Comments

Classic. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.

On “Thailand’s increasingly professional army” –

Ok, what evidence do you base this claim on?

That it buys lots of weapons?

Anyway, here’s some unofficial “peer review” of your statement.

There was nothing at all professional about how it handled its last major “combat” engagement – slaughtering the Red Shirts on the streets of Bangkok in 2010.

What was it about empty beer bottles found on the sky train line above Wat Patum?

Increasingly professional?

Or the way 1000s of soldiers at Kok Wua ran away in complete disarray, firing wildly at unarmed civilians, leaving behind mountains of rifles, ammunition and even a couple of APCs?

Increasingly professional?

Towing 100s refugees out to sea to leave them to die of starvation or thirst?

Increasingly professional?

That little incident up on the Mekong where all those Chinese sailors turned up, hands bound and executed?

Increasingly professional?

Helicopters crashing out of the sky at an alarming rate?

Increasingly professional?

Firing cluster munitions into civilian areas in Cambodia?

Increasingly professional?

I could go on… but you get the picture.

Response to R. N. England:

Your comment seems incredibly naive. “Poor Hun Sen” does not have a spotless record with respect to concessions, particularly in Prey Long. See the Global Witness report ‘Cambodia’s Family Tree’.

When talking about minority rights Democracy is only a slogan in Burma
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Burma’s democracy problem is not necessarily a problem of military rule; it is a problem of its historic tradition of seeing the minorities as being guest people. Such traditional leaders and their followers nurtured this type of mindset for generations causing suffering to the minorities. With such mentality leaders practice forced labour, rape genocide and extermination of the minorities.
True, colonial demarcation of lines has not always been just. Ethnic groups almost always lived on both side of the border. Thus, Thais are Shans in Burma, Indian Nagas are Chins in Burma. Rohingyas of Burma concentrated in northern Arakan look very much like people of Chittagong. RakhineMoghs in Bangladesh looks like the Rakhines of Arakan. Neither in China, nor in India, or in Thailand or in Bangladesh the existence of such minorities is questioned as in Arakan of Burma. Unfortunately the leaders of such ethnic cleansing movement are educated people as Dr. Aye Kyaw, Dr. Aye Chan, Monk Ashine Nayaka, ( living in the West and enjoying Western freedom and citizenship rights). They find pleasure in freely propagating lies about the historic Rohingya existane in Arakan. They in their writings openly justify Rohingya genocide by calling them even as “Influx viruses”required to be exterminated before the “Virus” exterminate them. Year after year refugees have been taking shelter in the neighbouring countries bringing bad reputation for Burma. These intellectuals secretely do also profess Arakan’s independence.
Except in Burma, all the above countries around Burma accept minorities as their co citizens. In Burma, Rohingyas were officially declared in 1982 as illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. It seems that the old fashioned leaders, in not being able to change their age old xenophobic mindset about their minorities, Burma will continue to be burdened with xenophobic ideas for its march to freedom and democracy.

In mature democracies, free and fair elections are the norm in changes in ruling parties.

It is interesting to see that supporters of Barisan Nasional argue that the movement for free and fair elections is about forceful regime change as though it was tantamount to a coup.

Let Malaysians have free and fair elections by meeting the eight (or at least four) demands of BERSIH as a first step.

Then all Malaysians will know that their voice have been heard.

Yes, it seems fairly obvious that the Thai military has not disengaged from politics. I doubt many will be surprised with your conclusions.

Neptunian sir,

Thank you for your interest in the issue.

When you said -“Where does it say in the Koran that one Muslim can dictate to another how they should lead their live? Let Allah be the judge, if you so believe. ..”- Well Islam and the Holy Koran stipulated it as the concept of ‘da’wah’.

There are differences in opinions in the issue of apostasy even in most Sunni school of thought. Today as we speak, there are thousands of Muslims who living their lives not as a true Muslim anymore; they do not fast in Ramadhan, they take their ‘solat’ very lightly, but they still call themselves as a Muslim. In one of the Prophet (pbuh) hadith it was said that – ‘When the world becomes close to the end, the Muslims will be like bubbles at the sea, they are many but they burst easily.’ One part of the sharia law is the maslahah of the ummah. That is why Islam draws a line to what is punishable at the maximum. To carry a marijuana in 0.25gm is maybe just a 1 or 2 year prison sentence, but to carry 25kg, that is totally to the gallows.

