and others #16 “If the evidence is secret then what makes you think the offense is of a childish sort?”
What makes you think the evidence is secret? Can there be any doubt that during the extenstve questioning of Mr. Chai the specific posts the Police were concerned with were discussed? Why doesn’t Mr. Chai say what the content of those post were?
I have personal knowledge of one LM case under the Computer Act and that post, by a Thai living in the US, that was not removed until it was seen by middle aged Thai person who then filed charges, was certainly a childish insult.
Should somebody go to jail for making such a post, no, I don’t think so. But certainly they should be exposed for making such a post and it is doubtful that once the actual content is known, anyone would make much of a freedom of expression martyr of that poster. A joke maybe, but not a martyr.
This is the outcome of 30 plus years of politicising Islam.
In the subconscious mind of most Muslims is the understanding that Islam and by extension its adherents are “better” or “superior” to others.
What is heartening however, is the conscious recognition by some Muslims (who find their expression in various ways including in the Islamic party – PAS), that this is a very dangerous trend.
However, I’m surprised. Malaysia is suffering from skills shortage, including engineers. I would have assumed you would be able to find a job as an engineer without much difficulty.
I don’t think ASSK was trying to muzzle the press by suing, just exercising her right against misrepresentation and libel. Dissident media may have chosen not to report the case for their own reasons. Self censorship is commonplace in all countries. One element of it is simply called PC.
And yes, thank goodness for the Internet. There’s already a surfeit of stuff on YouTube for instance. Talk about slander, libel and just intemperate language, trust the Burmese to swear like a trooper at one another on many a blog and website. No wonder independence was said not to be taken as freedom to piss in the middle of the road.
Not sure if the link between the 1926 Contempt of Court Act and ASSK’s day in court is more than a tenuous one. Enlighten us.
I was going to jump in with a comment about the appearance and disappearance of the yellow shirts in 2006 & 2008, but michael (28) beat me to it, and he is correct.
The BTS used to be a sea of yellow on Mondays, and then, one Monday after a particularly ugly week of PAD activity the yellow shirts were gone (can’t remember the event precisely, but I remember the morning on the BTS vividly) — virtually everyone stopped wearing them on the same day, as though a memo had gone out. It was an unmistakable statement of disapproval that could not be missed if you traveled regularly on the BTS/MRT.
Initially government employees had been given the shirts and told that they needed to wear them every day for a year to celebrate HM birthday. The practice lasted well beyond the year, and the abrupt end of the practice in 2008 was definitely linked to political activity (or perhaps an action by the blue lady), not because of any formal directives.
The King, on his short-lived exit from the hospital that michael referred to (29), wore, not only a pink blazer, but also a pink shirt. I may be mistaken, but I believe that the pink relates to the year of his birth (rabbit?). He seems to have made a habit of wearing pink on most occasions that he has been seen in public since 2008.
While the wristbands were ubiquitous a few years ago, I rarely see them now, to be honest. They seem to come in waves, in conjunction with certain events, and often the profit from their sale is donated to a worthy cause. With His Majesty’s birthday (5 Dec) in 2011 being the completion of his 7th cycle, there will probably be shirts, wristbands and other obvious displays of support. I suspect that they are more likely to be pink this time, rather than yellow.
Najib Razak will remain a strategic asset to the US and Australia although his carefully crafted international profile takes a beating after the Australian High Court ruling.
Yes it is be fore they married, either late 90s or early 2000s.
Jesse – 30
This is pure fiction ! I didn’t know a scholar believes in the FB posts and leaked letter !
As things stand now, nothing can be treat as certain fact. Not to mentioned all the kings project and his achievement which none of the researcher dare to say bad things about the royal project. When you said “pure fiction” its certainly sounded ironic.
If the evidence is secret then what makes you think the offense is of a childish sort? And if it is childish… imprison someone for a decade or more for a childish offense?
