What about Rohingyas, another group of “stateless Muslims”? Their lot is even worse than that of Palestinians, in my opinion. (Palestinians have a strong lobby in many countries) Is Thailand or Malaysia interested in taking Rohingya refugees also? (I don’t mean human trafficking lol) Is the UNHCR working on this? Just asking. Aren’t all humans (or at least Muslims) created equal?
For well over five years now I’ve been speculating about whether Isaarn and Lanna would secede. It appears I was wrong. It appears Khun Suthep is the one calling for secession – i.e. of Bangkok and his beloved South.
It’s not that simple, as I tried to explain earlier. First of all the Rohingya weren’t brought in as Indian Muslims by the British
in the 19th Century. One has to distinguish between Indian workers brought in to work
rubber and oil palm plantations in Burma and Malaya, by the British. The Indians, in Malaya and Malaysia, by the way, comprise(d) southern Indian Tamils and Indians from elsewhere (some northern Indian Muslim, some Sikhs and some northern Indian Hindus) in the Indian Subcontinent. The Indian Tamil plantation workers in Malaysia, today, are not affluent at all and did not fare particularly well under British or Malay (UMNO) rule after Independence. I would point out that the British favoured the Malays over the Indians and the Chinese in Malaya, and the Chinese, to a large extent, worked hard and became relatively affluent with little complaint against the British despite having not been favoured by the British and in fact, those Chinese that worked the tin mines in Perak in Malaya, were poorly treated by the British. Your statement about the British favouring the Indian Muslims in Burma is not correct, as the entire political structure in Burma (just as in Malaya) before and after Independence, was comprised of the dominant ethnic group, the Bamar (Burmans). The post-Independence democratic government of U Nu in Burma, just like the post-Independence government of Tunku Abdul Rahman of Malaysia, favoured the dominant ethnic groups, Bamars and Malays, respectively. It is these groups that the British favoured, though the British left a hell of a lot better infrastructure in Malaya than they did in Burma, which they mostly ignored in favour of India. The Rohingya are ethnically indistinguishable from Bangladeshis, and there has been natural migrations across what was the border between Burma and East Pakistan since the partition of Pakistan, and even earlier when all of the area now known as Pakistan was still part of India, and Burma was just a British backwater region of India (as the British saw it).
The civil war brought against the Bengali Muslims in Eastern Pakistan by the Punjabis and Sindhis of West Pakistan led to the formation of Bangladesh, which borders Burma. Indian Muslim or Hindu merchant classes in Rangoon (Yangon) and Indian plantation workers in colonial Burma, who either were brought in by the British (plantation workers) or emigrated on their own (merchants), are not the same as the Rohingya Muslims or Rakhine Muslims who weren’t brought in, but had lived in the border states prior to Independence of Burma and Bangladesh, and have been crossing over that ‘border’ back and forth for at least a hundred years, before there was a delineated
border.
I don’t disagree (as I very clearly stated in my earlier posts, which were not read properly at all by some) that there is some discrimination against the Rohingya on the part of some individual Bamar Burmese and by the Tatmadaw, for sure. I question whether 100 % of ethnic Bamars hate Rohingya, which one could infer from an earlier commentator’s rather emotional plaint. Some ethnic Bamar people don’t like Muslims and some do, or are neutral. The resentment doesn’t date only to British importation of Indian Muslims, who as I said were not Rakhine Muslims, but the resentment is largely due to extremist elements within the Rohingya political organizations that are, despite some clearly ideological, inaccurate and skewed viewpoints expressed earlier on New Mandala, armed and funded by Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan and possible Al-Qaeda (and maybe even Jema’ah Islamiyah in Indonesia). Burmese of Bamar extraction are very self-conscious about their physical and social geography, and the political and social implications of the potential fragmentation of Burma into semi-autonomous zones for every single ethnic group in Burma: Bamars, Rakhines, Rohingyas, Karens, Kachins, Mons, and others. I think, having spoken with many ethnic Bamar people in Burma, and out of Burma in exile, that the devotion to Burma’s physical geographical integrity is very strong among Bamar people, and any semblance of a threat to that physical geographical integrity is not looked at with great favour. To many (not all) ethnic Bamar people, the Rohingya represent a potential threat to that geographical integrity, as does China, as has been voluminously pointed out by several New Mandala regular commentators in rather colourful language. I repeat, I am not, and I did not say earlier, that all Rohingya Muslims are intolerant, extremist, or are necessarily a threat to Burma’s geographical integrity, but there are elements within the Rohingya political organizations, which are not at all insubstantial or non-influential as claimed by an earlier commentator, that concern Burmese, and I believe, ethnic Bamar people in particular. There is absolutely evidence to support some basis for that fear. How that fear is dealt with, with respect to treatment of, and political autonomy for the Rohingya, is of course best decided by a democratic government, which unfortunately, Burma has not had since U Nu. The Tatmadaw want to stay in power and they want a physically-intact Burma; but even those Burmese who hate the Tatmadaw largely also want a physically-intact Burma. I doubt that DASK, whatever her ‘Liberal’ inclinations, would agree to a fragmented Burma comprising 20 or more semi-autonomous regions. If U Nu failed in his sincere attempt to reach multi-ethnic accommodation, on what basis would one think that DASK would fare better ?
