Yet, in one respect, Vichai N, you are right that the 2010 protests were no children’s play: At that time, PM Abhisit and current protest leader Suthep used the military to kill more than 90 unarmed protesters. The Yingluck government, on the other hand, so far has shown the utmost patience and not done anything that comes near to what Abhisit/Suthep did at that time. So, you should actually be very pleased with how Yingluck has been handling the protests. And you should hope that this will remain so.
I am happy to oblige Srithanonchai. We’ve sparred a few times and my rather low opinion of your opinions/posters had not wavered …
Children’s stuff eh? Srithanonchai b/s as usual …
That latest grenade attack today at Victory Monument (28 injuries) must be keeping you entertained Srithanonchai … since you rather enjoy these toxic and malevolent children’s stuff from The Friends of Thaksin.
But I could not in sincerity join your amusement. Because I have lots of relatives and friends who heartily participate and actively join The Kamnan’s ‘Uproot’ protests.
My wife and myself had at one time last week met briefly but at very close quarters with The Kamnan himself during his Uproot walks at Thon Buri. And there are these vicious murderous mercenary bombers with lethal intentions to kill and maim the Uproot prostesters so spare me with b/s “comes at Vichai N’s cost”.
To expand Srithanonchai’s ‘children’s stuff’ horizon, here is what one fragmentary grenade could lethally accomplish:
“The M67 fragmentary hand grenade produces casualties by high velocity projection of fragments in a uniform distribution pattern. The 2.5-inch diameter steel sphere contains 6.5 ounces of high explosive and is fitted with a fuse that initiates the explosive charge. The grenade has a delay detonating device, giving the soldier 4 to 5 seconds of separation after release of the safety lever. The fragmentation hand grenade has a lethal radius of 5 meters and can produce casualties up to 15 meters, dispersing fragments as far away as 230 meters.”
One other way, unfortunately more plausible way, to look at the whole affair of all “Burma Experts” (none of whom speak Burmese with confidently full knowledge from reading the equally white people’s writing and talking to the wanna-be Whites), crowing in unison of “Kalar” meaning derogatory for the Muslim is truly for the wilful criminal purpose of inciting discord and inflaming among the hitherto peacefully coexisting communities to such violent ends the likes of which has not been seen in Burma before.
Even if Kalar is derogatory, it still does not mean to be to a Muslim. All dark color ones, as Plan B has pointed out, are termed Kalars. But that sort of fact in the “Burma Experts” eye would not look good as the very intention is to seed hatred among the people of the land they want to loot.
High time Gene Sharp/ Helvey/ Ackerman indoctrinated young, aggressive and hyperactive men in monk’s robes, Soros funded so-called 88’s and once-were-dissident journalists and variously foreign-funded we-want-our-land-just-for-ourselves groups come to their senses and see the true enemy facing all as one as evidently the enemies are so united as one.
just a few comments…
1.”The data show that rapid economic growth in the 1980s and 1990s produced sharp reductions in the level of poverty. However this trend was reversed in the second half …” but no economic data are given in Figure 1(BTW the y axes in both graphs should be labelled to make it easier for the reader to interpret the graphs without having to read the text for the axes labels)
Sorry,but I don’t take your word that there was rapid economic growth .
2.”poverty rates” not defined..
the precipitous decline in “poverty rates” 1988-1998 could be an artifact -change in definition of poverty,change in the way the data were collected.As one noted British economist once stated one should be very cautious in accepting government statistics,and especially in this case on poverty.
3.no data given on the level of household debt,stratified with reference to total household income and to region.
4.A Popperian approach would not ego amiss …erect a series of null hypotheses to determine ,in effect,were the members of the lower income groups better off(disposable income,level of debt etc) under Taksin?
Vichai N: I just love it when I can tease (yet another) political self-exposure out of you, although, admittedly, it is an empty exercise, because readers know your position only too well. Yet, sometimes, a little fun may be permitted, although it comes at your cost.
“The UDD protests in Y2010 were children’s stuff against what we are witnessing now”-Srithanonchai
You mean Srithanonchai that those firing Red/Black Shirts setting off bombs nearly every week, grenade launchers lethally fired, assault rifles employed, pointed sticks and the arson finale that gutted 38 buildings including half of Rachaprasong area, were Red children at play in Y2010?
