Kate: It is very surprising that you know so little about the administration you choose defend in terms that match their own words. Here I am commenting on your claim at 71.
Yes, Thaksin lashed the media and attempted to control debate. like all govts in Thailand he tried to control state media, and he did throw Sondhi Lim’s show off, but, tell, how many media outlets did he actually close? And how many URLs did his government officially censor?
Recall that the State Department’s 2010 Human Rights report states that there are no political prisoners in Thailand. At the time they wrote this there were 200-300 red shirts and LM victims locked up. So how is it that they are so wrong? Maybe it is the Bahrain syndrome?
If you think and speak skeptically we usually get hammered for doing so (for being aggressive and what not) and if we got lucky we will be charge with LM so I guess that’s the reason why many Thais don’t “want” to think skeptically.
Just to let u know that I did reply to your comment, unfortunately it was removed for no reason. Seems like my Freedom of Speech here is quite limited. 🙂 I might add though red shirts in Thailand can make a comment 10 times stronger than mine and I see it is allowed to be heard on Thai political forums (even on a pro- Democrat site like Serithai.net). Feel free to check, if you don’t believe me. Some of you claim to read and write Thai very well, right.
CT: Why do some Thais (like you) see reality and think skeptically about the ways things are in Thailand, while so many do not, even after they’ve studied and lived outside Thailand for a while?
CT
It just goes to show you that this whole escapade is proof of who the real heros of the day are: Bradley E. Manning and Julian Assange.
If I were to meet Mr Manning, we probably would hate each others guts and politics. But who else is answering the call?
Obviously Mr Assange _allegedly_ has his personal issues, but does it not seem that those qualities make him more suited to lead the IMF or be be a U.S. Congressman? But who else is answering the call?
We need more Wikileaks, because “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” – Upton Sinclair
We actively discourage any single voice from monopolising New Mandala, especially with repetitive interventions. Like in any good seminar, we moderate discussion to ensure that different voices and perspectives are heard.
We have been running New Mandala for almost five years and this is our longstanding practice.
lol I think I deserve an explanation as to why my comment on this topic has been removed. Ain’t you guys been screaming that Thai people in Thailand should have more freedom of speech ? How about starting by giving a freedom of speech here in this site first, otherwise you have no ground to support what you’re trying to propose what we Thais should do in our country. 🙂
@ yuri 72
It is a police authority and responsibility to arrest whoever violated the law, unlike Thaksin who used his power to remove medias/commentators who criticized him when they didn’t even violate the law, hey since you mentioned it, I think Thaksin is more likely the one who could have learned this tactics from Burma, isn’t the guy a good friend of Burma dictator General Gen Khin Nyunt ?, They were “business” partner when Thaksin was still “in power”. lol
Anyway, your invisible backers or hands (or whatever) propaganda just works among you people. As far as I’m concern, Abhisit has “visible” backers, they are the majority of House of Representatives who voted for him on 15 December 2008, the voting process was broadcast live and I watched it from my own eyes, now that’s to me is “visible” . And please don’t throw that “illegitimate” thingy to me, I’m sure if Pracha got the majority vote that day, you wouldn’t say the same thing about him right, talkin about double stand haha.
“there but for the grace of god (luck, chance) go I”
underlying our comfortable lives is the knowledge of human strata, a few above, many below
in Australia we (apparently a majority of the population?) force the desperate arriving in rickety boats down to a lower level than those that are more like tourists, work through immigration bureaucracy and arrive by plane
is this because we prefer to live with people that were not desperate and know how to deal with government bureaucrats?
Thank you that you think my contribution is interesting, although I certainly think I do not deserve your praise. Many Thais have far more interesting things to say than me. But the reason you don’t get to read them is either because they are not proficient enough in English to really express what they really think here, or that they fear that they would be jailed for posting something online.
In fact, I am quite scared about it as well. I hope newmandala will not give out my IP to the Thai authorities…I still don’t wanna join Khun Da Torpedo…:p
@Norbert said:
“[Thailand]…is a dark cruel land ruled by dark cruel people clinging to an imagined past, when rulers ruled and the serfs and slaves obeyed, prostrating themselves, grovelling, presenting the backs of their necks for instant execution should their masters be displeased.”
