Of course you wouldn’t be able to answer any of those questions because you have no clue about the actual role of these peoples…
Such arrogance. Are you a teacher at Chula or Thammasat perhaps?
Strange thing is being a farang and living here for so many years did at one time allow you fairly free access to all social groups in Thailand. In many ways you were outside the Thai class system. Maybe your accusations of ignorance are misplaced. For some of us two decades isn’t that far back.
Apart from removing Suchinda from power (which you thought that was a great result)…
So you feel there was no gain in removing Suchinda? Really just changing one dictator for another?
I think what you were trying to do was shock us with the news that Chamlong and Young Turks didn’t have the most pleasant history. When you failed to achieve that effect you have then tried to give it a pseudo academic cover. Maybe time to go back to impressing your students.
Certain commodities are “controlled items”, generally rice would be one of them. When I refer to price determination by “middle men”, I am refering to non “controlled items” These forms the bulk of income for the rural folks. Big rice fields are controlled by land lords from Bangkok (in the case of Thailand) You may want to spend a few days in the rural district and hang around the “collectors” shops or warehouse to see for yourself this price fixing mechanism.
(footnote – I am currently involve in a program to introduce Stevia (sweetener alternative) farming to local farmers in Chiangmai / Chiangrai. Price fixed at US$1000/ton of dry leaves. Having some issues with local middlemen, as we are bypassing them)
Don’t know if Najib can be trusted, but one thing is for sure – he owes too much to Mahathir! As for Mahathir, his ultimate goal is to see his son Mukriz as Prime Minister, before he dies. The day for him to meet his maker is getting close, very close and he knows it. One can tell from the evermore desparate measures Mahathir is taking.
An access to such information has been temporarily ceased
due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)
under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).
“The suggestion that Ausanee was lucky to be born into a rich
family only produces giggles.
“It was anything but lucky when she was trying to get a job, she
points out, and before that she struggled to find a topic for
her doctoral dissertation. She wanted to write about the steel
business, but was advised to find another subject because her
family’s involved in steel too….”
If I were the kind of person who wondered whether Chiranuch had engineered her own arrest, I might also think the writer is a Red Shirt mole trying to stir up class hatred.
I think they’re both true stories about… well actual, if not real… people. The tone of the second is a little more smarmy and self-satisfied than the first so I’d say it was Not, and the first was The Nation.
Thanks mainly to China and for lesser extent to India, the whole world is now in one of the longest commodity boom and Andrew’s chart shows it.
The effects of massive price increases in Thai rice and Australian Wheat could be felt even here in Sydney. But because of China (the factory of the world) the prices of manufacturing goods are seriously depressed.
Thai Jasmin rice is now retailing close to 3 dollars a kilo. In the 1990s it was just over $1.50 a kilo, if I still correctly remember. While the prices of cars etc and the electronic goods are now half of what they were in the year 2000.
Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) has been threatening to raise Australian interest rate to stem the rampant inflation because of that shocking increase in the PPI of basic commodities like foodstuff.
1. How did I construct the ratio? The PPI figures (crops and manufacturing) are from the Bank of Thailand Monthly Economic Reports. The Bank keeps changing the base year, so the data was adjusted to a single base year (in this case 1981).
2. Why stop in 1981? Because I haven’t been able to find PPI for manufacturing before then. I have found PPI for all goods (crops, manufacturing etc) going back further. Using this data (cropPPI/all goodsPPI) I have produced this graph, which goes back to 1960. I think it is a reasonable proxy, because the pattern since 1980 is very similiar to the other graph (PPICrops/PPIManufacturing). As you can see, the ratio peaked in the early 1970s and then declined to about 1980.
3. Yes, it could be done for individual crops, if you had the price series.
4. I take your point about the lack of a coherent master policy for agriculture. But I still think it is worth trying to get a big picture. And I think the big picture is clear – 40 years or so of very significant increase in infrastructure, price support, credit, other forms of subsidy, community development, rural health and education, decentralisation etc.
Your presumptuous conclusion distorted the point I was trying to make. It is not about disliking Chamlong or Thaksin. You missed the whole point by personalizing the issue. The reason why I asked you to look deeply into the role of people like Chamlong or Prasong Sunsiri is because I want you to think more critically why a person who once supported the so-called “pro-democracy” movement in 1992 turned out to endorse the coup in 2006? Do we really understand their role? Have they really changed their political stance? or Did we misunderstand their political motives in the first place?
