Its a small point but Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn is the eldest Royal Princess, not the eldest daughter. The eldest daughter is no longer eligible. Similar issues of succession are to be found elsewhere in the immediate Royal family also.
The behind doors gossip in Bangkok supports Stevenson’s main point. So I would expect a lot of comments undermining his character and characterizations. He’s been there before so he’ll know what to expect. There is surprisingly little comment or information on Royal Funeral for the general that organizes assassinations on his colleagues and represents only Thaksin’s selfish interest. It was always going to be difficult for the Thai media to spin that one. Currently the claim is that all generals get a Royal Funeral. And if I read it in the Nation it must be true…
“The elite, the monarchy, and the generals usurped the sovereignty of the people when they flicked the switch and came in with a coup d’etat. This has been happening for eighty years one way or another. If Thaksin was a crook he should have been judged accordingly by democratic institutions. He wasn’t. And this is why Abhisit has no moral authority to “uphold the law.””
In my view the fact that Thaksin, whose record of human rights abuse and corruption you acknowledge, was not ‘judged accordingly by democratic institutions’ is a clear indication that Thailand was not a functioning democracy at the time. By definition ‘democratic institutions’ must function effectively for democracy to prevail. A coup would have been impossible if a significant percentage of the population were not of the opinion that their democratic rights had already been abused.
“It goes much deeper than Thaksin’s human rights abuses and his land deals and his business interests and his vote buying. He is hung in effigy and accused of lese majeste because he is a nig*er who got off the plantation and asked to sit at the table. He disturbed the age old power structure here in Thailand, a structure that exists at the expense of the vast majority of Thai people who toil away every day making modest livings. The monarchy and the elite and palace generals couldn’t control him, intimidate him, eliminate him because he was so rich.”
If Thaksin was merely a ‘nig*er’ why allow him to complete a full term in power and contest and win a subsequent election prior to his removal? Why allow the 1997 ‘nig*ers’ constitution at all? Personally I’m indifferent towards the monarchy as it stands today. I have read the arguments of the ‘red’ lobby at length, and I am of the opinion that Thaksin hung himself with his own actions and words and that he is guilty of an appalling betrayal of the ordinary people of Thailand and their legitimate aspirations.
All nations (unfortunately) have powerful elites who will protect their own perceived interests, why would Thailand be any different? I don’t accept that in modern Thailand there is a single unified “age old power structure” plotting to oppress the masses. There are a whole host of different influential groups and individuals (including other big business nig*ers), whose interests differ wildly, and who are united only in the belief that Thaksin is detrimental to the interests of the people of Thailand, and/or themselves. I don’t doubt that there are those who do not wish to see a ‘first world’ style democracy prevail in Thailand, and in my view it is a great pity that Thaksin has given them cause to feel vindicated in their belief that ‘the Thai people are not ready for democracy’. I would argue that it was Thaksin’s criminality and systematic erosion of democratic institutions in the relentless pursuit of ever more power and wealth that presented the coup-makers with the perfect excuse, and also robbed Thailand of it’s greatest opportunity to establish a ‘western style’ representative democracy based on the 1997 constitution.
“Whatever Thaksin’s sins, it took a devil to upset the power structure here and this was a great thing.”
In what way was this a ‘great thing’? In my view Thailand could have comfortably achieved ‘first world’ status within a generation if able to sustain its excellent record of economic growth in a politically stable environment. The political complexion of any ‘legitimate’ government would scarcely have mattered. Thailand just needed to ‘get on with it’. Old men with dying attitudes would have faded away rapidly in such an environment as they did in the UK or Japan. Now we are faced with the very real prospect of return to feudalism/military rule with the poor ‘back in their place’, or a brutal ‘Papa Doc Duvalier’ style dictatorship under Thaksin. Civil war/guerilla war, prolonged terrorist campaigns and subsequent military interference in civilian life are all likely possibilities in the near future. What a terrible shame.