The problem is many Thais don’t know this. They fell for the propaganda shown to them daily on TV, and they see the evil as god. Thus, they are ready to do anything to protect them. They see everything their ‘gods’ do as righteous, and they are ready to harm people who do not agree with them. What is happening in Thailand now is not so different from the Nazi era in Germany, unfortunately 🙁
@Concerned American
I am grateful that you try to do something about this. In fact I am very surprised why the Americans do not take much interest about this issue. I vividly remember years ago when the Aussies were enraged when Van Tuong Nguyen, a Vietnamese Australian, was sentenced to death in Singapore for drug smuggling. They came out and protested on the streets, despite the fact that what Mr Nguyen did was CLEARLY wrong. In this situation, however, what Mr Gordon has done is definitely not a wrong anywhere in any civilized country. And he was jailed because of it. I am surprised that the reaction in the US about this matter was not as strong…
…but to be fair, I must say that the Aussies did not really protest that heavily when Mr Nicolaides was jailed as well…
As you brought up Somtow, I have many if not all of his books, it came to me as a shock he was so “mind-violently” for the yellows as his blog demonstrates. Ok his books on afterthought were clearly elitist, that was nice as in fiction (like the subway under sukhumvit for the rich ones), but IRL… Was it on bkk post or nation where his hate-amsterdam editorial appeared ?
Perhaps it is time for Thais to consider the way they are viewed by the rest of the world, not as a liberal western-style democracy, but as a democracy like that of the DPRK or Burma.
And there will be more friendly visits cancelled (think David Cameron) and Thai represenatives to international organizations will be treated glacially (think of Surakiart Sathirathai failed attempt to be UN Head).
And most diplomats will be here to urge Thailand to comply with international agreements, be they the The Convention on Cluster Munitions, or the Internationa Court of Justice, or the Convention for Refugees, or UN Convention against Corruption, or UN Convention against Corruption, or the one onHuman Rights, or the one on Stateless Persons…..etc.
And the thought in the back of each diplomats mind when greeting the Thai PM will be…. “will this look like the Dec 20, 1983 – Donald Rumsfeld shakeing hands with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein? Maybe I should grimice.”
Roger said Perhaps we have all missed the point of why the election was called in the first place?
Consider when the banned executive of the old TRT become eligible to run for office again because their 5 years is nearly up?
Ban is not up until middle of next year and an election has to be held before then as the term is only for four years so this does not seem relevant to the timing of an early election..
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Yingluck on the streets
Kate: It is very surprising that you know so little about the administration you choose defend in terms that match their own words. Here I am commenting on your claim at 71.
Yes, Thaksin lashed the media and attempted to control debate. like all govts in Thailand he tried to control state media, and he did throw Sondhi Lim’s show off, but, tell, how many media outlets did he actually close? And how many URLs did his government officially censor?
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Recall that the State Department’s 2010 Human Rights report states that there are no political prisoners in Thailand. At the time they wrote this there were 200-300 red shirts and LM victims locked up. So how is it that they are so wrong? Maybe it is the Bahrain syndrome?
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
BKK lawyer – 30
If you think and speak skeptically we usually get hammered for doing so (for being aggressive and what not) and if we got lucky we will be charge with LM so I guess that’s the reason why many Thais don’t “want” to think skeptically.
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
Today BKKPost got this on their front page
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/election/241094/pressure-mounts-on-yingluck
I have a feeling that they will try to shoot Yingluck down before the election even.
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
BP # 24
That seems to be the reason why the initial sentence for disqualified TRT politicians was a 5 years ban in 2007.
For they were forced out of the game not only at the following election a few months later (Dec. 2007), but for the next one 4 years later, too.
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
“A …… win? But then what?”
More power struggle and blood spilling of course. The result will change nothing. Enjoy the party, …… while it lasts
Yingluck on the streets
@ Tarrin
Just to let u know that I did reply to your comment, unfortunately it was removed for no reason. Seems like my Freedom of Speech here is quite limited. 🙂 I might add though red shirts in Thailand can make a comment 10 times stronger than mine and I see it is allowed to be heard on Thai political forums (even on a pro- Democrat site like Serithai.net). Feel free to check, if you don’t believe me. Some of you claim to read and write Thai very well, right.
Abhisit on the streets
[…] this post and this post over at New […]
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
CT: Why do some Thais (like you) see reality and think skeptically about the ways things are in Thailand, while so many do not, even after they’ve studied and lived outside Thailand for a while?
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
CT
It just goes to show you that this whole escapade is proof of who the real heros of the day are: Bradley E. Manning and Julian Assange.
If I were to meet Mr Manning, we probably would hate each others guts and politics. But who else is answering the call?
Obviously Mr Assange _allegedly_ has his personal issues, but does it not seem that those qualities make him more suited to lead the IMF or be be a U.S. Congressman? But who else is answering the call?
We need more Wikileaks, because “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” – Upton Sinclair
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
Kate,
We actively discourage any single voice from monopolising New Mandala, especially with repetitive interventions. Like in any good seminar, we moderate discussion to ensure that different voices and perspectives are heard.
