Why should the King intervene? Should the Thai people learn to be “grown-ups” and be responsible for their own actions, for better or for worse? The fact is that the King,an elderly gentleman, has not much time remaining on this earth…Why would you want to burden him with such a task? I believe that he wants Thai people to solve problem on their own. Alas, if the king were to die, then Thai people will have to learn how to live with each other; they need to do it now.
Khun Vichai given the dreadful performance of the Yingluck government, one would have thought that the opportunity, right now, for opposition parties to make hay could not be better. But, of course, that will not do because of Thaksin’s ‘corruption’. The PDRC thus proposes that an unelected ‘People’s Council’ will work to clean up Thai politics prior to an election. Where is the road map for this? When Suthep was Deputy PM there were serious questions over a Cassava pledging scheme, Khun Suthep was dancing around the legal system to avoid being closely questioned about palm oil price fixing. Doesn’t this all sound a bit ‘plus ca change…….’? The People’s Council would no doubt be filled by existing, appointed senators, many of whom were given their seats post the last coup and pre the 2011 election. Along with various other appointees to bodies such as the ECC there have already been a fair few who couldn’t even wait for the election to display their ‘loyalties’. So on this basis why would any body trust Suthep,the PDRC and its network support to protect the average person’s right to vote as they wished in elections where one side decides who can run for office and who cannot? If you believe that Thaksin has created a one party state in Thailand then offer me something to believe that Suthep et el is not intent on achieving the exact same thing.
Thanks Chan for your fine work and thank you for wanting every Thai person to have a fair chance in the democratic process. I have thought of writing a letter opposing the views of Vanina’s letter but chose not to, because I realized that her reasoning about how democracy should work in Thailand was so ludicrous and self-serving that anyone with the basic knowledge of democracy can infer that she has a hidden agenda. Given that Mr. Obama used to live in this part of the world, he knows how the majority of people here are being marginalized and utilized as pawns in order to fight for the elites. As a President of the US, he would have been brief about Thailand’s situation since he first came to office. What perplexes me the most was her lack of sympathy/empathy for people who have opposing views. Not one word was mentioned about these people. She chose to talk instead about Thaksin. I wondered if she thought that Mr. Obama can easily be manipulated.
“… tinpot dictator in the making, if ever there was one.” Case that he, by what means however, manages to get the majority. And then? If this Gov rules out that you have to pass an exam to get a future voting license, or all farmers have to run setkit po piang? Your recommenandations for the way out, please?
Degven did not compare this government with Hitler. It is is just the most extreme example that the majority can choose a harmful leader. You can replace the case with a smoother Latino one.
In this appalling mutually destructive “Dance of Death” in a hither to mostly peaceful society already morally thoroughly destroyed, your question is itself appalling -exactly because it is logical.
If one seriously look at Buddhism and its honest practitioners, there is no point or reason for such disquisition and it simply and loudly shows the sorry state of human ignorance and deprivity.
The guardians of sacred guiding faith is now a “Bald Headed Band (now happily both- sorry, all- genders included as a new feature) Inc. Plc.” for rent to the highest bidder.
The embryology of it is easily seen in current Burma right now where any deft handler can easily use ready made assembly of buoyant pulsating mass of young men and women in robes to usurp millenium old social and religious traditions now available for rent.
Ask Helvey and Sharp. And now Aung Thaung. “Revolutionary Monk’s Army” (Sanghas Congress, it is called, unashamedly and misleadingly) and “Women’s Liberation and Equality Nuns”.
Yes. This Buddhist Inc. thingy these Thai’s are into for millenium-old habit can also be used like a stick and is better than drones.
@eedegven Comparing Yingluck/Thaksin with the Nazis? Didn’t someone tell you the moment anyone raises Hitler or Nazis in an argument they have already lost the argument? The rural poor voted for Thaksin’s party every time there was an election in the past 10 years for a reason – perhaps it’s time the Democratic Party reflected on this instead of noisily agitating for coups and for constitutional change to load the dice in their own favour. And Suthep – he is probably even MORE UNSAVOURY than Thaksin. I don’t trust him one bit – tinpot dictator in the making, if ever there was one.
