There is no proof that he really was the shooter (or even a shooter). The youth may have been wrong, more likely than not, and aside of his claim, there seems to be nothing to support it.
His being “old and ugly” is not inconsistent with how the term “students” has been applied by Thai media during those events.
Besides, don’t you get this problem more often? I mean the inability to distinguish between someone just pointing a finger at someone else on the one hand, and that someone else (may be even a group of people) being actually guilty as alleged on the other. Just asking.
The most likely outome of the curent crisis is that there will be a coup , by YOUNGER military officers. This is usually how such log-jam situations are resolved.
I don’t know if I’d say Buddhism is necessarily a peaceful religion by mandate, but I’d say it can’t be much worse than Islam. You don’t see Buddhist armies converting the Arabs to their religion throughout history, do you?
I think it’s pretty obvious that Thaksin has ignited and fanned the flames of a new democratic consciousness among rural people in the north and north-east. As is the fact of an entrenched aristocracy (if that term can be expanded to include the elements generally referred to in the “network monarchy” coinage) having generally “managed” Thai democracy in such a way as to maintain its priveleged position in the society and economy.
But we are not witnessing a series of Red Shirt rallies calling for enfranchisement; we are watching hundreds of thousands of Thais demonstrating over a long period of time to have the stain of democracy removed from the body politic altogether.
Not sure that this phenomenon is adequately explained or even touched on by transferring “Oligarchology 101” from Russia to Thailand or from a quick excursus into Aristotelian terminology; the people in the streets and on the social networks are NOT oligarchs and neither are they a peasant uprising following in Thaksin’s wake.
The author says “The riots were not racially or religious-inspired”, but is contributed by “the rise of ethnic enclaves of foreign workers” … isn’t it contradictory???
[…] that has had an estimated twenty Coup D’état attempts in the last 101 years with a debatable scorecard estimating 11 successful coups and 9 failed coups. Since 2005, protest movements and political […]
I am aware there are fights at CQ, so there are “sparks”. But the ground that these seem to fall upon are not as fissile as that of Sunday night. Nobody burns police cars. So we have to ask why.
My point in making that comparison (admittedly kind of cheeky) was that labor laws and working conditions specifically of Chinese and Indian laborers really deserve close scrutiny now (especially in comparison with other Southeast Asians who have a baseline to their wage). We can’t point our fingers at alcohol (because a lot of other places have big crowds of drunk foreigners) and we can’t point our fingers at something “cultural” (because where all of us foreign workers come from there are riots from time to time), rather, we need to see what else there is that made the ground so “dry”. Labor laws and working conditions seem to be a good enough place to start.
Pffff…….corruption, isn’t that THE story of Thailand. Are there any clean politicians? Corruption is almost a way-of-life for richer classes of Thailand. Crazy that this apparently is not in conflict with Buddhism, or am I being extremely naive now?
PPT cites ‘elite’ insider Crispen‘s line up for the personnel on a new, ‘civilian’ coup.
The makeup of the coup is immaterial, Thailand cannot afford to allow a dictatorship at this point in time. The people will not recognize an unelected government again. It is essentially a repeat of 2006 …because i worked so well, I guess, Seven years later it’s still groundhog day.
So the new coup will be have to be brutal, will have to purge politicians, disappear people … it will be a real reign of terror and any semblance of self-determination will have to be extinguished.
The Thai ‘elite’ have to reconcile themselves to democracy and play politics, not war.
The Western so-called ‘democracies’ need to refuse recognition to yet another coup in Thailand.
Interesting that no one seems interested in the question of why so many middle-class Thais are so vociferously onside with the evil and idiotic oligarchs.
The convenient fiction, again, that they are all just brainwashed robots or idiots like the people they support just won’t wash I’m afraid.
These people do not want democracy, preferring instead to trust in the good intentions of “good people”.
The question is why and what is needed to make democratic politics attractive to these people.
I suspect that calling them stupid and brainwashed isn’t going to do that. The fact that so many “liberals” (which is how I would describe myself, minus the scare quotes) can’t think of anything else, makes me wonder whether their liberalism is a matter of brainwashed idiocy or something that involves thought.
I still do not understand why the most crucial element (IMO) is not referred to.
Suthep is under indictment for MURDER. His best chance of avoiding having to stand trial is, to topple the government and take up a leading position or make sure whoever does favors him.
Then he will refer to the current (to be overthrown) government as having been illegitimate and, reasoning therefore the charges against him were baseless. Already a couple of weeks ago he tried to lead protestors in support of forcing the head of DSI to resign.
If Suthep can continue and actually win (or make enough impact) he might just be able to avoid the risk of being tried and possibly convicted for murder.
Also his ego. He knows well if he is convicted the history books will damn him for eternity.
I am annoyed by some commenters who seem to think (or lie for misleading purposes) Suthep is “clean”. He has a history of corruption going back to the early nineteen-nineties when he was caught giving away land meant for farmers to his own friends.
A bit of delving will show he has more than a few dubious dealing to explain, like the 2011 palm oil market surprises.
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Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
There is no proof that he really was the shooter (or even a shooter). The youth may have been wrong, more likely than not, and aside of his claim, there seems to be nothing to support it.
His being “old and ugly” is not inconsistent with how the term “students” has been applied by Thai media during those events.
Besides, don’t you get this problem more often? I mean the inability to distinguish between someone just pointing a finger at someone else on the one hand, and that someone else (may be even a group of people) being actually guilty as alleged on the other. Just asking.
Thailand’s oligarchs are fighting
The most likely outome of the curent crisis is that there will be a coup , by YOUNGER military officers. This is usually how such log-jam situations are resolved.
Review of Buddhist Fury
I don’t know if I’d say Buddhism is necessarily a peaceful religion by mandate, but I’d say it can’t be much worse than Islam. You don’t see Buddhist armies converting the Arabs to their religion throughout history, do you?
