Mr Amsterdam is a paid employee of a mass human rights abuser. That alone makes it difficult for AI or any human rights group to give him a platform.
AI must maintain a watch and comment on all human rights abuses in Thailand. This is their job. There have been many by governments of all persuasions as well as both red and yellow groups and others. Right now both in Thailand and among those who comment on it, there is a tendency to talk about some rights abuses while conveniently not mentioning others. This always appears to be based on a poltical agenda. While that is fine for those campaigning, an organization such as AI or HRW (which is readily attacked as biased in parts of the Arab community) must maintain neutrality in political terms and raise all human rights abuses regardless of who by or why. There are no excuses for denying human rights by anyone. They are correct to not get dragged into providing platforms for those willing to take the shilling from human rights abusers. You either believe in human rights or you dont, and in this respect Mr. Amsterdam is compromised. If Mr. Amsterdam were not linked in such an obvious way then AI should not deny him a platform. Mr. Amsterdam as a concerned human being did not have to accept employment to provide PR (propaganda in real terms), but could have said no and held a position where his criticisms carried more weight
: . . . and the right of people to information in non-violent resistance.” Underscore non-violent resistance.
And yet former Red Shirt (UDD) Chairman was recently quoted in the Bangkok Post Apr25th article ‘Veerakarn warns UDD must remain on the side of Peace’: ” . . .Mr Veerakarn has expressed his concern about the organisation’s inability to free itself from the Puea Thai Party and the anti-monarchists, to keep away from the influence of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and rid itself of its image as a group sowing hate . . .” Uncerscore ‘group sowing hate’.
What a load of codswallop. AI could never remain impartial in such a polarised dynamic as is found in Thailand while associating itself with the government, Amsterdam, or the civil service. It is either for the adoption of human rights in these sorts of situations, or it is not.
His position is becoming, if not has become, untenable.
With Zawacki coddling up to government officials, those in Thai governance are even more able to propagate the image that they are pro human rights, and that they are even doing something about “various” (as Zawacki says) human rights “events”.
At least the Thai Ambassador to Australia, who has a background in human rights law, found it more appropriate to discuss with us international piracy and the laws of the sea shamelessly! Zawacki may as well be doing the same.
Maybe there are a few in Thai governance that are human rights actors, but they’re never going to instigate change at mid level management. Zawacki has coddled Thai government officials, and consequently he has ignorantly been led on by the potential for change.
What change has he really seen? Everyone else has seen a turn for the worse.
Mom Srirasmi would be a perfect representative of Thailand for this wedding, coming from a commoner background herself, she could be picked up by the British Press for a comparison with Kate Middleton. This would be a good opportunity for the World to get to know more about Thailand’s future queen. ..
The series is titled “Burma votes 2010”. Naturally enough the interviews in that series are all about Burmese politics. I asked Benjamin Zawacki about the Thailand comparison because, of course, there is much curiosity about such matters. But that interview was not the place for an in-depth discussion of Thai politics. For such discussions this series from earlier in 2010 is far more relevant.
Here at the ANU we are planning a number of new vodcast and podcast projects for later in 2011, including some that will focus on Thailand. I may get another chance to interview Benjamin then. In such an interview I expect we would want to discuss the evolution of lese majeste, among a range of other issues central to Amnesty International’s work in Thailand.
Your assumption truly is pathetic at best galling at the worst, of only using the persecuted ones represent all is again, proof of your eternal fixation against anything Than Shwe’s but also reflect clearly on your empty stance on behalf of the citizenry welfare.
Myanmar Lu Myo ( Citizenry) is the sum of ALL ethnic minorities.
Myanmar Lu Myo is suffering from it own government iniquities as well as the iniquities of the west useless careless policies.
Does residing in Australia give you the right that the West has unduly, taken for granted policies without the consent of Myanmar Citizenry?