When asked … whether the door remained open for the army to stage a coup, Prayuth said “I won’t say open or closed. Everything depends on the situation.” 27 December 2013
“[A coup] is not a topic that we should be talking about every day…. The media should stop speculating… Why do you keep asking me so often? It’s like going shopping at market every day…”- Prayuth, 12 January 2014.
“Whenever conflicts become violent and insoluble, the military will have to solve them. We will do our best to take care of the nation and use the right methods.” Prayuth, 23 January 2014
———
“There are historical parallels to Prayuth’s predicament. In 1989, General Suchinda Kraprayoon, soon to be army commander and later prime minister after leading his own coup, explained to one of the authors before his putsch why he would never try to seize power: it had become too difficult compared to the past. It was not so much the actual overthrow of the government, which Suchinda said could be accomplished relatively easily as long as the members of a single military academy prep school class in key positions agreed to participate.
The hard part, according to Suchinda, was the following days during which the coup leader would have to, first, personally go to the royal palace and beg the monarch for forgiveness, which if successful would result in a royal pardon and legal immunity for the coup group. Second was the necessity of convincing the international community to recognize the new coup-installed government and thereby ensure that the Thai economy and banking system was not placed under sanctions.
Less than 15 months after this conversation, Suchinda helped lead the coup which overthrew the government of then elected Prime Minister Chatchai Choonhavan. Given the solidarity of his military academy classmates (Class 5), the actual seizure of power was the easiest part of his putsch. Prayuth’s situation is considerably different in that the academy class system has become highly factionalized and the international community is likely to respond strongly to a telegraphed coup that deposes Yingluck’s elected administration.” John Cole and Steve Sciacchitano, 17 January 2014. (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-02-170114.html)
“We can’t beat the Thaksin regime at the ballot box with a platform that protects our own old guard interests, so we protest against elections and instead are in the streets rallying support for forming a government led by elites we appoint.”
That is not democracy.
If you want to maintain democracy and vote out the Thaksin regime, you have to outflank it. Once you have given up your old guard interests, it is easy to do.
1. Create a platform that deals with income inequality in a meaningful way.
2. Create a platform that stimulates the microeconomies in the North.
3. Create a platform that has a 21st century vision to clean tech and ease of pollution and overcrowding in Bangkok.
4. Create a platform that includes city and regional planning for both rapid and sustainable growth of economic zones outside of Bangkok.
Indeed, tax avoidance would have been a powerful point to hold against him in an election.
However, to win such an election you also have to make *credible* proposals for improving voter’s lives more than the other side, and push forward leaders who can implement such proposals (not those with a history of major corruption like Suthep).
In other words, in times of economic growth, you can’t win with a purely negative campaign.
> Beware “ammart”, you are in grave danger of losing everything!
Ah, if it were only that simple. Big capital never loses. There might be a few old aristocrats not wielding power as they used to, and a some businessmen worth a few billion less… but rest assured, whoever is running the gov’t, none of the “ammart” will ever be wondering where their next bowl of rice is coming from, as 50% of the Thai populace do.
Let’s face it. Thaksin is not exactly a great social reformer, nor a committed corruption fighter. His opponents are obviously even less so. It’s a lose-or-lose-more situation for the people, and there’s nothing that can be done about it (in the short term).
Everyone in Thailand knows..what is what..who is who..since we have had the political conflict for 9 years, because we are living in DtawLae Land – people in Thai society have tried to make an excuse and cover the truths. This is a problem they have the law to protect them from their actions in politics..the examples that we could see from medias… coups..funerals..bills for hospitals. If we don’t accept the facts what happen in Thailand we can not solve the problems.
As predicted, Thailand’s Feb2nd election decided nothing and only deepened the distrust and divide between opposing camps.