Thailand’s oligarchs are fighting
I think it’s pretty obvious that Thaksin has ignited and fanned the flames of a new democratic consciousness among rural people in the north and north-east. As is the fact of an entrenched aristocracy (if that term can be expanded to include the elements generally referred to in the “network monarchy” coinage) having generally “managed” Thai democracy in such a way as to maintain its priveleged position in the society and economy.
But we are not witnessing a series of Red Shirt rallies calling for enfranchisement; we are watching hundreds of thousands of Thais demonstrating over a long period of time to have the stain of democracy removed from the body politic altogether.
Not sure that this phenomenon is adequately explained or even touched on by transferring “Oligarchology 101” from Russia to Thailand or from a quick excursus into Aristotelian terminology; the people in the streets and on the social networks are NOT oligarchs and neither are they a peasant uprising following in Thaksin’s wake.
I am mystified. Anyone?
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Dek, has it ever occurred to you that you live in a red-shirt majority country?
The Little India riot – another view
The author says “The riots were not racially or religious-inspired”, but is contributed by “the rise of ethnic enclaves of foreign workers” … isn’t it contradictory???
Asbestos in Thailand
For the people of Thailand this is a game of Russian Roulette with Siam Cement and its backers and supporters in Government playing trigger happy.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Thanks Nick, Merci ! Take care yourself, try not to be too much involved, don’t forget we are just tolerated here.
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
Thai military chief rebuffs meeting request in blow to protesters … Reuters seems to think Suthep has had his 15 loooong minutes of fame and that we’re out of the fire and back into the frying pan. I hope they’re right.
Counting Thailand’s coups
[…] that has had an estimated twenty Coup D’état attempts in the last 101 years with a debatable scorecard estimating 11 successful coups and 9 failed coups. Since 2005, protest movements and political […]
The Little India riot – another view
I am aware there are fights at CQ, so there are “sparks”. But the ground that these seem to fall upon are not as fissile as that of Sunday night. Nobody burns police cars. So we have to ask why.
My point in making that comparison (admittedly kind of cheeky) was that labor laws and working conditions specifically of Chinese and Indian laborers really deserve close scrutiny now (especially in comparison with other Southeast Asians who have a baseline to their wage). We can’t point our fingers at alcohol (because a lot of other places have big crowds of drunk foreigners) and we can’t point our fingers at something “cultural” (because where all of us foreign workers come from there are riots from time to time), rather, we need to see what else there is that made the ground so “dry”. Labor laws and working conditions seem to be a good enough place to start.
Thailand’s 2013 protests in comparison
Pffff…….corruption, isn’t that THE story of Thailand. Are there any clean politicians? Corruption is almost a way-of-life for richer classes of Thailand. Crazy that this apparently is not in conflict with Buddhism, or am I being extremely naive now?
The king’s birthday speech
“,in a way that it could benefit the Shinawatra more than anyone else.”
Meaning unclear, ditto implications.
Please make clear.
The Little India riot – another view
Andrew
are you not aware of violence at CQ?
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Why is Princess Sirindhorn missing in all this ? Surely she would be publicly backing her brother in his brave efforts to resolve the crisis ?
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
PPT cites ‘elite’ insider Crispen‘s line up for the personnel on a new, ‘civilian’ coup.
The makeup of the coup is immaterial, Thailand cannot afford to allow a dictatorship at this point in time. The people will not recognize an unelected government again. It is essentially a repeat of 2006 …because i worked so well, I guess, Seven years later it’s still groundhog day.
So the new coup will be have to be brutal, will have to purge politicians, disappear people … it will be a real reign of terror and any semblance of self-determination will have to be extinguished.
The Thai ‘elite’ have to reconcile themselves to democracy and play politics, not war.
The Western so-called ‘democracies’ need to refuse recognition to yet another coup in Thailand.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Baa, I came here by link…
and after a few moment, I just notice that…
This is ” A RED-SHIRT PRESS ”
…
What a shame 😛
Thailand’s oligarchs are fighting
Interesting that no one seems interested in the question of why so many middle-class Thais are so vociferously onside with the evil and idiotic oligarchs.
The convenient fiction, again, that they are all just brainwashed robots or idiots like the people they support just won’t wash I’m afraid.
These people do not want democracy, preferring instead to trust in the good intentions of “good people”.
The question is why and what is needed to make democratic politics attractive to these people.
I suspect that calling them stupid and brainwashed isn’t going to do that. The fact that so many “liberals” (which is how I would describe myself, minus the scare quotes) can’t think of anything else, makes me wonder whether their liberalism is a matter of brainwashed idiocy or something that involves thought.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
For a Thai translation of this article, see http://thaienews.blogspot.de/2013/12/blog-post_1592.html
Thailand’s 2013 protests in comparison
I still do not understand why the most crucial element (IMO) is not referred to.
Suthep is under indictment for MURDER. His best chance of avoiding having to stand trial is, to topple the government and take up a leading position or make sure whoever does favors him.
Then he will refer to the current (to be overthrown) government as having been illegitimate and, reasoning therefore the charges against him were baseless. Already a couple of weeks ago he tried to lead protestors in support of forcing the head of DSI to resign.
If Suthep can continue and actually win (or make enough impact) he might just be able to avoid the risk of being tried and possibly convicted for murder.
Also his ego. He knows well if he is convicted the history books will damn him for eternity.
I am annoyed by some commenters who seem to think (or lie for misleading purposes) Suthep is “clean”. He has a history of corruption going back to the early nineteen-nineties when he was caught giving away land meant for farmers to his own friends.
A bit of delving will show he has more than a few dubious dealing to explain, like the 2011 palm oil market surprises.