I’m curious about the dismissal of feminism as a factor in women seeking ordination in Thailand: ” … it would be too tempting to interpret what Dhammakamala Bhikkhuni told me during our interview as an expression of feminism.” I wonder if readers can comment on that at all. It seems to me that both Dhammakamala and her mother show strong feminist sentiments in their lives, not always expressed as such (but sometimes), and just the overt claim to monkhood — that’s not a feminist act? At any rate, I’d like to hear some talk about that.
Still no clarification from Andrew MacGregor Marshall’s two nos to my two questions?
I suspect that Mr. Marshall is being manipulative … attempting to earwig … with his suggestion that the rift between the monarchy and Thaksin was because, to use Andrew MacGregor Marshall’s words ” … was that Bhumibol was trying to control his son by restricting his income, and Thaksin enabled Vajiralongkorn to circumvent this period.” (pure earwigging from Marshall).
The rift between the Thai monarchy and Thaksin was because Thaksin Shinawatra, while Thai Prime Minister, deliberately/maliciously embroiled the Thai Prince in that sordid criminal enterprise (to skim the National Lottery) by gifting the Crown Prince with hundreds of millions of Baht not from Thaksin’s personal funds, but directly from the National Lottery via his bagman the Deputy Police Chief Chumphol.
It is well known that many wealthy Thais gave/give substantial ‘gifts’ to the Crown Prince, Mr. Marshall. While the Crown Prince was studying abroad (Australia if I am not mistaken), he stayed or roomed together with young Niphon Promphan (scion of a very wealthy family and currently brother in law to Kamnam Thep), and Niphon & mother gave ‘generously’ to the young Crown Prince, is the story told around Bangkok long time ago. None of the gifts from the wealthy to the Crown Prince were tainted with such malice and as criminal, as the Thaksin millions of bahts gifts straight rifled the National Lottery. Lese majeste yes. Criminal yes.
And yet … the malevolent gall of Thaksin persisted (persists to this day) that he deserves a royal pardon, imagine that. And not getting that royal pardon, Thaksin Shinawatra orchestrated, together with General Khattiya and his police-men-in-black abettors, the bombings/killings/arsons of year 2010 out of spite and desperation.
And yes Andrew Marshall MacGregor you are earwigging again with your story that the Red Shirts scorn the monarchy but loves the Crown Prince.
The spike in 2010 was entirely Abhisits budget. And if you believe wikileaks, it was the cost of his populist policies. The data demonstrates that the Dems are actually the ones who are putting Thailand into debt.
Vichai, please take some time to read back through the responses from the likes of Nomi and Robert and compare them to your own. While Nomi, Robert and others orchestrate their thoughts through articulate explanation of their opinions backed up with some historical reference and what appears to be a balanced frame of mind.
You repeatedly resort to words like ‘dogs, servants, goats and yap yaps’ to describe anyone and it seems everyone who does not comply with your extremely narrow, poorly researched and tunnel visioned view of the political situation in Thailand.
While your ongoing shallow and vindictive commentary is doing an an amazing job of exposing the intellectual, ethical and civil deficiencies of those who support the fascist movement in Thailand, I have to ask you Khun Vichai, if you truly believe that the majority of Thais (meaning those who clearly despise the democrats due to their actions and vote them out repeatedly) are goats, yap yaps, servants and dogs, don’t you think it’s time to move to a place where the populace are happy to behave as voiceless dogs under a small minority?
You could perhaps start a small commune on a rubber plantation in Surat Thani with Khun Suthep and co. That might sound a bit extreme when you first consider it, but seriously Khun Vichai, it’s time to start thinking out of the box, because quite frankly, it’s going to take a lot of hard work, repression, suffering and senseless deaths to force all the ‘dogs’ and ‘goats’ in Thailand to give up on the concept of democracy and one man one vote.
What’s the Gini co-eff. been doing? Per capita improvements may be going largely to one segment of the populace (as pointed out above) which would explain the reaction against seemingly successful economic policies.