‘Secret crimes’… ‘secret trials’… nothing childish about the brutal dictatorship… the Pregogative State… enforcing those ‘laws’, whether it be Yellow or Red. I must admit I hate to see the Puea Thai identified with the color red… they’ve just ‘farmed on the backs’ of the redshirts.
For example in the US you can’t criticize blacks, UK don’t criticize Muslims, Australia gays and women are off limits. Obviously the degrees of censorship in these PC countries and Burma differ significantly, but there is one common thread, the government determines what is politically acceptable and what isn’t, there is no actual free speech.
Governments act on behalf of voting block pressure or in their own self interest, censorship is censorship regardless. You can either say whatever you want or you are restricted by threat of fine or jail time, different governments have different agendas but all that censor are the same, only differing by degrees. Degrees have a habit of increasing incrementally, increments that will suit some and gag others.
The only truly free speech is being able to say whatever you want regardless of who it offends, and for those you offend to be able to offend you in return. Only a small percentage actually offend, a limited nuisance to allow complete expression.
I am not sure when the dog birthday party took place either. Personally I believe it was sometimes during 2001-2002, but who knows when this took place since we are not allowed to discuss it in public? What’s the average age of a poodle? We can only guess when this event took place if we know how long a poodle has to live. Foo Foo was quite grown up in the video. So my guess is it occurred around 2001-2002.
Anyway, my point is (this is my speculation, however) the attempt for each Royal who is now ‘fighting’ for the throne to discredit one another started four to five years ago. This is (I believe) the reason why these embarrassing videos and picture albums of Srirasmi only made their way to the Thai public only 4-5 years ago, despite the fact that these stuffs had been kept safe in the palace for years.
I believe Prem and the Q are doing everything they can to undermine the CP. Princess Srirasmi’s naked pictures and the birthday party had significantly damaged the image of the CP. However, the CP has got Thaksin on his side. And Thaksin (and his nominees, whoever he nominates…be it Samak, Somchai, Yingluck etc) are likely to remain the democratically elected leader in Thailand for a while to come. Moreover, the queen’s popularity has deteriorated significantly after she attended the PAD funeral in October 2008.
Thus it is questionable whether the Q can be a stabilising force after the K passes away (not that having the CP as the next Monarch is going to make things less shaky). Then there is Princess Sirindhorn, who is quietly expecting the throne…and unlike the Q and the CP, she does have a lot of support from the crowd.
…It would be interesting to see what would happen in the future. I really can’t predict what is going to happen at all.
When exactly did the dog birthday party take place? Judging from CP’s appearance, it must have been around 1998, several years before he married Srirasmi.
A huge amount of sometimes seemingly contradictary responses in this survey. But a clear message seems to be that for the 1060 Malay muslims surveyed their religion plays a defining role in their lives and outlook whereas they are barely engaged in politics at all (75% little or not interested, 86% don’t vote).
It seems that 86% are waiting for a strong man to bring order to the country, which is hardly an endorsement of democratic values. And disturbingly 43% believe that “Suicide bombers are needed to defend Islam” and nearly 40% do not believe that “Terrorism gives Islam a bad name”, again beliefs which hardly support democratic values.
These do not seem to be values that will help in the drive to build a “developed nation” as envisaged by Vision 2020.
@Jesse “This is pure fiction ! I didn’t know a scholar believes in the FB posts and leaked letter !”
I must object for your usage of the word “pure”, because it isn’t. “Pure” fiction means that it is a story which is 100% fabricated, which in this case, it is certainly not. It does have source, not from Facebook post, but from Wikileaks.
I believe that leaked cables from Wikileaks do have relevance, and one should not dismiss it in the first instance. Hillary Clinton has said that the contents in Wikileaks “caused great diplomatic ruptures” and she would ensure “this will never happen again”. Moreover, the US ambassador has a privilege that very few people who are not in the inner circle has: the privilege to talk to many elites who have powers in Thailand. Why would he lie when he writes back to his country, believing that everything would be permanently confidential?
