More about the Red’s murderous attacks against Ramkhamhaeng U students: Chairman of university presidents council deplores education minister’s (Chaturon Chaisaeng) inaction over attacks against Ramkhamhaeng students
December 1, 2013 1:48 pm
The chairman of the Council of University Presidents of Thailand (CUPT) Sunday criticised Education Minister Chaturon Chaisang for declining to help Ramkhamhaeng University students when they were attacked by the red-shirt demonstrators.
Thammasat University Rector Somkid Lertpaithoon, the CUPT chairman, said Chaturon ignored the call for help from the Ramkhamhaeng University rector but he instead made a speech on the stage of the red-shirt rally in the Rajamangala stadium.
Somkid said Chaturon did not come out from the stadium to stop the red-shirt attacks.
“As the supervisor of universities, he should have stopped the violence and he has power to do so. I don’t understand why it happened so. The education minister has done nothing at all,” Somkit said.
Oh really, please write to me, on New Mandala, the web address for the Forbes article, as I doubt very much that he is only the 10th or 11th richest man in Thailand. Forbes usually does not do in depth articles on the top twenty richest people in a particular country, they list the top 1 or 2 in all countries that submit to the survey. I also doubt, since Thaksin himself will not reveal all his assets (including the ones in Zurich) only an approximate rounded number, that the so-called # 10 richest man in Thailand likely spoke to the foreign press.
Not likely. I await the direct source for your reference.
It shows Suthep and Abhisit trying to saw down a Sequoia-sized tree with a tiny hand saw on which is written “Thaksin’s regime” in Thai. The cartoon implies that former Deputy PM Suthep Thausuban and former PM Abhisit Vejjajiva from the Democrat Party are facing a great deal of difficulty trying to overthrow Yingluck’s government.
I also noticed that the anti-govt protestors had written graffiti aimed at the foreign media in English. On the barrier near the front line was written “FIALED STATE”, in which the letters “IA” had been overwritten with the correct spelling of “FAILED”, and on the road in front of that was also written “Don’t Cambodian to me!”, which I presume meant “Don’t act like a Cambodian toward me!”
Think what that word means. The good citizens of both China and Vietnam are able to bring to book representatives – elected representatives actually – who misbehave. I don’t ever see that happen in Thailand. Democracy tainted with impunity is not worth much.
Good posting. The case of Thai democracy today appears to the clash between sovereign-dominated tutelary democracy versus Hugo Chavez-esque delegative democracy. Both forms appear to have turned off a large number of Thais. Both forms appear to be unconsolidated variants. Dictatorship is no answer here. But should Thailand examine the option of consensus democracy…..though any such system would be shadowed by regality.
The basis of a defamation per se lawsuit is that the damages would be based on the destruction of his reputation as an objective professional journalist. Nick has completely disappeared from the photojournalist reporting scene in Bangkok because he knows that he cannot show his face anywhere due to the fact that his photograph has been widely circulated among the rabid anti-government forces after he was slandered, and he would be attacked again. He can no longer do his job, so his career has been essentially ruined in Thailand. The lifetime earnings of a photojournalist would be the minimum basis for the amount of damages.
I am quite aware of the fact that there is no functioning justice system in Thailand by which a foreigner can bring a civil suit like this for defamation. He could probably find a lawyer to take the case, but it would cost at least 100,000 baht up front, perhaps more, and then the case would be dragged out for years, especially if he is assigned to an unsympathetic judge. Even if he wins in court, there is the prospect of years of appeals.
Perhaps what would be more effective at this point would be the threat of a lawsuit to shut up his critics, without actually filing the suit. Then we could watch and see if he achieves any injunctive relief.
Beyond that, maybe he could pursue justice in Germany through the EU legal system. The Spanish courts have been quite involved in judicial advocacy in cases involving human rights violations. And after he gets a damage settlement in his favor, maybe he can get that same Bavarian court that issued a lien against the CP’s plane to attach a lien against property owned overseas by the Democrat Party and BlueSkyChannel TV network? Who knows? Stranger things have happened.