The EC Commissioner estimates that the final election results could be, a big if, announced within six months.
In the meantime caretaker puppet Yingluck will have to address the growing desperation of the Thai rice farmers because of the monstrous failure of her Rice Pledge and Rotting Rice Stockpile Scheme. The Scheme is bankrupt, it is riddled with corruption, the stockpile is rotting and its quality degraded to the point that its ‘exportability’ is being eroded, shunned even by country importers. And the Thai rice farmers, hundreds of thousands of them, had still not been paid for their rice and a few (maybe more) had been driven to suicides.
The Red Shirts thuggish elements had started intimidating groups of rice farmers who rise in protests, nearly daily for several provinces by blocking roads.
“Mr Chatree said he would mobilise farmers across the province to permanently shut down the intersection on Friday at 10am if Mr Rapee fails to provide them with an acceptable solution by Friday. In an emotional address to protesters, Mr Chatree said both local red-shirts and community leaders tried to pressure him to end the protest, on orders from high-level officials.
The red-shirts threatened to hurt his family if he continued to lead the rally seeking money for unpaid farmers including for himself, he said.
“I am concerned about my family but I cannot just stop demanding because all our fellow farmers are in distress,” Mr Chatree said.
At one point, Mr Chatree burst into tears while addressing the crowd. A number of protesters also started crying.”
——————-
Yingluck’s nightmares are just beginning with this Rice Pledge and Rotting Stockpile scandal. Because when or while those desperate farmers start protesting in Bangkok, the NCCC will start the PM impeachment scrutiny against Yingluck for willful or criminal neglect while Chairman of the Rice Committee.
This comparison – though frequently heard from Thais opposing Thaksin – is so ridiculous, it doesn’t deserve a reply, but it shows quite good the strange ahistorical microcosm the whistle-mob is trapped in.
What an insight, now everything is clear as the truth being revealed! The people of Thailand has enlightern to the truth, that they the people has the right to choose the governmdnt they want and not being led by the small self interest elites. Power to the people.
Claim 1. You are alleging that the amnesty bill clearing Thaksin was forced on Yingluck, and that the bill was not in Thaksin’s interest because he never wanted to come back anyway.
Claim 2. You are alleging that, because Thakin always intended to step down one day, the coup was unnecessary.
IMO anyone who knows much more than is on the ABC TV news (not difficult, that) would find both allegations to be completely ridiculous.
“… unseat a democratically elected governmen(no matter how unsavory)”
I tried and found in wikipedia that German people in 1933 voted with 43.91% plus 7.97% for Hitler, who did many bad things. I do not understand why, and also not why so many Thai people think good of him. I do not trust what they promise when they want to win a poll. When after the poll they do too many bad things, I think it is right if those who can see it, try to stop them before it is to late.
One point which was not mentioned in Chan’s excellent letter was that the testimony given to the Court by the then Bank of Thailand Governor confirming that it was he, and not the Prime Minister, who was the direct supervisor of the FIDF was given in secret. This testimony was not subsequently divulged by the Court to Thaksin’s legal team.
As regards the auction price, when seeking to realise security for non performing loans, the prime responsibility for any bank or financial institution is to achieve a price that will be sufficient to clear the debt from their books. If the purchaser gets a bargain, that’s their good luck. It happens frequently in auctions of this nature.
In any event, it was the conflict of interest issue which the Court highlighted in its judgement, and the then Central Bank Governor’s testimony seemed to call that into question.
I do think however that Thaksin and his wife were reckless in pursuing this purchase. Why on earth did they need more wealth? I think it was one of several incidences where Thaksin displayed arrogance and poor judgement, and thus gave his enemies an opening to attack him.
