You have no reason to be ashamed of being Malaysian and a Bumiputera. You should be proud to be a decent human being who treats his fellow humans with the same respect as you would want from them.
It is your politicians and religious leaders who should be ashamed for dividing the nation and alienating its own citizens.
As someone who has been in and out of Malaysia for the past 20 years, and now make it my home, I too have reservations with the direction it is taking. My personal experience is only good, the Malays are generally kind hearted and generous…..but unfortunately they are easily led by incompetent politicians and so called religious scholars. As the article implies, this has all happened recently and purposely for the benefit of those in power. There needs to be serious discussions free from fear of prosecution to ensure there are no “Arab Spring” type repercussions.
Nomi (30.1.1),
The lack of hate coming from the Thaksin side, compared with the torrent of it from the absolute-monarchists, is something we have all observed. I wouldn’t put it down to any kind of superhuman dignity on the part of the Thaksinites, so much as a strategy for staying out of prison and not precipitating a coup/bloodbath. Nevertheless, it does come over as far greater dignity than that shown by the appalling absolute-monarchist agitators, and I think that will be a big factor in the elections (if they are not sabotaged completely).
Ondrej: you are not wrong. And I would love more in-depth discussion in this area too. AW?
I remember when details of the 97 constitution was known, family dinner conversation revolves around consolidation of political parties (and of power under guise of democracy), and which party will be chosen as ‘the other’ to democrat party. We thought then the 97 C was designed to favor consolidation into big parties, and pave way for the rise of a 2 party system in Thailand.
I agree with Tom re the ‘insidious thing’ for judicial control over potential election outcome. Then again, the Constitution was designed by people with vested interest and politicians, was it not?
Sorry, the line should read:
The picking of one very corrupted person from one side, by another also very corrupted group from another side, would send out a very wrong, and indeed ominous message.
Apologies.
ps: I would also say, if one is truely sincere about cleaning up corruption, first show us you clean your own house. The problem is not that we believe Thaksin is not corrupt, or corruption is cool. The problem is, we just find it difficult to believe in Suthep or Prayuth’s claims of punishing perpetrators when neither offered to do unto themselves what they want to do to others.
Re: if Thaksin is officially convicted for corruption, wouldn’t that sent a strong message to other coruppted people to watch out….
Ans: Actually, no, it would not.
In truth, the message sent would be: only ‘us’ are allowed to be corrupted. Either you corrupt with us or we jail you.
For your logic to work, then every single (at least major) corruption person will first have to be convicted and jailed.That will include Suthep, Banyaat, Banharn, Snoh, Prem, Sarit… and clearly all high ranking army personels for a start. And then Thaksin. Now, this will sent a super clear message to all future players to not be corrupt, because ‘we-the-people-are-going-to-get-you-no-matter-who-backs-you’.
Picking on one very corrupted person only from the other also very corrupt side would send out a very wrong, and indeed ominous message. In the long run, it will increase tremendously, corruption not only in financial terms, but also in brute power display. Thats when you get the likes of Marcos, Suharto, etc that you named.
Thaksin’s agenda, I think is dead clear: Be PM, improve Thailand enough just so he can present a presentable enough image to launch himself into leading senior statesman like LKY, and if poosible a player on an even larger stage leveraging on the ASEAN platform.
Hi all I have sumthing go share, I think the governing heads knows all this religion conflict are just the propaganda , and they actually know what is right and what they are doing is wrong .. But… I guess they have no choice but to pull this cards and trow them down for power and followers , manipulating people to feel hopeless and fear of loosing power ” fear does not create curruption , but fear of loosing power is the otherwise .. Lets face if any other ethnic were to majorities I’m Malaysia I bet it would have been the same thing .. You dont need to be wise to see that the government is keeping us uneducated and shallow keeping us in fear to control us even selling Rm 30 for a g for Internet the souce of knowledge .. That’s like the oldest trick of dictatorship. But I’m very glad that some Malaysia woke up and see.please not focus on the surface of the problem guys .. It’s deep they need this kinda conflict to win followers , I suggest we show kindness to all and come back together on our own and the rest will follow back to kampong spirit .. God pls bless my homeland
If you really want “what’s good for The Country”, install me as the President (not PM). I am non-partisan and very “Democratic” (your definition of democracy anyway)
Writing such an elaborate, logical argument would most likely be lost on someone like Ibrahim. Fanatical disposition coupled with severe insecurity usually fuddles one’s mind.