Of course you wouldn’t be able to answer any of those questions because you have no clue about the actual role of these peoples, how they link to the conservative elite in Thailand, and what it means for the democratization process in Thailand, especially in the past two decades. At the heart of the matter, their political move is a reflection of the underlying power relations within the Thai society. That is why the real change has never really happened in the interest of the people. As Pasuk and Chris Baker argued in the recent article, “the modern Thai political system is best viewed as an oligarchy which has never been radically threatened from below.”
Last but not least, how can you even claim that what happened in 1992 has a long-term impact on the democratization process in Thailand when we just had another coup in 2006!? Apart from removing Suchinda from power (which you thought that was a great result), you said it yourself that you were not even sure. Let me share my final thought: removing one dictator does not mean a thing if you don’t address the fundamental power structure in Thailand.
Just one personal item for Dr. Thaksin. Now that the court has declared void the sale of Rachada land to Khun Ying Pojaman, shouldn’t Dr. Thaksin’s part in his former wife’s transaction be annulled also? It would be decent to see justice being done to someone innocent.
Seeing how better off the citizen of Middle East compare to Thailand we can see so much different between their respective governing philosophy as well.
LesAbbey – 27
I think both you and Tarrin are allowing your dislike of Chamlong to cloud your intelligence regarding 1992.
I never actually “hate” Chamlong, mind you, because I know who he is working for so Chamlong is never in the picture for me, FYI my family voted for him when he was running for Bangkok governor. If its not Chamlong then it could be someone else and nothing is change. My hate is within the corrupted and injustice patronage system.
chris beale – 28
In my opinion, you are partially right that the 1992 is actually a benefit to the middle class, but the establishment has more to gain as they were able to put the military under their control. Before 1992 the establishment and the military could almost be seen as a 2 power sec with in the elite. However, after 1992 the establishment emerge as the winner, that’s why we see people like Anupong or Prayuth who were more than willing to follow the establishment order while we lost general like Krit Srivara in the process. All the establishment did was sharing the power (or given power to depend on from what angle you look at) with the newly emerging middle class and made them another power sec within the elite, namely Thaksin and CP group.
My conclusion to your point is that majority of the the middle class still has little say in the Thai politic and that the true power holder is the establishment.
Noted that many people from my family also join the protest of 1992 so we were, in a way, at the frontline.
Yes Anonymous Thai, it is a rough projection. If anyone can provide accurate data I would be very happy.
The most recent GDP figure I can find (Bank of Thailand) is 9.05 trillion baht (2009). 170 billion is 1.88 percent of that. Taking a guesstimate of 10 trillion for more recent GDP, then the percentage would be 1.7. So, I think the extrapolation is pointing in the right direction, though based on these figures the slope is too steep. I will add a note to clarify. AW
[…] September 2010 by Clare A review by Thosaeng Chaochuti which appears on the New Mandala blog draws attention to a chapter on the uptake of Foucault in […]
And Why stop in 1981? The curve in the 1970s should show important fluctuations due to agri price boom and busts, no?
Could the same graph be done with each important crop. I’d be curious to compare, say, low-value vs high value crops (rice vs asparagus?), or politically sensitive crops (rice and sugar) vs others where producers are not politically powerful, but agritransformers are (maize, soya).
A major problem with proving your point (increase govt support) is that Thailand’s doesn’t have a coherent agricultural policy (there’s no master plan and no sign of anyone ever wanting one since the early 5-year development plans). Rather, it has dozens and dozens of laws, decrees and ad hoc cabinet and ministry resolutions forming a fuzzy and partially incoherent set of formal policies. These are partially contradicted on the ground by informal (covert) practices and policies. As such, Thailand’s de facto (real) agricultural policy is very difficult to describe. These graphs can help a lot, but having different graphs for different crops would be preferable.
jp
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Sanitising Thai political history
Tonkhao – 30
Of course you wouldn’t be able to answer any of those questions because you have no clue about the actual role of these peoples…
Such arrogance. Are you a teacher at Chula or Thammasat perhaps?
Strange thing is being a farang and living here for so many years did at one time allow you fairly free access to all social groups in Thailand. In many ways you were outside the Thai class system. Maybe your accusations of ignorance are misplaced. For some of us two decades isn’t that far back.
Apart from removing Suchinda from power (which you thought that was a great result)…
So you feel there was no gain in removing Suchinda? Really just changing one dictator for another?
I think what you were trying to do was shock us with the news that Chamlong and Young Turks didn’t have the most pleasant history. When you failed to achieve that effect you have then tried to give it a pseudo academic cover. Maybe time to go back to impressing your students.