Disparagement is not due to the colour of the skin of Rohingya people or Indian Muslims in Yangon (the few that are left after Ne Win) or of ethnic Chinese in Burma (which have increased as of late), as there are quite a few Bamar that are no ‘lighter’ than many Rohingya or others. But, you are correct that some Imams and some other devoutly religious Muslims among the Rohingya may regard Bamar people as Infidels as they regard all non-Muslims as Infidels. Even in Malaysia, there are Muslim Malays (especially in the Islamic Party of Malaysia-PAS) who regard the UMNO-led Malay government in Malaysia as an ‘Infidel Government’ and have said so frequently, as Malay Shiites are also considered ‘Infidels’ by fellow Muslim (Sunni) Malays who primarily follow the Shaf’i School of Sunni Islam. The term ‘Infidel’ is not restricted to the act of name-calling by Muslims alone against non-Muslims; Muslims call each other “Infidels” on a daily basis throughout the Islamic World, and did so long before the British, Portuguese and Dutch arrived in Southeast Asia.
Trade was not monopolized by Indian plantation workers anywhere in the British Commonwealth, as they were poor, uneducated, and did not come from upper-caste merchant
classes in the Indian Subcontinent. You confuse different groups of Indians (some Muslim and some Hindu and some Sikh) of very different levels of affluence, some of whom (plantation workers) were brought in the British and did not attain upward mobility and Indian merchant classes, many of whom pre-date the British, who did attain some upward mobility. The Rohingya fit neither category of person of Indo-Aryan origin, even if they may share the same religion as a middle-class Indian Muslim sari and clothing merchant in Rangoon (Yangon). Rohingya Muslims and Bengali Muslims do share a common ethnic and religious heritage and origin.
No Indian took land from the ethnic Bamar, the British did, and subsequently returned most of the land to the ethnic Bamar after Independence. I would point out that after U Nu, who tried to engender a multiculturally-tolerant Burma as mentioned directly above, it all went down hill after U Nu. Starting with the ethnic-Chinese Ne Win (who hated his ‘own people’ and his own ethnic origins) and the pseudo-Nationalistic Tatmadaw, discrimination against Chinese, Indians, ethnic Bamars without the ‘right’ connections, AND Rohingya all took place, in favour of a pseudo-Socialist and Pseudo-Bamar-Nationalistic Government ideology.
It is not as if ethnic Bamar people are brainwashed by the Tatmadaw and they are not, they largely despise the Tatmadaw, despised Ne Win, despise Than Shwe, and their reasons for ethnic Bamar pride or nationalism, if you prefer, is analogous to the historical and currently rising Malay nationalism in Malaysia (only, Malays happen to be Muslims and most ethnic Bamar are Buddhists). It is the same as the Sinhalese (Buddhist) nationalistic pride among many Sinhalese in Sri Lanka. Nationalism knows no one culture or ethnic groups or any particular political party. One might just be as equally dismissive of wealth Chinese or Indian or Malay urban and affluent white-collar professionals, as one might disparage rural, poor and non-affluent Indians, Malays or aboriginal peoples, whether indigenous
(Malays and aboriginal peoples) or brought in by the British (Tamil rubber and oil palm plantation workers) in Malaya, which later became Malaysia.
Wan Yubamrung, son of the notorious/unsavory Thai politician and current Labor Minister Chalerm Yubamrung, has registered to run as constituency MP candidate for PT Party at his father’s stronghold district.
Wan Yubamrung was the son who was arrested then released for the shooting of a police sergeant-hero in a bar brawl, wasn’t he?
That’s political maturity or what, eh Vichai N?
And do I have to be a PT Party politician’s son, wife or in-law to run under the PT Party banner?
Comment on Beauchamp’s views on Rakhine, Myanmar conflicts. You should know that Rakhine Muslims (NOT Rohingya) take a very dim view of the Rohingya’s legitimate claim to Myanmar nationality. You should further know that Myanmar Buddhists have told me that they simply will not tolerate attacks on Buddhist women simply because the Muslim attackers see them as infidels. U Wirathu strikes a powerful chord in Myanmar Buddhist public opinion. The resentment of Muslims dates to British imperialism’s favoritism toward the Muslim migrants brought in by the thousands in the 19th century from India, taking Burman lands, monopolizing trade…
In my work I do have contact with several refugee communities who have been resettled in the United States (Somalians, ethnically-Nepali Bhutanese, Bosnians, and Hmong, most notably). I do not currently work with Palestinian refugees. As you might have surmised, I am extremely cynical of the United Nations’ efforts in this area; however, I’ll swallow that cynicism for the moment to provide the follow observations, which I hope you might find helpful.
