New Mandala readers following this story will want to know that another Burmese refugee in Australia has come forward with claims about his involvement in killings on behalf of Burma’s military government. The Sydney Morning Herald has more.
Turn the clock back a few hundred years for a different outcome. Say Australia was not colonized by the English. The Aborigines were left to there own devices….. En English girl moves to what is now Sydney and starts a school for the Aboriginal elders and there children. Some Chinese and Indians come down and set up stores and farm some rice. Now move the clock back to the twenty first century. The”could have been” version of 21st century Australia: There is fighting between the established leadership aborigines and the opportunistic new money aborigines who supported America in their waring efforts, profiting from the contracts. The massive population has to be kept in the dark to keep them working and breeding. Most of the hundred million population earn $5 a day and work on farms or sweat shops/prostitution patronized by the rich Countries of Europe and North america
The answer to this alternative version of Australia: The old leadership will have to share with the new enterprising breed of leaders. Technology -that is the revolution of the twenty first century can be promoted to the masses so that they can see that Environmentally disastrous consumption- as rampant in west- is not sustainable and therefor not fashionable. With this new freedom of information they will see that the west was developed by people who had to battle harsh winters every year. Over many thousands of years they became very hard working organized people -so as to survive the harsh environment. This promoted advanced lifestyles that never eventuated (and are unnecessary)in warmer year round mild climates
There have been some excellent articles in the Kyoto Journal of Southeast Asian Studies over the years –although many of them have remained difficult to find.
An outstanding contribution from Katherine Bowie remains hidden in plain view on the following web-page (that can somehow be reached through their website):
Years ago, I conducted a survey of the literature dealing with slavery in Thailand (and, to a lesser extent, its neighbors in mainland Southeast Asia) and I found to my surprise that this is one of extremely few articles broaching the issues concerned –and, indeed, the paucity of western or eastern scholarship in this area is briefly discussed within Bowie’s article itself.
It was on paper that I discovered their (now relatively old) special issue on Cambodia, as a copy was adventitiously gathering dust in Phnom Penh, and I only later figured out that it was possible to download each of the articles concerned from the website (after going to some lengths to photocopy the thing).
In case folk are wondering why we are watching the reputation of Thailand sink lower every day this may be part of the answer:
Ten years ago in a Bangkok Bar I met an American academic who bragged about how he wrote the 1997 Thai Constitution.
True or false I know not, but the present version could well have been written by the US State Department for the Thai military.
In the US the President is elected in November but does not take office until January. Plenty of time for the out going president to get up to tricks like pardoning favorite criminals, veto-ing UN Security Council resolutions etc. And as an American friend said to me “The founding Fathers did not trust the people to vote so they inserted an electoral college of ‘wise men’ to choose the president”.
How similar is Thailand in 2011 with the outgoing Foreign Minister causing maximum embarrasment and our “Election Commission” presiding over the formation of a new parliament.
How different the British system where the day after the vote, a defeated Prime Minister concedes defeat and visits the King to tender his resignation and advise the monarch to invite the leader of the winning party to form a government.
This is how things are done in Australia and at the 1972 election which saw Labor defeat the conservative Liberals who had been in power for 23 years, a government of two was sworn in on the Monday after the Saturday election. Prime Minister Edward Gough Whitlam and his deputy Lance Barnard then governed the country for two weeks as the final numbers in the parliament were decided to allow the Labor caucus to elect a full ministry.
In those two weeks the government issued a host of decrees which changed the country literally over night. One of the first was to order the release from jail the brave young men who had refused to be drafted to fight in the American genocidal war against VietNam.
How different is Thailand with Prime Minister Abhisit conceding defeat but continuing to govern and continuing to imprison political dissenters.
erewhon @118: re “the surprise appearance of the plane’s twin” noted @99: Apparently a second Thai 737 recently appeared at the Munich airport, parked next to the impounded 737.
Anyone know about the second 737? A temporary replacement for the CP to use? Subject to impoundment? Does Thailand claim it has diplomatic immunity?
I can only see this resulting in a greater exploitation of Laos – particularly in terms of its natural resources (and resource exploitation primarily impacts the poor) and will accelerate the already growing disparities in wealth within the country. LDCs *always* give more than they receive as they become integrated more thoroughly into the global market economy, although the well-connected elites will obviously benefit. I understand I’m stating the obvious here.