Not Not the Nation
Actually, I eat all kinds of doughnuts, though Krispy Kreme, being the sweetest and sugariest, are my very favorite.
Producer prices and Thaksin’s economic good fortune
Hai Andrew,
Please read Rontorr comments on pricing.
Certain commodities are “controlled items”, generally rice would be one of them. When I refer to price determination by “middle men”, I am refering to non “controlled items” These forms the bulk of income for the rural folks. Big rice fields are controlled by land lords from Bangkok (in the case of Thailand) You may want to spend a few days in the rural district and hang around the “collectors” shops or warehouse to see for yourself this price fixing mechanism.
(footnote – I am currently involve in a program to introduce Stevia (sweetener alternative) farming to local farmers in Chiangmai / Chiangrai. Price fixed at US$1000/ton of dry leaves. Having some issues with local middlemen, as we are bypassing them)
Not Not the Nation
Doesn’t Homer Simpson eat Krispy Kreme doughnuts?
Can Malaysia trust Najib?
Don’t know if Najib can be trusted, but one thing is for sure – he owes too much to Mahathir! As for Mahathir, his ultimate goal is to see his son Mukriz as Prime Minister, before he dies. The day for him to meet his maker is getting close, very close and he knows it. One can tell from the evermore desparate measures Mahathir is taking.
Not Not the Nation
The complete NTN story is here, from a couple years ago I think: http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=379
The recent (real) story about the government trying to nationalize Thai fonts was another one that surpasses parody.
Not Not the Nation
B is “Not the Nation”, but the funniest thing is that the post is tagged with “Sufficiency Economy”
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
Thanks Tonkhao for the two above links. Now I understand why Crispin decides to remain quiet these days.
Join Kasit for breakfast in New York – online
An access to such information has been temporarily ceased
due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)
under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).
Not Not the Nation
“The suggestion that Ausanee was lucky to be born into a rich
family only produces giggles.
“It was anything but lucky when she was trying to get a job, she
points out, and before that she struggled to find a topic for
her doctoral dissertation. She wanted to write about the steel
business, but was advised to find another subject because her
family’s involved in steel too….”
If I were the kind of person who wondered whether Chiranuch had engineered her own arrest, I might also think the writer is a Red Shirt mole trying to stir up class hatred.
Not Not the Nation
I think they’re both true stories about… well actual, if not real… people. The tone of the second is a little more smarmy and self-satisfied than the first so I’d say it was Not, and the first was The Nation.
Producer prices and Thaksin’s economic good fortune
Thanks mainly to China and for lesser extent to India, the whole world is now in one of the longest commodity boom and Andrew’s chart shows it.
The effects of massive price increases in Thai rice and Australian Wheat could be felt even here in Sydney. But because of China (the factory of the world) the prices of manufacturing goods are seriously depressed.
Thai Jasmin rice is now retailing close to 3 dollars a kilo. In the 1990s it was just over $1.50 a kilo, if I still correctly remember. While the prices of cars etc and the electronic goods are now half of what they were in the year 2000.
Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) has been threatening to raise Australian interest rate to stem the rampant inflation because of that shocking increase in the PPI of basic commodities like foodstuff.
Producer prices and Thaksin’s economic good fortune
Hi Jean-Philippe:
1. How did I construct the ratio? The PPI figures (crops and manufacturing) are from the Bank of Thailand Monthly Economic Reports. The Bank keeps changing the base year, so the data was adjusted to a single base year (in this case 1981).
2. Why stop in 1981? Because I haven’t been able to find PPI for manufacturing before then. I have found PPI for all goods (crops, manufacturing etc) going back further. Using this data (cropPPI/all goodsPPI) I have produced this graph, which goes back to 1960. I think it is a reasonable proxy, because the pattern since 1980 is very similiar to the other graph (PPICrops/PPIManufacturing). As you can see, the ratio peaked in the early 1970s and then declined to about 1980.
3. Yes, it could be done for individual crops, if you had the price series.
4. I take your point about the lack of a coherent master policy for agriculture. But I still think it is worth trying to get a big picture. And I think the big picture is clear – 40 years or so of very significant increase in infrastructure, price support, credit, other forms of subsidy, community development, rural health and education, decentralisation etc.
