Dont throw your bullshit story here bro. we already got tv3, RTM, ASTRO and the Newspapers doing that. BERSIH definitely a voice to change. Ever see Opposite be allow using TV, radio to campaign??? zero to none.
This look like a really nice international conference with tons of interesting people. I did not know that there are such a large female group of Buddhist all over the world. Looking forward to see some changes through these events.
Baffling that the Muslim population didn’t vote for more massacres, or that the Buddhist population didn’t vote for further antagonism of the insurgents? Really?
It’s not rocket science if you take your ideological blinkers.
Patsan #14, the ‘educated’ isn’t that far off from the ‘uneducated’ then. You see directors praying for good fortune. Politicians touring Temples for spiritual advice both from prophets & monks. Superstition is everywhere in this country, from the elites to the poor.
I bet I can find a tree rubbing doctor somewhere in this country. And a farmer who blogs & skype with his children.
What you need to stop is clamoring to stereotype. Look at things layer by layer. Humans are sophisticated beings, and you’d do well to remember that.
To me, the south is baffling. They voted for the dems, even though they know things are likely to get worse under them. Still they endured for the sake of ‘our own people’? What good is the guys from your hometown, if they more likely to end up robbing you blind?
before you ask unity in spirit, why not u ask yourself can you pay in unity all the damages and the losses suffered by those affected by the rallies??
i am sure there won’t be any unity at all..
we malaysian are well known for being mild mannered.
why must take to the street?
is there really an economic crisis in the country?
does unployment rate is skyrocket high?
does our graduates can’t find a good job?
are people being arrested in the middle of the night and not being seen again?
is there any food crisis?
is there a secret police in the county?
it seem none of the above happen or occurred in our country, but allt he above does existed in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, Syiria,
does our democracy is like in those countries?
does individual freedom in our country are like in those countries?
the answer is none.
our beloved country is not like those country i mentioned above.
food is abundance, so do job, education is free, freedom is there but with limitation.
like it or not, freedom of speech have to be limited.
we cant go arround and say what ever we want without thinking of the feeling of others or the consequences of what we said or write or do..
i believe there is no religions in this world condone any act that will cause hurt to other..
and i believe street protest will bring much hurt than happiness to the people…
If there is no democratic in the country then how come the opposition manage to win the state of kedah, perak, selangor, kelantan and penang in the previous election?
I wonder why….Maybe in those states the opposition used a very strong mantra and shaman (bomoh) to make sure all the ghost voters cannot come to vote on the election day..
If the people really respect the law, then they shouldn’t go into street to protest. I believe the law is there to protect people. No need to protest and bring street politic into the country.
Maybe choas is what the opposition wanted. To me this street protest is just a way for one of the opposition leader to deflect the world attention from his another sexual escapade scandal which this time arround managed to be recorded. By whom? well none other than his former best friend.
what good does the street protest do to the country??
just another bad image given and another way to make the police look bad. if you malaysian really a law abiding citizen who love n respect the king, then should have not go to the street.
anbiga, before the protest met the King. what did she bring? any memorandum? none whatsoever. Later she said the protest won’t GO AHEAD… but we know what happen afterwards.. is this what we need? a person who lies and cannot be trusted!! whatmore she is a lawyer..
another question, why do the protest in Kl?
why there is not street protest in the state which is under the opposition control???
why must they do it in the KL area where it effected all those traders who have suffered millions in their earning. Not to mention all the taxi drivers who suffer too as they can’t get any business.
the best place to voice out our aggrieve and disatisfaction is through the election. but before you asked for a fairer election etc, i just want to ask those who participated in the rally, have you registered??
New Mandala readers keen to see what a seasoned blogger can produce in 40 minutes will appreciate the effort by Lowy’s Graeme Dobell. It is now available here.
Failure of OTOP program? Are you kidding? Last I was in Tokyo, a professor there was just telling me how impress they were by it! That OTOP (the concept) was so successfully implemented in Thailand when it did not quite take off in Japan.
If you are looking at failure cases, of course there are! When I was attending my MBA, a lecturer on start-ups mentioned that less then 5% of startups survived 5 years. So do look at the success stories, and expect there to be a lot more failures than success.
On another note, I highly respect these paganistic rural Thais who respect their environments and their roots. I highly esteemed my former farmer friends from Isaan who with barely any quality education and no English speaking ability, managed to get to Australia, worked, learn English, save money, eventually buy their own Thai eatery and feed their family, then bring their parents across.