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Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Why should the King intervene? Should the Thai people learn to be “grown-ups” and be responsible for their own actions, for better or for worse? The fact is that the King,an elderly gentleman, has not much time remaining on this earth…Why would you want to burden him with such a task? I believe that he wants Thai people to solve problem on their own. Alas, if the king were to die, then Thai people will have to learn how to live with each other; they need to do it now.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Khun Vichai given the dreadful performance of the Yingluck government, one would have thought that the opportunity, right now, for opposition parties to make hay could not be better. But, of course, that will not do because of Thaksin’s ‘corruption’. The PDRC thus proposes that an unelected ‘People’s Council’ will work to clean up Thai politics prior to an election. Where is the road map for this? When Suthep was Deputy PM there were serious questions over a Cassava pledging scheme, Khun Suthep was dancing around the legal system to avoid being closely questioned about palm oil price fixing. Doesn’t this all sound a bit ‘plus ca change…….’? The People’s Council would no doubt be filled by existing, appointed senators, many of whom were given their seats post the last coup and pre the 2011 election. Along with various other appointees to bodies such as the ECC there have already been a fair few who couldn’t even wait for the election to display their ‘loyalties’. So on this basis why would any body trust Suthep,the PDRC and its network support to protect the average person’s right to vote as they wished in elections where one side decides who can run for office and who cannot? If you believe that Thaksin has created a one party state in Thailand then offer me something to believe that Suthep et el is not intent on achieving the exact same thing.
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
Thanks Chan for your fine work and thank you for wanting every Thai person to have a fair chance in the democratic process. I have thought of writing a letter opposing the views of Vanina’s letter but chose not to, because I realized that her reasoning about how democracy should work in Thailand was so ludicrous and self-serving that anyone with the basic knowledge of democracy can infer that she has a hidden agenda. Given that Mr. Obama used to live in this part of the world, he knows how the majority of people here are being marginalized and utilized as pawns in order to fight for the elites. As a President of the US, he would have been brief about Thailand’s situation since he first came to office. What perplexes me the most was her lack of sympathy/empathy for people who have opposing views. Not one word was mentioned about these people. She chose to talk instead about Thaksin. I wondered if she thought that Mr. Obama can easily be manipulated.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
“… tinpot dictator in the making, if ever there was one.” Case that he, by what means however, manages to get the majority. And then? If this Gov rules out that you have to pass an exam to get a future voting license, or all farmers have to run setkit po piang? Your recommenandations for the way out, please?
Degven did not compare this government with Hitler. It is is just the most extreme example that the majority can choose a harmful leader. You can replace the case with a smoother Latino one.
The colonel from Savannakhet
Gen.Kongle died in France on Jan 17th according to Dr Richard Sisomorn of Amerilao website.
MAY YOU GO TO SUKHATI(RIP)
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
In this appalling mutually destructive “Dance of Death” in a hither to mostly peaceful society already morally thoroughly destroyed, your question is itself appalling -exactly because it is logical.
If one seriously look at Buddhism and its honest practitioners, there is no point or reason for such disquisition and it simply and loudly shows the sorry state of human ignorance and deprivity.
The guardians of sacred guiding faith is now a “Bald Headed Band (now happily both- sorry, all- genders included as a new feature) Inc. Plc.” for rent to the highest bidder.
The embryology of it is easily seen in current Burma right now where any deft handler can easily use ready made assembly of buoyant pulsating mass of young men and women in robes to usurp millenium old social and religious traditions now available for rent.
Ask Helvey and Sharp. And now Aung Thaung. “Revolutionary Monk’s Army” (Sanghas Congress, it is called, unashamedly and misleadingly) and “Women’s Liberation and Equality Nuns”.
Yes. This Buddhist Inc. thingy these Thai’s are into for millenium-old habit can also be used like a stick and is better than drones.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
@eedegven Comparing Yingluck/Thaksin with the Nazis? Didn’t someone tell you the moment anyone raises Hitler or Nazis in an argument they have already lost the argument? The rural poor voted for Thaksin’s party every time there was an election in the past 10 years for a reason – perhaps it’s time the Democratic Party reflected on this instead of noisily agitating for coups and for constitutional change to load the dice in their own favour. And Suthep – he is probably even MORE UNSAVOURY than Thaksin. I don’t trust him one bit – tinpot dictator in the making, if ever there was one.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Some quotes:
When asked … whether the door remained open for the army to stage a coup, Prayuth said “I won’t say open or closed. Everything depends on the situation.” 27 December 2013
“[A coup] is not a topic that we should be talking about every day…. The media should stop speculating… Why do you keep asking me so often? It’s like going shopping at market every day…”- Prayuth, 12 January 2014.