AW
Sanitising Thai political history
LesAbbey – 26
Your presumptuous conclusion distorted the point I was trying to make. It is not about disliking Chamlong or Thaksin. You missed the whole point by personalizing the issue. The reason why I asked you to look deeply into the role of people like Chamlong or Prasong Sunsiri is because I want you to think more critically why a person who once supported the so-called “pro-democracy” movement in 1992 turned out to endorse the coup in 2006? Do we really understand their role? Have they really changed their political stance? or Did we misunderstand their political motives in the first place?
Of course you wouldn’t be able to answer any of those questions because you have no clue about the actual role of these peoples, how they link to the conservative elite in Thailand, and what it means for the democratization process in Thailand, especially in the past two decades. At the heart of the matter, their political move is a reflection of the underlying power relations within the Thai society. That is why the real change has never really happened in the interest of the people. As Pasuk and Chris Baker argued in the recent article, “the modern Thai political system is best viewed as an oligarchy which has never been radically threatened from below.”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/197731/the-implications-of-coloured-movements
Last but not least, how can you even claim that what happened in 1992 has a long-term impact on the democratization process in Thailand when we just had another coup in 2006!? Apart from removing Suchinda from power (which you thought that was a great result), you said it yourself that you were not even sure. Let me share my final thought: removing one dictator does not mean a thing if you don’t address the fundamental power structure in Thailand.
Producer prices and Thaksin’s economic good fortune
Just one personal item for Dr. Thaksin. Now that the court has declared void the sale of Rachada land to Khun Ying Pojaman, shouldn’t Dr. Thaksin’s part in his former wife’s transaction be annulled also? It would be decent to see justice being done to someone innocent.
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
Added on christ beale
Seeing how better off the citizen of Middle East compare to Thailand we can see so much different between their respective governing philosophy as well.
Sanitising Thai political history
LesAbbey – 27
I think both you and Tarrin are allowing your dislike of Chamlong to cloud your intelligence regarding 1992.
I never actually “hate” Chamlong, mind you, because I know who he is working for so Chamlong is never in the picture for me, FYI my family voted for him when he was running for Bangkok governor. If its not Chamlong then it could be someone else and nothing is change. My hate is within the corrupted and injustice patronage system.
chris beale – 28
In my opinion, you are partially right that the 1992 is actually a benefit to the middle class, but the establishment has more to gain as they were able to put the military under their control. Before 1992 the establishment and the military could almost be seen as a 2 power sec with in the elite. However, after 1992 the establishment emerge as the winner, that’s why we see people like Anupong or Prayuth who were more than willing to follow the establishment order while we lost general like Krit Srivara in the process. All the establishment did was sharing the power (or given power to depend on from what angle you look at) with the newly emerging middle class and made them another power sec within the elite, namely Thaksin and CP group.
My conclusion to your point is that majority of the the middle class still has little say in the Thai politic and that the true power holder is the establishment.
Noted that many people from my family also join the protest of 1992 so we were, in a way, at the frontline.
Thailand’s hungry military
Yes Anonymous Thai, it is a rough projection. If anyone can provide accurate data I would be very happy.
The most recent GDP figure I can find (Bank of Thailand) is 9.05 trillion baht (2009). 170 billion is 1.88 percent of that. Taking a guesstimate of 10 trillion for more recent GDP, then the percentage would be 1.7. So, I think the extrapolation is pointing in the right direction, though based on these figures the slope is too steep. I will add a note to clarify. AW
Review of Ambiguous Allure of the West
[…] September 2010 by Clare A review by Thosaeng Chaochuti which appears on the New Mandala blog draws attention to a chapter on the uptake of Foucault in […]
Producer prices and Thaksin’s economic good fortune
Hi,
how exactly did you construct this ratio?
And Why stop in 1981? The curve in the 1970s should show important fluctuations due to agri price boom and busts, no?
Could the same graph be done with each important crop. I’d be curious to compare, say, low-value vs high value crops (rice vs asparagus?), or politically sensitive crops (rice and sugar) vs others where producers are not politically powerful, but agritransformers are (maize, soya).
A major problem with proving your point (increase govt support) is that Thailand’s doesn’t have a coherent agricultural policy (there’s no master plan and no sign of anyone ever wanting one since the early 5-year development plans). Rather, it has dozens and dozens of laws, decrees and ad hoc cabinet and ministry resolutions forming a fuzzy and partially incoherent set of formal policies. These are partially contradicted on the ground by informal (covert) practices and policies. As such, Thailand’s de facto (real) agricultural policy is very difficult to describe. These graphs can help a lot, but having different graphs for different crops would be preferable.
jp