My question to you is very simple: If you do not have parents who paid for your quality Education. If you had no money in your pocket. If you know your fellow urbane Bangkok citizens deemed you ignorant. Would you have had the guts, the brains, the determination to take out a loan from a loan shark (yes, loan shark, not civilized bank with collateral), travel alone to another country that do not speak your language, and made it there? Would you?
Think again before you say anything about those you consider are ” real poor, ignorant and uneducated people”.
They may be poor, uneducated, perhaps even ignorant. But I tell you all they lack is opportunity – the opportunity that you and I have. Give them that, and you will find they have other values. They have courage in the face of adversary. They are stubborn, persistent, they do not give up easily. They are loyal – they remember who are their friends. They are ‘paganistic’ – walking around tree humming – but will repay every debt they promise to repay because they fear the consequences. They are hardworking – what boss do not like hardworking souls? At the end of the journey, I seriously doubt if one can call them ignorant anymore.
The link that Hobby provided #12, as well as post #11
were for me eye-openers (not that they weren’t already open, but just really shocked at the micromanagement and the in depth involvement of all the players.
I also look forward to Andrew Marshall’s story continued for part 3 and part 4.
Now I just want to get back to some pre-coup issues in 2006, and why I think the ambassador says something along the lines of Thaksin needs to look at his own faults, and why maybe Thaksin over meddled and muddled up the issues, making it worse for Thailand as a whole himself when he upped the ante.
I will start from the sale of Shincorp. While not illegal, perhaps a donation in the same amount of the avoided tax to a charitable cause would have bought him a lot of goodwill. Big Mistake.
In April, to the relief of (arguably) the majority in the country, he quit as PM, then left the country “for a holiday”. Only to subsequently take the chair back in time for His Majesty’s ascension to the throne. It was not so nice and left a terrible taste in his opponent’s mouth, and sent a message that “I Thaksin will do whatever I want whenever I want”. It also meant he could not be trusted.
The 1 party election was a farce. Sure, the Democrats did not join the election, and the other ‘big’ parties also boycotted the election. They were wrong to subvert democracy. However, that does not excuse Thaksin’s government (and his selected Election Commission) of turning the ballot booth to a position where the whole world could see your vote. That is voter intimidation at its worst!
Let us also not forget the “Paragon gate” wherein his (Thaksin’s) supporters beat up a few PAD members with the police just watching on.
Then there was the issue of bribing small parties.
All these issues were (and remain to be) serious issues. Unfortunately for us, the Thai public, the coup, the subverting of democracy, and the blatant abuses in the fact finding committees and Constitutional Court promulgating a ban on TRT without even listening or accepting evidence on the other side (then finding the Democrat party innocent for monetary donations)…. in other words, the perversions and the blatant “nah-kleadness” of Thaksin’s opponents took over Thaksin’s “nah-klead” already.
In all this, perhaps it would have been better to do nothing, and with time, allow the tide of public opinion to change.
But given that the population are taught to believe that a “good” person can never go bad, no matter what; then perhaps these people (the establishment) were scared that Thaksin would be viewed as a permanent leader to the masses.
And everything they have done to prevent it has only made that image of “Thaksin – people’s man” stronger.
And had the establishment just allowed things to play its course in 2006 without a couping interference, wonder who the voters would take the wrath out on in 2008 when the market crashed!
I won!!! We had on-line voting (via mobile phone at the end). I got the most votes, by a very slim margin. Trouble is that there were 200 votes cast and only about 120 people in the room!
If non-implementation of policies occurs the question will be where blame goes. No party is as effective as getting message over as PTP.
Now if the government doesnt get seated because of some panicky establishment ruse, there will be many people saying hey Im not getting the tab for kiddy, and Im still only on 167 for digging holes and I could do with that credit card to get some fertilizer and it is all because they wont let the government I voted for into power.
And if it could also happen that the tab never came because the education minister was from because of those pesky little coalition parties that everyone knows used to be all matey with Abhisit.
And of course, if there is all this pressure form all those rich business people or some little rule about borrowing that some court wants to enforce
Or horror of horrors just as the government were going to give the goodies out along came a coup or court decision
In there lies the establishments problem, interfering with PTP as no doubt they will try, will likely result in them blamed for stopping the poor get a better deal. They really have little choice but to let PTP get on with anything they want to do and face the wrath of voters if they cant deliver. However, it wont work that way as the establishment just wont be able to stop themselves interfering with the all too predictable results that everyone except those in the establishment will be able to see.