Also, the circumstances in the past six years are probable that there is a power struggle behind the scenes. Why do you think the naked pictures of Princess Srirasmi and that nasty dog birthday party had just made their way into the Thai public just four-five years ago? No one but the people inside the palace know about these stuffs, and no one would be able to take these files out of the palace except the insiders.
Why do you think Prem and his cronies have to do everything to get rid of Thaksin (who has a good relationship with the Crown Prince)? To me this is a move on the Q’s part (with Prem and other elites on their side) to weaken the power and influence of the CP. Why did Princess Sirindhorn say that the PAD “does things from themselves”, to undermine the PAD’s legitimacy? (and everyone knows that the Q implicitly supports the PAD).
To me, these three Royals, through their indirect and discreet acts, are trying to get the crowds on their side. At least this is what I believe, and I make my opinion through the information from Wikileaks, which is of some degree of importance, which seems to be consonant with the Royals’ actions and events which have happened in the past four-five years.
Joe Gordon’s letter to President Obama and an international scholars’ letter to PM Yingluck were posted today on PPT. Let’s hope their responses are, too.
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US legal action on lese majeste
and others #16 “If the evidence is secret then what makes you think the offense is of a childish sort?”
What makes you think the evidence is secret? Can there be any doubt that during the extenstve questioning of Mr. Chai the specific posts the Police were concerned with were discussed? Why doesn’t Mr. Chai say what the content of those post were?
I have personal knowledge of one LM case under the Computer Act and that post, by a Thai living in the US, that was not removed until it was seen by middle aged Thai person who then filed charges, was certainly a childish insult.
Should somebody go to jail for making such a post, no, I don’t think so. But certainly they should be exposed for making such a post and it is doubtful that once the actual content is known, anyone would make much of a freedom of expression martyr of that poster. A joke maybe, but not a martyr.
Malaysia’s Islamic future
Hi Pete,
Yes, it is indeed worrying.
This is the outcome of 30 plus years of politicising Islam.
In the subconscious mind of most Muslims is the understanding that Islam and by extension its adherents are “better” or “superior” to others.
What is heartening however, is the conscious recognition by some Muslims (who find their expression in various ways including in the Islamic party – PAS), that this is a very dangerous trend.
Thailand’s succession planning
Sorry. My mistake #37
The “code name” (in number) wasn’t for one of the sisters-in-law, but for the birthday person’s companion.
Bumiputera graduate unemployment and Malaysia’s world class education system – a recipe for disaster
Hi Glovak,
I feel for you.
However, I’m surprised. Malaysia is suffering from skills shortage, including engineers. I would have assumed you would be able to find a job as an engineer without much difficulty.
Have you tried registering with the government’s Electronic Labour Exchange.
In your opinion, why do you think, you can’t get a job as an engineer?
Censorship in Myanmar, and beyond
I don’t think ASSK was trying to muzzle the press by suing, just exercising her right against misrepresentation and libel. Dissident media may have chosen not to report the case for their own reasons. Self censorship is commonplace in all countries. One element of it is simply called PC.
And yes, thank goodness for the Internet. There’s already a surfeit of stuff on YouTube for instance. Talk about slander, libel and just intemperate language, trust the Burmese to swear like a trooper at one another on many a blog and website. No wonder independence was said not to be taken as freedom to piss in the middle of the road.
Not sure if the link between the 1926 Contempt of Court Act and ASSK’s day in court is more than a tenuous one. Enlighten us.
Thailand’s succession planning
should be: told that they needed to wear them every MONday for a year
Thailand’s succession planning
I was going to jump in with a comment about the appearance and disappearance of the yellow shirts in 2006 & 2008, but michael (28) beat me to it, and he is correct.
The BTS used to be a sea of yellow on Mondays, and then, one Monday after a particularly ugly week of PAD activity the yellow shirts were gone (can’t remember the event precisely, but I remember the morning on the BTS vividly) — virtually everyone stopped wearing them on the same day, as though a memo had gone out. It was an unmistakable statement of disapproval that could not be missed if you traveled regularly on the BTS/MRT.