In a sense it’s similar to elite collaboration with occupying forces (Nazi occupied France comes to mind) – the collaborators will continue to benefit financially while the occupiers, who have few reasons to ensure the welfare of a country’s population and environment, will ‘suck the marrow from the bone’ so to speak. I consider this to be a ‘realist’ perspective based on what we have seen occur historically in similar scenarios. I’m sure Laos will also see an acceleration in Han Chinese immigration into the country.
I live in Laos. I have to agree with Shan 1,000%. I am American by nationality but ethnically Laos….I lived in the US since 4 years of age. I am now 36. I have 15 years of professional work experience with Fortune 500 companies. I have an MBA. Now that you know a little about my background….I have lived in Laos for the past 2.5 years with my very Anglo husband and 3 children. Half the country is related to me …. even the government officials.
The only debate left is whether or not there is/was any other Thai who should wield the title ‘Mother of all Thai Corruption’, if not Thaksin.
Thaksin indeed pushed the boundaries when it came to corruption . . . and corrupting Thai institutions. The recent wikileaks about Thaksin skimming the national lottery and using the Thai Deputy Police Chief as the bagman to make the deliveries to we-know-who should underscore that point.
And Snoh’s bombshell of a book of the extent of the Thaksin-Potjaman mafia-like corruption regime also underscore the genius of Thaksin when it comes to organized large scale corruption. Excerpts:
“He placed one of his own people in every ministry. These people did not need to have a powerful post, but everybody knew who they were … If any minister wanted to propose a project using the central budget, the minister would first have to clear it with ‘his person’ first. Many ministers were approached by ‘his person’ saying, ‘The budget is coming. You can have five or six billion, but 10 per cent must go to the party … Any minister who would not do this, could not remain.”
Snoh then explained how the system worked.
“For this 10 per cent policy, the minister would have to pad the budget proposed for approval to include the 10 per cent that would go to the party. Then once it was agreed with ‘his person’ via Khunying, the matter could be sent to his trusted ‘permanent political representative’, who used to be his company employee. To date nobody knows how much this 10 per cent amounts to. Probably need to ask Khunying.”
Snoh claims to have asked Pojaman what she needed so many billions for, and got this answer: “In politics you have to hand out money. It has to be considered a business.” Snoh asked her what would happen if things blew up, and she replied, “If Thaksin falls, the Thai Rak Thai Party will have to stay in power for at least two more terms for safety.”
(Note: Thaksin missed that ‘at least two more terms for safety’ and indeed had to flee Thailand)
Bangkok Post business section today make a reasonable attempt to lay out the background to the plane affair. http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/aviation/248496/how-the-turbulence-began
But of course with a bias that assumes that any statement by government officials outweighs all documentary evidence to the contrary.
And at the end a candid statement from a Thai lawyer, “arbitration is a difficult way to settle contractual disputes since the government often doesn’t honour the arbitration rulings”
And not just contractual disputes, applies to border disputes also…..
In the next few weeks I will have my Literature students studying documents surrounding the English Civil War (having just covered the so-called “King James” Bible . Everything seems to evolve out of KJ I’s attempt to replace the seditious Geneva Bible that had commentary against extreme unction and the response of Puritans and Parliamentarians to limit the authority and role of the monarchy. Cromwell was in a position to declare the banishment of royalty altogether in a sort of Grand Republic. The Puritans who founded the Plymouth Bay Colony sure had republican ideas.
Although we can’t use the Thai govt. university classroom to discuss the political situation very effectively, I can only imagine what Thai students might seek to apply from this theme.
Do New Mandela readers want to help limit the parallels to the Thai situation?
I enjoy gleaning what little I can from irrawady, karennationalunion.net, shanland.org, burmadigest.info, burmanet.org.
There is so little of this that summarizes or documents on maps the progression of resistance in terms of battles, skirmishes, sabotage, military executions/population reduction. It’s just so difficult to get the big picture here.
Your article here begins to do more of that. Thank you.
