Sadly it’s their extremist leaders who brought it on these unfortunate people, discriminated against as a result on both sides of the border.
The Mujahid rebellion ( no Rohingya in the national lexicon for another ten years yet) started alongside the Rakhine nationalist rebellion even before independence, demanding an independent Islamic state or wanting to join East Pakistan. Today they have made it worse by involving their fellow Jihadis and powerful Islamic states around the world as well as putting out the myth of being initial settlers on the Arakan coast insisting on calling the native people Maghs (bandits in Bengali).
Arakan/Arakanese is English. In Burmese it has always been Yakhine/Rakhine Pyi (land/country- we’ve lost the r sound whereas our close cousins have retained it ) or Yakhine lumyo (people) on the Yakhine coast across the Yakhine Yoma (mountains) from the Burmese heartlands.
. . . Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut yesterday acknowledged that the controversial decision to delay the release of water from the country’s major dams had been made by the government. “I admit ordering a delay in the release of water into the plains areas so that farmers could harvest their crops first,” he said.
. . .Theera said storms had brought a lot of water in late June, with rain levels in the North over 50 per cent higher than usual. Therefore, the government had not wanted to release water, fearing it would cause more problems for farmers.
Within the minimum and maximum water levels allowed at the Bhumibol, Sirikit and Pasak Jolasit dams, specific decisions on when to release water needed to be made on a case-by-case basis, he said.
————————————–
Reading between the lines, I interpreted Agriculture Minister’s confession to the effect that: Oooops I should have paid more attention to those reports coming to my desks. But I think I sent copies of these damn . . . no I mean dam reports to the higher ups, straight to Yingluck, I think. But hey . . . what’s a good excuse to explain to the reporters???
In an ineptocracy, it is ‘the thought’ that counts, eh. And the Thai Agriculture Minister Theera has a good heart . . . considering the excuse he gave for his monstrous bungling. By good heart, it was not about ‘saving the farmers harvest’. By good heart I mean – Agriculture Minister Theera was willing to take all the blame all by himself, without entangling PM Yingluck and others, in this mother of all slip-ups!
Ineptocracy . . . what a lovely government and amazing Thailand is indeed . . . . amazing.
Hi Observer, I have had a quick scan of recent posts relating to Thailand. A couple of observations. First, I was struck how many posts over the past few weeks don’t relate to Thailand – a lot of discussion of Malaysia, Burma and other issues. Second, among the 16 most recent Thai posts I found 4 that referred to royal issues, three of these directly connected to the flood. This is hardly surprising given the emphasis in past and current political discourse about the royal contribution to water management. AW
Shannon, “Police officers will no longer accept on-the-spot payment for traffic violations (aka bribery) and officials no longer expect “envelopes” for more expedient service.”
Did I read that right?
Am I the only one who caught blindside by that remark?
So the nuanced view of apostasy among scholars is a version of “don’t ask, don’t tell” (‘private apostasy’). So the individual is still subject to arbitrary external control of whom/what he can/cannot openly insult, hate, reject etc. And this is a desirable state of affairs?
@Observer
you are right Sir…no point being anti isn’t it? after all, how could any of these ‘anti’ feel like the Royals are treating their folks like dogs? and anyhow since the latter treat dogs in a such a nice way, is there really any ground for complaining? Fortunately your occasional checking will prevent any of the formers being dumbfounded.
Please, continue your thorough watch and meaningful posts.
Dr.Mujahid
Mockery of Islam? People are just leaving Islam or criticising it. They may not consider Islam has beauty. If you are not open to robust debate about your religion, the injustices done in the name of Islam will continue. Answer your critics, don’t silence them.
Faith could only manifest itself and grow in an environment of love, compassion, charity, respect, kindness, justice and peace. On the other hand, faith will surely die under threatening conditions of hatred, intimidation, cruelty and violence. There is only one way to promote faith and that is through the soft approach, through the heart and never by force.
If apostates speak badly of the faith they are leaving, we must ask ourselves why. Are they been badly treated by the adherents? Are they been threatened with punishment, harm and even death? No apostate would insult the religion if they are allowed to leave in peace. If leaving the faith is considered as treason by itself and if leaving happily is considered as a mockery, what else could one say? You might as well admit that there is indeed compulsion.