Firstly, you should impress upon the UNHCR that since the Kingdom of Thailand is not a party to the Refugee Convention of 1951, which places the stateless persons within her borders in danger of imprisonment, exploitation and abuse. Sadly, with the exception of Cambodia, every other country in Southeast Asia, as well as Southwest Asia, the Middle East (with the exception of Yemen) are also non-signatories.
Finally, as to Raheem’s statment that “UNHCR insist they have to check all these documents. We don’t know why they can’t check with UNRWA” it should be noted that UNRWA have a much broader definition of asylum-seeker and refugee than the UNHCR. Unfortunately, the UNHCR will have to conduct its own refugee status determination on each individual, and again, I would believe that due to mere numbers the Burmese community would get the lion’s share of attention and resources in this regard.
You don’t have to worry about the Chinese. They certainly can take care of themselves.
Anyway why would half-Chiness or Chinese axe-handles (tayoke-pu-hsein-yoe) riot against their sugardaddy-paymasters? (we owe so much to them lol)
“Yellow is beautiful” nowadays in Burma. Just look at all the entertainment industry and the ads in magazines. You have to look Chinese or be half- Chinese or suck up to the Chinese to be successful in Burma. Rohinygyas have no chance, not just because they are Muslims but because they are “ugly dark-skinned Kalars” (actually those Rohingya kids in the photo look like me when I was their age lol)
The SEA games were obviously paid by the Chinese as a bribe or better a down-payment for continuing their brutal relentless exploitation of Burma’s natural resources: Myitsone dam, Letpadaung copper mines, Phakant jade mines, gas/oil pipeline etc. Not only that, there will soon be a railway line from Kunming to Kyaukphru and Thandwe where they have “ethnically cleansed” the neighbourhood of “undesirables”. so that the loyal Rakhines and Bamars can work as cheap labourers at the new Chinese naval base and oil-tanker seaport at Kyaukphru (to get oil from the Muslim ME, bypassing Malacca Straits, how ironic!). Arakan State belongs to China’s “pearl of strings” and no piece of it belongs to the Rohingya!
Moa Tsetung shengdanjie!
Envy of Israeli Culture and Israeli Democracy is the major component of the GDP of most Islamic nations. Without hatred and envy to bind them, what would they have left ? Oil ?
Gleaming high-rise buildings in the Gulf (built by Palestinians, by the way) ? What would be left for them to do, except try and improve themselves, rather than moaning and
scapegoating, which takes much less effort and is, for many who hate Israel, very cathartic.
” … PDRC will not leave “a square inch” of Bangkok for Thaksin supporters …” seems to be working only too well. PM YIngluck had been scared off to non-stop silly trips to the Isan country and could not return to Bangkok. Maybe PM YIngluck should resign if she could not govern. She had lost her legitimacy long long time ago anyway … the puppet.
If there is a balanced and thoughtful leader, he or she wont be marching in protest for better governance.
He or She will be working with the grassroots and bureaucrats, formulating policies for the betterment of the whole country.
And I will be working for free and tiredlessly campaigning and promoting Him or Her, their Party and their policy every single election. And in between elections, I will be more than happy to contribute time and effort into researching needs of grassroot communities, and communicating those data to the policies-formulators.
Neither UMNO, PAS, DAP or PR are an answer to
Malaysia’s malaise (no pun intended). All of these parties are incapable of competent leadership or representing the vast majority
of Malaysia’s population, who still await competent, intelligent, caring and principled leadership. UMNO may have more largesse, but no party, or individual, has a workable solution for Malaysia’s intractable cultural, social, religious and political problems.
March along side these people? Even without Suthep, I don’t see how the Democrats can talk about a “clean” Govt. They have been S@#$% Thailand for years.
It appears there has been concerted and successful (Bravo!)effort by ALL to stop that. Kalars (any religion, thank you) are readily available scape-GOATS any time of the day in this chauvinistic, buoyant Sit-tut dominated (more so now than ever in Burma’s history) and perversely Sit-tut worship-ping (we ALL loooove you- Sit-tut guys more and more the more you kill and torture us and steal and sell us out to all sorts of foreigners) Burma of today.
China’s new found military arrogance is also real.
And even with economical and political “cold war” going on, ALL the global players are united to destroy the social fabric and any pretense of resistance by the people of Burma to global slave labor indenturing and resource rape (“integration to global economy”) and consumer surplus goods dumping for which best partners for the global companies are none other than the Burmese expats themselves.
Please note the current scene of Burma.
There is laying of the foundation for imminent profound and widespread exploitation around the country. For example changing the current paper money which is harder to manipulate to COMPUTER KEYBOARD MONEY made simply from thin air at will (Whose will?) controlled by Basle (grandly, shamelessly and DISHONESTLY called INDEPENDENT CENTRAL BANK- something people like Khin Maung Nyo and Tin Maung Maung Than could not wait to get per kind favour of IMF and other Bretton Woods Monsters).