“While it is true that the red shirts burned down the city…” Are you saying that Bangkok has disappeared? This Sunday, I planned to use the BTS to go to Central Chidlom. Is this all gone? Chula: Burned! MBK: burned! Siam and Discovery Center: burned!
We know from the Dhamma that we should strive to keep our mind free of delusion and illusion if we are to steer our life on the right path. It is easy for a frail old man surrounded by sycophants to fall prey to delusion and illusion. Unless one keeps his mind objective, prejudice sets in and his sight is obscure.
[…] finds information to be so threatening. In recent weeks, in addition to Prachatai being blocked, New Mandala has been difficult to access, PPT has been blocked, and FACThai has been blocked. Who, or what, […]
Stevenson doesn’t seem to have all his facts straight.
He claims the king singled out Al Quaeda among terrorist organizations back in the 1990s. Not impossible, but it seems far more likely to me that before 9/11 he would have mentioned Jemmah Islamiyah or Abu Sayyaf, those two being much closer to home.
Doyle:
Ah! I’ve been trying to see the ‘political connection’ for Uncle Boonmee and just can’t. Now I ‘get’ it – the chases now makes more sense beyond the interesting visuals. Thanks!
Your kid’s school is really amongst the slow movers.
This has been going on in my nieces and ex-neighbors’ schools for months, since the first failed red-shirt protest if not before. The teachers in computing and foreign language classes have been asking the children to surf the web internationally for sites that are ‘ant-thai’ or ‘anti-king’ and report it to the teacher for the compilation of a blacklist as part of their ‘monthly assignment’. The parents who paid high fees for these local ‘international’ schools were of course naturally unhappy that their children were being exploited as child-labor.
Yes but I actually want to look at it this way, during the 80s where the CPT movement was still prominent in the North-East, Thailand was rule by military government and it seems that the CPT might actually won the day (however, this will end when China-Soviet relation deteriorated during 80s) so the establishment has only 2 choices, either give the population “half-democracy” or fight on and risk Thailand of becoming socialist-communist country. In the end someone convinced the establishment to pick the first choice, so election was held and the CPT lost its influence coupled with the royal pardon granted to anyone who laid down their arm. So I agreed with you, democracy was forced down the establishment throat because of the socialist movement. However, right now I think Democracy itself is a threat to the establishment and the elite, that’s why they want to down play the vote buying excuse so people lost fate in Democracy.
SimonSays (199), Thank you for the powerful insight that Thai political parties are essentially private companies owned by their respective leading politicians. But why make an exception of the Democrat Party? The Democrats seem to be the political subsidiary of the Crown Property Bureau, the Judiciary its advocates, and the Military its hired thugs.
we were just in thailand and spoke to a girlfriend of my wife who goes to same hospital as The …., every week as a day patient. the staff have told her that the …. cames down for walks and talks. He is mentally still together.
actually I got the impression that the redshirts are much broader than the north/northeast
several of the prominent leaders are from the south
there was a 90+ yo very forthright muslim lady who spoke on stage several times and was well received and respected by the crowd, I didnt see many headscarves except hers but assumed there were more from the south (non-muslim as well of course)
I read the story, expecting to find some new insight. The only thing I “learned” is that “now-discredited” Thaksin has been taking lessons from the Moslem separatists in the South while he’s been in the Middle East. That may be true, but it doesn’t sound probable, especially given the clear anti-Thaksin bias of a writer whose own biography of the King stands as an irrelevant “puff piece” and minor hagiography when compared with Handley’s book
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Its a small point but Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn is the eldest Royal Princess, not the eldest daughter. The eldest daughter is no longer eligible. Similar issues of succession are to be found elsewhere in the immediate Royal family also.
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
The behind doors gossip in Bangkok supports Stevenson’s main point. So I would expect a lot of comments undermining his character and characterizations. He’s been there before so he’ll know what to expect. There is surprisingly little comment or information on Royal Funeral for the general that organizes assassinations on his colleagues and represents only Thaksin’s selfish interest. It was always going to be difficult for the Thai media to spin that one. Currently the claim is that all generals get a Royal Funeral. And if I read it in the Nation it must be true…
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Maratjp #46
“The elite, the monarchy, and the generals usurped the sovereignty of the people when they flicked the switch and came in with a coup d’etat. This has been happening for eighty years one way or another. If Thaksin was a crook he should have been judged accordingly by democratic institutions. He wasn’t. And this is why Abhisit has no moral authority to “uphold the law.””
