A sweeping indictment of a Buddhist Citizenry and the government.
Quoting an obviously anti Islam monk to explain such recent inhumane acts leave no room for doubt to the less inform westerners, while absolutely neglecting the very genesis as well as what has been going on for months in and around Yakhine, the Muslim similar egregious acts against Buddhists.
Recall well BBC legitimization of Rohingyas/Kala, since absolutely refuted by most scholars/historian, as an ethnic group that started it all.
BBC is an arm of the British government the colonizers of the world tainted with blood of colonial legacy everywhere.
Recalling the last campaign of late great MahaBandula was pacification of Islamic Assam Manipur (mainly Bangladesh now)that the British used to start the 1st Anglo Burmese war.
Allowing an unchecked migration of obviously historically anti Buddhist entity inside Myanmar.
@Moe Aung: I’m nowhere perpetuating any myth. I know history, culture and even language of Karen people pretty good. I’m nowhere stating that more than 25% of Karen are Christian. Your arguments are aimless.
ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE. 56 YEARS ON BN AND TOTAL INCREASE IN CORRUPTION,CRONISM AND NEPOTISM.PUBLIC HAS LOST TRUST IN GOVERMENT AND ITS POLICIES.
LETS MANDATE FOR A TOTAL CHANGE FOR BETTERMENT.LETS MAKE MALAYSIA FOR MALAYSIAN FUTURE GENERATION BETTER.
It’s now up to Prime Minister Najib Razak and his advisers or the next leader of Malaysia on whether they want Malaysia to experience what the Philippines had undergone for the last 45 years of fighting insurgency.
This writer is delusional like the Sulu Sultan if he thinks the Tausuga/Suluks can be motivated to fight for Manila’s claim on Sabah. I’d advise him go check again, the Tausug’s war is more against Manila who tried to colonise them in those 45 years of insurgency when the Americans grant Philipines independence. Those 45 years of repression and treating the Muslims in the SOuth as 2nd class citizen will live long in the Moros minds. Please get your history right or you’ll just churn up garbage like this.
Don’t you think that avoid the conflict as a way of the conflict resolution has something to do with the culture of Asia, especially southeast Asia. Asean might not think those considerations you mentioned, rather than automatically accommodated its culture without being noticed.
Too right. The big difference in the sixties was that Suharto’s Indonesia was practically America’s baby with the finger prints of the CIA and the Ford Foundation all over whereas Ne Win’s Burma went into self isolation and autarky but tolerated by the US on account of his staunch anti-communism, the common denominator in both countries.
Caste and “class” discrimination is everywhere? Prove it by giving examples of “everywhere”, starting with all the 190 nations of the earth, don’t use “everywhere” if you have not lived everywhere. Back it with evidence, there are many countries where such things don’t exist in a society. Hindus killing low caste Hindus, Hindus killing Muslims and Christians, burning them alive in. If no Malays, the Tamils and Aryans will fight among each other. Hindraf’s links with Hindu extremists will only bring further retaliations from Muslim majority in Malaysia. Killing Muslims and Christians and then getting to gain support in a Muslim majority nation won’t get you no security. If Hindu nationalists can kill Muslims in India, they won’t hesitate to do the same to the Malaysian King himself if they had a chance. There is no room for Hindu extremism in Malaysia. Don’t impose artificial subcontinental identity on others.
I can second the writer’s comments that the sentiments he expressed below seem to be very true among Filipinos I have talked to:
“While the Malaysian government controlled media brands the RSA as terrorists, [the] majority of the Filipinos revere them as heroes and patriots, who fought for their rights and what rightfully belongs to them. And their death in Sabah will serve as a beacon for future would be RSA members.”
From what I can tell, the majority of Filipinos, Catholics and Muslims alike, appear very sympathetic to the Sulu cause. Malaysia is in peril of expanding this into a long term conflict because of their tough military tactics and their creation of at least 70 martyrs among Sultan Jamalul Kiram III’s Moro supporters.
Very true, Srithanonchai- it would be great to see more on Vietnam from New Mandala. I’ve recently come to Vietnam for work and I’m increasingly noticing protests and other forms of political dissidence on the streets. I’ve been told that some of it relates to “land reform”/compulsory land acquisitions, but it would be great to have some more informed analysis to help me unpick all of it. Goodness knows I’m not going to get that from the local press. 🙂
“It makes one wonder why Malaysia is seemingly unperturbed by what happened in Corregidor Island in 1968. It should be the Malaysians who should be commemorating the sacrifices of the Moro recruits and declare them heroes for foiling Operation Merdeka. This lack of appreciation of history is possibly one of the reasons why the handling of the ‘Sabah incursion’ has ended up in a bloody confrontation”
What a crap…. even if Marcos managed to pursue with the plan, do you think it will succeed? Sukarno did declared full blown confrontation and send many battalions into Malaysia back then that proved to be futile…
You should look at the history as a whole, instead of just one incident and come to the conclusion.