Thailand is in the grip of a parliamentary dictatorship so of course politics is dysfunctional. But politically,despite the dearth of well-educated and well informed voters, there is space for other voices and most of them are making a ‘now or never’ stand for a new deal for everyone.
The histrionics which Suthep gradually works up to are part of the show which mass politics requires to motivate the electorate and are not always to be taken at face value. Surely that should be obvious?
That’s because of Thailand’s skewed semi-democracy which is deficient in both educated, well-informed voters. Furthermore, isn’t it true that no parliamentary opposition leader in Thailand has ever succeeded directly to the Prime Minister-ship?
Fact Check: Long overdue as well as blindingly obvious education reform and rice pledging reform (as well as others)made by PM Abhisit were promptly undone and indeed perverted as part of Thaksin’s effort to demonize his opponents.
Crazy like a fox: I reckon he’ll get the job done. Do you hear what the Kamnan is cookin’?
Thailand’s been ripe for revolution for ages and Thaksin’s blind greed and arrogance have provided the momentum for the middle-class to push for a ‘new deal’. As Regan said re toppling the despotic Soviet Union: “If not now – when? If not us – who?”
Everyone has some bias in their views and that’s why policy debates require evidence of real facts in order to make assessments. If your information is in fact classified I would advise you not to go posting it on New Mandala or anywhere else. In academia and foreign policy debates it is important to back up assertions with facts. You did not do this and in fact I took the only evidence you provided and showed how you had misrepresented it.
In terms of my views lacking historical analysis I would respond by saying that I’m going back almost 25 years in historical analysis to the creation of ARIF and RSO so I really don’t think I need much more historical analysis in order to judge your claims that these are 1) terrorist organizations, 2) have any real capacity to carry out attacks, or 3) that they represent any sizable share of the Rohingyah population.
If you have more evidence, even just a few scraps that are in the public domain, I would encourage you to present them. Otherwise please don’t go throwing around unverifiable accusations and calling me biased for simply stating the facts to the best of my knowledge.
That most of the government budget is spend in Bangkok is not surprising, because the administration and thus the salaries for the civil servants is concentrated there. However, there is a further argument. Based on data on tax-collection from 2007 to 2012, about 65% of all government revenue (taxes) are collected in Bangkok! The respective shares of the other regions from the revenue generated outside Bangkok (not the whole revenue!) are: South close to 7%, Northeast about 6% and the North about 5%. Interesting are increases of the revenue. In Bangkok as well as the East corporate tax is most relevant. In the other regions sales and income taxes have the largest share. These indicates to some degree whether incomes have increased. From 2007 to 2012 the increase in Bangkok was 40%. The highest increases were in the East (65%), (probably due to foreign investment as increases in corporate tax), and the Northeast with close to 70%! Here as well we have a shift in some parts towards corporate tax. In the South the growth was 45%. (see http://www.rd.go.th/publish/47377.0.html and the interesting map of tax-collection: http://download.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/Fiscal/Taxcollection2012.pdf).
With average annual growth rates of government revenue close to 10% for the whole country and close to 15% in some regions (in Bangkok only 8%), one might say that Thaksinomics were quite successful at least for the government budget.
“I’ll go back with Mr. Suthep and our 500,000 strong (at least) very peaceful protest groups specifically to prevent that very horrible scenario.”
Boon, I’d be curious to know if the aim of preventing the CRown Prince and Thaksin from joining together is talked about openly among the 500,000 demonstrators. Is this aim discussed by speakers at the various stages? Has Suthep mentioned it? Or is it spoken about more discreetly?
Thanks much, Andrew and others. What about the level of household debt which, according to the Bangkok Post, rose to 80% of GDP in 3rd quarter 2013? I’ve read different takes on the significance of this and would appreciate more input.
Hey hey hey! Police General Adul apologizes! That deserves a repeat: POLICE GENERAL ADUL APOLOGIZES for the misdeeds of his rogue police force. Police General Adul also admitted those Men-in-Black were the police.