1)Choosing to use only examples that are absolutely against Than Shwe and his cohorts to justify the absolutely useless careless policy that hurt EVERYONE and ESPECIALLY the most vulnerable one more, within Myanmar?
2)Constantly white washing the more devastating effect of their policy on all Myanmar Lu Myo especially the most vulnerable one?.
Ah proof! Unlike your nonsensical name calling:
Daw Anng San Suu Kyi as recently again against all conventional wisdom stating sanctions have absolute no baring on the suffering of the Lu Myo.
Plenty more out there especially so here, on the walls of New Mandala.
Lies, fraudulent statements, statistics and quotes that all detract from the true suffering of Myanmar citizenry.
Your claim of caring for the citizenry as an example.
Any Citizenry plight and welfare depend consistently on the Education and Health Care it can have.
Can you show me @ New Mandala, The Irrawaddy or any where you and your ilk advocacy come any close to that needed welfare of Myanmar Lu Myo?
Better yet show us here all at New Mandala how does the welfare of Myanmar Citizenry improved in anyway from any of your advocacy?
I await your answer.
Fair is fair
I and my ilks as well as all who care for Myanmar Citizenry must subject ourselves to the same simple relevant standard used.
Myanmar Citizenry deserve better than the present existing quagmire.
It’s good that AI would not “would not totally rule out the possibility of international accountability for various events in Thailand”.
Why does Ben Zawacki live in Bangkok, and not Kuala Lumpur? From Kuala Lumpur he could offer unbiased substantiative commentary on Lese Majeste and ‘accountability’ that stems from the Thai state… if he were not rolling in its pig trough lapping up the luxury the Thais afford him. KL is not that much more expensive than Bangkok!
Zawacki, I am sure, is helping to gather information and data from the South that nobody else can, and which couldn’t possibly be delivered to him in Kuala Lumpur.
Shame on AI.
AI’s pathetic position in Bangkok makes AI look particularly partisan to a regime in Thailand that abuses its authority to the Nth degree. And all for what?
Zawacki, please forgive me for seeing this move to distance yourself and AI from Robert Amsterdam slightly hypocritical.
Could it be that what you sent to NM was of poor quality? That what you sent was not original, did not contribute anything to discussion – and was perhaps, just a bit too seriously derranged to be taken seriously? Maybe if you posted what you wrote as a comment, others could derive humor from it… as usual.
With regards to Suwicha – it remains that he was needlessly charged, and so why shouldn’t his picture continue to be posted? This site is not a ‘news’ site, per se, it is a blog about mainland Southeast Asia. History, anthropology, politics, and yes – some discussion of recent events. It is not the Bangkok Post, or any other similar site claiming to be a news organisation.
You have now started complaining about your own treatment in a post about the situation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul. This is not about you. Grow up.
The fact is New Mandala does not believe in free speach either. It refuses to publish what I have sent them praising His Majesty The King for leniency and forgiveness in LM cases. New Mandala continues to post the Suwicha picture – when it is now MONTHS since Suwicha was pardoned.
Shame on you Andrew Walker and Nicholas Farrelly – do not expect the wider Thai or Lao pu noi to hve any widespread sympathy with your elitist campaigns at all. They won’t be fooled by elitist, careerists such as yourselves. You’ve self-isolated.
In response to earlier comments, it is important to note that Mahayana interpretations of Prat─лtyasamutp─Бda are more often based upon Mahayana sutras, which are held to supercede the earlier sutras in instances where they appear to contradict them.
The purge has been going on for at least 5 years it just isn’t reported in any media much.
There are presently no licensed community stations in Thailand. At the end of the 300 day temporary license period, a year ago, no licenses were issued and a moratorium was placed on new license applications.
Two years ago all community stations were given temporary 300 day licenses with the stipulation that they would only be upgraded after the 300 days if their programming was “Appropriate”. To this day, two years later, there have never been an issuance of anything that could be construed as rules to follow to have “Appropriate” content.
