Comparing the pictures of Thaksin and Abhisit that you have obviously deliberately selected to portray the two men, I detect absolutely blatant bias on your part – in favour of Abhisit of course! But then, we know this has been your hidden agenda all along…..
The selected Thaksin picture is an accurate reflection of how he looks today – largely unchanged from when he was PM. By contrast, the selected Abhisit picture shows a fairly youthful happy-go-lucky chap that nobody has seen for some time! What is this – the old Dorian Grey trick updated for the internet age?
Proof if proof were needed that “you lot” at NM are absurdly biased in favour of the present regime – pretty funny considering that you’re supposed to be so-called “academics”, I think! Pull the other one! Did you really think we wouldn’t notice this clumsy deception? Huh – think again!
chris baker #40 comment as a historian is frankly surprising in its given the now well documented facts about Sarit’s centre politics; increased palace budgets, royal guards, ritual events reinforcing the current monarch, securing the interests of the ancien regime (old aristocracy) & etc…in essence his intention and implications in reinstituting the sacral power of the monarchy. What happened later (e.g. 1976) was just reinforcing a chain of events that was already well established…
Here’s one farang who supports Yingluck all the way.
That Thaksin (who wasn’t perfect) had to be gotten rid of in an illegal military coup shows how far the Democrats would use illegal means to get what they wanted. They couldn’t get in legally and fairly so, hey, let’s work behind the scenes and get the elected PM kicked out. Then we can get our guy in office.
Since then, they’ve dragged Thailand down to a level far removed from where it would have been under Thaksin who, as I said, was not perfect but who DID have economic smarts and knew how to deal with international affairs and trade to Thailand’s advantage. Abhisit? Useless.
As a Brit, it’s embarrassing to me that a man this politically unintelligent and impotent (Abhisit) graduated from Oxford University. What an embarrassment for Oxford.
But Khun Dum has a point that should not be neglected. The correspondent refers to “a show of respect freely given?” Let’s get evidence of “respect freely given.” I doubt anyone denies that there are such demonstrations. The issue is that there are some (we cannot assess how many) who do not give this respect freely. School children have to be trained and disciplined to show what is said to be proper respect. In many of the venerable institutions this training is continued: bureaucracy, university, military, and so on. Those who refuse to show respect risk all kinds of sanction, including, it seems, accusations of lese majeste. So, perhaps, the real test of freedom is whether one can choose to show disrespect. If that is not possible – and it isn’t in contemporary Thailand – then respect is not freely given.
This interview with Chris Coles, which starts with this great description of the April 1 gallery opening, is well worth reading:
The Koi Gallery opening of Chris Coles’ latest exhibition, “Color of Night – Color of Day” (jointly with Anita Suputipong) was the most bizarre opening I’ve yet attended in Bangkok. Coles was simultaneously launching his new book, “Navigating the Bangkok Noir”. His paintings (Color of Night) are expressionist portrayals of the Thai bar scene, in a riot of garish primary colours, and no greater contrast could be found than with Miss Anita’s (Color of Day) delicate pastel portrayals of refined ladies with Ascot hats and cute animals. While Coles’ work compares favorably with such German Expressionists as Franz Marc or Emil Nolde, Miss Anita’s are more evocative of a Quality street chocolate tin from the 1960’s.
But when I arrived at the opening just before the scheduled 7pm start, it was clear who most of the audience was there to see – a bevy of eight or ten Khun Yings made me hope they’d reinforced the mezzanine, which looked like it could collapse under the weight of the combined hairdos. Local film crews took pictures of Hi-So notables presenting bouquets to the ravishing Miss Anita, while everyone turned their back on the ravaged noir nightlife of Chris Coles’ Bangkok.
But by 8pm, the Kuhn Yings and their entourage of bodyguards, limo drivers, camera crews, nephews, etc. had departed, and been replaced by a predominantly ex-pat crowd of notables there to see Coles’ work — like writer Christopher G. Moore, who wrote the intro to Coles’ book, and two of whose books carry Chris Coles paintings on the covers. A Soi Cowboy sort of crowd who appreciate Coles for portraying the nightlife as it appears to them, not as Diane Arbus circus freak portrayals of mainstream photojournalism.
So what really serious Red Shirt issues are being addressed by the Peau Thai Party in this election other than amnesty-for-Thaksin?
(a) Abolishment or revision of Thailand’s Lese Majeste laws?