Oh there were children certainly used with full malice by the Red Shirts during their rampage in Y2010, sample:
Red shirts exposing very young boys to deadly risks during mayhem:
“ On May 16, there was an uncompleted building near the Din Daeng barricade, next to a tall hotel. I saw two young boys wearing motorcycle helmets come to the front [of the fighting], and told them to go away because it was too dangerous, but they didn’t listen to me. There were some leaders of the barricades and they went to talk to the boys. Then I saw the boys helping to prepare the petrol bombs. Then the smallest of the boys, he looked about nine or ten, he came forward carrying a bunch of petrol bombs and he talked to one of the leaders. Then the smallest boy ran towards the uncompleted building in front of the barricade, hiding in the bushes as he went. I tried to follow him but I was too big to get in there. I lost sight of him, but an hour later there was a fire on the 10th floor of the building. He had walked all the way over there, then up, and started the fire. He then came back the same way and the same Red Shirt guy gave him a few hundred baht [worth a few US dollars]. I asked the boy why he had done this, and he said, laughing, ‘That’s my job, my job.’” – HRW interview with photojournalist Masaro Goto, Bangkok, June 11, 2010
Is above what you meant Srithanonchai by Red shirts ‘children’s stuff’?
And btw, it appears that the Red Shirts or Friends of Thaksin ‘nearly daily bombing campaig’ of Y2010 memories is coming back. Could be Srithanonchai’s version of Red Shirts doing their ‘children stuff’ throwing grenades indiscriminately at the big crowds of peaceful ‘Uproot’ prosters.
When I read the title “Thoughts of a pro-government leader” I suddenly erupted with uncontrollable laughter. And for a few seconds, I could NOT explain to myself why.
Aaah! The title is very funny because nearly every article at New Mandala about Thailand, if anyone wants to do the aritmetic, is pro-Yingluck/Thaksin (or ‘pro-government’ adjective for subtlety?), pro-Red Shirts, anti-Thai monarchy and very definitely anti-Democrat Party.
Maybe Andrew Walker or Nicholas Farrelly could explain ….
(btw, yes after I read the title, I stopped reading).
[…] of a pro-government leader Thoughts of a pro-government leader Mark Inkey Mark Inkey is a freelance journalist currently in Chiang Mai, Thailand 19 January 2014 […]
Sorry, Peter. What is really tiresome is the sole and persistent interpretation of the term kalar as derogatory which has made it ‘gospel truth’ in Western media. How that came about I won’t waste my time arguing. And I don’t care how long you’ve lived in Burma or if you were born there in Yadanabon Naypyidaw a hundred years before me.
Derogatory entirely depends on the context and inflection used when you say it like when your vexed mother might say, “Peter Cohen!”.
Ka-la (soft first syllable, short creaky stress on the second) is time/period, whereas ka-lar (stress on second) is Indians and later Europeans of whatever colour, religion or ethnicity. Burmese of course never get the two mixed up.
Only outsiders and those who have only a superficial knowledge of the language cannot say it right. Romanisation is all over the shop mine included so when you get it through English second hand there’s scope for confusion and mistakes.
India (kalabyi) and Indians, our close neighbour and where Buddhism and a lot of our cultural traditions came from, retain the original term.
Gyi is just a qualifier for big, great or old. The old Indian teashop owner is still kalagyi as was Abdul Razak. The noodleshop Chinese is still Tayoke gyi.
Historically only India became formally Eindiya naingan to distinguish it from the other kalapyu (white kalar) European nations but China remains Tayoke naingan. There just is no other word in the Burmese language for either of them. Ayagyi and Paukpaw are nicknames for Indian and Chinese like you might call an Irishman Paddy.
If we want to be really derogatory or abusive, believe me, we don’t pull any punches since there will be plenty of qualifiers, prefixed or suffixed to go with the unmistakable tone of voice.
Well when a Cohen says a son of Malcolm Mitchell and Charlotte Mendelsoln from Georgia is not jewish, apologies! Any news about a Soros who tried via one O’ Brien to control Burma’s communication lines and still trying and funded and funding the so-called 88 group, and worked along with NED, a CIA front, to incite and conduct the wonderful “Color Revolutions” around the world? One particular wonderful Color Revolution of 2007 in Burma did result in deaths and sufferings of hundreds of innocent people including monks.
Of course it would be very high as even red shirts would be wanting to know first hand what turn he might take and how he comes across … choice of words can be quite revealing like “we won’t give up” sounds like already being half the way at that point … Suthep knows that he will rot in jail so he will keep going until getting arrested no matter how little sense it would make to drag a lost fight … or he wants to become a martyr in his own thinking?