As such a lot of community stations have opted to self censor or remove programing altogether that could be taken as inappropriate even without any guidelines in place. This in itself is pressure and intimidation something that Community stations have had to put up with since 2006 and the giant radio purge by the Junta.
ASSOCIATED PRESS:”The raids come at a time of political tension, as there are fears the country’s powerful military disagrees with the prime minister’s plans to hold an election by early July.”
Thida – Nattawut and Jatuporn speaking AT FCCT (Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand) tonight – 26 April 2011. Nattawut says “security agencies'” surveys show Puea Thai will get 250 seats (in next election).
Recap: Final results of the 2007 election: The PPP won 233 seats – the Democrat Party 165 seats and Chart Thai 37 seats.
If Nattuwat’s information is correct that is a seventeen seat increase on the last election four years ago. If an election does indeed get to take place – will the electoral chicanery and shenanigans benefitting the Democrats and chosen minor parties over Pheu Thai be enough to secure another Democrat led coalition government?
I very much doubt it. It looks like the military are now desperately looking for a convenient ‘get out clause’ to annul the electoral process – no matter what the Prime Minister is saying to the contrary.
Anything will do such is their apparent desperation. A war – a coup or even an interim emergency government formed on the back of the aforementioned.
Sounds rather false somehow, don’t you think? You seem to be going round and round in circles like a headless chicken. Don’t recall labelling Than Shwe a monster or getting personal either. Not by me in any case.
The welfare of the citizenry is what everyone is concerned and are talking about if you haven’t noticed. Don’t think you have a monopoly on having ‘the national interest at heart’ like your generals do. Easy to spout platitudes and pay lip service to the greater good.
There seems no place in your scheme of things to address the issues important for the minorities or the protracted civil war. Nor do you appear to have any faith in the popular struggle and the strength within the country. You appear to see it only in terms of a contest between the West and the rest aiding and abetting the military regime which you deem a hapless victim of circumstance with no responsibility or agency in cause and effect of the state we are in.
Only a strong, healthy and educated citizenry can change the present tragic dynamics that favor the monster.They don’t care about health and education of the citizenry and would only spend a ludicrous and paltry sum on them. And you look forlornly at the INGOs and the West to deal with it despite the regime. And their priorities you think include health and education of the Burmese people in equal measure as markets and profits. Strange world you live in.
I do not think ‘not having any relative overseas’ is a hindrance if he agrees to take refuge outside the country.
There are many options for a place to live as I can see. However a more worrying issue is perhaps the family and his job, both his permanent incumbent at TU and the new one he must secure for a living in the target country.
But if his ‘evacuation’ does eventually happen, I agree that Australia is the best choice for him.
just watched this interview in light of Amnesty’s ongoing refusal to perform its role in standing up for those, like Somsak, threatened or charged with lese majeste laws in obvious contravention of basic principles of freedom of speech. Why, given that the interviewer strayed into Thailand discussion, were obvious questions not asked re Amnesty’s stance on lese majeste and on whether there is any special arrangement in place between AI and Thai officials such that they will be permitted to stay in-country on the bases of lese majeste silence? Its all well and good to thank Benjamin for his time but lets be frank – AI could be doing a whole lot more to protect those expressing (and being repressed for doing so) basic human rights in Thailand, and this was an opportunity missed to keep them accountabe to this task…
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Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Mr Amsterdam is a paid employee of a mass human rights abuser. That alone makes it difficult for AI or any human rights group to give him a platform.
