Moe Aung is right, and his message suggests that, sweeping though his analysis was, Furnivall was onto something. Both the British and the Tatmadaw ruled without reference to “social will”. As Dr Jory makes clear, The Economist really does not get it: the recent tragic violence in Meiktila exemplifies the plural society with with first the British and then the military left Myanmar. This violence reflects the need to foster the social will on display at times like the immediate aftermath of Cyclone Nargis. It suggest the applicability to Myanmar of Ashutosh Varshney’s findings on the determinants of a given locale’s likelihood to be the site of religious violence in India (see http://research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=1231360402 ). As for Keyes and his civic nationalism, well, that idea had its roots in the now generally ignored theorizing of Robert Bellah about the United States. Why bother with it? On the other hand, some years ago Dr Jory co-edited a book on Thailand that rather subtly suggested the the Phibunist project in mid-twentieth-century Thailand had the potential to create a more inclusive national identity for the country. Food for thought . . .
Interesting point about “civic nationalism”. But these things don’t develop overnight, whether in Christian or Buddhist or any other society. Even in the West it took centuries – see Leah Greenheld’s book on nationalism where she distinguishes between civic nationalism (the “individualistic” type which developed in England in the 17th century and America in the 18th, and the more statist French version after the Revolution; and the ethnic nationalism characteristic of Russia and Germany in the nineteenth and early twentieth century. Anthony Reid has discussed the problems of managing ethnically diverse Southeast Asian societies in the post-independence era using her categories in his recently edited volume “Imperial Alchemy”.
Yes, obviously the “rule of law” is desirable in situations like these. But for whatever reason the govt. and even the NLD seem unwilling to want to impose it.
While the present scenario is horrific and tragic, if we are looking for models of how things *might* develop we could compare Myanmar now with Indonesia following the collapse of the “New Order” military regime in 1998. Then it was the Indonesian Chinese who bore the brunt of the violent mobs of indigenous Indonesians (like in Myanmar, backed by the Indonesian military) following the breakdown of the New Order’s “plural society”. Then also there was a rise in religious fundamentalism.
15 years later “civic nationalism” in Indonesia has come a long way. Of course, Myanmar is not Indonesia, but one hopes Myanmar could follow a similar path.
Perpetuating the myth of the Christian Karen when Christians make up 25% of this group does not help. Proselytizing missions may have been encouraged by the military govt in the Chin hills, a political measure under a religious guise.
Bring back colonial rule. Hang on, the first race riots in Rangoon before WWII happened when the British port authorities broke an Indian dockers strike by bringing in Burmese labourers who decided to stay.
Bring back the military dictatorship. Hang on, it’s the govt that was behind the anti-Chinese riots in 1967 and later anti-Muslim riots.
Enlighten us please how a Buddhist polity displays a greater propensity to such communal strife.
not at all. i live and work in a buddhist country for >2 decades and know very well what i’m talking about. since this site is read by quite a few buddhist people i won’t get into a profound argument as it will only upset people and provoque anger (the classic reaction by religious folks, any kind whatsoever).
“A set of principles that one shall abide by diligently, to better oneself spiritually and physically”.
@#4 adding ‘at other expense’ to the simple golden definition of “Religion” above might just describe your apathy “How Religion Poisons Everything” if not your nom de guerre.
Neither wearing saffron nor mullah’s hat indicate among the two sides prove religion intolerance.
Clearly this ongoing recurrent spasm is extended by opportunists looters,thus mainly economic.
The women children and minority ALWAYS get the shorter end.
The tinder box of present minority Kala vs majority Bamar racial strife has been created only with the advent of colonial rule.
Since “the first Anglo Burma war” there has been virtual unchecked migration of Kala into Myanmar.
The British favor minority Kala within Myanmar as better royal colonial subjects from India has been a major factor.
In 1921 census up to 55% of Yangon residents were Kala mainly from S. Asia and the lingua franca then was Hindustani is but an anecdotal evidence.
Valued and promoted akin to other ethnic minorities by British as a divide and conquer strategy, purposely to discriminate against majority Bamar in every way .
Not withstanding the Muslim behavior towards Buddhism related aspects in Yakhine and within Bangladesh.
The Kala, mainly Muslim claiming legitimacy and acting on such, especially in Yakhine, resulted in recent multiple back lashes.
With Bamar Military in charge, and the ever undesirable untoward accouterments of a dictatorship, no better then the Colonial ‘divide and conquer strategy’ as well as ‘ruthless suppression by force’, instead of upholding Rule of Laws promoted the tinder box of racial strife with religious overtone. Ready to be ignited and fueled by economic desperation, lack of education and every whiff of rumor.