My advice would be to jail Thaksin and then discuss political alternatives. This obsessive devotion to Thaksin has no political justification, and given that Thaksin’s net worth is higher than the GDP of Colombia, certainly there is no economic justification.
China and Vietnam MORE democratic than Thailand ? You are joking, right ? Even under the worst case scenario, Thailand will always be more democratic than China, which is politically and ideologically incapable of incorporating democracy. Vietnam is not a particularly strong contender for democracy either. For all the fighting in the streets, and the corruption, and the role of the military, and the economic divides, the Thai Press is FREE, critical and interesting. Political parties, though they fight, are ALLOWED in Thailand. There is only one party in China and only one party in Vietnam and it will stay that way for a long long time.
For every few Thais and foreigners jailed on Lese Majeste charges, 2000 people are shot in China for just stealing food, and 2000 activists and Christians and journalists are jailed at the Hanoi Hilton. China a democracy ? Vietnam a democracy ? I think not. Look, Singapore has a per capita GDP greater than that of four European countries, Australia and New Zealand. Is Singapore a democracy? Why don’t you ask the two sole (and very lonely) opposition members in the Singaporean Parliament.
My neighbor went to the Rajamangala Stadium last Saturday evening (November 30) for the UDD red-shirt rally, and one message from them is very clear. If there is a coup, the red-shirts will come back to Bangkok in large numbers to oppose it. Therefore, the next attempted coup will be very bloody, and the Generals know that they cannot rely upon the support of the police or even the loyalty of their own troops to enforce it, and that they will have to kill a large number of red-shirt protestors to suppress the counter-coup reaction. I frankly don’t think they have any taste for the amount of violence that would be involved; therefore, a military coup at his time is out of the question. Furthermore, it would certainly not be led by Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha, who over the past several days has made his neutrality very clear.
Another point to be made is that the Thai military has been abundantly rewarded by the Peua Thai government. They have been given all the promotions they have sought (the number of generals and admirals is at an all time high, with something like twice the number that the US military has), and every piece of military hardware they have asked for has been approved. I don’t think they have any appetite to stop the gravy train.
Lack of respect for electoral mandates goes hand-in-hand with impunity and lack of respect for the law in general. The feudal state has some life in it yet – we might be seeing China or Vietnam projecting a more compelling model of democracy than Thailand in years to come.
What I don’t see in the discussions on the “turf war” among the elites of Thailand, is a realization that both sides are really just wanting to continue with “feudalism”. None of them seem to be really wanting to set the country up for a truly democratic government where rules and laws are respected. But more importantly, where the government becomes the true instrument of the people, rather than the plaything of elites and others for their own pleasure and enrichment.
Ironically, the more the military and royalist elite try to protect their interests the faster they will disappear. Thailand has transformed considerably in the last decade and the underprivileged are far more aware of how the elites are cheating them. They are also better organised now and so a coup will be met with much greater resistance than ever before even it results in a civil war of sorts with unpredictable consequences. What we are witnessing now is the last episode of the abolition of serfdom by Rama V that has dragged out much longer than anybody imagined. Thailand still has the chance to become a model of democracy in the future for the rest of Asia.
Ah, but what you don’t understand is elections are no good, the wrong party keeps wining. What we have to do is cancel all election for five years until all the bad politicians have gone away.
Now some people say bad politicians have been around for thousands of years and they are not going to disappear now. This is a negative attitude. We good people who were born to rule know that if the country had five years of our selected democracy the people would realize the error of their ways and forget all about Mr. Thaksin.
It is the young people’s apathy and the old people’s cynicism that allows the Tatmadaw to persist. Burma will not change quickly; Burma is not the Philippines, and while both Corazon Aquino and Daw Aung Suu Kyi are dynamic personalities, I do not anticipate mass protests of the type that induced Marcos (and Suharto in Indonesia) to leave office.