“Whenever conflicts become violent and insoluble, the military will have to solve them. We will do our best to take care of the nation and use the right methods.” Prayuth, 23 January 2014
———
“There are historical parallels to Prayuth’s predicament. In 1989, General Suchinda Kraprayoon, soon to be army commander and later prime minister after leading his own coup, explained to one of the authors before his putsch why he would never try to seize power: it had become too difficult compared to the past. It was not so much the actual overthrow of the government, which Suchinda said could be accomplished relatively easily as long as the members of a single military academy prep school class in key positions agreed to participate.
The hard part, according to Suchinda, was the following days during which the coup leader would have to, first, personally go to the royal palace and beg the monarch for forgiveness, which if successful would result in a royal pardon and legal immunity for the coup group. Second was the necessity of convincing the international community to recognize the new coup-installed government and thereby ensure that the Thai economy and banking system was not placed under sanctions.
Less than 15 months after this conversation, Suchinda helped lead the coup which overthrew the government of then elected Prime Minister Chatchai Choonhavan. Given the solidarity of his military academy classmates (Class 5), the actual seizure of power was the easiest part of his putsch. Prayuth’s situation is considerably different in that the academy class system has become highly factionalized and the international community is likely to respond strongly to a telegraphed coup that deposes Yingluck’s elected administration.” John Cole and Steve Sciacchitano, 17 January 2014. (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-02-170114.html)
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
“We can’t beat the Thaksin regime at the ballot box with a platform that protects our own old guard interests, so we protest against elections and instead are in the streets rallying support for forming a government led by elites we appoint.”
That is not democracy.
If you want to maintain democracy and vote out the Thaksin regime, you have to outflank it. Once you have given up your old guard interests, it is easy to do.
1. Create a platform that deals with income inequality in a meaningful way.
2. Create a platform that stimulates the microeconomies in the North.
3. Create a platform that has a 21st century vision to clean tech and ease of pollution and overcrowding in Bangkok.
4. Create a platform that includes city and regional planning for both rapid and sustainable growth of economic zones outside of Bangkok.
“Thaksin is corrupt” is an old song. Get hip.
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
Anyone able to say what the family relationship between Wanina Sucharitkun and the mother of Chuan Likphai’s son Surabot is?
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
Indeed, tax avoidance would have been a powerful point to hold against him in an election.
However, to win such an election you also have to make *credible* proposals for improving voter’s lives more than the other side, and push forward leaders who can implement such proposals (not those with a history of major corruption like Suthep).
In other words, in times of economic growth, you can’t win with a purely negative campaign.
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
> Beware “ammart”, you are in grave danger of losing everything!
Ah, if it were only that simple. Big capital never loses. There might be a few old aristocrats not wielding power as they used to, and a some businessmen worth a few billion less… but rest assured, whoever is running the gov’t, none of the “ammart” will ever be wondering where their next bowl of rice is coming from, as 50% of the Thai populace do.
Let’s face it. Thaksin is not exactly a great social reformer, nor a committed corruption fighter. His opponents are obviously even less so. It’s a lose-or-lose-more situation for the people, and there’s nothing that can be done about it (in the short term).
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Everyone in Thailand knows..what is what..who is who..since we have had the political conflict for 9 years, because we are living in DtawLae Land – people in Thai society have tried to make an excuse and cover the truths. This is a problem they have the law to protect them from their actions in politics..the examples that we could see from medias… coups..funerals..bills for hospitals. If we don’t accept the facts what happen in Thailand we can not solve the problems.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
As predicted, Thailand’s Feb2nd election decided nothing and only deepened the distrust and divide between opposing camps.