If a faith is strong and confident enough of its own doctrine or teachings, no amount of insults, ridicle and mockery could be able to shake it. Think about it. If any adherent of any religion is worth his salt and is true to his faith, no amount of insults would make him retaliate in kind. Only men of little faith would act in a way unbefitting of his own faith.
Been checking occasionally on this site for sometime. The most consistent theme and message across most Thailand threads is basically anti royal household. Not pro democracy, not pro empowerment, not pro anything, just anti and the not so subtle message of not changing but just tearing it down. Even the flood appear to be a valid reason to criticize.
#11,
Agreed that this issue should be discussed academically.
I shall put it to you the “the beauty of Islam has already gone to waste” The waving of Krises, the threats to “anyone else” and the “forced practice” being demonstrated so clearly in Malaysia has demonised Islam in the eyes of most thinking people (brains afforded by Allah and should be used as such). Beauty should be demonstrated and revealed in its glorious truth. Beauty is not “declared” and then shoved down someone else’s throat. However the latter is more evident in “minority” and official” practice in Malaysia.
This article is a simplified version of a lengthier and more academic article published elsewhere. In that article, I’ve discussed the socio-political matrix from which Islam emerged and passed down in the way it did since the sixth century common era. I also touched briefly on the three juristic categories (hadd, qisas, or ta’zir) that approached apostasy differently, and the early Islamic schools of thought (Shafi’is, Zhahiris and Hanbalis).
I think Burmese government has already pledged to accept
those second generation Bengladashi immigrants if they are
registered with UN. I think the rest are for Bangladesh state.
It all depend on what premise we are talking here. This is about apostasy and the issue at stake is whether Islam permits or not, and if it does, on what circumstances? if it doesn’t why? In relation with the issue is also other factors surrounding the apostacy cases as to give justice to the problem we are discussing. This is not about black or white, this is about faith which Islam holds so dear. Please do not simplify matters and please do not rest argument by putting Perkasa in this picture.
Yes, surmounts to treason and threat to Islam is the common ground that all scholars agree. To understand that, one has to understand the seriousness of Islam in defending its faith. The faith is so dear that one cannot simply renounce against it happily as it implies mockery to the faith. The law on apostacy is simply to protect the faith and to keep other system of Islam intact. If no serious law is regulated on apostacy the beauty of Islam will go to waste as it declares itself as religion for mankind.
The backrop of the Islamic history must also be present when we discuss the question of apostacy because the backdrop that we have today may be different. The basis of judgement is a variable factors in determining what is original judgement and the environment surrounding it.
Again do not simplify, we need to discuss it in an academic manner with an open mind.
An expanded and slightly modified version of this post, “Mixing politics and sport”, is now available on Inside Story. Principally, I have added some first impressions based on my first 24 hours in Palembang earlier this week. The new section begins:
Early impressions, based on my first twenty-four hours in Palembang, suggest a different mood from that evoked by the Jakarta-based press coverage. Not surprisingly, given the city’s central role in the event, it is clear that anger over the SEA Games scandals was felt especially acutely here. These emotions have been mixed with criticism of central authorities, particularly over the slow release of games funds. Yet this anger seems recently to have given way to resignation and even, in the final days before the games, a guarded optimism that the SEA Games might just work.
I also consider the unusually strong connection drawn between sport and development in Palembang, particularly since the city hosted the National Games in 2004, and argue that this too reflects the fragmentation of Indonesian politics since 1998.
“Regardless of my own well-informed opinion”…
So we are all humble contributors to academia then!
Eisel, you criticise Scott’s work for being arrogantly ambitious, however the tone of your article certainly doesn’t take moderation as its guiding light.
On the issue of the conference in China, I’m not entirely sure I share your pessimism. Based in Beijing I’ve attended many events with equally controversial topics. I had Scott’s book delivered to my place by Amazon no problem. Maybe you’re right, there may well be interest from authorities, but I wouldn’t say that censorship is a foregone conclusion.
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BBC under fire on Rohingyas
Sadly it’s their extremist leaders who brought it on these unfortunate people, discriminated against as a result on both sides of the border.
The Mujahid rebellion ( no Rohingya in the national lexicon for another ten years yet) started alongside the Rakhine nationalist rebellion even before independence, demanding an independent Islamic state or wanting to join East Pakistan. Today they have made it worse by involving their fellow Jihadis and powerful Islamic states around the world as well as putting out the myth of being initial settlers on the Arakan coast insisting on calling the native people Maghs (bandits in Bengali).