In my view the fact that Thaksin, whose record of human rights abuse and corruption you acknowledge, was not ‘judged accordingly by democratic institutions’ is a clear indication that Thailand was not a functioning democracy at the time. By definition ‘democratic institutions’ must function effectively for democracy to prevail. A coup would have been impossible if a significant percentage of the population were not of the opinion that their democratic rights had already been abused.
“It goes much deeper than Thaksin’s human rights abuses and his land deals and his business interests and his vote buying. He is hung in effigy and accused of lese majeste because he is a nig*er who got off the plantation and asked to sit at the table. He disturbed the age old power structure here in Thailand, a structure that exists at the expense of the vast majority of Thai people who toil away every day making modest livings. The monarchy and the elite and palace generals couldn’t control him, intimidate him, eliminate him because he was so rich.”
If Thaksin was merely a ‘nig*er’ why allow him to complete a full term in power and contest and win a subsequent election prior to his removal? Why allow the 1997 ‘nig*ers’ constitution at all? Personally I’m indifferent towards the monarchy as it stands today. I have read the arguments of the ‘red’ lobby at length, and I am of the opinion that Thaksin hung himself with his own actions and words and that he is guilty of an appalling betrayal of the ordinary people of Thailand and their legitimate aspirations.
All nations (unfortunately) have powerful elites who will protect their own perceived interests, why would Thailand be any different? I don’t accept that in modern Thailand there is a single unified “age old power structure” plotting to oppress the masses. There are a whole host of different influential groups and individuals (including other big business nig*ers), whose interests differ wildly, and who are united only in the belief that Thaksin is detrimental to the interests of the people of Thailand, and/or themselves. I don’t doubt that there are those who do not wish to see a ‘first world’ style democracy prevail in Thailand, and in my view it is a great pity that Thaksin has given them cause to feel vindicated in their belief that ‘the Thai people are not ready for democracy’. I would argue that it was Thaksin’s criminality and systematic erosion of democratic institutions in the relentless pursuit of ever more power and wealth that presented the coup-makers with the perfect excuse, and also robbed Thailand of it’s greatest opportunity to establish a ‘western style’ representative democracy based on the 1997 constitution.
“Whatever Thaksin’s sins, it took a devil to upset the power structure here and this was a great thing.”
In what way was this a ‘great thing’? In my view Thailand could have comfortably achieved ‘first world’ status within a generation if able to sustain its excellent record of economic growth in a politically stable environment. The political complexion of any ‘legitimate’ government would scarcely have mattered. Thailand just needed to ‘get on with it’. Old men with dying attitudes would have faded away rapidly in such an environment as they did in the UK or Japan. Now we are faced with the very real prospect of return to feudalism/military rule with the poor ‘back in their place’, or a brutal ‘Papa Doc Duvalier’ style dictatorship under Thaksin. Civil war/guerilla war, prolonged terrorist campaigns and subsequent military interference in civilian life are all likely possibilities in the near future. What a terrible shame.
Thai institutions series
Hi,
Great initiative! An in-depth analysis on dynamics within the military and the Royal Thai Army or links to such analyses, would be very useful.
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Who is the “former chief of military intelligence, a graduate of a British military academy” that Stevenson is referring to?
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Stevenson refers to Pallop Pinmanee as a radical Red Shirt General.
That’s quite a contrast to the information found in Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallop_Pinmanee
Who are Thaksin’s Muslim connections? Is Stevenson suggesting that Muslims by default must be associated with terrorist activities?
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Som:
“While it is true that the red shirts burned down the city…” Are you saying that Bangkok has disappeared? This Sunday, I planned to use the BTS to go to Central Chidlom. Is this all gone? Chula: Burned! MBK: burned! Siam and Discovery Center: burned!