Re. the comparison between Indonesia and Myanmar, I’m not so sure. Like Myanmar, Indonesia has a dominant “core” ethnic group, the Javanese, which is dominant in the armed forces and government. Like Myanmar, Indonesia has experience of ethnic separatist movements and ethnic violence during periods of crisis. Like Myanmar, “commercial minorities” have been influential in Indonesia’s economy. Like Myanmar, in Indonesia at periods of crisis we see incidences of religious fundamentalism. The big difference I think is not religion, but Indonesia’s relative openness to the West under the New Order since 1966 – for better and for worse.
How Significant of “economic self-interest, mediated by the market,” as a factor that hold a pluralistic Society together need to be emphasized.
With Thailand the near identical neighbor and Malaysia as another proof.
The former never colonized yet both enjoyed uninterrupted economic development that Myanmar NEVER has.
Except for the similar colonial legacy by another European Country and Military dictatorship Indonesia has no relation to Myanmar future. 2 aspects; being Islamic and lack of constant ethnic unrest say it all.
That’s real Empire building in real time, I dare say! Money (in plural) can be made in a plural society with or without Social Will to Power ├а la Nietxsche lol
Thai-ness defined everywhere, recognizing the King as next to deity, clearly shown in every royal exhibition, King right below Buddha, holding everyone together has nearly run it course with the aging monarch.
This is a pragmatic way of putting out for s future, where the ethnic and religious groups are as diverse and potentially negative as seen in neighboring Myanmar.
A lesson Thein Sein/ Daw Aung San Suu Kyi can copy, to the hilt from.
Thanks for this detailed update of the current negotiations. It’s very useful.
I’m not privy to all the security and intelligence reports, so I could be completely wrong. But like A Islam, I’m much less optimistic about the chances of any “breakthrough” in these talks.
My view is that the situation in the south is just a “sideshow” to the main conflict that has been going on in Bangkok since 2005. I just can’t see how anything in the south will be resolved until this much bigger, in fact “historic”, conflict in Bangkok is resolved. The stakes are too high in Bangkok for the conflict in the south to matter that much.
I think the current status quo (i.e. on-going low level violence) actually suits all parties in the conflict.
I don’t think the military really wants a resolution; they have too much to gain financially and politically for the conflict to continue (“politically”, because the military could easily use the situation in the south to destabilize the Thaksin government if it needed to).
I think the last thing KL would want would be any “autonomy” agreement in the south, with a radical Patani “Malay Muslim” leadership in power, for the signal it might send to its Malays in the north of the country bordering Patani, who already vote for the opposition PAS and who have long-standing kinship and historical connections with Patani.
The Thai “Establishment” treats Patani as a family heirloom; there’s no way they would give it up willingly (although with one of the family apparently unwell, this factor in the equation may have changed slightly). In any case, they would have the final say on any agreement, and nothing in the last 60+ years inspires any confidence that they would be willing to give in on such an issue as “autonomy” – which is the only outcome of the talks that would really mean anything.
I don’t think Thaksin really cares that much about what is happening in the south, except perhaps to the extent that the issue could be used as a bargaining chip in his struggle with “Mordor”.
It’s hard to believe the militants are so na├пve as not to realize all this. After all, they have been playing this game for the best part of 400 years and so have vast experience negotiating with Bangkok – and of usually being double-crossed. I think they are in this struggle for the long haul and would only negotiate seriously from a position of greater strength than they currently have.
Of course, for KL it makes the UMNO govt. look good to the ethnic Malay voters in an election year. It gives Najib an opportunity to portray himself as a “Malay statesman”, solving disputes involving “Malay Muslims” throughout the “Malay world” – in other words to appeal to the UMNO-voting, sometimes chauvinistic Malay heartland.
Because the current status quo suits everyone, none of the parties has any problem going into talks, because (i) talks always looks better than “no talks”; and (ii) they know nothing will change so there’s nothing to lose.
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GE13 Malaysia – Tricia Yeoh
[…] GE13 Malaysia – Tricia Yeoh […]
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Chilling indeed.
A sweeping indictment of a Buddhist Citizenry and the government.
Quoting an obviously anti Islam monk to explain such recent inhumane acts leave no room for doubt to the less inform westerners, while absolutely neglecting the very genesis as well as what has been going on for months in and around Yakhine, the Muslim similar egregious acts against Buddhists.
Recall well BBC legitimization of Rohingyas/Kala, since absolutely refuted by most scholars/historian, as an ethnic group that started it all.
BBC is an arm of the British government the colonizers of the world tainted with blood of colonial legacy everywhere.
Recalling the last campaign of late great MahaBandula was pacification of Islamic Assam Manipur (mainly Bangladesh now)that the British used to start the 1st Anglo Burmese war.