To a fanatic, his / her is the only right course, the rest of the world are out of step.
I think the elitist, still think they can go back to the “good old days” of ripping off the poor and have an endless supply of “cheap” girls from Isaan for their brothels! – forgot to mention the “below poverty line” prices CP food impose on the farmers.
Interesting, nobody seems able to define who constitutes the “Thaksin regime”, how they will be dealt with exactly or how the elite will deal with the next contender.
So here’s an easier question: After you overthrow the elected government, will you nullify the fruits of Thaksinism? Will the 30-baht health care plan, OTOP, and all the rest go into the garbage can? Will you merely disenfranchise the majority of your fellow citizens, or will you take the food out of their mouth as well?
The Queen is also quite sick. The Crown Prince is the heir apparent, but there are circumstances which might cause someone else to step up, assuming there are those who would want that to happen. It’s in the Thai Constitution.
If one so esteemed, by Malaysians, as the Tunku (‘Bapak Malaysia’) seemed not to be particularly perturbed by eating ham sandwiches in London 40 years ago, then non-Muslim Malaysians today should neither be perturbed in using the word “Allah” during prayers or in writing. Who is the final arbiter of human fate and human frailty, ourselves or the Creator ?
The link between ourselves and the Creator is our soul and not our government
nor or politicians. Religion must be left to the individual, their conscience, and their personal relationship with God. The best thing that could happen to Malaysia and Islam in Malaysia is to eliminate Shari’a Law Courts which are political impediments to
the individualisation of religious practice
and faith, otherwise (were he alive today), the Tunku might very well find himself in gaol, which would certainly be Malaysia’s loss.
On Ondrej: You are quite right that because one party has developed the capacity to win elections, the other has its focus on as you say “election subsystem” (one might call it as well horizontal constrains of governance. Why did the other party not develop or even try to develop any capacity to win elections?
On Tom Hoy: The court rulings are kind of strange. So far I have not been able to comprehend why a legislatie initiative that is not in line with the constitution is coruption. You are right like Ondrej that these “cheks and balances” are applied as political means by the party unable to win. Here the question is, why do the courts ally with that party? I think we have to shift the perspective a bit. Since the late 90th the Democrat Party is the political arm of the non-military elites. With the 2007 constitution checks and balances were established to allow the elite to control politics by using legal means to stage a coup d’etat. This is why no military coup is needed anymore. In fact, the elite is sceptical about the hard to control military and prefers to use Suthep on the streets to have a facade of popular support (democracy), and the courts as the instrument to maintain legality of the coup. Use the CC and NACC as the new version of tanks, as these can not be controlled by the military!
Vichai N and Matt Owen Rees – why don’t you kids simply grow up ? Andrew MacGregor Marshall is ONLY by his own admission – is ONLY publishing a draft. Are you too daft to even realise that ?
The technology may have been improved with the advent of constructed terminology such as the “Super-Sandwich” technique and patents issued on the supposedly novel royal rain-making invention (see Tukkae’s post above). But has the efficacy and results actually improved since the 1970s I wonder? Have there been any scientific and independent studies conducted to demonstrate the technique’s effectiveness under the conditions they are applied? And what about the cost/benefit ratio of the programme, which a few years ago was employing Royal Thai Air force jets for cloud-seeding operations. In other words, is there any evidence the rainmaking programme is worth the reported one billion baht per year it costed in a 2005 Asian Times article? I would have thought the wide open plains of Isaan the least likely place for this technology to succeed. Is it really “good for Thailand” or just another popular royal myth sold to a rain and miracle-thirsty public?
I appreciate your input, as I am sure many other true Malaysians do. However, I must stress that you should NOT be ashamed of being a Muslim, Malay or otherwise, because it is not a racist or religious issue at hand.
In fact, this was a non-issue until recent psycho fanatical selfish leaders (of our wonderful country) decided to dis-illusion, confuse and fool the gullible into believing that there really is a problem.
Hats off to you for taking a stand and it is those like you that keep us full of hope in one day making beautiful Malaysia like it once was only 20 years ago! You help make a difference, Keera!
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A Malaysian Inquisition?
Keera,
You have no reason to be ashamed of being Malaysian and a Bumiputera. You should be proud to be a decent human being who treats his fellow humans with the same respect as you would want from them.