Initially government employees had been given the shirts and told that they needed to wear them every day for a year to celebrate HM birthday. The practice lasted well beyond the year, and the abrupt end of the practice in 2008 was definitely linked to political activity (or perhaps an action by the blue lady), not because of any formal directives.
The King, on his short-lived exit from the hospital that michael referred to (29), wore, not only a pink blazer, but also a pink shirt. I may be mistaken, but I believe that the pink relates to the year of his birth (rabbit?). He seems to have made a habit of wearing pink on most occasions that he has been seen in public since 2008.
While the wristbands were ubiquitous a few years ago, I rarely see them now, to be honest. They seem to come in waves, in conjunction with certain events, and often the profit from their sale is donated to a worthy cause. With His Majesty’s birthday (5 Dec) in 2011 being the completion of his 7th cycle, there will probably be shirts, wristbands and other obvious displays of support. I suspect that they are more likely to be pink this time, rather than yellow.
Najib still an asset?
Najib Razak will remain a strategic asset to the US and Australia although his carefully crafted international profile takes a beating after the Australian High Court ruling.
I discuss this on Radio Australia’s Connect Asia.
Thailand’s succession planning
Seh Fah – 36
Yes it is be fore they married, either late 90s or early 2000s.
Jesse – 30
This is pure fiction ! I didn’t know a scholar believes in the FB posts and leaked letter !
As things stand now, nothing can be treat as certain fact. Not to mentioned all the kings project and his achievement which none of the researcher dare to say bad things about the royal project. When you said “pure fiction” its certainly sounded ironic.
US legal action on lese majeste
@ ‘John Smith’ (come on…) 10
The link above?
If the evidence is secret then what makes you think the offense is of a childish sort? And if it is childish… imprison someone for a decade or more for a childish offense?
‘Secret crimes’… ‘secret trials’… nothing childish about the brutal dictatorship… the Pregogative State… enforcing those ‘laws’, whether it be Yellow or Red. I must admit I hate to see the Puea Thai identified with the color red… they’ve just ‘farmed on the backs’ of the redshirts.
Thailand’s succession planning
Jesse (30)
Since when did Thailand have a 700 year history? I thought “Thailand” was created by a mapping technology….
US legal action on lese majeste
Along the lines of “Say it ain’t so, Joe!”… Thanks ro speaking up, Nich.
Thailand’s succession planning
Perhaps this is the opportunity to correct a surprisingly widespread misunderstanding: the “birthday” was not for the canine but for his female owner.
Notice (at minute 8), one birthday cake with the message on it, saying (in Thai, except the first line):
“Happy Birthday
…[name] ….
[day and month]…2544 [2001]
Then (at minute 14), there’s a birthday card with the message (all in English):
“Happy Birthday,
To
khun …[the nickname]…
from
… [code name for one of her sisters in-law]…
… [day and month]…44 [01]”
This should answer the question about when it happened as well.
Censorship in Myanmar, and beyond
For example in the US you can’t criticize blacks, UK don’t criticize Muslims, Australia gays and women are off limits. Obviously the degrees of censorship in these PC countries and Burma differ significantly, but there is one common thread, the government determines what is politically acceptable and what isn’t, there is no actual free speech.
Governments act on behalf of voting block pressure or in their own self interest, censorship is censorship regardless. You can either say whatever you want or you are restricted by threat of fine or jail time, different governments have different agendas but all that censor are the same, only differing by degrees. Degrees have a habit of increasing incrementally, increments that will suit some and gag others.
The only truly free speech is being able to say whatever you want regardless of who it offends, and for those you offend to be able to offend you in return. Only a small percentage actually offend, a limited nuisance to allow complete expression.
Crossing a river in Arunachal Pradesh
Thanks for the pictures
It is part of the Land of Kachins/Singhpo.
Wonderful Natural Environment
Pray to be everlasting beauty
Thailand’s succession planning
@Khun Seh Fah,
I am not sure when the dog birthday party took place either. Personally I believe it was sometimes during 2001-2002, but who knows when this took place since we are not allowed to discuss it in public? What’s the average age of a poodle? We can only guess when this event took place if we know how long a poodle has to live. Foo Foo was quite grown up in the video. So my guess is it occurred around 2001-2002.