Promulgating laws using idiotic dubiously elected (definitely self-important)people under most dubious constitution to protect global and local COMPANIES and INVESTORS against the true owners of the land, the people, (that is where the famous “Rule of Law” comes in to evict the people off their land LAWFULLY and charge them for using their own water, etc. to be enforced by newly trained and armed POLICE- People’s Police. Please see exactly the same tone and appeal was made recently here for Malaysia which is already in the grips of the global clutch http://www.newmandala.org/2013/12/04/the-rule-of-law-and-malaysias-middle-income-trap/ )
Massive production and free trade and massively enhanced distribution of all forms of narcotics now inland as a newer feature as well as enormous global export.
Massive corruption and worsening daily violent crimes which makes new profession of “Security Firms” in Burma people seem to be perversely proud to have. (NB People are also so, so proud to have these impossible traffic jams as well! Uber-modern)
These are on top of the unstable and unsavory government directed and conducted racial/ religious strife.
Yet the people are deliriously happy having this wonderful “Democracy” as being mentioned in global forums, getting this and that “Prizes”, being told such and such “Good Country” their dear Burma is, getting involved in such HIP lines as racial harmony, HIV medication, Laprosy eradication, gender equality, non-discrimination of sexual orientation, etc,etc, etc,veering well off the original aim of the uprising they started two decades ago resulting in deaths and sufferings of hundreds of thousands of youths and adults.
It does appear “Democracy” for people of Burma seems to be drinking liberal amount of alcohol – for BOTH genders or ALL genders-, wearing shorts and skirts, using cellphone and dreaming of Singapore. Oh- literary award ceremonies as Burma is so, so cultured and ADVANCED! Meanwhile they can blithely ignore the most cruel acts done to other humans in the daylight with not a flinch and ignore the people looted off their land all over the country as it means the country is “Progressing towards Democracy”. And there is much, much more to come. May be some place near you next time.
So with current sick and perverse climate, your assessment is spot on. Chinese in Burma are totally safe. All of them- old and new. Safer than ever in today’s “Astonishingly Reformed, Progressive” Burma where they are sucking out the life blood of the people more gushingly than ever with full support from their loyal slave Pyithu Arzarni Tatmadaw as well as loyal “Opposition”, a newer feature.
My apologies if I have been careless in my use of words. The interview was conducted for genuine reasons and not as any screen.
My perception of the New Mandala readership was that since the forum was university based I might reasonably expect responses if not from senior diplomats then at least from others who move in relevant academic circles.
If I am mistaken then again I am sorry. All I really wanted was advice on how to improve things where I am, i.e. suggestions on how to deal with the UNHCR. I will refrain from commenting on anything else.
Wow, Southeps latest speech is quite telling, BKK post reported: ‘He said the PDRC will not leave “a square inch” of Bangkok for Thaksin supporters and told those who disagreed with this move to leave the capital for good.
Its hard to see any hope for a peaceful resolution now that Southep is sincerely announcing that anyone who disagrees with his personal political ambitions should vacate Bangkok.
Its clear where he is going with this train of thought and it is not a unified Thailand where people of differing political persuasions can live together in peace and discuss their differences.
In Southeps world, political views can only be tolerated if they occur outside of his beloved Bangkok and the South where he and his ‘people’ demand absolute control over the reigns of power.
The big question is whether or not he will succeed in leveraging his overwhelming hate and ambition into widespread violence which could (potentially) achieve his long term goal of separating his beloved South and Bangkok from the rest of the nation.
If only the protestors would follow a balanced and thoughtful leader instead of a man seething with and preaching hate, I could then march along side the protestors to demand better governance and less corruption.
Interesting and dangerous times lay ahead for Thailand.
The term ‘brainwashed’ is of course inadequate. That said it works quite well as shorthand for a whole host of things that have been swept under the carpet for far too long. Politics here would seem to be just a symptom of some other deep-seated factor which no longer seems to work as well as it did in a more agrarian era. Does ‘arranged marriage’ ring any bells here? If it is a long-term easy-way-out of having too many headaches (an oft-heard complaint in times of infinitessimal pressure increase)in life, you might well learn to ‘love’ – regardless of your initial unease. Especially since unfettered romance all too often DOES lead to an abusive relationship. And being left on-the-shelf is, for many, a very real scenario too. People who have deliberately avoided this self-imposed ‘disconnect’, usually end up living and working elsewhere. Indeed, pretty much the same problem also seems to ail many long-term expats.
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Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
What about Rohingyas, another group of “stateless Muslims”? Their lot is even worse than that of Palestinians, in my opinion. (Palestinians have a strong lobby in many countries) Is Thailand or Malaysia interested in taking Rohingya refugees also? (I don’t mean human trafficking lol) Is the UNHCR working on this? Just asking. Aren’t all humans (or at least Muslims) created equal?
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
Your suggestion of my organisation offering assistance to the UNHCR is very gratefully received and will be taken up by me at our next meeting.
Your point about UNWRA is well taken. You are absolutely right about the size of the Burmese community under review by UNHCR.
My sincere thanks. I am sorry we did not have this conversation at the outset.