AI must maintain a watch and comment on all human rights abuses in Thailand. This is their job. There have been many by governments of all persuasions as well as both red and yellow groups and others. Right now both in Thailand and among those who comment on it, there is a tendency to talk about some rights abuses while conveniently not mentioning others. This always appears to be based on a poltical agenda. While that is fine for those campaigning, an organization such as AI or HRW (which is readily attacked as biased in parts of the Arab community) must maintain neutrality in political terms and raise all human rights abuses regardless of who by or why. There are no excuses for denying human rights by anyone. They are correct to not get dragged into providing platforms for those willing to take the shilling from human rights abusers. You either believe in human rights or you dont, and in this respect Mr. Amsterdam is compromised. If Mr. Amsterdam were not linked in such an obvious way then AI should not deny him a platform. Mr. Amsterdam as a concerned human being did not have to accept employment to provide PR (propaganda in real terms), but could have said no and held a position where his criticisms carried more weight
Crackdown on red media
: . . . and the right of people to information in non-violent resistance.” Underscore non-violent resistance.
And yet former Red Shirt (UDD) Chairman was recently quoted in the Bangkok Post Apr25th article ‘Veerakarn warns UDD must remain on the side of Peace’: ” . . .Mr Veerakarn has expressed his concern about the organisation’s inability to free itself from the Puea Thai Party and the anti-monarchists, to keep away from the influence of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and rid itself of its image as a group sowing hate . . .” Uncerscore ‘group sowing hate’.
What says you Nostitz?
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Perhaps AI can get off their knees and define free speech.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
LesAbbey,
What a load of codswallop. AI could never remain impartial in such a polarised dynamic as is found in Thailand while associating itself with the government, Amsterdam, or the civil service. It is either for the adoption of human rights in these sorts of situations, or it is not.
Les, impartial? See here:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/53235/amnesty-international-in-thailand-colluding-with-the-state-and-now-acting-like-a-state/
His position is becoming, if not has become, untenable.
With Zawacki coddling up to government officials, those in Thai governance are even more able to propagate the image that they are pro human rights, and that they are even doing something about “various” (as Zawacki says) human rights “events”.
At least the Thai Ambassador to Australia, who has a background in human rights law, found it more appropriate to discuss with us international piracy and the laws of the sea shamelessly! Zawacki may as well be doing the same.
Maybe there are a few in Thai governance that are human rights actors, but they’re never going to instigate change at mid level management. Zawacki has coddled Thai government officials, and consequently he has ignorantly been led on by the potential for change.
What change has he really seen? Everyone else has seen a turn for the worse.
Right royal histories
Mom Srirasmi would be a perfect representative of Thailand for this wedding, coming from a commoner background herself, she could be picked up by the British Press for a comparison with Kate Middleton. This would be a good opportunity for the World to get to know more about Thailand’s future queen. ..
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
AI only has long lost its root stated here:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/who-we-are.
From the above response it clear that only when incidences are politically, safe, correct or most of all PROFITABLE.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Maybe AI is trying not to be used for propaganda purposes, in which case this would be a sensible statement.
Burma votes 2010 – Episode 4
Thanks billyd,
The series is titled “Burma votes 2010”. Naturally enough the interviews in that series are all about Burmese politics. I asked Benjamin Zawacki about the Thailand comparison because, of course, there is much curiosity about such matters. But that interview was not the place for an in-depth discussion of Thai politics. For such discussions this series from earlier in 2010 is far more relevant.
Here at the ANU we are planning a number of new vodcast and podcast projects for later in 2011, including some that will focus on Thailand. I may get another chance to interview Benjamin then. In such an interview I expect we would want to discuss the evolution of lese majeste, among a range of other issues central to Amnesty International’s work in Thailand.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
New war in Kachin State?
Ko Moe Aung
Your assumption truly is pathetic at best galling at the worst, of only using the persecuted ones represent all is again, proof of your eternal fixation against anything Than Shwe’s but also reflect clearly on your empty stance on behalf of the citizenry welfare.
Myanmar Lu Myo ( Citizenry) is the sum of ALL ethnic minorities.
Myanmar Lu Myo is suffering from it own government iniquities as well as the iniquities of the west useless careless policies.
Does residing in Australia give you the right that the West has unduly, taken for granted policies without the consent of Myanmar Citizenry?