Allowing an unchecked migration of obviously historically anti Buddhist entity inside Myanmar.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
@Moe Aung: I’m nowhere perpetuating any myth. I know history, culture and even language of Karen people pretty good. I’m nowhere stating that more than 25% of Karen are Christian. Your arguments are aimless.
GE13 Malaysia – Sonia Randhawa
ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE. 56 YEARS ON BN AND TOTAL INCREASE IN CORRUPTION,CRONISM AND NEPOTISM.PUBLIC HAS LOST TRUST IN GOVERMENT AND ITS POLICIES.
LETS MANDATE FOR A TOTAL CHANGE FOR BETTERMENT.LETS MAKE MALAYSIA FOR MALAYSIAN FUTURE GENERATION BETTER.
‘Face-saving’ solution to Sabah
It’s now up to Prime Minister Najib Razak and his advisers or the next leader of Malaysia on whether they want Malaysia to experience what the Philippines had undergone for the last 45 years of fighting insurgency.
This writer is delusional like the Sulu Sultan if he thinks the Tausuga/Suluks can be motivated to fight for Manila’s claim on Sabah. I’d advise him go check again, the Tausug’s war is more against Manila who tried to colonise them in those 45 years of insurgency when the Americans grant Philipines independence. Those 45 years of repression and treating the Muslims in the SOuth as 2nd class citizen will live long in the Moros minds. Please get your history right or you’ll just churn up garbage like this.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
[…] Schissler refers to the rise of an ‘anti-Muslim Buddhist nationalism.’ He mentions the posting of ‘969’ stickers and signs in some Buddhist […]
ASEAN non-interference and the Sabah conflict
Don’t you think that avoid the conflict as a way of the conflict resolution has something to do with the culture of Asia, especially southeast Asia. Asean might not think those considerations you mentioned, rather than automatically accommodated its culture without being noticed.
Everyday ethnic tensions in Myanmar
Utterly chilling report from BBC’s Jonathan Head…..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22022967
On Myanmar’s plural society
Too right. The big difference in the sixties was that Suharto’s Indonesia was practically America’s baby with the finger prints of the CIA and the Ford Foundation all over whereas Ne Win’s Burma went into self isolation and autarky but tolerated by the US on account of his staunch anti-communism, the common denominator in both countries.
Malaysian Indians: A sad story
Caste and “class” discrimination is everywhere? Prove it by giving examples of “everywhere”, starting with all the 190 nations of the earth, don’t use “everywhere” if you have not lived everywhere. Back it with evidence, there are many countries where such things don’t exist in a society. Hindus killing low caste Hindus, Hindus killing Muslims and Christians, burning them alive in. If no Malays, the Tamils and Aryans will fight among each other. Hindraf’s links with Hindu extremists will only bring further retaliations from Muslim majority in Malaysia. Killing Muslims and Christians and then getting to gain support in a Muslim majority nation won’t get you no security. If Hindu nationalists can kill Muslims in India, they won’t hesitate to do the same to the Malaysian King himself if they had a chance. There is no room for Hindu extremism in Malaysia. Don’t impose artificial subcontinental identity on others.
‘Face-saving’ solution to Sabah
I can second the writer’s comments that the sentiments he expressed below seem to be very true among Filipinos I have talked to:
“While the Malaysian government controlled media brands the RSA as terrorists, [the] majority of the Filipinos revere them as heroes and patriots, who fought for their rights and what rightfully belongs to them. And their death in Sabah will serve as a beacon for future would be RSA members.”
From what I can tell, the majority of Filipinos, Catholics and Muslims alike, appear very sympathetic to the Sulu cause. Malaysia is in peril of expanding this into a long term conflict because of their tough military tactics and their creation of at least 70 martyrs among Sultan Jamalul Kiram III’s Moro supporters.
Impatience in Viet Nam
Very true, Srithanonchai- it would be great to see more on Vietnam from New Mandala. I’ve recently come to Vietnam for work and I’m increasingly noticing protests and other forms of political dissidence on the streets. I’ve been told that some of it relates to “land reform”/compulsory land acquisitions, but it would be great to have some more informed analysis to help me unpick all of it. Goodness knows I’m not going to get that from the local press. 🙂
‘Face-saving’ solution to Sabah
“It makes one wonder why Malaysia is seemingly unperturbed by what happened in Corregidor Island in 1968. It should be the Malaysians who should be commemorating the sacrifices of the Moro recruits and declare them heroes for foiling Operation Merdeka. This lack of appreciation of history is possibly one of the reasons why the handling of the ‘Sabah incursion’ has ended up in a bloody confrontation”
What a crap…. even if Marcos managed to pursue with the plan, do you think it will succeed? Sukarno did declared full blown confrontation and send many battalions into Malaysia back then that proved to be futile…
You should look at the history as a whole, instead of just one incident and come to the conclusion.