The change of which you speak should not be overestimated or misunderstood as it will only lead to ultimate disappointment, especially for the disillusioned youth. Burma is now ‘cool’ for the West because the United States and the United Kingdom have decided to engage with both the Tatmadaw and Daw Aung Suu Kyi and the bucolic exoticism of the Burmese countryside attracts those iconoclastic backpackers and naive young diplomats who want to be ahead of the pack for their own emotional benefit, but not necessarily to the benefit of Burma and its people. Faddishness in diplomacy is most unwise and leads to poor policy making. We have seen this in the past in Asia and other geographical regions.
“Given the uncertain character of recent street-level politics, the looming celebration of King Bhumibol Adulyadej’s birthday on 5 December, and the overall rambunctiousness of Thai political division, I guess a coup couldn’t be ruled out right now.”
Nich,
I have several responses. PM Yingluck is inexperienced and the Generals know it.
If there is to be a coup, and it is 50/50
at this point, it will NOT happen on the
King’s birthday in three days (EST). I agree with you that there are alternative mechanisms by which the current government
could end, but it is not clear that if PM
Yingluck calls for a referendum or a dissolution of the current government, that the present government won’t be replaced by another Shinawatra relative. Some anticipate that possibility with tempered glee; I do not.
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Uprooting the Thaksin regime
More about the Red’s murderous attacks against Ramkhamhaeng U students: Chairman of university presidents council deplores education minister’s (Chaturon Chaisaeng) inaction over attacks against Ramkhamhaeng students
December 1, 2013 1:48 pm
The chairman of the Council of University Presidents of Thailand (CUPT) Sunday criticised Education Minister Chaturon Chaisang for declining to help Ramkhamhaeng University students when they were attacked by the red-shirt demonstrators.
Thammasat University Rector Somkid Lertpaithoon, the CUPT chairman, said Chaturon ignored the call for help from the Ramkhamhaeng University rector but he instead made a speech on the stage of the red-shirt rally in the Rajamangala stadium.
Somkid said Chaturon did not come out from the stadium to stop the red-shirt attacks.
“As the supervisor of universities, he should have stopped the violence and he has power to do so. I don’t understand why it happened so. The education minister has done nothing at all,” Somkit said.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Chairman-of-university-presidents-council-
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Oh really, please write to me, on New Mandala, the web address for the Forbes article, as I doubt very much that he is only the 10th or 11th richest man in Thailand. Forbes usually does not do in depth articles on the top twenty richest people in a particular country, they list the top 1 or 2 in all countries that submit to the survey. I also doubt, since Thaksin himself will not reveal all his assets (including the ones in Zurich) only an approximate rounded number, that the so-called # 10 richest man in Thailand likely spoke to the foreign press.
Not likely. I await the direct source for your reference.
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
“Hugo Chavez-esque delegative democracy.”
???????
That is, at a minimum, an oxymoron, and at most incomprehensible, particularly with regard to Thailand.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
Suthep sold a large part of his land to fund the current round of protests didn’t he?
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Today the editor of 2Bangkok had this apropos political cartoon posted:
http://2bangkok.com/files/2013/11/131118posttoday.jpg
It shows Suthep and Abhisit trying to saw down a Sequoia-sized tree with a tiny hand saw on which is written “Thaksin’s regime” in Thai. The cartoon implies that former Deputy PM Suthep Thausuban and former PM Abhisit Vejjajiva from the Democrat Party are facing a great deal of difficulty trying to overthrow Yingluck’s government.
I also noticed that the anti-govt protestors had written graffiti aimed at the foreign media in English. On the barrier near the front line was written “FIALED STATE”, in which the letters “IA” had been overwritten with the correct spelling of “FAILED”, and on the road in front of that was also written “Don’t Cambodian to me!”, which I presume meant “Don’t act like a Cambodian toward me!”