Nah – – – not mentioned in the PTP election campaign.
(b) Justice to the victims of the Black May 2010 military crackdown of, through independent public inquiry into the deaths, injuries and property damages during April-May 2010, of the Reds violent protests? Nah – – not mentioned in the PTP election campaign
(c) Do the Red Shirts and Esarn see a real need of less intrusive administrative supervision from Bangkok; e.g. such political offices as provincial governors, mayors, even police chiefs should be by BY ELECTIONS and not appointment from Central goverment? Yes I believe so . . because the Red Shirts keep claiming ‘repression’ and ‘discrimination’ by Bangkok city folks. But Nah – – – not mentioned in the PTP election campaign.
All the PTP election campaigning could be said in two words: THAKSIN and AMNESTY usually mentioned in one exhalation every time.
Hate to say this but I actually agree with the PAD on the “vote no” however my reasoning was totally different from them. First, I don’t hate politicians, I believe that the reason politicians are bad is because our governing system is bad. Second, I’m not anti-democratic like the PAD (even if they got the word democratic there but really, they are not) but I do believe that saying no to the current system is a legit mean to protest.
No matter who is in the office now wouldn’t change the fact that the military can use their influence to do whatever they want. The monarchy still untouchable and beyond criticism. Thailand will not become more democratic if it still have election under dictatorship.
Excellent, clear and concise article. I agree to voting no is lazy. Politics always is the best of a bad lot. It’s hard, especially for the young to decide who will be worse. The young are tricked by idealistics promises while the old know well what they don’t want so vote yes to the lesser evil alternative. Politics is the expression of humans and not the divine.Politicians run for election so they are in shape if they are elected to run away from their promises. Vote yes by all means.
I disagree. Anyone can tick ‘no vote’ if they wish. I personally have done that in 2007, because I do not support Democray Party. Also, I did not vote for PPP due to the fact that I did not have a good impression of Samak. His acts during 6 October 1976 period where he incited people to kill the Thammasat University students was appalling, and I could not vote for someone like that. Thus I decided to abstain my vote.
What these yellow shirts people should learn, however, is that they have to accept the opinions of the majority. They can tick no vote if they wish, but if someone whom they don’t like get elected, they have no right to organise this barbaric street protest or airport closure to oust them…
….but they probably won’t even learn this, at least when this current King is still alive, I guess 🙂
I agree with you. The question should be whether one has a choice. I live in a Western country and I have, from time to time, a Christian knocking at my door, explaining about Christianity, trying to make me ‘believe’ in Christianity. But they would stop and politely leave when I tell him once or twice that I do not believe in Christianity. Do Thai authorities do the same thing with people who would not prostrate to the Royals, people who would not stand in cinema when royal anthem is played? Would the crazy and brainwashed royalists politely accept the opinion, if someone would suddenly say in public that they do not love the Monarchy?
What is happening in Thailand right now is complete madness resulting from massive brainwashing. It reminds me of Nazi era in Germany when people who support Hitler would do anything (no matter how crazy it is, such as slaughtering Jewish people) just because Hitler said it is good thing. Conversely, people who do not like him had to live in fear, because saying that you do not support the regime is a crime.
Fortunately, German people came back to their usual reasonable self after Hitler died. I personally cannot wait for something like that to happen in Thailand.
It seems very strange that someone would start a comment with something so plainly disrespectful (in fact, insulting) as “you lot” – and then finish it with a request for “respect”…..
One post (c16) used the word “abhorrent”. Even that is nowhere near “derision” – it’s just a negative opinion.
Are you inviting us to follow your example of being so impolite? It seems to me that everyone here is already doing significantly better than that.
Having hit NM’s version of Godwin’s Law in your first paragraph, this string is unofficially dead. We’re tired of the “You no thai; you no respect; you know not about thai ..blah blah” routine.
OK, time to role me eyes and notch up another one to Somchai and his trigger. (sigh)
However, in my death throws I will parry a final riposte. Given you consider your feet as we would consider our arses, the “show of respect freely given”, as you put it, is the equivalent of me shoving my junior colleague’s face in it. How can that possibly be respectful, in any man’s language?
That’s a few times I have received praise for my writing style. I think one said I was a master of innuendo. Having left the academic world at rather a young age I’m quite pleased. They are not all from you are they Steve?
If anyone wants to hire me just get in touch. (Robert Amsterdam can you hear me?)