It is more than just about marketing. The PTP have learned lessons from their set backs and defeats, while their opponents still fail to grasp any reality
Thanks for this summary Brooke. Was there update/discussion about the 2009 Bhikkuni ordination conducted by Ajarn Brahm in Perth? Despite his ‘excommunication’, have there been subsequent Bhikkuni ordinations at Bodhinyana Monastery? Have ties been repaired with Wat Pa Nanachat? Should we expect more such ordinations at Bodhinyana or Therevadan monasteries elsewhere?
@ Iskandar and @ Jais – Malaysia is indeed a group of mild mannered people but one who for too long was afraid of UMNO. Things have changed.
Having said that, I just wonder if we only had the common decency to respect each other as human beings, and defend that – then the rule of law and respect for our institutions would be a natural outcome, and justice will be served.
We will not need to resort to unelected office, either His Majesty – the Yang DiPertuan Agung or the other king of Malaysia – Mahathir Mohamed – to resolve our problems.
It is slowly becoming clear to most neutral Malaysians, if it is not already, the unless UMNO is removed, Malaysia cannot move forward.
Please spare me the patronising “you not Thai, you know nothing” mantra. While I’m sure some rural Thais do indeed spend their time “humming around aged trees and rubbing bark for 3-digit numbers”, the opinions of those I have spoken with strongly suggest to me that you need to get out more. You’re living in la-la-land, my friend. It’s time to listen to what your own people are trying to tell you; or catch a very large smack between the eyes. The last four elections would be a good start.
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Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
Dont throw your bullshit story here bro. we already got tv3, RTM, ASTRO and the Newspapers doing that. BERSIH definitely a voice to change. Ever see Opposite be allow using TV, radio to campaign??? zero to none.
BTW AWESOME LADY. SALUTE.
12th Sakyadhita International Conference in Bangkok
This look like a really nice international conference with tons of interesting people. I did not know that there are such a large female group of Buddhist all over the world. Looking forward to see some changes through these events.
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
[…] http://www.newmandala.org/2011/07/11/malaysias-lady-liberty/ […]
Democrat dominance in the deep south
Baffling that the Muslim population didn’t vote for more massacres, or that the Buddhist population didn’t vote for further antagonism of the insurgents? Really?
It’s not rocket science if you take your ideological blinkers.
Thailand’s corruption record
Patsan #14, the ‘educated’ isn’t that far off from the ‘uneducated’ then. You see directors praying for good fortune. Politicians touring Temples for spiritual advice both from prophets & monks. Superstition is everywhere in this country, from the elites to the poor.
I bet I can find a tree rubbing doctor somewhere in this country. And a farmer who blogs & skype with his children.
What you need to stop is clamoring to stereotype. Look at things layer by layer. Humans are sophisticated beings, and you’d do well to remember that.
Democrat dominance in the deep south
To me, the south is baffling. They voted for the dems, even though they know things are likely to get worse under them. Still they endured for the sake of ‘our own people’? What good is the guys from your hometown, if they more likely to end up robbing you blind?
Baffling.
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
before you ask unity in spirit, why not u ask yourself can you pay in unity all the damages and the losses suffered by those affected by the rallies??
i am sure there won’t be any unity at all..
we malaysian are well known for being mild mannered.
why must take to the street?
is there really an economic crisis in the country?
does unployment rate is skyrocket high?
does our graduates can’t find a good job?
are people being arrested in the middle of the night and not being seen again?
is there any food crisis?
is there a secret police in the county?
it seem none of the above happen or occurred in our country, but allt he above does existed in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, Syiria,
does our democracy is like in those countries?
does individual freedom in our country are like in those countries?
the answer is none.
our beloved country is not like those country i mentioned above.
food is abundance, so do job, education is free, freedom is there but with limitation.
like it or not, freedom of speech have to be limited.
we cant go arround and say what ever we want without thinking of the feeling of others or the consequences of what we said or write or do..
i believe there is no religions in this world condone any act that will cause hurt to other..
and i believe street protest will bring much hurt than happiness to the people…
BERSIH 2.0 overcomes the police state
If there is no democratic in the country then how come the opposition manage to win the state of kedah, perak, selangor, kelantan and penang in the previous election?
I wonder why….Maybe in those states the opposition used a very strong mantra and shaman (bomoh) to make sure all the ghost voters cannot come to vote on the election day..