Thailand’s elite coup culture
Think what that word means. The good citizens of both China and Vietnam are able to bring to book representatives – elected representatives actually – who misbehave. I don’t ever see that happen in Thailand. Democracy tainted with impunity is not worth much.
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Actually he’s only the 10th or 11th richest man in Thailand. According to Forbes.
Anyway, thanks, it’s always interesting to read about the problems of “obsessive devotion” in Thailand.
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Good posting. The case of Thai democracy today appears to the clash between sovereign-dominated tutelary democracy versus Hugo Chavez-esque delegative democracy. Both forms appear to have turned off a large number of Thais. Both forms appear to be unconsolidated variants. Dictatorship is no answer here. But should Thailand examine the option of consensus democracy…..though any such system would be shadowed by regality.
Assault on Nick Nostitz
The basis of a defamation per se lawsuit is that the damages would be based on the destruction of his reputation as an objective professional journalist. Nick has completely disappeared from the photojournalist reporting scene in Bangkok because he knows that he cannot show his face anywhere due to the fact that his photograph has been widely circulated among the rabid anti-government forces after he was slandered, and he would be attacked again. He can no longer do his job, so his career has been essentially ruined in Thailand. The lifetime earnings of a photojournalist would be the minimum basis for the amount of damages.
I am quite aware of the fact that there is no functioning justice system in Thailand by which a foreigner can bring a civil suit like this for defamation. He could probably find a lawyer to take the case, but it would cost at least 100,000 baht up front, perhaps more, and then the case would be dragged out for years, especially if he is assigned to an unsympathetic judge. Even if he wins in court, there is the prospect of years of appeals.
Perhaps what would be more effective at this point would be the threat of a lawsuit to shut up his critics, without actually filing the suit. Then we could watch and see if he achieves any injunctive relief.
Beyond that, maybe he could pursue justice in Germany through the EU legal system. The Spanish courts have been quite involved in judicial advocacy in cases involving human rights violations. And after he gets a damage settlement in his favor, maybe he can get that same Bavarian court that issued a lien against the CP’s plane to attach a lien against property owned overseas by the Democrat Party and BlueSkyChannel TV network? Who knows? Stranger things have happened.
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
My advice would be to jail Thaksin and then discuss political alternatives. This obsessive devotion to Thaksin has no political justification, and given that Thaksin’s net worth is higher than the GDP of Colombia, certainly there is no economic justification.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
China and Vietnam MORE democratic than Thailand ? You are joking, right ? Even under the worst case scenario, Thailand will always be more democratic than China, which is politically and ideologically incapable of incorporating democracy. Vietnam is not a particularly strong contender for democracy either. For all the fighting in the streets, and the corruption, and the role of the military, and the economic divides, the Thai Press is FREE, critical and interesting. Political parties, though they fight, are ALLOWED in Thailand. There is only one party in China and only one party in Vietnam and it will stay that way for a long long time.
For every few Thais and foreigners jailed on Lese Majeste charges, 2000 people are shot in China for just stealing food, and 2000 activists and Christians and journalists are jailed at the Hanoi Hilton. China a democracy ? Vietnam a democracy ? I think not. Look, Singapore has a per capita GDP greater than that of four European countries, Australia and New Zealand. Is Singapore a democracy? Why don’t you ask the two sole (and very lonely) opposition members in the Singaporean Parliament.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
Suthep sold a lot of his land to fund this didn’t he?
Thailand’s elite coup culture
Throwing out the King will not bring democracy to Thailand. Thailand has the capacity to be a democracy, I am not sure about a model though.
This is not the last episode; Thailand’s drama will continue for a while because the degree of political fracturing is deep and widespread.