The EC Commissioner estimates that the final election results could be, a big if, announced within six months.
In the meantime caretaker puppet Yingluck will have to address the growing desperation of the Thai rice farmers because of the monstrous failure of her Rice Pledge and Rotting Rice Stockpile Scheme. The Scheme is bankrupt, it is riddled with corruption, the stockpile is rotting and its quality degraded to the point that its ‘exportability’ is being eroded, shunned even by country importers. And the Thai rice farmers, hundreds of thousands of them, had still not been paid for their rice and a few (maybe more) had been driven to suicides.
The Red Shirts thuggish elements had started intimidating groups of rice farmers who rise in protests, nearly daily for several provinces by blocking roads.
—————-
At Pitsanuloke (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/391947/farmers-end-protest-in-phitsanulok)
“Mr Chatree said he would mobilise farmers across the province to permanently shut down the intersection on Friday at 10am if Mr Rapee fails to provide them with an acceptable solution by Friday. In an emotional address to protesters, Mr Chatree said both local red-shirts and community leaders tried to pressure him to end the protest, on orders from high-level officials.
The red-shirts threatened to hurt his family if he continued to lead the rally seeking money for unpaid farmers including for himself, he said.
“I am concerned about my family but I cannot just stop demanding because all our fellow farmers are in distress,” Mr Chatree said.
At one point, Mr Chatree burst into tears while addressing the crowd. A number of protesters also started crying.”
——————-
Yingluck’s nightmares are just beginning with this Rice Pledge and Rotting Stockpile scandal. Because when or while those desperate farmers start protesting in Bangkok, the NCCC will start the PM impeachment scrutiny against Yingluck for willful or criminal neglect while Chairman of the Rice Committee.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
This comparison – though frequently heard from Thais opposing Thaksin – is so ridiculous, it doesn’t deserve a reply, but it shows quite good the strange ahistorical microcosm the whistle-mob is trapped in.
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
What an insight, now everything is clear as the truth being revealed! The people of Thailand has enlightern to the truth, that they the people has the right to choose the governmdnt they want and not being led by the small self interest elites. Power to the people.
Thailand’s electorate deserves respect
Let me see if I understand you, Jim:
Claim 1. You are alleging that the amnesty bill clearing Thaksin was forced on Yingluck, and that the bill was not in Thaksin’s interest because he never wanted to come back anyway.
Claim 2. You are alleging that, because Thakin always intended to step down one day, the coup was unnecessary.
IMO anyone who knows much more than is on the ABC TV news (not difficult, that) would find both allegations to be completely ridiculous.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
“… unseat a democratically elected governmen(no matter how unsavory)”
I tried and found in wikipedia that German people in 1933 voted with 43.91% plus 7.97% for Hitler, who did many bad things. I do not understand why, and also not why so many Thai people think good of him. I do not trust what they promise when they want to win a poll. When after the poll they do too many bad things, I think it is right if those who can see it, try to stop them before it is to late.
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
One point which was not mentioned in Chan’s excellent letter was that the testimony given to the Court by the then Bank of Thailand Governor confirming that it was he, and not the Prime Minister, who was the direct supervisor of the FIDF was given in secret. This testimony was not subsequently divulged by the Court to Thaksin’s legal team.
As regards the auction price, when seeking to realise security for non performing loans, the prime responsibility for any bank or financial institution is to achieve a price that will be sufficient to clear the debt from their books. If the purchaser gets a bargain, that’s their good luck. It happens frequently in auctions of this nature.
In any event, it was the conflict of interest issue which the Court highlighted in its judgement, and the then Central Bank Governor’s testimony seemed to call that into question.
I do think however that Thaksin and his wife were reckless in pursuing this purchase. Why on earth did they need more wealth? I think it was one of several incidences where Thaksin displayed arrogance and poor judgement, and thus gave his enemies an opening to attack him.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Er you mean like the ones from Vichai N