One Islamic scholars may view that an apostate should be punishable for a death sentence, and one may view the other. Why? One may have a slightest disbelief, then the death penalty is not for him. There are many Muslims who might have lost faith in Islam, for several thousands reasons, and if they keep that for themselves, no one will knew. They dont get the punishment. But if you declare publicly that is another issue, Why? The jamaah will loosen. That is sort of degrading in another way, some might get insulted. We don’t see ourselves as -“usurping Allah’s authority when you dictate what Allah is suppose to say”, instead that is the concept of ‘amar maa’ruf and nahi munkar’. When counsel or da’wah will bring them back to the straight path.

I just put together what I can find about the case of Natthakarn Sakuldarachat here:
http://slashdot.org/journal/276134/thai-girl-could-be-tried-in-juvenile-court-for-facebook-post
Thanks to Somsak Jeamteerasakul. Note the Bangkok Post just covered this story.

I remember talking to some of the burmese workers in Khao Shan Road who work as touts or tailors. Heard some incredible stories and amazing how many of them despite their hardships and lack of language school attendance had fluently learnt more than one language like English, German and Japanese in order to drum up as much business as possible. I also remember one guy saying I was rich cos I had enough money to buy a beer in a restaurant. My big respect to these talented people

Dialogue with Mr. Min Shwe
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Understanding the Rohingya People: Similarities and differences between Bengalis and the Rohingya people of Arakan (part 2)

Arakan located in the racial faultline, the tiny kingdom continuously was exposed to attack from the Burmese invasions in the East and the Bengali gour kingdom in the West. To tacle this it had to know the balancing act which most often didn’t work as it was in 1430 the unexpected happened. Arakan was invaded by Burma. To save his life King Noromikhla escaped to Bengal. He stayed there for closed to two decades after which he came with a Bengali general to capture his lost kingdom. With this Arakan became a Bengali province of the Gaur. Due to the interaction with Bengal, a great civilization was developed at Mrohaung.
During this period, more people joined in the original Chandra-Arab Rohingya stock, such as the soldiers from general Wali Khan and of Sindhi Khan settled in Arakan. The Muslim title and coins and the official language being Persian during the Mrohaung period testifies Muslim presence.
However, starting from 1531 Arakan reasserted itself as an independent Mogh kingdom. During this time, in alliance with the Portuguge, through raids Bengali people in the lower Bengal were depopulated, captured and brought to Arakan as slaves. They were sent back to Kaladan valley to work in agriculture. Chakmas of Chittagong Hill Tracts left Arakan during this period to avoid in the Chakma terms “Mogher Upodrop”(to avoid the maruding Moghs). It says ” Biray galay Baghe Khai, ghore thaklae Moghr Phai” ( We we go out we are eaten by tiger and if we stay home we are captured by the Moghs. From these days onward the term Mogher Mulluk (Land of the Mags or maruders came into usage.

Arakan and Chittagong in Particular continued to receive Arab, Bengali and Persian influence both demographically and linguistically due to their location by the sea. While Bengal in general kept its Pali and Sanskrit character, Arakan and Chittagong continued to receive Arabic-Persian influence so much so that even now both Rohingya and Chittagonian dilect shows differences with Bengali. The negative first”No Jaium” (Not I shall go) in both Chittagonian and the Rohingya is different from what we see in Bengali “Ami Jabo na”(I will not go) the earlier one negative first follows a Persian style. Which means that from the time of the Chandras, to Noromikhla’s Arabic and Persian influence both in demography and in language was so strong in this region of north Arakan and Chittagong that to an outsider Rohingya language and Chittagonian language sounds similar. During this time, Arakan had historical Sindi Khan Mosque inside the Mrohaung city destroyed by the invading Burmese army in 1784. Arakan had also the name of the River Kaladan (valleys donated for settlements to the kala armies of General Wali Khan and general Sind Khan, Kalapanjer (perhaps meaning the five blackman advisors). The place Akyab similar to Punjab in India, a Persian name. Now from their historic name change from Mogh to Rakhine, all these above Muslim names were also changed by the Rakhine Mogh ultranationalists into names of their religios and racial choice .