Donnatella (c.122), I think you may have missed the ironic inflection in Stuart’s comment. Sometimes a mistranslation may inadvertently get closer to the truth of what actually happened than a correct translation.
And on Ricky’s point (c.124) about people in Thai jails for the crime of thinking and speaking their thoughts, I am extremely pleased that the Bangkok Post has, for the first time in a very long time, perhaps the first time ever, seen fit to inform us about the condition of one of these prisoners. Thank you, Achara Ashayagachat, you redeem something of my very diminished faith in Thai journalism. May it continue.
Just stumbled across this post recently and thought I would add my two-cents worth by posting a couple links to articles relating to this topic. Unfortunately for the ‘Thai’ researchers, the genetics of ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ do not pair up with the typical social concepts.
It might be prudent to add that Google Translate is lost even if you do understand the source language. I find it good only for single word translations to check nuances, or overall a paragraph or passage that might have words in it that Google occasionally replaces with a better choice for the context, or at least throws out a different word that might ring a better bell.
Andrew & Nik : How about getting some ” high-quality comments that make original contributions to discussion ” .
For days we have been seeing trivia about a person who is responsible for the suffering of over 100 people in dreadful conditions in Thai jails – just because they speak the truth.
Compare the comments with Andrew Spooner’s :
“Let’s hope Amnesty have both the courage and the principles to formally campaign for her release and that the incoming Pheu Thai government does the right thing and releases all 112 lese majeste prisoners immediately. If anyone deserves an amnesty, it is them.”
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Htoo Htoo Han the confessor
New Mandala readers following this story will want to know that another Burmese refugee in Australia has come forward with claims about his involvement in killings on behalf of Burma’s military government. The Sydney Morning Herald has more.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
ABC TV on Thai politics
Turn the clock back a few hundred years for a different outcome. Say Australia was not colonized by the English. The Aborigines were left to there own devices….. En English girl moves to what is now Sydney and starts a school for the Aboriginal elders and there children. Some Chinese and Indians come down and set up stores and farm some rice. Now move the clock back to the twenty first century. The”could have been” version of 21st century Australia: There is fighting between the established leadership aborigines and the opportunistic new money aborigines who supported America in their waring efforts, profiting from the contracts. The massive population has to be kept in the dark to keep them working and breeding. Most of the hundred million population earn $5 a day and work on farms or sweat shops/prostitution patronized by the rich Countries of Europe and North america
The answer to this alternative version of Australia: The old leadership will have to share with the new enterprising breed of leaders. Technology -that is the revolution of the twenty first century can be promoted to the masses so that they can see that Environmentally disastrous consumption- as rampant in west- is not sustainable and therefor not fashionable. With this new freedom of information they will see that the west was developed by people who had to battle harsh winters every year. Over many thousands of years they became very hard working organized people -so as to survive the harsh environment. This promoted advanced lifestyles that never eventuated (and are unnecessary)in warmer year round mild climates
Relaunch of Southeast Asian Studies
There have been some excellent articles in the Kyoto Journal of Southeast Asian Studies over the years –although many of them have remained difficult to find.
An outstanding contribution from Katherine Bowie remains hidden in plain view on the following web-page (that can somehow be reached through their website):
Slavery in Nineteenth Century Northern Thailand: Archival Anecdotes and Village Voices
http://kyotoreviewsea.org/slavery1.htm
Years ago, I conducted a survey of the literature dealing with slavery in Thailand (and, to a lesser extent, its neighbors in mainland Southeast Asia) and I found to my surprise that this is one of extremely few articles broaching the issues concerned –and, indeed, the paucity of western or eastern scholarship in this area is briefly discussed within Bowie’s article itself.
It was on paper that I discovered their (now relatively old) special issue on Cambodia, as a copy was adventitiously gathering dust in Phnom Penh, and I only later figured out that it was possible to download each of the articles concerned from the website (after going to some lengths to photocopy the thing).
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Thai prince’s second jet faces impounding: report
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE76N1CW20110724
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
In case folk are wondering why we are watching the reputation of Thailand sink lower every day this may be part of the answer:
Ten years ago in a Bangkok Bar I met an American academic who bragged about how he wrote the 1997 Thai Constitution.
True or false I know not, but the present version could well have been written by the US State Department for the Thai military.