If the people really respect the law, then they shouldn’t go into street to protest. I believe the law is there to protect people. No need to protest and bring street politic into the country.
Maybe choas is what the opposition wanted. To me this street protest is just a way for one of the opposition leader to deflect the world attention from his another sexual escapade scandal which this time arround managed to be recorded. By whom? well none other than his former best friend.
what good does the street protest do to the country??
just another bad image given and another way to make the police look bad. if you malaysian really a law abiding citizen who love n respect the king, then should have not go to the street.
anbiga, before the protest met the King. what did she bring? any memorandum? none whatsoever. Later she said the protest won’t GO AHEAD… but we know what happen afterwards.. is this what we need? a person who lies and cannot be trusted!! whatmore she is a lawyer..
another question, why do the protest in Kl?
why there is not street protest in the state which is under the opposition control???
why must they do it in the KL area where it effected all those traders who have suffered millions in their earning. Not to mention all the taxi drivers who suffer too as they can’t get any business.
the best place to voice out our aggrieve and disatisfaction is through the election. but before you asked for a fairer election etc, i just want to ask those who participated in the rally, have you registered??
if not, there is no point in talking…
Master blogging challenge
New Mandala readers keen to see what a seasoned blogger can produce in 40 minutes will appreciate the effort by Lowy’s Graeme Dobell. It is now available here.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Thailand’s corruption record
@Patsan
Failure of OTOP program? Are you kidding? Last I was in Tokyo, a professor there was just telling me how impress they were by it! That OTOP (the concept) was so successfully implemented in Thailand when it did not quite take off in Japan.
If you are looking at failure cases, of course there are! When I was attending my MBA, a lecturer on start-ups mentioned that less then 5% of startups survived 5 years. So do look at the success stories, and expect there to be a lot more failures than success.
On another note, I highly respect these paganistic rural Thais who respect their environments and their roots. I highly esteemed my former farmer friends from Isaan who with barely any quality education and no English speaking ability, managed to get to Australia, worked, learn English, save money, eventually buy their own Thai eatery and feed their family, then bring their parents across.
My question to you is very simple: If you do not have parents who paid for your quality Education. If you had no money in your pocket. If you know your fellow urbane Bangkok citizens deemed you ignorant. Would you have had the guts, the brains, the determination to take out a loan from a loan shark (yes, loan shark, not civilized bank with collateral), travel alone to another country that do not speak your language, and made it there? Would you?
Think again before you say anything about those you consider are ” real poor, ignorant and uneducated people”.
They may be poor, uneducated, perhaps even ignorant. But I tell you all they lack is opportunity – the opportunity that you and I have. Give them that, and you will find they have other values. They have courage in the face of adversary. They are stubborn, persistent, they do not give up easily. They are loyal – they remember who are their friends. They are ‘paganistic’ – walking around tree humming – but will repay every debt they promise to repay because they fear the consequences. They are hardworking – what boss do not like hardworking souls? At the end of the journey, I seriously doubt if one can call them ignorant anymore.
More on Marshall’s Thai Story
The link that Hobby provided #12, as well as post #11
were for me eye-openers (not that they weren’t already open, but just really shocked at the micromanagement and the in depth involvement of all the players.
I also look forward to Andrew Marshall’s story continued for part 3 and part 4.
Now I just want to get back to some pre-coup issues in 2006, and why I think the ambassador says something along the lines of Thaksin needs to look at his own faults, and why maybe Thaksin over meddled and muddled up the issues, making it worse for Thailand as a whole himself when he upped the ante.
I will start from the sale of Shincorp. While not illegal, perhaps a donation in the same amount of the avoided tax to a charitable cause would have bought him a lot of goodwill. Big Mistake.
In April, to the relief of (arguably) the majority in the country, he quit as PM, then left the country “for a holiday”. Only to subsequently take the chair back in time for His Majesty’s ascension to the throne. It was not so nice and left a terrible taste in his opponent’s mouth, and sent a message that “I Thaksin will do whatever I want whenever I want”. It also meant he could not be trusted.
The 1 party election was a farce. Sure, the Democrats did not join the election, and the other ‘big’ parties also boycotted the election. They were wrong to subvert democracy. However, that does not excuse Thaksin’s government (and his selected Election Commission) of turning the ballot booth to a position where the whole world could see your vote. That is voter intimidation at its worst!