That’s an exceptional turnaround … after every senior police general … including that eminent Labor Minister Chalerm Yubamrung with the Pink Bentley (had this guy ever paid income taxes)who sneers a lot that there are no rogue policeman nor police-men-in-black shooting at peaceful protesters.
Hurray … we may actually have an honest Police General in our midst during these very tense times. That should be comforting, I think.
Why Sam Deedes you seemed surprised. You should add that the Police Generals were sending also traffic policemen … repeat traffic policemen … to subdue Kamnan Thep’s prosters. AND there were NO senior police officers to lead the hapless ‘timid an poorly trained’ so called riot-control units in the field! There is no senior police officer leading the charge or retreat or whatever.
But of course Chalerm Y’s ‘men-in-black’ special team will be somewhere, on the roofs, or mixing with the protesters to do lethal mischief at any opportunity (Ramkhamhaeng U/Rajmangala stadium mayhem, remember?)
Well said Robert, and i wonder when the rest of Thai’s will wake up to the content of your comment , i can as a fallang only hope that they do soon , as it would be a sad day for the Thai people if this circus led by the former deputy get to reach that goal of imposing himself again on the majority of Thais without wining an election , and that the King advisors would keep out and stop playing politic .
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Time for a bhikkhuni sangha?
I’m curious about the dismissal of feminism as a factor in women seeking ordination in Thailand: ” … it would be too tempting to interpret what Dhammakamala Bhikkhuni told me during our interview as an expression of feminism.” I wonder if readers can comment on that at all. It seems to me that both Dhammakamala and her mother show strong feminist sentiments in their lives, not always expressed as such (but sometimes), and just the overt claim to monkhood — that’s not a feminist act? At any rate, I’d like to hear some talk about that.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Still no clarification from Andrew MacGregor Marshall’s two nos to my two questions?
I suspect that Mr. Marshall is being manipulative … attempting to earwig … with his suggestion that the rift between the monarchy and Thaksin was because, to use Andrew MacGregor Marshall’s words ” … was that Bhumibol was trying to control his son by restricting his income, and Thaksin enabled Vajiralongkorn to circumvent this period.” (pure earwigging from Marshall).
The rift between the Thai monarchy and Thaksin was because Thaksin Shinawatra, while Thai Prime Minister, deliberately/maliciously embroiled the Thai Prince in that sordid criminal enterprise (to skim the National Lottery) by gifting the Crown Prince with hundreds of millions of Baht not from Thaksin’s personal funds, but directly from the National Lottery via his bagman the Deputy Police Chief Chumphol.
It is well known that many wealthy Thais gave/give substantial ‘gifts’ to the Crown Prince, Mr. Marshall. While the Crown Prince was studying abroad (Australia if I am not mistaken), he stayed or roomed together with young Niphon Promphan (scion of a very wealthy family and currently brother in law to Kamnam Thep), and Niphon & mother gave ‘generously’ to the young Crown Prince, is the story told around Bangkok long time ago. None of the gifts from the wealthy to the Crown Prince were tainted with such malice and as criminal, as the Thaksin millions of bahts gifts straight rifled the National Lottery. Lese majeste yes. Criminal yes.
And yet … the malevolent gall of Thaksin persisted (persists to this day) that he deserves a royal pardon, imagine that. And not getting that royal pardon, Thaksin Shinawatra orchestrated, together with General Khattiya and his police-men-in-black abettors, the bombings/killings/arsons of year 2010 out of spite and desperation.
And yes Andrew Marshall MacGregor you are earwigging again with your story that the Red Shirts scorn the monarchy but loves the Crown Prince.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
This is the same chart, but it also lists the Prime Minister who was in power at the time:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=556290114458267&set=pb.555031657917446.-2207520000.1388765322.&type=3&theater
(if you can’t read Thai, just know red is a Thaksin allied government, and blue is either Democrats or the coup government)
The spike in 2010 was entirely Abhisits budget. And if you believe wikileaks, it was the cost of his populist policies. The data demonstrates that the Dems are actually the ones who are putting Thailand into debt.