In the US the President is elected in November but does not take office until January. Plenty of time for the out going president to get up to tricks like pardoning favorite criminals, veto-ing UN Security Council resolutions etc. And as an American friend said to me “The founding Fathers did not trust the people to vote so they inserted an electoral college of ‘wise men’ to choose the president”.
How similar is Thailand in 2011 with the outgoing Foreign Minister causing maximum embarrasment and our “Election Commission” presiding over the formation of a new parliament.
How different the British system where the day after the vote, a defeated Prime Minister concedes defeat and visits the King to tender his resignation and advise the monarch to invite the leader of the winning party to form a government.
This is how things are done in Australia and at the 1972 election which saw Labor defeat the conservative Liberals who had been in power for 23 years, a government of two was sworn in on the Monday after the Saturday election. Prime Minister Edward Gough Whitlam and his deputy Lance Barnard then governed the country for two weeks as the final numbers in the parliament were decided to allow the Labor caucus to elect a full ministry.
In those two weeks the government issued a host of decrees which changed the country literally over night. One of the first was to order the release from jail the brave young men who had refused to be drafted to fight in the American genocidal war against VietNam.
How different is Thailand with Prime Minister Abhisit conceding defeat but continuing to govern and continuing to imprison political dissenters.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
erewhon @118: re “the surprise appearance of the plane’s twin” noted @99: Apparently a second Thai 737 recently appeared at the Munich airport, parked next to the impounded 737.
Anyone know about the second 737? A temporary replacement for the CP to use? Subject to impoundment? Does Thailand claim it has diplomatic immunity?
Unlocking Laos
I can only see this resulting in a greater exploitation of Laos – particularly in terms of its natural resources (and resource exploitation primarily impacts the poor) and will accelerate the already growing disparities in wealth within the country. LDCs *always* give more than they receive as they become integrated more thoroughly into the global market economy, although the well-connected elites will obviously benefit. I understand I’m stating the obvious here.
In a sense it’s similar to elite collaboration with occupying forces (Nazi occupied France comes to mind) – the collaborators will continue to benefit financially while the occupiers, who have few reasons to ensure the welfare of a country’s population and environment, will ‘suck the marrow from the bone’ so to speak. I consider this to be a ‘realist’ perspective based on what we have seen occur historically in similar scenarios. I’m sure Laos will also see an acceleration in Han Chinese immigration into the country.
Unlocking Laos
I live in Laos. I have to agree with Shan 1,000%. I am American by nationality but ethnically Laos….I lived in the US since 4 years of age. I am now 36. I have 15 years of professional work experience with Fortune 500 companies. I have an MBA. Now that you know a little about my background….I have lived in Laos for the past 2.5 years with my very Anglo husband and 3 children. Half the country is related to me …. even the government officials.
And I still agree with Shan.
Thailand’s corruption record
The only debate left is whether or not there is/was any other Thai who should wield the title ‘Mother of all Thai Corruption’, if not Thaksin.
Thaksin indeed pushed the boundaries when it came to corruption . . . and corrupting Thai institutions. The recent wikileaks about Thaksin skimming the national lottery and using the Thai Deputy Police Chief as the bagman to make the deliveries to we-know-who should underscore that point.
And Snoh’s bombshell of a book of the extent of the Thaksin-Potjaman mafia-like corruption regime also underscore the genius of Thaksin when it comes to organized large scale corruption. Excerpts:
“He placed one of his own people in every ministry. These people did not need to have a powerful post, but everybody knew who they were … If any minister wanted to propose a project using the central budget, the minister would first have to clear it with ‘his person’ first. Many ministers were approached by ‘his person’ saying, ‘The budget is coming. You can have five or six billion, but 10 per cent must go to the party … Any minister who would not do this, could not remain.”
Snoh then explained how the system worked.
“For this 10 per cent policy, the minister would have to pad the budget proposed for approval to include the 10 per cent that would go to the party. Then once it was agreed with ‘his person’ via Khunying, the matter could be sent to his trusted ‘permanent political representative’, who used to be his company employee. To date nobody knows how much this 10 per cent amounts to. Probably need to ask Khunying.”