(4)Unlike Arakan’s geographical location as if it is a part of India seperated from Burma by the Arakan yoma, Indian population settlement in this region is normal compared to people of Sumatra who were only visited by the missionaries from India, understandably, there was no mass migration to those areas from India.

During the entire Mruk U period Muslim settlement from Muslim countries and from Bengal remained continious; the captured Bengali slaves or people as the solders of fortune predominated in the Muslim settlements. During this time Muslims were king makers. Arakan’s largest largest Mosque, Jame-Mosjid was constructed in the 17th century.

Muslims arrival in Arakan effectively stopped after the murder of Shah Suja by the Mogh king in the year 1666 AD. Shah Suja, the Moghul governor of Bengal was assured of giving shelter in Arakan, but was killed along with his entire family. During this time, Aloal and many other Rohingyas had to flee Arakan for Chittagong.
This event was followed the Moghul emperor reconquring Chittagong reducing Arakan into a very tiny kingdom. The final blow however came when in 1784 Arakan was invaded by Bura and made it province of Burma. Arakan once a famous kingdom now is only famous internationall for producing refugees, protesting against the BBC.
Despite the lose of the kingdom, Rakhine attack on Rohingyas continues till today. After Budapawa’s invasion in 1784 Arakan was turned almost a land without people. Where did all these Rohingyas go? They (both Moghs and Rohingyas) left Arakan to settle in the safe heaven in Southern Chittagong. There are Mogh settlements in Chittagong and Chittagong Hill Tracts from this and from previous period. More than half of the people of Southern Chittagong from Sangha River upto the Naff River are known to be inhabited by the Rohingya inhabitants of Arakan. After Buddapawa’s invasion, some Moghs settled in Cox’s Bazar like their causins in Arakan lately changed their name from Mogh into Rakhines during Bangladesh President Ershad’s time in the late 80’s but in Bangladesh no body bothers about it understandly because Rakhine Moghs are rightfully Bangladeshi citizens and they have the right to chose their names.
As mentioned earlier, Rakhine-Mogh ultranationalist movement in Arakan began from the 30’s with the name change from Mogh to Rakhine, it also increased its official propaganda of “Islamphobia.”Whereas Muslim people’s migration effecitively stopped from the time of Shah Suja’s death, the ultranationalists in their bigotarily shamelessly call Muslims of Arakan as being “Chittagonians” or “Bengalis.” In their systematic ethnic cleansing effort, with place name changes and physically destroying Muslim presence in Arakan, Muslims of Arakan were also lumped together with the migrated Indian population to Burma during the British period. While the name “Rohingya was already existant in Arakan, Muslim leaders to claim their indigenous status distinct from the migrant Indian Muslims, during the 50’s they took officially the name”Rohingya”as a survival mechanism to live and face the common destiny. Even this didn’t help, with the rise ultranationalism, racism and religious bigotary RakhineMoghs from the 30’s continued massacring their fellow Rohingyas from 1942, 1960, 1962 and in 1978 and in 1991-92. In the latest large scale one, over 300, 000 Rohingyas were forced out of Arakan. Despite such attacks and oppression to the level of Rohingya genocide, Rakhine Moghs posing as gentleman in their ethnic cleansing attempts continue to use the Burmese military with the claim that Rohingyas are Bengalis and even “Influx viruses”says Aye Chan. Unfortunately Rakhine Moghs are only 5% of Burma’s population but occupies 30% of Burma’s armed forces, and in high positions perhaps works as obstacles to democratic development in Burma.

Rohingya similarities with Chittagonians was that both spoke in proto-chittagonian dialect but differences was while Rohingyas lived in a buddhist environment but Chittagonians in the Muslim environment of Bengal. While Muslim settlements in Arakan was historically immense, the military government of UNu along the Rakhine Mogh ultranationalists consider Rohingyas settlement in Arakan coincided with the British arrival in 1824-25. “This is the starting point of the present trouble.”” This way of understanding doesn’t take into consideration that” Burma was administered as a Province of British empire and Often times the British lumped the Rohingyas as the Chittagonians or Indian Muslims thus in this bigotary, Rohingya suffering in this racial faultline of Arakan continues.