Let us also not forget the “Paragon gate” wherein his (Thaksin’s) supporters beat up a few PAD members with the police just watching on.
Then there was the issue of bribing small parties.
All these issues were (and remain to be) serious issues. Unfortunately for us, the Thai public, the coup, the subverting of democracy, and the blatant abuses in the fact finding committees and Constitutional Court promulgating a ban on TRT without even listening or accepting evidence on the other side (then finding the Democrat party innocent for monetary donations)…. in other words, the perversions and the blatant “nah-kleadness” of Thaksin’s opponents took over Thaksin’s “nah-klead” already.
In all this, perhaps it would have been better to do nothing, and with time, allow the tide of public opinion to change.
But given that the population are taught to believe that a “good” person can never go bad, no matter what; then perhaps these people (the establishment) were scared that Thaksin would be viewed as a permanent leader to the masses.
And everything they have done to prevent it has only made that image of “Thaksin – people’s man” stronger.
It really does remind me of Kung-fu Panda 2!
Master blogging challenge
Trouble is that there were 200 votes cast and only about 120 people in the room!
sounds like an election in Thailand, Chicago, or Texas
Analysis of Thailand’s prospects
Nobody #20
excellent post!
And had the establishment just allowed things to play its course in 2006 without a couping interference, wonder who the voters would take the wrath out on in 2008 when the market crashed!
Master blogging challenge
I won!!! We had on-line voting (via mobile phone at the end). I got the most votes, by a very slim margin. Trouble is that there were 200 votes cast and only about 120 people in the room!
Master blogging challenge
Why did you get YELLOW corner rather than the RED one?
I wish you best of luck under that color 😉
Analysis of Thailand’s prospects
If non-implementation of policies occurs the question will be where blame goes. No party is as effective as getting message over as PTP.
Now if the government doesnt get seated because of some panicky establishment ruse, there will be many people saying hey Im not getting the tab for kiddy, and Im still only on 167 for digging holes and I could do with that credit card to get some fertilizer and it is all because they wont let the government I voted for into power.
And if it could also happen that the tab never came because the education minister was from because of those pesky little coalition parties that everyone knows used to be all matey with Abhisit.
And of course, if there is all this pressure form all those rich business people or some little rule about borrowing that some court wants to enforce
Or horror of horrors just as the government were going to give the goodies out along came a coup or court decision
In there lies the establishments problem, interfering with PTP as no doubt they will try, will likely result in them blamed for stopping the poor get a better deal. They really have little choice but to let PTP get on with anything they want to do and face the wrath of voters if they cant deliver. However, it wont work that way as the establishment just wont be able to stop themselves interfering with the all too predictable results that everyone except those in the establishment will be able to see.
It is more than just about marketing. The PTP have learned lessons from their set backs and defeats, while their opponents still fail to grasp any reality
12th Sakyadhita International Conference in Bangkok
Thanks for this summary Brooke. Was there update/discussion about the 2009 Bhikkuni ordination conducted by Ajarn Brahm in Perth? Despite his ‘excommunication’, have there been subsequent Bhikkuni ordinations at Bodhinyana Monastery? Have ties been repaired with Wat Pa Nanachat? Should we expect more such ordinations at Bodhinyana or Therevadan monasteries elsewhere?
National lunacy
Vichai N @ 64
You didn’t deny democrat vote buying. Was this an over site on your part? Maybe you will be on the carpet before your superiors too.
BERSIH 2.0 overcomes the police state
@ Iskandar and @ Jais – Malaysia is indeed a group of mild mannered people but one who for too long was afraid of UMNO. Things have changed.
Having said that, I just wonder if we only had the common decency to respect each other as human beings, and defend that – then the rule of law and respect for our institutions would be a natural outcome, and justice will be served.
We will not need to resort to unelected office, either His Majesty – the Yang DiPertuan Agung or the other king of Malaysia – Mahathir Mohamed – to resolve our problems.
It is slowly becoming clear to most neutral Malaysians, if it is not already, the unless UMNO is removed, Malaysia cannot move forward.
Thailand’s corruption record
Patsan
Please spare me the patronising “you not Thai, you know nothing” mantra. While I’m sure some rural Thais do indeed spend their time “humming around aged trees and rubbing bark for 3-digit numbers”, the opinions of those I have spoken with strongly suggest to me that you need to get out more. You’re living in la-la-land, my friend. It’s time to listen to what your own people are trying to tell you; or catch a very large smack between the eyes. The last four elections would be a good start.