Very reveaöing that u dont argue TO THE POINTS made above … u only state ur crazy numbers again, even though clearly disproven by the lack of any photos showing more than 10.000 people in one place … even your stated hundret thousand is next to poor compared to the 40 Million voters majority … i am interested in the numbers of swelling crowds of really peaceful white shirts …
It is not a “popular people’s revolt,” it is an attempt to perform a civilian coup d’état. The UDD protests in 2010 were children’s stuff against what we are witnessing now.
Proof? So bring it up … It is ALWAYS a wise thing to ask QUI BONO? Who profits? Sutheps only chance to win now would be to create utmost terror … so again: QUI BONO?
Interesting article. The image of a Thai population of deaf mutes is an apt analogy. It is totally impossible to analyze Thailand’s political problems (and others) as a result of being forced to hold non-conversations.
Like going to family therapy and being disallowed from mentioning the head of the household.
It is my understanding that there is no capital gains tax in Thailand so I wonder what tax was to be paid on the share transaction. Can someone enlighten us with facts rather than rhetoric?
Not all Indian Muslims in Burma are better off than Bamar, and the conversation had nothing to do with Chinese in Burma.
Your deflections are tiresome and the facts remain the same, Kala is sometimes used as a derogatory term by some Bamar in Burma against South Asian and Westerners, and I have known this since before you were even born, when I was lived in Rangoon with the British prior to leaving for Malaya. I was very young, but not so young that I did not know what “Kala” meant, when used by a Englishman or by a Burman (Bamar). So, yes, you are ignorant of your own culture by your own feeble admission. And my Bamar friends
have confirmed my definition of “Kala” and
one admitted using the term a few months ago
against someone he didn’t like (an Indian)
who he claims took money from him.
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Thoughts of a pro-government leader
According to this:
http://sherrings.com/Capital-Gains-Income—Personal-Income-Tax.php
Sales of shares that are traded on the SET by an individual are exempt from tax.
The sale was perfectly legal.
From what I can find, the actual objection of the Democrat party was simply that Thaksin sold a national asset to “foreigners”.
Interesting that they didn’t make any such fuss when DTAC was sold.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
Yet, in one respect, Vichai N, you are right that the 2010 protests were no children’s play: At that time, PM Abhisit and current protest leader Suthep used the military to kill more than 90 unarmed protesters. The Yingluck government, on the other hand, so far has shown the utmost patience and not done anything that comes near to what Abhisit/Suthep did at that time. So, you should actually be very pleased with how Yingluck has been handling the protests. And you should hope that this will remain so.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
I am happy to oblige Srithanonchai. We’ve sparred a few times and my rather low opinion of your opinions/posters had not wavered …
Children’s stuff eh? Srithanonchai b/s as usual …
That latest grenade attack today at Victory Monument (28 injuries) must be keeping you entertained Srithanonchai … since you rather enjoy these toxic and malevolent children’s stuff from The Friends of Thaksin.
But I could not in sincerity join your amusement. Because I have lots of relatives and friends who heartily participate and actively join The Kamnan’s ‘Uproot’ protests.
My wife and myself had at one time last week met briefly but at very close quarters with The Kamnan himself during his Uproot walks at Thon Buri. And there are these vicious murderous mercenary bombers with lethal intentions to kill and maim the Uproot prostesters so spare me with b/s “comes at Vichai N’s cost”.
To expand Srithanonchai’s ‘children’s stuff’ horizon, here is what one fragmentary grenade could lethally accomplish:
“The M67 fragmentary hand grenade produces casualties by high velocity projection of fragments in a uniform distribution pattern. The 2.5-inch diameter steel sphere contains 6.5 ounces of high explosive and is fitted with a fuse that initiates the explosive charge. The grenade has a delay detonating device, giving the soldier 4 to 5 seconds of separation after release of the safety lever. The fragmentation hand grenade has a lethal radius of 5 meters and can produce casualties up to 15 meters, dispersing fragments as far away as 230 meters.”
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
That was very kind and truly instructive lesson.
One other way, unfortunately more plausible way, to look at the whole affair of all “Burma Experts” (none of whom speak Burmese with confidently full knowledge from reading the equally white people’s writing and talking to the wanna-be Whites), crowing in unison of “Kalar” meaning derogatory for the Muslim is truly for the wilful criminal purpose of inciting discord and inflaming among the hitherto peacefully coexisting communities to such violent ends the likes of which has not been seen in Burma before.