Arakan/Arakanese is English. In Burmese it has always been Yakhine/Rakhine Pyi (land/country- we’ve lost the r sound whereas our close cousins have retained it ) or Yakhine lumyo (people) on the Yakhine coast across the Yakhine Yoma (mountains) from the Burmese heartlands.
As you sow so shall you reap.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
Dr. Mujahid #11,
I’m still not clear with your clarification on “..as long as it does not surmounts to treason and threat to Islam..”
Allow me to pose the question in a positive approach:
In your view, under what condition can a Muslim in Malaysia leave Islam?
I believe this a better way for me to understand your view.
Managing people harder than managing water
We already got a confession:
http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20111111-310054.html
. . . Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut yesterday acknowledged that the controversial decision to delay the release of water from the country’s major dams had been made by the government. “I admit ordering a delay in the release of water into the plains areas so that farmers could harvest their crops first,” he said.
. . .Theera said storms had brought a lot of water in late June, with rain levels in the North over 50 per cent higher than usual. Therefore, the government had not wanted to release water, fearing it would cause more problems for farmers.
Within the minimum and maximum water levels allowed at the Bhumibol, Sirikit and Pasak Jolasit dams, specific decisions on when to release water needed to be made on a case-by-case basis, he said.
————————————–
Reading between the lines, I interpreted Agriculture Minister’s confession to the effect that: Oooops I should have paid more attention to those reports coming to my desks. But I think I sent copies of these damn . . . no I mean dam reports to the higher ups, straight to Yingluck, I think. But hey . . . what’s a good excuse to explain to the reporters???
In an ineptocracy, it is ‘the thought’ that counts, eh. And the Thai Agriculture Minister Theera has a good heart . . . considering the excuse he gave for his monstrous bungling. By good heart, it was not about ‘saving the farmers harvest’. By good heart I mean – Agriculture Minister Theera was willing to take all the blame all by himself, without entangling PM Yingluck and others, in this mother of all slip-ups!
Ineptocracy . . . what a lovely government and amazing Thailand is indeed . . . . amazing.
Happy Birthday Thongdaeng
Hi Observer, I have had a quick scan of recent posts relating to Thailand. A couple of observations. First, I was struck how many posts over the past few weeks don’t relate to Thailand – a lot of discussion of Malaysia, Burma and other issues. Second, among the 16 most recent Thai posts I found 4 that referred to royal issues, three of these directly connected to the flood. This is hardly surprising given the emphasis in past and current political discourse about the royal contribution to water management. AW
The Western aid sector in Laos – days numbered?
Shannon, “Police officers will no longer accept on-the-spot payment for traffic violations (aka bribery) and officials no longer expect “envelopes” for more expedient service.”
Did I read that right?
Am I the only one who caught blindside by that remark?
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
So the nuanced view of apostasy among scholars is a version of “don’t ask, don’t tell” (‘private apostasy’). So the individual is still subject to arbitrary external control of whom/what he can/cannot openly insult, hate, reject etc. And this is a desirable state of affairs?
Happy Birthday Thongdaeng
@Observer
you are right Sir…no point being anti isn’t it? after all, how could any of these ‘anti’ feel like the Royals are treating their folks like dogs? and anyhow since the latter treat dogs in a such a nice way, is there really any ground for complaining? Fortunately your occasional checking will prevent any of the formers being dumbfounded.
Please, continue your thorough watch and meaningful posts.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
Dr.Mujahid
Mockery of Islam? People are just leaving Islam or criticising it. They may not consider Islam has beauty. If you are not open to robust debate about your religion, the injustices done in the name of Islam will continue. Answer your critics, don’t silence them.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
Faith could only manifest itself and grow in an environment of love, compassion, charity, respect, kindness, justice and peace. On the other hand, faith will surely die under threatening conditions of hatred, intimidation, cruelty and violence. There is only one way to promote faith and that is through the soft approach, through the heart and never by force.
If apostates speak badly of the faith they are leaving, we must ask ourselves why. Are they been badly treated by the adherents? Are they been threatened with punishment, harm and even death? No apostate would insult the religion if they are allowed to leave in peace. If leaving the faith is considered as treason by itself and if leaving happily is considered as a mockery, what else could one say? You might as well admit that there is indeed compulsion.
If a faith is strong and confident enough of its own doctrine or teachings, no amount of insults, ridicle and mockery could be able to shake it. Think about it. If any adherent of any religion is worth his salt and is true to his faith, no amount of insults would make him retaliate in kind. Only men of little faith would act in a way unbefitting of his own faith.