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Comparing the pictures of Thaksin and Abhisit that you have obviously deliberately selected to portray the two men, I detect absolutely blatant bias on your part – in favour of Abhisit of course! But then, we know this has been your hidden agenda all along…..
The selected Thaksin picture is an accurate reflection of how he looks today – largely unchanged from when he was PM. By contrast, the selected Abhisit picture shows a fairly youthful happy-go-lucky chap that nobody has seen for some time! What is this – the old Dorian Grey trick updated for the internet age?
Proof if proof were needed that “you lot” at NM are absurdly biased in favour of the present regime – pretty funny considering that you’re supposed to be so-called “academics”, I think! Pull the other one! Did you really think we wouldn’t notice this clumsy deception? Huh – think again!
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
chris baker #40 comment as a historian is frankly surprising in its given the now well documented facts about Sarit’s centre politics; increased palace budgets, royal guards, ritual events reinforcing the current monarch, securing the interests of the ancien regime (old aristocracy) & etc…in essence his intention and implications in reinstituting the sacral power of the monarchy. What happened later (e.g. 1976) was just reinforcing a chain of events that was already well established…
HRW fires a few grenades
Only one point to respond to Les, the rest is in my posts on this.
It is in a footnote. … So let’s have a bit of honesty Ralph. Spit it out.
Disrespectful to the dead.
Agen DominoQQ Online Paling Populer
Here’s one farang who supports Yingluck all the way.
That Thaksin (who wasn’t perfect) had to be gotten rid of in an illegal military coup shows how far the Democrats would use illegal means to get what they wanted. They couldn’t get in legally and fairly so, hey, let’s work behind the scenes and get the elected PM kicked out. Then we can get our guy in office.
Since then, they’ve dragged Thailand down to a level far removed from where it would have been under Thaksin who, as I said, was not perfect but who DID have economic smarts and knew how to deal with international affairs and trade to Thailand’s advantage. Abhisit? Useless.
As a Brit, it’s embarrassing to me that a man this politically unintelligent and impotent (Abhisit) graduated from Oxford University. What an embarrassment for Oxford.
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
But Khun Dum has a point that should not be neglected. The correspondent refers to “a show of respect freely given?” Let’s get evidence of “respect freely given.” I doubt anyone denies that there are such demonstrations. The issue is that there are some (we cannot assess how many) who do not give this respect freely. School children have to be trained and disciplined to show what is said to be proper respect. In many of the venerable institutions this training is continued: bureaucracy, university, military, and so on. Those who refuse to show respect risk all kinds of sanction, including, it seems, accusations of lese majeste. So, perhaps, the real test of freedom is whether one can choose to show disrespect. If that is not possible – and it isn’t in contemporary Thailand – then respect is not freely given.
A beginners’ guide to Bangkok Noir
This interview with Chris Coles, which starts with this great description of the April 1 gallery opening, is well worth reading:
“Vote No” logic flawed
Here is another eloquent argument (in Thai) against the Vote No campaign: http://www.ryt9.com/s/nnd/1143018
“Vote No” logic flawed
So what really serious Red Shirt issues are being addressed by the Peau Thai Party in this election other than amnesty-for-Thaksin?
(a) Abolishment or revision of Thailand’s Lese Majeste laws?
Nah – – – not mentioned in the PTP election campaign.
(b) Justice to the victims of the Black May 2010 military crackdown of, through independent public inquiry into the deaths, injuries and property damages during April-May 2010, of the Reds violent protests? Nah – – not mentioned in the PTP election campaign
(c) Do the Red Shirts and Esarn see a real need of less intrusive administrative supervision from Bangkok; e.g. such political offices as provincial governors, mayors, even police chiefs should be by BY ELECTIONS and not appointment from Central goverment? Yes I believe so . . because the Red Shirts keep claiming ‘repression’ and ‘discrimination’ by Bangkok city folks. But Nah – – – not mentioned in the PTP election campaign.
All the PTP election campaigning could be said in two words: THAKSIN and AMNESTY usually mentioned in one exhalation every time.
“Vote No” logic flawed
Hate to say this but I actually agree with the PAD on the “vote no” however my reasoning was totally different from them. First, I don’t hate politicians, I believe that the reason politicians are bad is because our governing system is bad. Second, I’m not anti-democratic like the PAD (even if they got the word democratic there but really, they are not) but I do believe that saying no to the current system is a legit mean to protest.