Even if Kalar is derogatory, it still does not mean to be to a Muslim. All dark color ones, as Plan B has pointed out, are termed Kalars. But that sort of fact in the “Burma Experts” eye would not look good as the very intention is to seed hatred among the people of the land they want to loot.
High time Gene Sharp/ Helvey/ Ackerman indoctrinated young, aggressive and hyperactive men in monk’s robes, Soros funded so-called 88’s and once-were-dissident journalists and variously foreign-funded we-want-our-land-just-for-ourselves groups come to their senses and see the true enemy facing all as one as evidently the enemies are so united as one.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
I think its rather about what is right, principally, and what is wrong. Just anti something is too shallow in this case.
Thaksinomics, poverty and inequality
just a few comments…
1.”The data show that rapid economic growth in the 1980s and 1990s produced sharp reductions in the level of poverty. However this trend was reversed in the second half …” but no economic data are given in Figure 1(BTW the y axes in both graphs should be labelled to make it easier for the reader to interpret the graphs without having to read the text for the axes labels)
Sorry,but I don’t take your word that there was rapid economic growth .
2.”poverty rates” not defined..
the precipitous decline in “poverty rates” 1988-1998 could be an artifact -change in definition of poverty,change in the way the data were collected.As one noted British economist once stated one should be very cautious in accepting government statistics,and especially in this case on poverty.
3.no data given on the level of household debt,stratified with reference to total household income and to region.
4.A Popperian approach would not ego amiss …erect a series of null hypotheses to determine ,in effect,were the members of the lower income groups better off(disposable income,level of debt etc) under Taksin?
The shutdown: In honor of NN
Vichai N: I just love it when I can tease (yet another) political self-exposure out of you, although, admittedly, it is an empty exercise, because readers know your position only too well. Yet, sometimes, a little fun may be permitted, although it comes at your cost.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
“The UDD protests in Y2010 were children’s stuff against what we are witnessing now”-Srithanonchai
You mean Srithanonchai that those firing Red/Black Shirts setting off bombs nearly every week, grenade launchers lethally fired, assault rifles employed, pointed sticks and the arson finale that gutted 38 buildings including half of Rachaprasong area, were Red children at play in Y2010?
Oh there were children certainly used with full malice by the Red Shirts during their rampage in Y2010, sample:
Red shirts exposing very young boys to deadly risks during mayhem:
“ On May 16, there was an uncompleted building near the Din Daeng barricade, next to a tall hotel. I saw two young boys wearing motorcycle helmets come to the front [of the fighting], and told them to go away because it was too dangerous, but they didn’t listen to me. There were some leaders of the barricades and they went to talk to the boys. Then I saw the boys helping to prepare the petrol bombs. Then the smallest of the boys, he looked about nine or ten, he came forward carrying a bunch of petrol bombs and he talked to one of the leaders. Then the smallest boy ran towards the uncompleted building in front of the barricade, hiding in the bushes as he went. I tried to follow him but I was too big to get in there. I lost sight of him, but an hour later there was a fire on the 10th floor of the building. He had walked all the way over there, then up, and started the fire. He then came back the same way and the same Red Shirt guy gave him a few hundred baht [worth a few US dollars]. I asked the boy why he had done this, and he said, laughing, ‘That’s my job, my job.’” – HRW interview with photojournalist Masaro Goto, Bangkok, June 11, 2010
Is above what you meant Srithanonchai by Red shirts ‘children’s stuff’?
And btw, it appears that the Red Shirts or Friends of Thaksin ‘nearly daily bombing campaig’ of Y2010 memories is coming back. Could be Srithanonchai’s version of Red Shirts doing their ‘children stuff’ throwing grenades indiscriminately at the big crowds of peaceful ‘Uproot’ prosters.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
When I read the title “Thoughts of a pro-government leader” I suddenly erupted with uncontrollable laughter. And for a few seconds, I could NOT explain to myself why.
Aaah! The title is very funny because nearly every article at New Mandala about Thailand, if anyone wants to do the aritmetic, is pro-Yingluck/Thaksin (or ‘pro-government’ adjective for subtlety?), pro-Red Shirts, anti-Thai monarchy and very definitely anti-Democrat Party.
Maybe Andrew Walker or Nicholas Farrelly could explain ….
(btw, yes after I read the title, I stopped reading).