Malaysian elections, malapportionment, and redelineation
“UMNO may have more largesse”
WHAT!? – it is tax payer’s money treated as if it is theirs. I take exception to statements like these.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Yes, the only legit rulers are the ones who had to do a coup every time.. Democrats supporters sure have a twisted sense of logic.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
U Moe Aung,
BTW if you haven’t seen it yet.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/advanced-course-on-color-revolutions.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.nz/2011/11/burmese-pro-democracy-movement-creation.html
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/23/294864/suu-kyi-western-proxy-in-myanmar/
Another big weekend for Thailand
For well over five years now I’ve been speculating about whether Isaarn and Lanna would secede. It appears I was wrong. It appears Khun Suthep is the one calling for secession – i.e. of Bangkok and his beloved South.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Mr. Thomas,
It’s not that simple, as I tried to explain earlier. First of all the Rohingya weren’t brought in as Indian Muslims by the British
in the 19th Century. One has to distinguish between Indian workers brought in to work
rubber and oil palm plantations in Burma and Malaya, by the British. The Indians, in Malaya and Malaysia, by the way, comprise(d) southern Indian Tamils and Indians from elsewhere (some northern Indian Muslim, some Sikhs and some northern Indian Hindus) in the Indian Subcontinent. The Indian Tamil plantation workers in Malaysia, today, are not affluent at all and did not fare particularly well under British or Malay (UMNO) rule after Independence. I would point out that the British favoured the Malays over the Indians and the Chinese in Malaya, and the Chinese, to a large extent, worked hard and became relatively affluent with little complaint against the British despite having not been favoured by the British and in fact, those Chinese that worked the tin mines in Perak in Malaya, were poorly treated by the British. Your statement about the British favouring the Indian Muslims in Burma is not correct, as the entire political structure in Burma (just as in Malaya) before and after Independence, was comprised of the dominant ethnic group, the Bamar (Burmans). The post-Independence democratic government of U Nu in Burma, just like the post-Independence government of Tunku Abdul Rahman of Malaysia, favoured the dominant ethnic groups, Bamars and Malays, respectively. It is these groups that the British favoured, though the British left a hell of a lot better infrastructure in Malaya than they did in Burma, which they mostly ignored in favour of India. The Rohingya are ethnically indistinguishable from Bangladeshis, and there has been natural migrations across what was the border between Burma and East Pakistan since the partition of Pakistan, and even earlier when all of the area now known as Pakistan was still part of India, and Burma was just a British backwater region of India (as the British saw it).
The civil war brought against the Bengali Muslims in Eastern Pakistan by the Punjabis and Sindhis of West Pakistan led to the formation of Bangladesh, which borders Burma. Indian Muslim or Hindu merchant classes in Rangoon (Yangon) and Indian plantation workers in colonial Burma, who either were brought in by the British (plantation workers) or emigrated on their own (merchants), are not the same as the Rohingya Muslims or Rakhine Muslims who weren’t brought in, but had lived in the border states prior to Independence of Burma and Bangladesh, and have been crossing over that ‘border’ back and forth for at least a hundred years, before there was a delineated
border.
I don’t disagree (as I very clearly stated in my earlier posts, which were not read properly at all by some) that there is some discrimination against the Rohingya on the part of some individual Bamar Burmese and by the Tatmadaw, for sure. I question whether 100 % of ethnic Bamars hate Rohingya, which one could infer from an earlier commentator’s rather emotional plaint. Some ethnic Bamar people don’t like Muslims and some do, or are neutral. The resentment doesn’t date only to British importation of Indian Muslims, who as I said were not Rakhine Muslims, but the resentment is largely due to extremist elements within the Rohingya political organizations that are, despite some clearly ideological, inaccurate and skewed viewpoints expressed earlier on New Mandala, armed and funded by Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan and possible Al-Qaeda (and maybe even Jema’ah Islamiyah in Indonesia). Burmese of Bamar extraction are very self-conscious about their physical and social geography, and the political and social implications of the potential fragmentation of Burma into semi-autonomous zones for every single ethnic group in Burma: Bamars, Rakhines, Rohingyas, Karens, Kachins, Mons, and others. I think, having spoken with many ethnic Bamar people in Burma, and out of Burma in exile, that the devotion to Burma’s physical geographical integrity is very strong among Bamar people, and any semblance of a threat to that physical geographical integrity is not looked at with great favour. To many (not all) ethnic Bamar people, the Rohingya represent a potential threat to that geographical integrity, as does China, as has been voluminously pointed out by several New Mandala regular commentators in rather colourful language. I repeat, I am not, and I did not say earlier, that all Rohingya Muslims are intolerant, extremist, or are necessarily a threat to Burma’s geographical integrity, but there are elements within the Rohingya political organizations, which are not at all insubstantial or non-influential as claimed by an earlier commentator, that concern Burmese, and I believe, ethnic Bamar people in particular. There is absolutely evidence to support some basis for that fear. How that fear is dealt with, with respect to treatment of, and political autonomy for the Rohingya, is of course best decided by a democratic government, which unfortunately, Burma has not had since U Nu. The Tatmadaw want to stay in power and they want a physically-intact Burma; but even those Burmese who hate the Tatmadaw largely also want a physically-intact Burma. I doubt that DASK, whatever her ‘Liberal’ inclinations, would agree to a fragmented Burma comprising 20 or more semi-autonomous regions. If U Nu failed in his sincere attempt to reach multi-ethnic accommodation, on what basis would one think that DASK would fare better ?