The original source of the data, and more, can be found here:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/government-debt-to-gdp
http://www.indexmundi.com/
Here is another good chart, plotting the military budget and highlighting the coup at the center:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=557349801018965&set=pb.555031657917446.-2207520000.1388765322.&type=3&theater
Another big weekend for Thailand
Vichai, please take some time to read back through the responses from the likes of Nomi and Robert and compare them to your own. While Nomi, Robert and others orchestrate their thoughts through articulate explanation of their opinions backed up with some historical reference and what appears to be a balanced frame of mind.
You repeatedly resort to words like ‘dogs, servants, goats and yap yaps’ to describe anyone and it seems everyone who does not comply with your extremely narrow, poorly researched and tunnel visioned view of the political situation in Thailand.
While your ongoing shallow and vindictive commentary is doing an an amazing job of exposing the intellectual, ethical and civil deficiencies of those who support the fascist movement in Thailand, I have to ask you Khun Vichai, if you truly believe that the majority of Thais (meaning those who clearly despise the democrats due to their actions and vote them out repeatedly) are goats, yap yaps, servants and dogs, don’t you think it’s time to move to a place where the populace are happy to behave as voiceless dogs under a small minority?
You could perhaps start a small commune on a rubber plantation in Surat Thani with Khun Suthep and co. That might sound a bit extreme when you first consider it, but seriously Khun Vichai, it’s time to start thinking out of the box, because quite frankly, it’s going to take a lot of hard work, repression, suffering and senseless deaths to force all the ‘dogs’ and ‘goats’ in Thailand to give up on the concept of democracy and one man one vote.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
What’s the Gini co-eff. been doing? Per capita improvements may be going largely to one segment of the populace (as pointed out above) which would explain the reaction against seemingly successful economic policies.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Thailand is in the grip of a parliamentary dictatorship so of course politics is dysfunctional. But politically,despite the dearth of well-educated and well informed voters, there is space for other voices and most of them are making a ‘now or never’ stand for a new deal for everyone.
Another big weekend for Thailand
The histrionics which Suthep gradually works up to are part of the show which mass politics requires to motivate the electorate and are not always to be taken at face value. Surely that should be obvious?
Another big weekend for Thailand
That’s because of Thailand’s skewed semi-democracy which is deficient in both educated, well-informed voters. Furthermore, isn’t it true that no parliamentary opposition leader in Thailand has ever succeeded directly to the Prime Minister-ship?
Another big weekend for Thailand
Fact Check: Long overdue as well as blindingly obvious education reform and rice pledging reform (as well as others)made by PM Abhisit were promptly undone and indeed perverted as part of Thaksin’s effort to demonize his opponents.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Crazy like a fox: I reckon he’ll get the job done. Do you hear what the Kamnan is cookin’?
Thailand’s been ripe for revolution for ages and Thaksin’s blind greed and arrogance have provided the momentum for the middle-class to push for a ‘new deal’. As Regan said re toppling the despotic Soviet Union: “If not now – when? If not us – who?”
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Thaksin and his wife had declared assets
totaling 15.1 billion baht when he took office in 2001
…Thaksin and his family’s assets in Thailand,
totaling 76 billion baht ($2.2 billion) 2006
sources:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/12/headlines/headlines_30036641.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra
+61 billion baht in just 5 years as PM,
unusually hard-working man indeed
Another big weekend for Thailand
‘Inconvenient Truths’ Khun Vichai – thanks.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Mr. Cohen,
Everyone has some bias in their views and that’s why policy debates require evidence of real facts in order to make assessments. If your information is in fact classified I would advise you not to go posting it on New Mandala or anywhere else. In academia and foreign policy debates it is important to back up assertions with facts. You did not do this and in fact I took the only evidence you provided and showed how you had misrepresented it.