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Ozzorro:
“If there were terror attacks, then there must be terrorists, simple.”
How about rephrasing this as,
“If there were acts of gross vandalism, then there must be vandals, simple.”
I speak as the citizen of a country that experienced a marxist terrorist movement in the 1970ies.
The king and facebook
We know from the Dhamma that we should strive to keep our mind free of delusion and illusion if we are to steer our life on the right path. It is easy for a frail old man surrounded by sycophants to fall prey to delusion and illusion. Unless one keeps his mind objective, prejudice sets in and his sight is obscure.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
[…] finds information to be so threatening. In recent weeks, in addition to Prachatai being blocked, New Mandala has been difficult to access, PPT has been blocked, and FACThai has been blocked. Who, or what, […]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
R.N #200
Simply because the Democrat Party oppose ‘Thai Rak Thai.’ And that, above all else, is all that should concern us.
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
Stevenson doesn’t seem to have all his facts straight.
He claims the king singled out Al Quaeda among terrorist organizations back in the 1990s. Not impossible, but it seems far more likely to me that before 9/11 he would have mentioned Jemmah Islamiyah or Abu Sayyaf, those two being much closer to home.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Doyle:
Ah! I’ve been trying to see the ‘political connection’ for Uncle Boonmee and just can’t. Now I ‘get’ it – the chases now makes more sense beyond the interesting visuals. Thanks!
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Mike:
Your kid’s school is really amongst the slow movers.
This has been going on in my nieces and ex-neighbors’ schools for months, since the first failed red-shirt protest if not before. The teachers in computing and foreign language classes have been asking the children to surf the web internationally for sites that are ‘ant-thai’ or ‘anti-king’ and report it to the teacher for the compilation of a blacklist as part of their ‘monthly assignment’. The parents who paid high fees for these local ‘international’ schools were of course naturally unhappy that their children were being exploited as child-labor.
Thai style democracy?
Daniel Wolf – 102
Yes but I actually want to look at it this way, during the 80s where the CPT movement was still prominent in the North-East, Thailand was rule by military government and it seems that the CPT might actually won the day (however, this will end when China-Soviet relation deteriorated during 80s) so the establishment has only 2 choices, either give the population “half-democracy” or fight on and risk Thailand of becoming socialist-communist country. In the end someone convinced the establishment to pick the first choice, so election was held and the CPT lost its influence coupled with the royal pardon granted to anyone who laid down their arm. So I agreed with you, democracy was forced down the establishment throat because of the socialist movement. However, right now I think Democracy itself is a threat to the establishment and the elite, that’s why they want to down play the vote buying excuse so people lost fate in Democracy.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
SimonSays (199), Thank you for the powerful insight that Thai political parties are essentially private companies owned by their respective leading politicians. But why make an exception of the Democrat Party? The Democrats seem to be the political subsidiary of the Crown Property Bureau, the Judiciary its advocates, and the Military its hired thugs.
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
this is hearsay. take what you will.
we were just in thailand and spoke to a girlfriend of my wife who goes to same hospital as The …., every week as a day patient. the staff have told her that the …. cames down for walks and talks. He is mentally still together.
who knows what he has got?
why won’t he go home?
Why aren’t more Thai social scientists doing this?
actually I got the impression that the redshirts are much broader than the north/northeast
several of the prominent leaders are from the south
there was a 90+ yo very forthright muslim lady who spoke on stage several times and was well received and respected by the crowd, I didnt see many headscarves except hers but assumed there were more from the south (non-muslim as well of course)
anybody have a better feel for the spread?
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
doyle2499 excellent!
Stevenson on King Bhumibol
I read the story, expecting to find some new insight. The only thing I “learned” is that “now-discredited” Thaksin has been taking lessons from the Moslem separatists in the South while he’s been in the Middle East. That may be true, but it doesn’t sound probable, especially given the clear anti-Thaksin bias of a writer whose own biography of the King stands as an irrelevant “puff piece” and minor hagiography when compared with Handley’s book