1)Choosing to use only examples that are absolutely against Than Shwe and his cohorts to justify the absolutely useless careless policy that hurt EVERYONE and ESPECIALLY the most vulnerable one more, within Myanmar?
2)Constantly white washing the more devastating effect of their policy on all Myanmar Lu Myo especially the most vulnerable one?.
Ah proof! Unlike your nonsensical name calling:
Daw Anng San Suu Kyi as recently again against all conventional wisdom stating sanctions have absolute no baring on the suffering of the Lu Myo.
Plenty more out there especially so here, on the walls of New Mandala.
Lies, fraudulent statements, statistics and quotes that all detract from the true suffering of Myanmar citizenry.
Your claim of caring for the citizenry as an example.
Any Citizenry plight and welfare depend consistently on the Education and Health Care it can have.
Can you show me @ New Mandala, The Irrawaddy or any where you and your ilk advocacy come any close to that needed welfare of Myanmar Lu Myo?
Better yet show us here all at New Mandala how does the welfare of Myanmar Citizenry improved in anyway from any of your advocacy?
I await your answer.
Fair is fair
I and my ilks as well as all who care for Myanmar Citizenry must subject ourselves to the same simple relevant standard used.
Myanmar Citizenry deserve better than the present existing quagmire.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
It’s good that AI would not “would not totally rule out the possibility of international accountability for various events in Thailand”.
Why does Ben Zawacki live in Bangkok, and not Kuala Lumpur? From Kuala Lumpur he could offer unbiased substantiative commentary on Lese Majeste and ‘accountability’ that stems from the Thai state… if he were not rolling in its pig trough lapping up the luxury the Thais afford him. KL is not that much more expensive than Bangkok!
Zawacki, I am sure, is helping to gather information and data from the South that nobody else can, and which couldn’t possibly be delivered to him in Kuala Lumpur.
Shame on AI.
AI’s pathetic position in Bangkok makes AI look particularly partisan to a regime in Thailand that abuses its authority to the Nth degree. And all for what?
Zawacki, please forgive me for seeing this move to distance yourself and AI from Robert Amsterdam slightly hypocritical.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
Chris Beale,
Could it be that what you sent to NM was of poor quality? That what you sent was not original, did not contribute anything to discussion – and was perhaps, just a bit too seriously derranged to be taken seriously? Maybe if you posted what you wrote as a comment, others could derive humor from it… as usual.
With regards to Suwicha – it remains that he was needlessly charged, and so why shouldn’t his picture continue to be posted? This site is not a ‘news’ site, per se, it is a blog about mainland Southeast Asia. History, anthropology, politics, and yes – some discussion of recent events. It is not the Bangkok Post, or any other similar site claiming to be a news organisation.
You have now started complaining about your own treatment in a post about the situation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul. This is not about you. Grow up.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
“leniency and forgiveness in LM cases”
You have got to be kidding!
(a prerequisite of grovelling does NOT constitute forgiveness)
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
The fact is New Mandala does not believe in free speach either. It refuses to publish what I have sent them praising His Majesty The King for leniency and forgiveness in LM cases. New Mandala continues to post the Suwicha picture – when it is now MONTHS since Suwicha was pardoned.
Shame on you Andrew Walker and Nicholas Farrelly – do not expect the wider Thai or Lao pu noi to hve any widespread sympathy with your elitist campaigns at all. They won’t be fooled by elitist, careerists such as yourselves. You’ve self-isolated.
Unpopular facts about one of Buddhist philosophy’s most popular doctrines
In response to earlier comments, it is important to note that Mahayana interpretations of Prat─лtyasamutp─Бda are more often based upon Mahayana sutras, which are held to supercede the earlier sutras in instances where they appear to contradict them.
Crackdown on red media
The purge has been going on for at least 5 years it just isn’t reported in any media much.
There are presently no licensed community stations in Thailand. At the end of the 300 day temporary license period, a year ago, no licenses were issued and a moratorium was placed on new license applications.