In terms of my views lacking historical analysis I would respond by saying that I’m going back almost 25 years in historical analysis to the creation of ARIF and RSO so I really don’t think I need much more historical analysis in order to judge your claims that these are 1) terrorist organizations, 2) have any real capacity to carry out attacks, or 3) that they represent any sizable share of the Rohingyah population.
If you have more evidence, even just a few scraps that are in the public domain, I would encourage you to present them. Otherwise please don’t go throwing around unverifiable accusations and calling me biased for simply stating the facts to the best of my knowledge.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
That most of the government budget is spend in Bangkok is not surprising, because the administration and thus the salaries for the civil servants is concentrated there. However, there is a further argument. Based on data on tax-collection from 2007 to 2012, about 65% of all government revenue (taxes) are collected in Bangkok! The respective shares of the other regions from the revenue generated outside Bangkok (not the whole revenue!) are: South close to 7%, Northeast about 6% and the North about 5%. Interesting are increases of the revenue. In Bangkok as well as the East corporate tax is most relevant. In the other regions sales and income taxes have the largest share. These indicates to some degree whether incomes have increased. From 2007 to 2012 the increase in Bangkok was 40%. The highest increases were in the East (65%), (probably due to foreign investment as increases in corporate tax), and the Northeast with close to 70%! Here as well we have a shift in some parts towards corporate tax. In the South the growth was 45%. (see http://www.rd.go.th/publish/47377.0.html and the interesting map of tax-collection: http://download.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/Fiscal/Taxcollection2012.pdf).
With average annual growth rates of government revenue close to 10% for the whole country and close to 15% in some regions (in Bangkok only 8%), one might say that Thaksinomics were quite successful at least for the government budget.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
“I’ll go back with Mr. Suthep and our 500,000 strong (at least) very peaceful protest groups specifically to prevent that very horrible scenario.”
Boon, I’d be curious to know if the aim of preventing the CRown Prince and Thaksin from joining together is talked about openly among the 500,000 demonstrators. Is this aim discussed by speakers at the various stages? Has Suthep mentioned it? Or is it spoken about more discreetly?
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Thanks much, Andrew and others. What about the level of household debt which, according to the Bangkok Post, rose to 80% of GDP in 3rd quarter 2013? I’ve read different takes on the significance of this and would appreciate more input.
Storming the DSI building
Hey hey hey! Police General Adul apologizes! That deserves a repeat: POLICE GENERAL ADUL APOLOGIZES for the misdeeds of his rogue police force. Police General Adul also admitted those Men-in-Black were the police.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/387778/police-chief-apologises-for-riot-police-attack-on-health-worker-car
That’s an exceptional turnaround … after every senior police general … including that eminent Labor Minister Chalerm Yubamrung with the Pink Bentley (had this guy ever paid income taxes)who sneers a lot that there are no rogue policeman nor police-men-in-black shooting at peaceful protesters.
Hurray … we may actually have an honest Police General in our midst during these very tense times. That should be comforting, I think.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Bialao Cynics are the saddest human beings….
Storming the DSI building
Why Sam Deedes you seemed surprised. You should add that the Police Generals were sending also traffic policemen … repeat traffic policemen … to subdue Kamnan Thep’s prosters. AND there were NO senior police officers to lead the hapless ‘timid an poorly trained’ so called riot-control units in the field! There is no senior police officer leading the charge or retreat or whatever.
But of course Chalerm Y’s ‘men-in-black’ special team will be somewhere, on the roofs, or mixing with the protesters to do lethal mischief at any opportunity (Ramkhamhaeng U/Rajmangala stadium mayhem, remember?)
Another big weekend for Thailand
Well said Robert, and i wonder when the rest of Thai’s will wake up to the content of your comment , i can as a fallang only hope that they do soon , as it would be a sad day for the Thai people if this circus led by the former deputy get to reach that goal of imposing himself again on the majority of Thais without wining an election , and that the King advisors would keep out and stop playing politic .