On Myanmar’s plural society
Re. the comparison between Indonesia and Myanmar, I’m not so sure. Like Myanmar, Indonesia has a dominant “core” ethnic group, the Javanese, which is dominant in the armed forces and government. Like Myanmar, Indonesia has experience of ethnic separatist movements and ethnic violence during periods of crisis. Like Myanmar, “commercial minorities” have been influential in Indonesia’s economy. Like Myanmar, in Indonesia at periods of crisis we see incidences of religious fundamentalism. The big difference I think is not religion, but Indonesia’s relative openness to the West under the New Order since 1966 – for better and for worse.
On Myanmar’s plural society
How Significant of “economic self-interest, mediated by the market,” as a factor that hold a pluralistic Society together need to be emphasized.
With Thailand the near identical neighbor and Malaysia as another proof.
The former never colonized yet both enjoyed uninterrupted economic development that Myanmar NEVER has.
Except for the similar colonial legacy by another European Country and Military dictatorship Indonesia has no relation to Myanmar future. 2 aspects; being Islamic and lack of constant ethnic unrest say it all.
GE13 Malaysia – Sonia Randhawa
[…] By Greg Lopez New Mandala 3 April 2013 […]
On Myanmar’s plural society
I don’t know much about John S. Furnivall’s academic ramblings on “plural colonial societies” and other “semantic musings”, but another much more pragmatic British “Realpolitiker” with an impeccable sense for economic and moral values, ex-PM Tony Blair, is certainly doing his thing and making a quick dirty buck in Burma, just like many Brits before him! See:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301755/Blair-heads-gold-rush-Burma-Former-Prime-Minister-opens-new-personal-empire-junta-relaxes-grip.html
That’s real Empire building in real time, I dare say! Money (in plural) can be made in a plural society with or without Social Will to Power ├а la Nietxsche lol
The KL process
Thai-ness defined everywhere, recognizing the King as next to deity, clearly shown in every royal exhibition, King right below Buddha, holding everyone together has nearly run it course with the aging monarch.
This is a pragmatic way of putting out for s future, where the ethnic and religious groups are as diverse and potentially negative as seen in neighboring Myanmar.
A lesson Thein Sein/ Daw Aung San Suu Kyi can copy, to the hilt from.
On Myanmar’s plural society
I will be very careful suggesting Western style RoL over Buddhist polities.
Especially knowing the former is Judio-Christian base. Ironically so is Islamic.
The KL process
Thanks for this detailed update of the current negotiations. It’s very useful.
I’m not privy to all the security and intelligence reports, so I could be completely wrong. But like A Islam, I’m much less optimistic about the chances of any “breakthrough” in these talks.
My view is that the situation in the south is just a “sideshow” to the main conflict that has been going on in Bangkok since 2005. I just can’t see how anything in the south will be resolved until this much bigger, in fact “historic”, conflict in Bangkok is resolved. The stakes are too high in Bangkok for the conflict in the south to matter that much.
I think the current status quo (i.e. on-going low level violence) actually suits all parties in the conflict.
I don’t think the military really wants a resolution; they have too much to gain financially and politically for the conflict to continue (“politically”, because the military could easily use the situation in the south to destabilize the Thaksin government if it needed to).
I think the last thing KL would want would be any “autonomy” agreement in the south, with a radical Patani “Malay Muslim” leadership in power, for the signal it might send to its Malays in the north of the country bordering Patani, who already vote for the opposition PAS and who have long-standing kinship and historical connections with Patani.
The Thai “Establishment” treats Patani as a family heirloom; there’s no way they would give it up willingly (although with one of the family apparently unwell, this factor in the equation may have changed slightly). In any case, they would have the final say on any agreement, and nothing in the last 60+ years inspires any confidence that they would be willing to give in on such an issue as “autonomy” – which is the only outcome of the talks that would really mean anything.
I don’t think Thaksin really cares that much about what is happening in the south, except perhaps to the extent that the issue could be used as a bargaining chip in his struggle with “Mordor”.
It’s hard to believe the militants are so na├пve as not to realize all this. After all, they have been playing this game for the best part of 400 years and so have vast experience negotiating with Bangkok – and of usually being double-crossed. I think they are in this struggle for the long haul and would only negotiate seriously from a position of greater strength than they currently have.
Of course, for KL it makes the UMNO govt. look good to the ethnic Malay voters in an election year. It gives Najib an opportunity to portray himself as a “Malay statesman”, solving disputes involving “Malay Muslims” throughout the “Malay world” – in other words to appeal to the UMNO-voting, sometimes chauvinistic Malay heartland.
Because the current status quo suits everyone, none of the parties has any problem going into talks, because (i) talks always looks better than “no talks”; and (ii) they know nothing will change so there’s nothing to lose.
As I say, I hope I’m wrong.