It is your politicians and religious leaders who should be ashamed for dividing the nation and alienating its own citizens.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
As someone who has been in and out of Malaysia for the past 20 years, and now make it my home, I too have reservations with the direction it is taking. My personal experience is only good, the Malays are generally kind hearted and generous…..but unfortunately they are easily led by incompetent politicians and so called religious scholars. As the article implies, this has all happened recently and purposely for the benefit of those in power. There needs to be serious discussions free from fear of prosecution to ensure there are no “Arab Spring” type repercussions.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Nomi (30.1.1),
The lack of hate coming from the Thaksin side, compared with the torrent of it from the absolute-monarchists, is something we have all observed. I wouldn’t put it down to any kind of superhuman dignity on the part of the Thaksinites, so much as a strategy for staying out of prison and not precipitating a coup/bloodbath. Nevertheless, it does come over as far greater dignity than that shown by the appalling absolute-monarchist agitators, and I think that will be a big factor in the elections (if they are not sabotaged completely).
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Ondrej: you are not wrong. And I would love more in-depth discussion in this area too. AW?
I remember when details of the 97 constitution was known, family dinner conversation revolves around consolidation of political parties (and of power under guise of democracy), and which party will be chosen as ‘the other’ to democrat party. We thought then the 97 C was designed to favor consolidation into big parties, and pave way for the rise of a 2 party system in Thailand.
I agree with Tom re the ‘insidious thing’ for judicial control over potential election outcome. Then again, the Constitution was designed by people with vested interest and politicians, was it not?
The Little India riot – another view
The Per Capita GNP of Singapore is
US$ 43,000 today. I wonder what the per capital income of the workers who rioted on that day is?
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Sorry, the line should read:
The picking of one very corrupted person from one side, by another also very corrupted group from another side, would send out a very wrong, and indeed ominous message.
Apologies.
ps: I would also say, if one is truely sincere about cleaning up corruption, first show us you clean your own house. The problem is not that we believe Thaksin is not corrupt, or corruption is cool. The problem is, we just find it difficult to believe in Suthep or Prayuth’s claims of punishing perpetrators when neither offered to do unto themselves what they want to do to others.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Re: if Thaksin is officially convicted for corruption, wouldn’t that sent a strong message to other coruppted people to watch out….
Ans: Actually, no, it would not.
In truth, the message sent would be: only ‘us’ are allowed to be corrupted. Either you corrupt with us or we jail you.
For your logic to work, then every single (at least major) corruption person will first have to be convicted and jailed.That will include Suthep, Banyaat, Banharn, Snoh, Prem, Sarit… and clearly all high ranking army personels for a start. And then Thaksin. Now, this will sent a super clear message to all future players to not be corrupt, because ‘we-the-people-are-going-to-get-you-no-matter-who-backs-you’.
Picking on one very corrupted person only from the other also very corrupt side would send out a very wrong, and indeed ominous message. In the long run, it will increase tremendously, corruption not only in financial terms, but also in brute power display. Thats when you get the likes of Marcos, Suharto, etc that you named.
Thaksin’s agenda, I think is dead clear: Be PM, improve Thailand enough just so he can present a presentable enough image to launch himself into leading senior statesman like LKY, and if poosible a player on an even larger stage leveraging on the ASEAN platform.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Hi all I have sumthing go share, I think the governing heads knows all this religion conflict are just the propaganda , and they actually know what is right and what they are doing is wrong .. But… I guess they have no choice but to pull this cards and trow them down for power and followers , manipulating people to feel hopeless and fear of loosing power ” fear does not create curruption , but fear of loosing power is the otherwise .. Lets face if any other ethnic were to majorities I’m Malaysia I bet it would have been the same thing .. You dont need to be wise to see that the government is keeping us uneducated and shallow keeping us in fear to control us even selling Rm 30 for a g for Internet the souce of knowledge .. That’s like the oldest trick of dictatorship. But I’m very glad that some Malaysia woke up and see.please not focus on the surface of the problem guys .. It’s deep they need this kinda conflict to win followers , I suggest we show kindness to all and come back together on our own and the rest will follow back to kampong spirit .. God pls bless my homeland
Another big weekend for Thailand
If you really want “what’s good for The Country”, install me as the President (not PM). I am non-partisan and very “Democratic” (your definition of democracy anyway)
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Writing such an elaborate, logical argument would most likely be lost on someone like Ibrahim. Fanatical disposition coupled with severe insecurity usually fuddles one’s mind.