Royalty is not the cause of Thailand’s problems. The Shinawatra Empire is, in part.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
My neighbor went to the Rajamangala Stadium last Saturday evening (November 30) for the UDD red-shirt rally, and one message from them is very clear. If there is a coup, the red-shirts will come back to Bangkok in large numbers to oppose it. Therefore, the next attempted coup will be very bloody, and the Generals know that they cannot rely upon the support of the police or even the loyalty of their own troops to enforce it, and that they will have to kill a large number of red-shirt protestors to suppress the counter-coup reaction. I frankly don’t think they have any taste for the amount of violence that would be involved; therefore, a military coup at his time is out of the question. Furthermore, it would certainly not be led by Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha, who over the past several days has made his neutrality very clear.
Another point to be made is that the Thai military has been abundantly rewarded by the Peua Thai government. They have been given all the promotions they have sought (the number of generals and admirals is at an all time high, with something like twice the number that the US military has), and every piece of military hardware they have asked for has been approved. I don’t think they have any appetite to stop the gravy train.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
Lack of respect for electoral mandates goes hand-in-hand with impunity and lack of respect for the law in general. The feudal state has some life in it yet – we might be seeing China or Vietnam projecting a more compelling model of democracy than Thailand in years to come.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
What I don’t see in the discussions on the “turf war” among the elites of Thailand, is a realization that both sides are really just wanting to continue with “feudalism”. None of them seem to be really wanting to set the country up for a truly democratic government where rules and laws are respected. But more importantly, where the government becomes the true instrument of the people, rather than the plaything of elites and others for their own pleasure and enrichment.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
Ironically, the more the military and royalist elite try to protect their interests the faster they will disappear. Thailand has transformed considerably in the last decade and the underprivileged are far more aware of how the elites are cheating them. They are also better organised now and so a coup will be met with much greater resistance than ever before even it results in a civil war of sorts with unpredictable consequences. What we are witnessing now is the last episode of the abolition of serfdom by Rama V that has dragged out much longer than anybody imagined. Thailand still has the chance to become a model of democracy in the future for the rest of Asia.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
Ah, but what you don’t understand is elections are no good, the wrong party keeps wining. What we have to do is cancel all election for five years until all the bad politicians have gone away.
Now some people say bad politicians have been around for thousands of years and they are not going to disappear now. This is a negative attitude. We good people who were born to rule know that if the country had five years of our selected democracy the people would realize the error of their ways and forget all about Mr. Thaksin.
Rolling with the times?
It is the young people’s apathy and the old people’s cynicism that allows the Tatmadaw to persist. Burma will not change quickly; Burma is not the Philippines, and while both Corazon Aquino and Daw Aung Suu Kyi are dynamic personalities, I do not anticipate mass protests of the type that induced Marcos (and Suharto in Indonesia) to leave office.
The change of which you speak should not be overestimated or misunderstood as it will only lead to ultimate disappointment, especially for the disillusioned youth. Burma is now ‘cool’ for the West because the United States and the United Kingdom have decided to engage with both the Tatmadaw and Daw Aung Suu Kyi and the bucolic exoticism of the Burmese countryside attracts those iconoclastic backpackers and naive young diplomats who want to be ahead of the pack for their own emotional benefit, but not necessarily to the benefit of Burma and its people. Faddishness in diplomacy is most unwise and leads to poor policy making. We have seen this in the past in Asia and other geographical regions.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
“Given the uncertain character of recent street-level politics, the looming celebration of King Bhumibol Adulyadej’s birthday on 5 December, and the overall rambunctiousness of Thai political division, I guess a coup couldn’t be ruled out right now.”
Nich,
I have several responses. PM Yingluck is inexperienced and the Generals know it.
If there is to be a coup, and it is 50/50
at this point, it will NOT happen on the
King’s birthday in three days (EST). I agree with you that there are alternative mechanisms by which the current government
could end, but it is not clear that if PM
Yingluck calls for a referendum or a dissolution of the current government, that the present government won’t be replaced by another Shinawatra relative. Some anticipate that possibility with tempered glee; I do not.