claiming that an Oxford education makes someone “impeccable”.
Thankfully, at least in the UK, such absurd snobbery gets treated with the derision it so rightly deserves.
Thanks Suriyon. I just have a question for you. What you try to tell me about him??. I do know he spend most of his life in UK for his education. Just like most of majority of Elite people did. But they are hold the Thai citizen they have they right just like every Thai citizen does. You also have your right to if you are Thai citizen. I do know we are in the politic crisis but everyone will have to follow the rule and the law. They can come out to protest but still cannot do anymore furthers if something not legitimate. We are have to wait and see. As Thai citizen we are have to respect the law and the court house specially the Constitutional law of Thailand.
I beg to differ. Many Indonesians who are pessimistic about political parties end up going with Islamic parties such as PKS (Partai Keadilan Sejahtera or the Prosperous Justice Party) purely out of hope that at least they will act accordingly to Islamic teaching. Other parties do not inspire confidence – PDIP has recently been named the most corrupt party, Demokrat’s performance has decreased, and Golkar is a joke to any who have witnessed/felt the injustice done by Bakrie.
Jayboy is absolutely correct here. But I wonder about his comment earlier about the lack of connection between having a “prestigious education” and “electability”. Clearly this is a matter that resists generalization. Kukrit and Abhisit both attended Oxford. The former demonstrated a profound understanding of his country over the course of many decades, while the latter has proved out of touch at every turn. Surely we must acknowledge, and not just in the case of Thailand, the risk that receiving the majority of one’s education abroad can leave one very much out of touch with the society in which one aspires to run for office, above all if one aspires to high office or a major role at a young age.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Let the campaign begin
[…] been waiting for you to start this thread KW . Here's an interesting link for any who may be interested : Let the campaign begin […]
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
There is just one rub here, Mr Longway. In his reaction to this piece, Akanat refers to an incorrect translation on the part of parliamentary staff. The question is, translation of what? For the Thai version of his official parliamentary bio seems largely to match the English version. See here: http://mp.parliament.go.th/map2554/person_detail.aspx?id=NwY47wBiktcUpFTzxVoYDw==
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Not only does the article contradict itself, as it shows that in media interviews akanat does not assert any type of fantastical academic achievements, but is quite factual, but also shows how a misunderstanding can have occurred.
If he says he has a masters degree in engineering, economics and management from oxford, then someone who is not familiar with oxford’s range of academic courses could quite logically believe he has undergraduate degrees in each subject as well as a masters degree in each subject.
Honestly most of you are just embarrassing yourselves far more than akanat with this tripe.
Network monarchy’s twilight
mmmm Thomas
wonder if you have thought much about how democracy is supposed to work
You may have missed the fact that Yingluck/PT and the redshirts are supporting election-driven democracy for Thailand, this means that they are willing to accept the results of elections where all citizens vote, not just their own supporters…
this means they are being inclusive if the royals, military and elites as well as splinters of their own supporters wish to put up their own MPs and parties for election and will accept if they win.
The Shinawatra family are not guaranteed any ongoing political power unless those that want power via violent protests and judicial and army coup detat continue to ignore and obstruct the electoral process.
So far the elites funded protesters seem to be stuck in their old, traditional power grabs.
Some say the protests are about keeping control of the Royal succession rather than anything about governing Thailand for the benefit of its people.
Many of us think these foolish and self-destructive fights are destroying the monarchy and that Thailand will benefit when the Royal wealth is returned under control of the government which happened in most other monarchies many years ago.
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Point taken.Extended immersion in the traditional British educational system can be a problem on re-entry to Thailand though as you note in the case of Kukrit, one that can be overcome with the right personality.On reflection isn’t Abhisit’s personality – mean spirited, resentful, surly – at the heart of his problems? Some of this was touched on (though more politely) in James Stent”s remarkable essay of a few years ago.
Network monarchy’s twilight
This analysis completely misses the point, I’m afraid. Far from gracefully retiring from the game, the dominant oligarchy of old royalist families, generals and business clans have been fighting an all-out war since 2005 to preserve their power and privilege and prestige. Bhumibol has been a puppet of the oligarchy throughout his reign – the network controls the monarch. Since 2008 the oligarchy has been openly defying Bhumibol’s wishes on the succession and political protest. The king is isolated, ill and ignored. The military’s hesitation is due to credible concern among the top brass that a coup would lead to civil war. Suthep Thaugsuban is just a puppet of the oligarchy – they prefer to work behind the scenes.
This may be the twilight of the network monarchy, but it is not fading away quietly – it is making a desperate last stand.
All this is explained in detail in my article #р╕Бр╕ер╕╡р╕вр╕╕р╕Д.