No matter who is in the office now wouldn’t change the fact that the military can use their influence to do whatever they want. The monarchy still untouchable and beyond criticism. Thailand will not become more democratic if it still have election under dictatorship.
“Vote No” logic flawed
Vichai N ,
Is your real Name Stan G ?
“Vote No” logic flawed
Excellent, clear and concise article. I agree to voting no is lazy. Politics always is the best of a bad lot. It’s hard, especially for the young to decide who will be worse. The young are tricked by idealistics promises while the old know well what they don’t want so vote yes to the lesser evil alternative. Politics is the expression of humans and not the divine.Politicians run for election so they are in shape if they are elected to run away from their promises. Vote yes by all means.
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
As a Thai, I am shocked to read Soonuk Dum’s comment.
“Vote No” logic flawed
The key question is whether voting No benefits PT more or the Democrats more.
Yellows would rather kill themselves than vote for PT – many current or former yellow friends of mine vote Democrat.
If a portion of them voted No, this would hurt the Drmocrats… and benefit PT. For once, I wish the yellows the best.
Idiots. But then again, these are the same people who have hurt the palace by dragging it into politics.
HRW fires a few grenades
c22
“That’s a few times I have received praise for my writing style. I think one said I was a master of innuendo.”
I’ll add “vivid imagination” if you think either is praise in this context.
“Vote No” logic flawed
This coming election is actually a simple YES or NO vote.
Yes or No to Thaksin, that is.
“Vote No” logic flawed
Aintnoelection,
I disagree. Anyone can tick ‘no vote’ if they wish. I personally have done that in 2007, because I do not support Democray Party. Also, I did not vote for PPP due to the fact that I did not have a good impression of Samak. His acts during 6 October 1976 period where he incited people to kill the Thammasat University students was appalling, and I could not vote for someone like that. Thus I decided to abstain my vote.
What these yellow shirts people should learn, however, is that they have to accept the opinions of the majority. They can tick no vote if they wish, but if someone whom they don’t like get elected, they have no right to organise this barbaric street protest or airport closure to oust them…
….but they probably won’t even learn this, at least when this current King is still alive, I guess 🙂
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
Aintnoelection #46,
I agree with you. The question should be whether one has a choice. I live in a Western country and I have, from time to time, a Christian knocking at my door, explaining about Christianity, trying to make me ‘believe’ in Christianity. But they would stop and politely leave when I tell him once or twice that I do not believe in Christianity. Do Thai authorities do the same thing with people who would not prostrate to the Royals, people who would not stand in cinema when royal anthem is played? Would the crazy and brainwashed royalists politely accept the opinion, if someone would suddenly say in public that they do not love the Monarchy?
What is happening in Thailand right now is complete madness resulting from massive brainwashing. It reminds me of Nazi era in Germany when people who support Hitler would do anything (no matter how crazy it is, such as slaughtering Jewish people) just because Hitler said it is good thing. Conversely, people who do not like him had to live in fear, because saying that you do not support the regime is a crime.
Fortunately, German people came back to their usual reasonable self after Hitler died. I personally cannot wait for something like that to happen in Thailand.
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
c45
It seems very strange that someone would start a comment with something so plainly disrespectful (in fact, insulting) as “you lot” – and then finish it with a request for “respect”…..
One post (c16) used the word “abhorrent”. Even that is nowhere near “derision” – it’s just a negative opinion.
Are you inviting us to follow your example of being so impolite? It seems to me that everyone here is already doing significantly better than that.
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
Soonuk Dum
Having hit NM’s version of Godwin’s Law in your first paragraph, this string is unofficially dead. We’re tired of the “You no thai; you no respect; you know not about thai ..blah blah” routine.
OK, time to role me eyes and notch up another one to Somchai and his trigger. (sigh)
However, in my death throws I will parry a final riposte. Given you consider your feet as we would consider our arses, the “show of respect freely given”, as you put it, is the equivalent of me shoving my junior colleague’s face in it. How can that possibly be respectful, in any man’s language?
HRW fires a few grenades
SteveCM – 15
LesAbbey’s views (and slick style)…
That’s a few times I have received praise for my writing style. I think one said I was a master of innuendo. Having left the academic world at rather a young age I’m quite pleased. They are not all from you are they Steve?
If anyone wants to hire me just get in touch. (Robert Amsterdam can you hear me?)