To a fanatic, his / her is the only right course, the rest of the world are out of step.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
I think the elitist, still think they can go back to the “good old days” of ripping off the poor and have an endless supply of “cheap” girls from Isaan for their brothels! – forgot to mention the “below poverty line” prices CP food impose on the farmers.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Interesting, nobody seems able to define who constitutes the “Thaksin regime”, how they will be dealt with exactly or how the elite will deal with the next contender.
So here’s an easier question: After you overthrow the elected government, will you nullify the fruits of Thaksinism? Will the 30-baht health care plan, OTOP, and all the rest go into the garbage can? Will you merely disenfranchise the majority of your fellow citizens, or will you take the food out of their mouth as well?
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
The Queen is also quite sick. The Crown Prince is the heir apparent, but there are circumstances which might cause someone else to step up, assuming there are those who would want that to happen. It’s in the Thai Constitution.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
If one so esteemed, by Malaysians, as the Tunku (‘Bapak Malaysia’) seemed not to be particularly perturbed by eating ham sandwiches in London 40 years ago, then non-Muslim Malaysians today should neither be perturbed in using the word “Allah” during prayers or in writing. Who is the final arbiter of human fate and human frailty, ourselves or the Creator ?
The link between ourselves and the Creator is our soul and not our government
nor or politicians. Religion must be left to the individual, their conscience, and their personal relationship with God. The best thing that could happen to Malaysia and Islam in Malaysia is to eliminate Shari’a Law Courts which are political impediments to
the individualisation of religious practice
and faith, otherwise (were he alive today), the Tunku might very well find himself in gaol, which would certainly be Malaysia’s loss.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
On Ondrej: You are quite right that because one party has developed the capacity to win elections, the other has its focus on as you say “election subsystem” (one might call it as well horizontal constrains of governance. Why did the other party not develop or even try to develop any capacity to win elections?
On Tom Hoy: The court rulings are kind of strange. So far I have not been able to comprehend why a legislatie initiative that is not in line with the constitution is coruption. You are right like Ondrej that these “cheks and balances” are applied as political means by the party unable to win. Here the question is, why do the courts ally with that party? I think we have to shift the perspective a bit. Since the late 90th the Democrat Party is the political arm of the non-military elites. With the 2007 constitution checks and balances were established to allow the elite to control politics by using legal means to stage a coup d’etat. This is why no military coup is needed anymore. In fact, the elite is sceptical about the hard to control military and prefers to use Suthep on the streets to have a facade of popular support (democracy), and the courts as the instrument to maintain legality of the coup. Use the CC and NACC as the new version of tanks, as these can not be controlled by the military!
Another big weekend for Thailand
Vichai N and Matt Owen Rees – why don’t you kids simply grow up ? Andrew MacGregor Marshall is ONLY by his own admission – is ONLY publishing a draft. Are you too daft to even realise that ?
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Religion: A poor man’s strength; a rich man’s weakness; and (dread-dread) a politician’s tool.
Royal rain-making in the news
The technology may have been improved with the advent of constructed terminology such as the “Super-Sandwich” technique and patents issued on the supposedly novel royal rain-making invention (see Tukkae’s post above). But has the efficacy and results actually improved since the 1970s I wonder? Have there been any scientific and independent studies conducted to demonstrate the technique’s effectiveness under the conditions they are applied? And what about the cost/benefit ratio of the programme, which a few years ago was employing Royal Thai Air force jets for cloud-seeding operations. In other words, is there any evidence the rainmaking programme is worth the reported one billion baht per year it costed in a 2005 Asian Times article? I would have thought the wide open plains of Isaan the least likely place for this technology to succeed. Is it really “good for Thailand” or just another popular royal myth sold to a rain and miracle-thirsty public?
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Great write-up Melati Timur! Where can I find more writings?
A Malaysian Inquisition?
HI Keera,
I appreciate your input, as I am sure many other true Malaysians do. However, I must stress that you should NOT be ashamed of being a Muslim, Malay or otherwise, because it is not a racist or religious issue at hand.
In fact, this was a non-issue until recent psycho fanatical selfish leaders (of our wonderful country) decided to dis-illusion, confuse and fool the gullible into believing that there really is a problem.
Hats off to you for taking a stand and it is those like you that keep us full of hope in one day making beautiful Malaysia like it once was only 20 years ago! You help make a difference, Keera!