No where in S.E Asia with adequate Rule of Laws, a citizenry of combine Muslim, Buddhist and others , that can easily make ends meet, kill each other over religious differences.
Until Myanmar is again in an economic realm that create opportunity for it citizenry, with adequate RoL, where a citizenry has more to loose by killing each other over race, religion or any other factor these spasm of destructiveness will continue.
Shows how civic nationalism vaunted by people like Charles Keyes fails in Buddhist polities and how there is a need for Western style rule of law which is secular
Dialogue will have to address religious nationalism and ethnic absolutism on both sides to get beyond people being mobilized as Kafir and Kaek. Also Buddhist violence supported by a large woman needs to be acknowledged as causing divisions among people who have lived together as neighbours
Thanks for the analysis.
However since the signing of the intention to negotiate there is feeling on the ground the the security situation is actually deteriorating. Even Pettani is now relatively unsafe along the streets.
Secondly the process seems to be ignoring the people of the three provinces who dont appear to have any avenue of input into these negotiations and some fear that any agreement between the Thai govt and the insurgents will be an agreement between the Govt and a very small minority of Muslims out of the total population, who may have different aspirations.
Thirdly there is the crimminal element who may perceieve that any agreement may be counter to their interests and as a consequence may sabotage these talks through acts of violence.
Finally, there are so many small cells that are not still represented, which are almost acting automonously with diiferent aspirations who still have not joined the process.
One hopes patience doesnt run out.
“Democrat MP for Phitsanulok, Juti Krairiksh, also questioned why the government had increased the cost estimates for high-speed railways from about 300 million baht per kilometre to 600 million baht. He said high-speed railways in Spain cost only about 300 million baht per kilometre to build, even though daily wages in Europe were more than 10 times those of Thailand.”
Witn Thai criminal fugitive Thaksin directing the massive Baht 2.2 trillion (2013-2020) infrastructure projects and the funding of the trillions also even more suspiciously being structured as as not to be subject to rigorous Thai parliamentary oversight and debate, we could expect mega-corruption of unprecendented scale thereat.
Millennia of religion including Buddhism have failed to overcome human weakness. There has been no crusade or jihad in the name of Buddhism, no baptism or proselytizing. Defending it is not the same.
Education must take place not in segregated schools that perpetuate bigotry. Secularism of the enlightened West has never stopped wars waged directly or by proxy either.
The Buddha’s message encompasses more than man when the Buddhist prays, “May all sentient beings without exception be happy”.
er, one doesn’t have to speak the local language to get an idea of MM simple people’s “opinions”. ever since I first visited myanmar 17 years ago, the distrust (or plain hatred) between muslims and buddhists was obvious, and not only in rakhine state. no offense against buddhists, but the general (mass-) illusion that buddhism is a peaceful, tolerant belief is utterly crap. just look at the fascist junta, they were all devout buddhists (as were the Japanese nazis during WWII). myanmar is a failed state. hatred has been the key element over decades. just check the country’s history. the *only* solution is proper education and secularism. myanmar is 100 years behind so good luck to those who can be bothered.
Myanmar citizenry, as shown above agaim, as well as numerous post in New Mandala, is victims of ‘simplicity’. This aspect is the more magnified with the increasing distance from major cities.
Simplicity, a word, among others define a combination of being aloof, superstitious, religious etc making most at times real (for lack of a gentle term) “gullible”.
The willful disinformation from the West supported anti military entities as well as the military government divide and conquer are all contributory to the present quagmire.
After being deprived of real news and info, thanks to the excesses from struggles b/t the present military government and the West, what the West take for granted with the advent of 21th century unfiltered media intrusions, such as Blogs,Tweet and Facebook, are often taken as truthful.
No thanks to these hate mongers, even here at New Mandala, enough 1/2 truths around Yakhine and else where out there to sustain a tinder box status b/t Muslim and Buddhist communities.
Let us begin by questioning any questionable statements made here at New Mandala to not further exacerbate these ongoing events.
It will take a concerted effort to educate a citizenry, by all for a long period with projects that will offer hope, the best detractor, to all will then decrease the frequencies of this self destructive cycle of violence.
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On Myanmar’s plural society
Moe Aung is right, and his message suggests that, sweeping though his analysis was, Furnivall was onto something. Both the British and the Tatmadaw ruled without reference to “social will”. As Dr Jory makes clear, The Economist really does not get it: the recent tragic violence in Meiktila exemplifies the plural society with with first the British and then the military left Myanmar. This violence reflects the need to foster the social will on display at times like the immediate aftermath of Cyclone Nargis. It suggest the applicability to Myanmar of Ashutosh Varshney’s findings on the determinants of a given locale’s likelihood to be the site of religious violence in India (see http://research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=1231360402 ). As for Keyes and his civic nationalism, well, that idea had its roots in the now generally ignored theorizing of Robert Bellah about the United States. Why bother with it? On the other hand, some years ago Dr Jory co-edited a book on Thailand that rather subtly suggested the the Phibunist project in mid-twentieth-century Thailand had the potential to create a more inclusive national identity for the country. Food for thought . . .