Disparagement is not due to the colour of the skin of Rohingya people or Indian Muslims in Yangon (the few that are left after Ne Win) or of ethnic Chinese in Burma (which have increased as of late), as there are quite a few Bamar that are no ‘lighter’ than many Rohingya or others. But, you are correct that some Imams and some other devoutly religious Muslims among the Rohingya may regard Bamar people as Infidels as they regard all non-Muslims as Infidels. Even in Malaysia, there are Muslim Malays (especially in the Islamic Party of Malaysia-PAS) who regard the UMNO-led Malay government in Malaysia as an ‘Infidel Government’ and have said so frequently, as Malay Shiites are also considered ‘Infidels’ by fellow Muslim (Sunni) Malays who primarily follow the Shaf’i School of Sunni Islam. The term ‘Infidel’ is not restricted to the act of name-calling by Muslims alone against non-Muslims; Muslims call each other “Infidels” on a daily basis throughout the Islamic World, and did so long before the British, Portuguese and Dutch arrived in Southeast Asia.
Trade was not monopolized by Indian plantation workers anywhere in the British Commonwealth, as they were poor, uneducated, and did not come from upper-caste merchant
classes in the Indian Subcontinent. You confuse different groups of Indians (some Muslim and some Hindu and some Sikh) of very different levels of affluence, some of whom (plantation workers) were brought in the British and did not attain upward mobility and Indian merchant classes, many of whom pre-date the British, who did attain some upward mobility. The Rohingya fit neither category of person of Indo-Aryan origin, even if they may share the same religion as a middle-class Indian Muslim sari and clothing merchant in Rangoon (Yangon). Rohingya Muslims and Bengali Muslims do share a common ethnic and religious heritage and origin.
No Indian took land from the ethnic Bamar, the British did, and subsequently returned most of the land to the ethnic Bamar after Independence. I would point out that after U Nu, who tried to engender a multiculturally-tolerant Burma as mentioned directly above, it all went down hill after U Nu. Starting with the ethnic-Chinese Ne Win (who hated his ‘own people’ and his own ethnic origins) and the pseudo-Nationalistic Tatmadaw, discrimination against Chinese, Indians, ethnic Bamars without the ‘right’ connections, AND Rohingya all took place, in favour of a pseudo-Socialist and Pseudo-Bamar-Nationalistic Government ideology.
It is not as if ethnic Bamar people are brainwashed by the Tatmadaw and they are not, they largely despise the Tatmadaw, despised Ne Win, despise Than Shwe, and their reasons for ethnic Bamar pride or nationalism, if you prefer, is analogous to the historical and currently rising Malay nationalism in Malaysia (only, Malays happen to be Muslims and most ethnic Bamar are Buddhists). It is the same as the Sinhalese (Buddhist) nationalistic pride among many Sinhalese in Sri Lanka. Nationalism knows no one culture or ethnic groups or any particular political party. One might just be as equally dismissive of wealth Chinese or Indian or Malay urban and affluent white-collar professionals, as one might disparage rural, poor and non-affluent Indians, Malays or aboriginal peoples, whether indigenous
(Malays and aboriginal peoples) or brought in by the British (Tamil rubber and oil palm plantation workers) in Malaya, which later became Malaysia.
Thai politics, 14 October and all that
Wan Yubamrung, son of the notorious/unsavory Thai politician and current Labor Minister Chalerm Yubamrung, has registered to run as constituency MP candidate for PT Party at his father’s stronghold district.
Wan Yubamrung was the son who was arrested then released for the shooting of a police sergeant-hero in a bar brawl, wasn’t he?
That’s political maturity or what, eh Vichai N?
And do I have to be a PT Party politician’s son, wife or in-law to run under the PT Party banner?
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Comment on Beauchamp’s views on Rakhine, Myanmar conflicts. You should know that Rakhine Muslims (NOT Rohingya) take a very dim view of the Rohingya’s legitimate claim to Myanmar nationality. You should further know that Myanmar Buddhists have told me that they simply will not tolerate attacks on Buddhist women simply because the Muslim attackers see them as infidels. U Wirathu strikes a powerful chord in Myanmar Buddhist public opinion. The resentment of Muslims dates to British imperialism’s favoritism toward the Muslim migrants brought in by the thousands in the 19th century from India, taking Burman lands, monopolizing trade…
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
In my work I do have contact with several refugee communities who have been resettled in the United States (Somalians, ethnically-Nepali Bhutanese, Bosnians, and Hmong, most notably). I do not currently work with Palestinian refugees. As you might have surmised, I am extremely cynical of the United Nations’ efforts in this area; however, I’ll swallow that cynicism for the moment to provide the follow observations, which I hope you might find helpful.