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
The attack by the radical wing of New Mandala on Khun Akanat is an outrage! Clearly the pseudo-academic farang who run this site know nothing about Thai culture. Akanat has said it is a clerical error and that’s obviously what it is.
In fact, clerical error is an intrinsic part of Thai culture, built into the structure of the language. As anyone with a modicum of knowledge would know a simple phrase like “have you eaten yet” can have multiple meanings when spoken in Thai. A clerk translating from Thai into English would have to wrestle with the possibilities of it referring to rice, or pizza, or hamburger or spaghetti or …
So, just imagine the fate of the poor clerk faced with Akanat’s simple statement “I graduated from Oxford”. Perfectly understandable that the clerk tasked with creating Akanat’s English language profile for the Parliament covered many possible bases, creating six degrees (why stop at six?) to deal with the creative uncertainty when moving between Thai and English.
What the embittered radicals on New Mandala need to realise is that many of the things they attack are, in fact, honest mistakes.
The coup of 2006 was simply a military manoeuvre that took a wrong turn. The airport occupation of 2008 was merely a slightly unruly tour group. And the Democrat boycott of the February election has an obvious explanation – Abhisit’s EA made a mistake with his diary.
Thailand has an history of these honourable mistakes. Khun Suthep himself was pilloried by embittered rivals when he accidentally sent land reform title deed rather than birthday cards to a number of wealthy residents of Phukhet.
Accidents happen! So please lay off these good people!
Let the campaign begin
You seem to be suggesting that an increase in the number of Indonesians who want sharia law is a sign of growing conservatism/intolerance. But polls which measure people’s views on this show a more complex picture. See this article, for eg:
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/seventy-two-percent-of-indonesians-favor-shariah-law-pew-forum/
Network monarchy’s twilight
The military leadership has still done its part this time (by not supporting the elected govt, sitting on its hands like it did in 2008 when it knew the judicial fix was in)
Same can be said for the other elements of ‘network monarchy’ (eg. Election Commissioners, Constitutional Court Judges, University Rectors, Hospital Directors, State Unions etc)
Network monarchy’s twilight
Extensive research and travel don’t mean much unless Olsen-Boyd can speak/understand Thai well enough to get nuance, earn the trust of those who risk prison for lese majeste crimes, and above all, read. And more importantly to recognize symbolism such as Phumiphon’s finger-wagging to Suchinda and Chamlong as the Kabuki theatre it really was in 1992. Nothing was resolved in terms of core issues. Like Lese Majeste. Phumiphon is regarded by most as complicit in the massacres of 1976 which he was. And “dozens” weren’t killed, thousands were.
Olsen-B. oversimplifies the cultural divide between the regions. Nearly all of the northern/northeasterners are extremely well informed, widely read, and capable of interpreting politics without help from their “educated, middle-class Bangkok” brethren thank you very much.
Prayuth didn’t order the Army into action partly because he has reason to believe that many conscripts, NCOs and junior officers as well as a few seniors might not only not shoot at the Red Shirts, but could very well turn their guns around. This is the “watermelon phenomenon” [green outside, red inside]. Many things have changed, but not Western prejudgements.
Meet Joko Widodo
[…] will give up the parties that they have spent so much money to create. Yet if there is a Jokowi effect, it may have little to do with what Jokowi himself does as candidate or president, and more about […]
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Amazing!
This piece of tabloid tittle tattle seems to have received more reaction from the Thai armchair academic fraternity than nearly all other posts in recent times.
I bet Andrew Marshall would feel pleased if he received so many “likes” for his more serious commentaries. Or, is the original post and subsequent interest, an indication of the “real” standard of discussion and knowledge of what is “really” going on in Thailand ?
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Before reforming country. He must reform his ecthics
Network monarchy’s twilight
Modern medicine has been very successful at putting off death, but less so at delaying degeneration of the brain. This trend has made traditional absolute monarchy less workable and less credible. When gerontocracy spirals downward into dementocracy, each crawler in the hierarchy interprets the garbled commands according to his own interest, and the whole system falls apart.
Let the campaign begin
Ashli,
I very much beg to differ. The Islamic parties percentage of the popular vote has been dwindling in the last ten years, and has never garnered a high percentage of the vote. The Islamic parties are as corrupt, perhaps more, than the main parties. Your assertion the PDI-P is the most corrupt party has no proof. In fact, all parties are corrupt, and there are as many Indonesians who are as equally incredulous of Islamic parties, on whom President Yudhoyono relies on for support to augment his party. PKS has never won a large percentage of the Indonesian vote, and likely will not, in the future.
What you call Islamic “teaching” others might call extremism. Some Indonesians would have called (and I would agree) the late Gus Dur, a good Muslim, for promoting tolerance and understanding between Indonesians. Other would call the Islamic terrorist and jailed member of Jema’ah Islamiyah, Abu Bakar Ba’asyir, a good Muslim, which as a terrorist and individual who hates non-Muslims, I hardly think qualifies for much of anything.