Happy Birthday Thongdaeng
Been checking occasionally on this site for sometime. The most consistent theme and message across most Thailand threads is basically anti royal household. Not pro democracy, not pro empowerment, not pro anything, just anti and the not so subtle message of not changing but just tearing it down. Even the flood appear to be a valid reason to criticize.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
#11,
Agreed that this issue should be discussed academically.
I shall put it to you the “the beauty of Islam has already gone to waste” The waving of Krises, the threats to “anyone else” and the “forced practice” being demonstrated so clearly in Malaysia has demonised Islam in the eyes of most thinking people (brains afforded by Allah and should be used as such). Beauty should be demonstrated and revealed in its glorious truth. Beauty is not “declared” and then shoved down someone else’s throat. However the latter is more evident in “minority” and official” practice in Malaysia.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
Sorry, there is a typo in my previous comment. I mean “the seventh century common era.”
Peace & Regards.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
This article is a simplified version of a lengthier and more academic article published elsewhere. In that article, I’ve discussed the socio-political matrix from which Islam emerged and passed down in the way it did since the sixth century common era. I also touched briefly on the three juristic categories (hadd, qisas, or ta’zir) that approached apostasy differently, and the early Islamic schools of thought (Shafi’is, Zhahiris and Hanbalis).
For those interested to read it, here is the URL:
http://www.wrfnet.org/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=PUB.1.52&p_p_id=56_INSTANCE_6Gau&p_p_action=0&p_p_state=normal&p_p_col_id=column-3&p_p_col_pos=1&p_p_col_count=4&_56_INSTANCE_6Gau_groupId=1&_56_INSTANCE_6Gau_articleId=427&_56_INSTANCE_6Gau_version=1.0
Peace & Regards.
BBC under fire on Rohingyas
I think Burmese government has already pledged to accept
those second generation Bengladashi immigrants if they are
registered with UN. I think the rest are for Bangladesh state.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
It all depend on what premise we are talking here. This is about apostasy and the issue at stake is whether Islam permits or not, and if it does, on what circumstances? if it doesn’t why? In relation with the issue is also other factors surrounding the apostacy cases as to give justice to the problem we are discussing. This is not about black or white, this is about faith which Islam holds so dear. Please do not simplify matters and please do not rest argument by putting Perkasa in this picture.
Yes, surmounts to treason and threat to Islam is the common ground that all scholars agree. To understand that, one has to understand the seriousness of Islam in defending its faith. The faith is so dear that one cannot simply renounce against it happily as it implies mockery to the faith. The law on apostacy is simply to protect the faith and to keep other system of Islam intact. If no serious law is regulated on apostacy the beauty of Islam will go to waste as it declares itself as religion for mankind.
The backrop of the Islamic history must also be present when we discuss the question of apostacy because the backdrop that we have today may be different. The basis of judgement is a variable factors in determining what is original judgement and the environment surrounding it.
Again do not simplify, we need to discuss it in an academic manner with an open mind.
Tq
BBC under fire on Rohingyas
So can any responsible person tell us , what is the status of Rohingyas in Myanmar now ?
Thanks
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
Guess I owe Dr.Mujahid an apology.
More than a mess: The 2011 SEA Games in Indonesia
An expanded and slightly modified version of this post, “Mixing politics and sport”, is now available on Inside Story. Principally, I have added some first impressions based on my first 24 hours in Palembang earlier this week. The new section begins:
I also consider the unusually strong connection drawn between sport and development in Palembang, particularly since the city hosted the National Games in 2004, and argue that this too reflects the fragmentation of Indonesian politics since 1998.
Asian Borderlands: Connections, Corridors, Communities
“Regardless of my own well-informed opinion”…
So we are all humble contributors to academia then!
Eisel, you criticise Scott’s work for being arrogantly ambitious, however the tone of your article certainly doesn’t take moderation as its guiding light.
On the issue of the conference in China, I’m not entirely sure I share your pessimism. Based in Beijing I’ve attended many events with equally controversial topics. I had Scott’s book delivered to my place by Amazon no problem. Maybe you’re right, there may well be interest from authorities, but I wouldn’t say that censorship is a foregone conclusion.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
I believe that nothing undermines the faith of a believer more than hypocrite, who display their religion externally but their hearts are corrupted.