Firstly, you should impress upon the UNHCR that since the Kingdom of Thailand is not a party to the Refugee Convention of 1951, which places the stateless persons within her borders in danger of imprisonment, exploitation and abuse. Sadly, with the exception of Cambodia, every other country in Southeast Asia, as well as Southwest Asia, the Middle East (with the exception of Yemen) are also non-signatories.
Secondly, according to the UNHCR’s own statistics, in 2013, Thailand had over half a million stateless persons residing inside her borders. Considering the UNHCR in Thailand already have their hands full with the Burmese population, you might want to suggest that the organization you represent could assist them in refugee status determination for the Palestinian refugees resident in Thailand (of which the majority I assume live in Bangkok?). I would note that this process needs to start sooner rather than later considering the worsening situation in Syria will bring more refugees to the borders of countries that are easy to get to, Thailand being one of them.
Finally, as to Raheem’s statment that “UNHCR insist they have to check all these documents. We don’t know why they can’t check with UNRWA” it should be noted that UNRWA have a much broader definition of asylum-seeker and refugee than the UNHCR. Unfortunately, the UNHCR will have to conduct its own refugee status determination on each individual, and again, I would believe that due to mere numbers the Burmese community would get the lion’s share of attention and resources in this regard.
Sincerely,
LSS
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
You don’t have to worry about the Chinese. They certainly can take care of themselves.
Anyway why would half-Chiness or Chinese axe-handles (tayoke-pu-hsein-yoe) riot against their sugardaddy-paymasters? (we owe so much to them lol)
“Yellow is beautiful” nowadays in Burma. Just look at all the entertainment industry and the ads in magazines. You have to look Chinese or be half- Chinese or suck up to the Chinese to be successful in Burma. Rohinygyas have no chance, not just because they are Muslims but because they are “ugly dark-skinned Kalars” (actually those Rohingya kids in the photo look like me when I was their age lol)
The SEA games were obviously paid by the Chinese as a bribe or better a down-payment for continuing their brutal relentless exploitation of Burma’s natural resources: Myitsone dam, Letpadaung copper mines, Phakant jade mines, gas/oil pipeline etc. Not only that, there will soon be a railway line from Kunming to Kyaukphru and Thandwe where they have “ethnically cleansed” the neighbourhood of “undesirables”. so that the loyal Rakhines and Bamars can work as cheap labourers at the new Chinese naval base and oil-tanker seaport at Kyaukphru (to get oil from the Muslim ME, bypassing Malacca Straits, how ironic!). Arakan State belongs to China’s “pearl of strings” and no piece of it belongs to the Rohingya!
Moa Tsetung shengdanjie!
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
Jim,
Envy of Israeli Culture and Israeli Democracy is the major component of the GDP of most Islamic nations. Without hatred and envy to bind them, what would they have left ? Oil ?
Gleaming high-rise buildings in the Gulf (built by Palestinians, by the way) ? What would be left for them to do, except try and improve themselves, rather than moaning and
scapegoating, which takes much less effort and is, for many who hate Israel, very cathartic.
Another big weekend for Thailand
” … PDRC will not leave “a square inch” of Bangkok for Thaksin supporters …” seems to be working only too well. PM YIngluck had been scared off to non-stop silly trips to the Isan country and could not return to Bangkok. Maybe PM YIngluck should resign if she could not govern. She had lost her legitimacy long long time ago anyway … the puppet.
Another big weekend for Thailand
If there is a balanced and thoughtful leader, he or she wont be marching in protest for better governance.
He or She will be working with the grassroots and bureaucrats, formulating policies for the betterment of the whole country.
And I will be working for free and tiredlessly campaigning and promoting Him or Her, their Party and their policy every single election. And in between elections, I will be more than happy to contribute time and effort into researching needs of grassroot communities, and communicating those data to the policies-formulators.
Malaysian elections, malapportionment, and redelineation
Neither UMNO, PAS, DAP or PR are an answer to
Malaysia’s malaise (no pun intended). All of these parties are incapable of competent leadership or representing the vast majority
of Malaysia’s population, who still await competent, intelligent, caring and principled leadership. UMNO may have more largesse, but no party, or individual, has a workable solution for Malaysia’s intractable cultural, social, religious and political problems.
Another big weekend for Thailand
March along side these people? Even without Suthep, I don’t see how the Democrats can talk about a “clean” Govt. They have been S@#$% Thailand for years.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Race Riots against the Chinese! In Burma!
It appears there has been concerted and successful (Bravo!)effort by ALL to stop that. Kalars (any religion, thank you) are readily available scape-GOATS any time of the day in this chauvinistic, buoyant Sit-tut dominated (more so now than ever in Burma’s history) and perversely Sit-tut worship-ping (we ALL loooove you- Sit-tut guys more and more the more you kill and torture us and steal and sell us out to all sorts of foreigners) Burma of today.
China’s new found military arrogance is also real.
And even with economical and political “cold war” going on, ALL the global players are united to destroy the social fabric and any pretense of resistance by the people of Burma to global slave labor indenturing and resource rape (“integration to global economy”) and consumer surplus goods dumping for which best partners for the global companies are none other than the Burmese expats themselves.