On Myanmar’s plural society
Interesting point about “civic nationalism”. But these things don’t develop overnight, whether in Christian or Buddhist or any other society. Even in the West it took centuries – see Leah Greenheld’s book on nationalism where she distinguishes between civic nationalism (the “individualistic” type which developed in England in the 17th century and America in the 18th, and the more statist French version after the Revolution; and the ethnic nationalism characteristic of Russia and Germany in the nineteenth and early twentieth century. Anthony Reid has discussed the problems of managing ethnically diverse Southeast Asian societies in the post-independence era using her categories in his recently edited volume “Imperial Alchemy”.
Yes, obviously the “rule of law” is desirable in situations like these. But for whatever reason the govt. and even the NLD seem unwilling to want to impose it.
While the present scenario is horrific and tragic, if we are looking for models of how things *might* develop we could compare Myanmar now with Indonesia following the collapse of the “New Order” military regime in 1998. Then it was the Indonesian Chinese who bore the brunt of the violent mobs of indigenous Indonesians (like in Myanmar, backed by the Indonesian military) following the breakdown of the New Order’s “plural society”. Then also there was a rise in religious fundamentalism.
15 years later “civic nationalism” in Indonesia has come a long way. Of course, Myanmar is not Indonesia, but one hopes Myanmar could follow a similar path.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Now you are confusing religion for a red herring where the real fight is over control of land and other resources as inNorthern Ireland (p171).
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Perpetuating the myth of the Christian Karen when Christians make up 25% of this group does not help. Proselytizing missions may have been encouraged by the military govt in the Chin hills, a political measure under a religious guise.
On Myanmar’s plural society
Bring back colonial rule. Hang on, the first race riots in Rangoon before WWII happened when the British port authorities broke an Indian dockers strike by bringing in Burmese labourers who decided to stay.
Bring back the military dictatorship. Hang on, it’s the govt that was behind the anti-Chinese riots in 1967 and later anti-Muslim riots.
Enlighten us please how a Buddhist polity displays a greater propensity to such communal strife.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
not at all. i live and work in a buddhist country for >2 decades and know very well what i’m talking about. since this site is read by quite a few buddhist people i won’t get into a profound argument as it will only upset people and provoque anger (the classic reaction by religious folks, any kind whatsoever).
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
correction: bamarification of (christian) karen or chin people = a crusade or jihad in the name of Buddhism.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
“A set of principles that one shall abide by diligently, to better oneself spiritually and physically”.
@#4 adding ‘at other expense’ to the simple golden definition of “Religion” above might just describe your apathy “How Religion Poisons Everything” if not your nom de guerre.
Neither wearing saffron nor mullah’s hat indicate among the two sides prove religion intolerance.
Clearly this ongoing recurrent spasm is extended by opportunists looters,thus mainly economic.
The women children and minority ALWAYS get the shorter end.
The tinder box of present minority Kala vs majority Bamar racial strife has been created only with the advent of colonial rule.
Since “the first Anglo Burma war” there has been virtual unchecked migration of Kala into Myanmar.
The British favor minority Kala within Myanmar as better royal colonial subjects from India has been a major factor.
In 1921 census up to 55% of Yangon residents were Kala mainly from S. Asia and the lingua franca then was Hindustani is but an anecdotal evidence.
Valued and promoted akin to other ethnic minorities by British as a divide and conquer strategy, purposely to discriminate against majority Bamar in every way .
Not withstanding the Muslim behavior towards Buddhism related aspects in Yakhine and within Bangladesh.
The Kala, mainly Muslim claiming legitimacy and acting on such, especially in Yakhine, resulted in recent multiple back lashes.
With Bamar Military in charge, and the ever undesirable untoward accouterments of a dictatorship, no better then the Colonial ‘divide and conquer strategy’ as well as ‘ruthless suppression by force’, instead of upholding Rule of Laws promoted the tinder box of racial strife with religious overtone. Ready to be ignited and fueled by economic desperation, lack of education and every whiff of rumor.
No where in S.E Asia with adequate Rule of Laws, a citizenry of combine Muslim, Buddhist and others , that can easily make ends meet, kill each other over religious differences.
Until Myanmar is again in an economic realm that create opportunity for it citizenry, with adequate RoL, where a citizenry has more to loose by killing each other over race, religion or any other factor these spasm of destructiveness will continue.