Anyway, my point is (this is my speculation, however) the attempt for each Royal who is now ‘fighting’ for the throne to discredit one another started four to five years ago. This is (I believe) the reason why these embarrassing videos and picture albums of Srirasmi only made their way to the Thai public only 4-5 years ago, despite the fact that these stuffs had been kept safe in the palace for years.
I believe Prem and the Q are doing everything they can to undermine the CP. Princess Srirasmi’s naked pictures and the birthday party had significantly damaged the image of the CP. However, the CP has got Thaksin on his side. And Thaksin (and his nominees, whoever he nominates…be it Samak, Somchai, Yingluck etc) are likely to remain the democratically elected leader in Thailand for a while to come. Moreover, the queen’s popularity has deteriorated significantly after she attended the PAD funeral in October 2008.
Thus it is questionable whether the Q can be a stabilising force after the K passes away (not that having the CP as the next Monarch is going to make things less shaky). Then there is Princess Sirindhorn, who is quietly expecting the throne…and unlike the Q and the CP, she does have a lot of support from the crowd.
…It would be interesting to see what would happen in the future. I really can’t predict what is going to happen at all.
Thailand’s succession planning
CT #35
When exactly did the dog birthday party take place? Judging from CP’s appearance, it must have been around 1998, several years before he married Srirasmi.
Malaysia’s Islamic future
A huge amount of sometimes seemingly contradictary responses in this survey. But a clear message seems to be that for the 1060 Malay muslims surveyed their religion plays a defining role in their lives and outlook whereas they are barely engaged in politics at all (75% little or not interested, 86% don’t vote).
It seems that 86% are waiting for a strong man to bring order to the country, which is hardly an endorsement of democratic values. And disturbingly 43% believe that “Suicide bombers are needed to defend Islam” and nearly 40% do not believe that “Terrorism gives Islam a bad name”, again beliefs which hardly support democratic values.
These do not seem to be values that will help in the drive to build a “developed nation” as envisaged by Vision 2020.
Thailand’s succession planning
@Jesse “This is pure fiction ! I didn’t know a scholar believes in the FB posts and leaked letter !”
I must object for your usage of the word “pure”, because it isn’t. “Pure” fiction means that it is a story which is 100% fabricated, which in this case, it is certainly not. It does have source, not from Facebook post, but from Wikileaks.
I believe that leaked cables from Wikileaks do have relevance, and one should not dismiss it in the first instance. Hillary Clinton has said that the contents in Wikileaks “caused great diplomatic ruptures” and she would ensure “this will never happen again”. Moreover, the US ambassador has a privilege that very few people who are not in the inner circle has: the privilege to talk to many elites who have powers in Thailand. Why would he lie when he writes back to his country, believing that everything would be permanently confidential?
Also, the circumstances in the past six years are probable that there is a power struggle behind the scenes. Why do you think the naked pictures of Princess Srirasmi and that nasty dog birthday party had just made their way into the Thai public just four-five years ago? No one but the people inside the palace know about these stuffs, and no one would be able to take these files out of the palace except the insiders.
Why do you think Prem and his cronies have to do everything to get rid of Thaksin (who has a good relationship with the Crown Prince)? To me this is a move on the Q’s part (with Prem and other elites on their side) to weaken the power and influence of the CP. Why did Princess Sirindhorn say that the PAD “does things from themselves”, to undermine the PAD’s legitimacy? (and everyone knows that the Q implicitly supports the PAD).
To me, these three Royals, through their indirect and discreet acts, are trying to get the crowds on their side. At least this is what I believe, and I make my opinion through the information from Wikileaks, which is of some degree of importance, which seems to be consonant with the Royals’ actions and events which have happened in the past four-five years.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Joe Gordon’s letter to President Obama and an international scholars’ letter to PM Yingluck were posted today on PPT. Let’s hope their responses are, too.