We have been running New Mandala for almost five years and this is our longstanding practice.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
lol I think I deserve an explanation as to why my comment on this topic has been removed. Ain’t you guys been screaming that Thai people in Thailand should have more freedom of speech ? How about starting by giving a freedom of speech here in this site first, otherwise you have no ground to support what you’re trying to propose what we Thais should do in our country. 🙂
Yingluck on the streets
@ yuri 72
It is a police authority and responsibility to arrest whoever violated the law, unlike Thaksin who used his power to remove medias/commentators who criticized him when they didn’t even violate the law, hey since you mentioned it, I think Thaksin is more likely the one who could have learned this tactics from Burma, isn’t the guy a good friend of Burma dictator General Gen Khin Nyunt ?, They were “business” partner when Thaksin was still “in power”. lol
Anyway, your invisible backers or hands (or whatever) propaganda just works among you people. As far as I’m concern, Abhisit has “visible” backers, they are the majority of House of Representatives who voted for him on 15 December 2008, the voting process was broadcast live and I watched it from my own eyes, now that’s to me is “visible” . And please don’t throw that “illegitimate” thingy to me, I’m sure if Pracha got the majority vote that day, you wouldn’t say the same thing about him right, talkin about double stand haha.
Tourist among Rohingya vagabonds
“there but for the grace of god (luck, chance) go I”
underlying our comfortable lives is the knowledge of human strata, a few above, many below
in Australia we (apparently a majority of the population?) force the desperate arriving in rickety boats down to a lower level than those that are more like tourists, work through immigration bureaucracy and arrive by plane
is this because we prefer to live with people that were not desperate and know how to deal with government bureaucrats?
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
@Herve,
Thank you that you think my contribution is interesting, although I certainly think I do not deserve your praise. Many Thais have far more interesting things to say than me. But the reason you don’t get to read them is either because they are not proficient enough in English to really express what they really think here, or that they fear that they would be jailed for posting something online.
In fact, I am quite scared about it as well. I hope newmandala will not give out my IP to the Thai authorities…I still don’t wanna join Khun Da Torpedo…:p
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
@Norbert said:
“[Thailand]…is a dark cruel land ruled by dark cruel people clinging to an imagined past, when rulers ruled and the serfs and slaves obeyed, prostrating themselves, grovelling, presenting the backs of their necks for instant execution should their masters be displeased.”
The problem is many Thais don’t know this. They fell for the propaganda shown to them daily on TV, and they see the evil as god. Thus, they are ready to do anything to protect them. They see everything their ‘gods’ do as righteous, and they are ready to harm people who do not agree with them. What is happening in Thailand now is not so different from the Nazi era in Germany, unfortunately 🙁
@Concerned American
I am grateful that you try to do something about this. In fact I am very surprised why the Americans do not take much interest about this issue. I vividly remember years ago when the Aussies were enraged when Van Tuong Nguyen, a Vietnamese Australian, was sentenced to death in Singapore for drug smuggling. They came out and protested on the streets, despite the fact that what Mr Nguyen did was CLEARLY wrong. In this situation, however, what Mr Gordon has done is definitely not a wrong anywhere in any civilized country. And he was jailed because of it. I am surprised that the reaction in the US about this matter was not as strong…
…but to be fair, I must say that the Aussies did not really protest that heavily when Mr Nicolaides was jailed as well…
Abhisit on the streets
As you brought up Somtow, I have many if not all of his books, it came to me as a shock he was so “mind-violently” for the yellows as his blog demonstrates. Ok his books on afterthought were clearly elitist, that was nice as in fiction (like the subway under sukhumvit for the rich ones), but IRL… Was it on bkk post or nation where his hate-amsterdam editorial appeared ?
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
Nuomi, that was a very good post. And politicians are the same in every country that I know of, it is not just Thailand.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Mr. Gordon lived in the US State of Colorado.
I have contacted both of his US Senators.
They are Mark Udall and Micheal Bennett.
Email addresses follow:
http://bennet.senate.gov/contact/
http://markudall.senate.gov/?p=contact_us
Perhaps it is time for Thais to consider the way they are viewed by the rest of the world, not as a liberal western-style democracy, but as a democracy like that of the DPRK or Burma.
And there will be more friendly visits cancelled (think David Cameron) and Thai represenatives to international organizations will be treated glacially (think of Surakiart Sathirathai failed attempt to be UN Head).
And most diplomats will be here to urge Thailand to comply with international agreements, be they the The Convention on Cluster Munitions, or the Internationa Court of Justice, or the Convention for Refugees, or UN Convention against Corruption, or UN Convention against Corruption, or the one onHuman Rights, or the one on Stateless Persons…..etc.
And the thought in the back of each diplomats mind when greeting the Thai PM will be…. “will this look like the Dec 20, 1983 – Donald Rumsfeld shakeing hands with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein? Maybe I should grimice.”
A Pheua Thai win? But then what?
Roger said Perhaps we have all missed the point of why the election was called in the first place?
Consider when the banned executive of the old TRT become eligible to run for office again because their 5 years is nearly up?
Ban is not up until middle of next year and an election has to be held before then as the term is only for four years so this does not seem relevant to the timing of an early election..