On Myanmar’s plural society
Shows how civic nationalism vaunted by people like Charles Keyes fails in Buddhist polities and how there is a need for Western style rule of law which is secular
The KL process
Dialogue will have to address religious nationalism and ethnic absolutism on both sides to get beyond people being mobilized as Kafir and Kaek. Also Buddhist violence supported by a large woman needs to be acknowledged as causing divisions among people who have lived together as neighbours
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
[…] http://www.aljazeera.com/ (4) http://www.globalpost.com/969-anti-muslim-buddhist-riots-burma (5) http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/intolerance-islam-and-the-internet-in-burma-today/ (6) […]
The KL process
Thanks for the analysis.
However since the signing of the intention to negotiate there is feeling on the ground the the security situation is actually deteriorating. Even Pettani is now relatively unsafe along the streets.
Secondly the process seems to be ignoring the people of the three provinces who dont appear to have any avenue of input into these negotiations and some fear that any agreement between the Thai govt and the insurgents will be an agreement between the Govt and a very small minority of Muslims out of the total population, who may have different aspirations.
Thirdly there is the crimminal element who may perceieve that any agreement may be counter to their interests and as a consequence may sabotage these talks through acts of violence.
Finally, there are so many small cells that are not still represented, which are almost acting automonously with diiferent aspirations who still have not joined the process.
One hopes patience doesnt run out.
Corruption in Thailand
“Democrat MP for Phitsanulok, Juti Krairiksh, also questioned why the government had increased the cost estimates for high-speed railways from about 300 million baht per kilometre to 600 million baht. He said high-speed railways in Spain cost only about 300 million baht per kilometre to build, even though daily wages in Europe were more than 10 times those of Thailand.”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/343054/infrastructure-bill-sails-through
Witn Thai criminal fugitive Thaksin directing the massive Baht 2.2 trillion (2013-2020) infrastructure projects and the funding of the trillions also even more suspiciously being structured as as not to be subject to rigorous Thai parliamentary oversight and debate, we could expect mega-corruption of unprecendented scale thereat.
Campaigning on lèse-majesté
[…] 2. Kevin Hewison for New Mandala […]
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Millennia of religion including Buddhism have failed to overcome human weakness. There has been no crusade or jihad in the name of Buddhism, no baptism or proselytizing. Defending it is not the same.
Education must take place not in segregated schools that perpetuate bigotry. Secularism of the enlightened West has never stopped wars waged directly or by proxy either.
The Buddha’s message encompasses more than man when the Buddhist prays, “May all sentient beings without exception be happy”.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Perhaps you are confusing Buddhism with the monotheistic religions of the book that Gore Vidal referred to.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
[…] Schissler refers to the rise of an ‘anti-Muslim Buddhist nationalism.’ He mentions the posting of ‘969’ stickers and signs in some Buddhist […]
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
er, one doesn’t have to speak the local language to get an idea of MM simple people’s “opinions”. ever since I first visited myanmar 17 years ago, the distrust (or plain hatred) between muslims and buddhists was obvious, and not only in rakhine state. no offense against buddhists, but the general (mass-) illusion that buddhism is a peaceful, tolerant belief is utterly crap. just look at the fascist junta, they were all devout buddhists (as were the Japanese nazis during WWII). myanmar is a failed state. hatred has been the key element over decades. just check the country’s history. the *only* solution is proper education and secularism. myanmar is 100 years behind so good luck to those who can be bothered.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
//brief comment//
@all
just read God Is Not Great – How Religion Poisons Everything (2007) by Christopher Hitchens. and make sure to read all chapters.
I rest my case.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Myanmar citizenry, as shown above agaim, as well as numerous post in New Mandala, is victims of ‘simplicity’. This aspect is the more magnified with the increasing distance from major cities.
Simplicity, a word, among others define a combination of being aloof, superstitious, religious etc making most at times real (for lack of a gentle term) “gullible”.
The willful disinformation from the West supported anti military entities as well as the military government divide and conquer are all contributory to the present quagmire.
After being deprived of real news and info, thanks to the excesses from struggles b/t the present military government and the West, what the West take for granted with the advent of 21th century unfiltered media intrusions, such as Blogs,Tweet and Facebook, are often taken as truthful.
No thanks to these hate mongers, even here at New Mandala, enough 1/2 truths around Yakhine and else where out there to sustain a tinder box status b/t Muslim and Buddhist communities.
Let us begin by questioning any questionable statements made here at New Mandala to not further exacerbate these ongoing events.
It will take a concerted effort to educate a citizenry, by all for a long period with projects that will offer hope, the best detractor, to all will then decrease the frequencies of this self destructive cycle of violence.