Two years ago all community stations were given temporary 300 day licenses with the stipulation that they would only be upgraded after the 300 days if their programming was “Appropriate”. To this day, two years later, there have never been an issuance of anything that could be construed as rules to follow to have “Appropriate” content.
As such a lot of community stations have opted to self censor or remove programing altogether that could be taken as inappropriate even without any guidelines in place. This in itself is pressure and intimidation something that Community stations have had to put up with since 2006 and the giant radio purge by the Junta.
Crackdown on red media
ASSOCIATED PRESS:”The raids come at a time of political tension, as there are fears the country’s powerful military disagrees with the prime minister’s plans to hold an election by early July.”
Thida – Nattawut and Jatuporn speaking AT FCCT (Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand) tonight – 26 April 2011. Nattawut says “security agencies'” surveys show Puea Thai will get 250 seats (in next election).
Recap: Final results of the 2007 election: The PPP won 233 seats – the Democrat Party 165 seats and Chart Thai 37 seats.
If Nattuwat’s information is correct that is a seventeen seat increase on the last election four years ago. If an election does indeed get to take place – will the electoral chicanery and shenanigans benefitting the Democrats and chosen minor parties over Pheu Thai be enough to secure another Democrat led coalition government?
I very much doubt it. It looks like the military are now desperately looking for a convenient ‘get out clause’ to annul the electoral process – no matter what the Prime Minister is saying to the contrary.
Anything will do such is their apparent desperation. A war – a coup or even an interim emergency government formed on the back of the aforementioned.
Crackdown on red media
Internet Stream of The “Red Channel” Asia Update TV seems to be off air, too
http://www.asiaupdate.tv/live-2
New war in Kachin State?
Ko plan B,
Sounds rather false somehow, don’t you think? You seem to be going round and round in circles like a headless chicken. Don’t recall labelling Than Shwe a monster or getting personal either. Not by me in any case.
The welfare of the citizenry is what everyone is concerned and are talking about if you haven’t noticed. Don’t think you have a monopoly on having ‘the national interest at heart’ like your generals do. Easy to spout platitudes and pay lip service to the greater good.
There seems no place in your scheme of things to address the issues important for the minorities or the protracted civil war. Nor do you appear to have any faith in the popular struggle and the strength within the country. You appear to see it only in terms of a contest between the West and the rest aiding and abetting the military regime which you deem a hapless victim of circumstance with no responsibility or agency in cause and effect of the state we are in.
Only a strong, healthy and educated citizenry can change the present tragic dynamics that favor the monster.They don’t care about health and education of the citizenry and would only spend a ludicrous and paltry sum on them. And you look forlornly at the INGOs and the West to deal with it despite the regime. And their priorities you think include health and education of the Burmese people in equal measure as markets and profits. Strange world you live in.
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
Anonymous as usual #6
I do not think ‘not having any relative overseas’ is a hindrance if he agrees to take refuge outside the country.
There are many options for a place to live as I can see. However a more worrying issue is perhaps the family and his job, both his permanent incumbent at TU and the new one he must secure for a living in the target country.
But if his ‘evacuation’ does eventually happen, I agree that Australia is the best choice for him.
Burma votes 2010 – Episode 4
just watched this interview in light of Amnesty’s ongoing refusal to perform its role in standing up for those, like Somsak, threatened or charged with lese majeste laws in obvious contravention of basic principles of freedom of speech. Why, given that the interviewer strayed into Thailand discussion, were obvious questions not asked re Amnesty’s stance on lese majeste and on whether there is any special arrangement in place between AI and Thai officials such that they will be permitted to stay in-country on the bases of lese majeste silence? Its all well and good to thank Benjamin for his time but lets be frank – AI could be doing a whole lot more to protect those expressing (and being repressed for doing so) basic human rights in Thailand, and this was an opportunity missed to keep them accountabe to this task…