Snoh claims to have asked Pojaman what she needed so many billions for, and got this answer: “In politics you have to hand out money. It has to be considered a business.” Snoh asked her what would happen if things blew up, and she replied, “If Thaksin falls, the Thai Rak Thai Party will have to stay in power for at least two more terms for safety.”
(Note: Thaksin missed that ‘at least two more terms for safety’ and indeed had to flee Thailand)
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Bangkok Post business section today make a reasonable attempt to lay out the background to the plane affair.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/aviation/248496/how-the-turbulence-began
But of course with a bias that assumes that any statement by government officials outweighs all documentary evidence to the contrary.
And at the end a candid statement from a Thai lawyer, “arbitration is a difficult way to settle contractual disputes since the government often doesn’t honour the arbitration rulings”
And not just contractual disputes, applies to border disputes also…..
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Sounds like Junior is bucking for a new plane.
Analysis of Thailand’s prospects
In the next few weeks I will have my Literature students studying documents surrounding the English Civil War (having just covered the so-called “King James” Bible . Everything seems to evolve out of KJ I’s attempt to replace the seditious Geneva Bible that had commentary against extreme unction and the response of Puritans and Parliamentarians to limit the authority and role of the monarchy. Cromwell was in a position to declare the banishment of royalty altogether in a sort of Grand Republic. The Puritans who founded the Plymouth Bay Colony sure had republican ideas.
Although we can’t use the Thai govt. university classroom to discuss the political situation very effectively, I can only imagine what Thai students might seek to apply from this theme.
Do New Mandela readers want to help limit the parallels to the Thai situation?
The Kachin war in regional perspective
I enjoy gleaning what little I can from irrawady, karennationalunion.net, shanland.org, burmadigest.info, burmanet.org.
There is so little of this that summarizes or documents on maps the progression of resistance in terms of battles, skirmishes, sabotage, military executions/population reduction. It’s just so difficult to get the big picture here.
Your article here begins to do more of that. Thank you.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Donnatella (c.122), I think you may have missed the ironic inflection in Stuart’s comment. Sometimes a mistranslation may inadvertently get closer to the truth of what actually happened than a correct translation.
And on Ricky’s point (c.124) about people in Thai jails for the crime of thinking and speaking their thoughts, I am extremely pleased that the Bangkok Post has, for the first time in a very long time, perhaps the first time ever, seen fit to inform us about the condition of one of these prisoners. Thank you, Achara Ashayagachat, you redeem something of my very diminished faith in Thai journalism. May it continue.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/248319/daranee-release-democracy-protectors
Nationalism and genetics: Thai obsession with race
Just stumbled across this post recently and thought I would add my two-cents worth by posting a couple links to articles relating to this topic. Unfortunately for the ‘Thai’ researchers, the genetics of ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ do not pair up with the typical social concepts.
1. Do Races Differ? Not Really, Genes Show: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/22/science/do-races-differ-not-really-genes-show.html
2. Is Race Real?: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/11/opinion/is-race-real.html
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
#122
New Mandala is lost if you do not understand irony.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Donatella Toddawally
It’s called I-R-O-N-Y. Clearly, lost on some people.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
It might be prudent to add that Google Translate is lost even if you do understand the source language. I find it good only for single word translations to check nuances, or overall a paragraph or passage that might have words in it that Google occasionally replaces with a better choice for the context, or at least throws out a different word that might ring a better bell.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Andrew & Nik : How about getting some ” high-quality comments that make original contributions to discussion ” .
For days we have been seeing trivia about a person who is responsible for the suffering of over 100 people in dreadful conditions in Thai jails – just because they speak the truth.
Compare the comments with Andrew Spooner’s :
“Let’s hope Amnesty have both the courage and the principles to formally campaign for her release and that the incoming Pheu Thai government does the right thing and releases all 112 lese majeste prisoners immediately. If anyone deserves an amnesty, it is them.”
http://asiancorrespondent.com/60695/an-interview-with-da-torpedo-thailand%E2%80%99s-lady-in-the-iron-mask/
And while on this subject where is the network in Thailand preparing to go on the streets to demand what Andrew s. calls for?
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
A link to an intersting post on the plane affair form Political Prisoners Thailand blog:
http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/stranger-and-stranger-on-the-plane/