Please note the current scene of Burma.
There is laying of the foundation for imminent profound and widespread exploitation around the country. For example changing the current paper money which is harder to manipulate to COMPUTER KEYBOARD MONEY made simply from thin air at will (Whose will?) controlled by Basle (grandly, shamelessly and DISHONESTLY called INDEPENDENT CENTRAL BANK- something people like Khin Maung Nyo and Tin Maung Maung Than could not wait to get per kind favour of IMF and other Bretton Woods Monsters).
Promulgating laws using idiotic dubiously elected (definitely self-important)people under most dubious constitution to protect global and local COMPANIES and INVESTORS against the true owners of the land, the people, (that is where the famous “Rule of Law” comes in to evict the people off their land LAWFULLY and charge them for using their own water, etc. to be enforced by newly trained and armed POLICE- People’s Police. Please see exactly the same tone and appeal was made recently here for Malaysia which is already in the grips of the global clutch http://www.newmandala.org/2013/12/04/the-rule-of-law-and-malaysias-middle-income-trap/ )
Massive production and free trade and massively enhanced distribution of all forms of narcotics now inland as a newer feature as well as enormous global export.
Massive corruption and worsening daily violent crimes which makes new profession of “Security Firms” in Burma people seem to be perversely proud to have. (NB People are also so, so proud to have these impossible traffic jams as well! Uber-modern)
These are on top of the unstable and unsavory government directed and conducted racial/ religious strife.
Yet the people are deliriously happy having this wonderful “Democracy” as being mentioned in global forums, getting this and that “Prizes”, being told such and such “Good Country” their dear Burma is, getting involved in such HIP lines as racial harmony, HIV medication, Laprosy eradication, gender equality, non-discrimination of sexual orientation, etc,etc, etc,veering well off the original aim of the uprising they started two decades ago resulting in deaths and sufferings of hundreds of thousands of youths and adults.
It does appear “Democracy” for people of Burma seems to be drinking liberal amount of alcohol – for BOTH genders or ALL genders-, wearing shorts and skirts, using cellphone and dreaming of Singapore. Oh- literary award ceremonies as Burma is so, so cultured and ADVANCED! Meanwhile they can blithely ignore the most cruel acts done to other humans in the daylight with not a flinch and ignore the people looted off their land all over the country as it means the country is “Progressing towards Democracy”. And there is much, much more to come. May be some place near you next time.
So with current sick and perverse climate, your assessment is spot on. Chinese in Burma are totally safe. All of them- old and new. Safer than ever in today’s “Astonishingly Reformed, Progressive” Burma where they are sucking out the life blood of the people more gushingly than ever with full support from their loyal slave Pyithu Arzarni Tatmadaw as well as loyal “Opposition”, a newer feature.
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
My apologies if I have been careless in my use of words. The interview was conducted for genuine reasons and not as any screen.
My perception of the New Mandala readership was that since the forum was university based I might reasonably expect responses if not from senior diplomats then at least from others who move in relevant academic circles.
If I am mistaken then again I am sorry. All I really wanted was advice on how to improve things where I am, i.e. suggestions on how to deal with the UNHCR. I will refrain from commenting on anything else.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Wow, Southeps latest speech is quite telling, BKK post reported: ‘He said the PDRC will not leave “a square inch” of Bangkok for Thaksin supporters and told those who disagreed with this move to leave the capital for good.
Its hard to see any hope for a peaceful resolution now that Southep is sincerely announcing that anyone who disagrees with his personal political ambitions should vacate Bangkok.
Its clear where he is going with this train of thought and it is not a unified Thailand where people of differing political persuasions can live together in peace and discuss their differences.
In Southeps world, political views can only be tolerated if they occur outside of his beloved Bangkok and the South where he and his ‘people’ demand absolute control over the reigns of power.
The big question is whether or not he will succeed in leveraging his overwhelming hate and ambition into widespread violence which could (potentially) achieve his long term goal of separating his beloved South and Bangkok from the rest of the nation.
If only the protestors would follow a balanced and thoughtful leader instead of a man seething with and preaching hate, I could then march along side the protestors to demand better governance and less corruption.
Interesting and dangerous times lay ahead for Thailand.
Thailand’s oligarchs are fighting
The term ‘brainwashed’ is of course inadequate. That said it works quite well as shorthand for a whole host of things that have been swept under the carpet for far too long. Politics here would seem to be just a symptom of some other deep-seated factor which no longer seems to work as well as it did in a more agrarian era. Does ‘arranged marriage’ ring any bells here? If it is a long-term easy-way-out of having too many headaches (an oft-heard complaint in times of infinitessimal pressure increase)in life, you might well learn to ‘love’ – regardless of your initial unease. Especially since unfettered romance all too often DOES lead to an abusive relationship. And being left on-the-shelf is, for many, a very real scenario too. People who have deliberately avoided this self-imposed ‘disconnect’, usually end up living and working elsewhere. Indeed, pretty much the same problem also seems to ail many long-term expats.