MOST Indonesians, even though Islamic consciousness has somewhat risen in the past few years, do not want an Islamic State, not Shari’a Law (even if you might, which I do not know). Most Indonesians do NOT want Indonesia to resemble Aceh Province, even if some do (but not a majority). PDI-P is not perfect, by any means, but it has run the country before. No Islamic Party has led Indonesia for any extensive period of time, because they never get enough votes. Your faith in these parties (like PKS) is unfounded, as these parties are both corrupt and not moderate, like organisations like NU
(Nadhlatul Ulama), which Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) once led. Your calling Golkar a joke, which is hardly a scientific description, may be accurate in the sense that Golkar is not the organisation it once was under Suharto; that is certainly true. That does not mean PKS is honest, well managed, or has any answers for Indonesia, other than purely Islamic ones, which not only most Muslim Indonesians may not want, but it is also a little disingenuous not to mention that there are also Indonesian Hindus (Bali) and Christians (throughout Indonesia), though smaller in number than Muslims, still matter (as Gus Dur correctly said) and will NEVER vote for any Islamic Party, as they do no want to be proselytized by some Muslim in PKS or outside PKS. You may vote for whom you choose, that is your choice, but an Islamic party is not a good choice for a moderate, tolerant, multicultural and multireligious Indonesia. Gus Dur said as much, before he died, and warned about the politicisation of Islam (e.g., PKS) and he was completely right
(even though he was not much of a technocrat and micromanager when he led Indonesia).
The weakness of the Thai royalists
The Economist recently remarked that there is a lot of denial in judging just how serious Thailand’s current crisis is – and sadly Professor Jory’s overly optimistic, dream-wish remarks seem in that category. While Jory is talking about secession not being viable for the NE, and N, Duncan McCargo has been talking to the BBC about how Lanna and Isan’s increasing economic viability, far higher economic growth than the rest of Thailand, and mass, global foreign employment of Lanna and Isan workers, is spurring increasing separate self-confidence, and the current conflict. Yes – some sort of rebalancing of Bangkok-regional relations would be the best outcome, along the lines proposed by former PM Anand. But de-centralisation has been mere lip-service for decades, while now sinking Bangkok retains all the strings. Suthep may talk about elected provincial governors – but it’s unlikely he means it. He shows no sign of compromising, and continues to accuse Yingluck of “occupying” the country. I think Yingluck, and older Red Shirts like Thida, are beginning to be squeezed between the rapidly growing younger, more radical Red Shirt separatists, and the now horrified Bangkok elite who realistically see a gathering separatist SECOND front, to their north – as well as the one which is defeating them in the south.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/400343/suthep-rejects-mediation-proposal
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Actually “the voice below” is based on the Outkast LP, “The Love Below” but you wouldn’t know that seen as you’re consumed with “Spoonerish” resentment…
Oxbridge? Is that a place?
Akanat is deserving of as much contempt and ridicule that can be decanted onto him. And so do you for claiming that an Oxford education makes someone “impeccable”.
Thankfully, at least in the UK, such absurd snobbery gets treated with the derision it so rightly deserves.
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Thanks Suriyon. I just have a question for you. What you try to tell me about him??. I do know he spend most of his life in UK for his education. Just like most of majority of Elite people did. But they are hold the Thai citizen they have they right just like every Thai citizen does. You also have your right to if you are Thai citizen. I do know we are in the politic crisis but everyone will have to follow the rule and the law. They can come out to protest but still cannot do anymore furthers if something not legitimate. We are have to wait and see. As Thai citizen we are have to respect the law and the court house specially the Constitutional law of Thailand.
Let the campaign begin
I beg to differ. Many Indonesians who are pessimistic about political parties end up going with Islamic parties such as PKS (Partai Keadilan Sejahtera or the Prosperous Justice Party) purely out of hope that at least they will act accordingly to Islamic teaching. Other parties do not inspire confidence – PDIP has recently been named the most corrupt party, Demokrat’s performance has decreased, and Golkar is a joke to any who have witnessed/felt the injustice done by Bakrie.
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
Jayboy is absolutely correct here. But I wonder about his comment earlier about the lack of connection between having a “prestigious education” and “electability”. Clearly this is a matter that resists generalization. Kukrit and Abhisit both attended Oxford. The former demonstrated a profound understanding of his country over the course of many decades, while the latter has proved out of touch at every turn. Surely we must acknowledge, and not just in the case of Thailand, the risk that receiving the majority of one’s education abroad can leave one very much out of touch with the society in which one aspires to run for office, above all if one aspires to high office or a major role at a young age.