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
[…] of a pro-government leader Thoughts of a pro-government leader Mark Inkey Mark Inkey is a freelance journalist currently in Chiang Mai, Thailand 19 January 2014 […]
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Sorry, Peter. What is really tiresome is the sole and persistent interpretation of the term kalar as derogatory which has made it ‘gospel truth’ in Western media. How that came about I won’t waste my time arguing. And I don’t care how long you’ve lived in Burma or if you were born there in Yadanabon Naypyidaw a hundred years before me.
Derogatory entirely depends on the context and inflection used when you say it like when your vexed mother might say, “Peter Cohen!”.
Ka-la (soft first syllable, short creaky stress on the second) is time/period, whereas ka-lar (stress on second) is Indians and later Europeans of whatever colour, religion or ethnicity. Burmese of course never get the two mixed up.
Only outsiders and those who have only a superficial knowledge of the language cannot say it right. Romanisation is all over the shop mine included so when you get it through English second hand there’s scope for confusion and mistakes.
India (kalabyi) and Indians, our close neighbour and where Buddhism and a lot of our cultural traditions came from, retain the original term.
Gyi is just a qualifier for big, great or old. The old Indian teashop owner is still kalagyi as was Abdul Razak. The noodleshop Chinese is still Tayoke gyi.
Historically only India became formally Eindiya naingan to distinguish it from the other kalapyu (white kalar) European nations but China remains Tayoke naingan. There just is no other word in the Burmese language for either of them. Ayagyi and Paukpaw are nicknames for Indian and Chinese like you might call an Irishman Paddy.
If we want to be really derogatory or abusive, believe me, we don’t pull any punches since there will be plenty of qualifiers, prefixed or suffixed to go with the unmistakable tone of voice.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Well when a Cohen says a son of Malcolm Mitchell and Charlotte Mendelsoln from Georgia is not jewish, apologies! Any news about a Soros who tried via one O’ Brien to control Burma’s communication lines and still trying and funded and funding the so-called 88 group, and worked along with NED, a CIA front, to incite and conduct the wonderful “Color Revolutions” around the world? One particular wonderful Color Revolution of 2007 in Burma did result in deaths and sufferings of hundreds of innocent people including monks.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
Of course it would be very high as even red shirts would be wanting to know first hand what turn he might take and how he comes across … choice of words can be quite revealing like “we won’t give up” sounds like already being half the way at that point … Suthep knows that he will rot in jail so he will keep going until getting arrested no matter how little sense it would make to drag a lost fight … or he wants to become a martyr in his own thinking?
The shutdown: In honor of NN
Very reveaöing that u dont argue TO THE POINTS made above … u only state ur crazy numbers again, even though clearly disproven by the lack of any photos showing more than 10.000 people in one place … even your stated hundret thousand is next to poor compared to the 40 Million voters majority … i am interested in the numbers of swelling crowds of really peaceful white shirts …
The shutdown: In honor of NN
It is not a “popular people’s revolt,” it is an attempt to perform a civilian coup d’état. The UDD protests in 2010 were children’s stuff against what we are witnessing now.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
This is clearly more like 300.000 😉
The shutdown: In honor of NN
Proof? So bring it up … It is ALWAYS a wise thing to ask QUI BONO? Who profits? Sutheps only chance to win now would be to create utmost terror … so again: QUI BONO?
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Interesting article. The image of a Thai population of deaf mutes is an apt analogy. It is totally impossible to analyze Thailand’s political problems (and others) as a result of being forced to hold non-conversations.
Like going to family therapy and being disallowed from mentioning the head of the household.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
It is my understanding that there is no capital gains tax in Thailand so I wonder what tax was to be paid on the share transaction. Can someone enlighten us with facts rather than rhetoric?
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Plan B,
Not all Indian Muslims in Burma are better off than Bamar, and the conversation had nothing to do with Chinese in Burma.
Your deflections are tiresome and the facts remain the same, Kala is sometimes used as a derogatory term by some Bamar in Burma against South Asian and Westerners, and I have known this since before you were even born, when I was lived in Rangoon with the British prior to leaving for Malaya. I was very young, but not so young that I did not know what “Kala” meant, when used by a Englishman or by a Burman (Bamar). So, yes, you are ignorant of your own culture by your own feeble admission. And my Bamar friends
have confirmed my definition of “Kala” and
one admitted using the term a few months ago
against someone he didn’t like (an Indian)
who he claims took money from him.
Goodbye.