If the Authorities in Canberra started using snipers to take out dozens of aussie protesters (and various independent journalists confirmed on film the fact that protesters were typically un-armed when shot) I can guarantee you that it would lead to wide spread protests and demonstrations across Australia.
People like you would no doubt claim the Aussies would take to the streets upon the order of some exiled protest leader overseas. I say the Aussies would take to the streets to show their outrage at a murderous and disgraceful government.
You can try to place all blame on a guy who is sitting overseas publicly calling for peace talks today and show your support the government which totally refuses all negotiation and plans to gain total surrender from the protesters at an ‘accepable’ cost of ‘200-500 casualties’ However I would maintain that those who commit such attrocities deserve and will eventually experience the full wrath of the Thai people.
@ Jit – analysts I have read have suggested that the red’s coming to Bangkok was the chance to do it the peaceful way. Since it has failed, there has been speculation that army factions may engage in civil war, as opposed to the guerrilla theory.
I don’t think Thaksin cares that much about manipulating the country to get back in power. I think he cares about the welfare of the rural poor and is available to serve as needed.
I couldn’t download this one in English or Thai. Only a pretty coloured leaf comes up which is probably more relaxing than Giles’ latest revolutionary tract. Anyway I get the drift. Bring on the Thai revolution now.
Unfortunately Giles’ Marxist movement is unable to get the revolution going by itself because, well er…….. the movement and its affiliates in Thailand disintegrated in the 80s and he is the sole survivor. Never mind, the movement can ride the coat tails of a billionaire fascist thug preaching populist revolution instead. Once the revolution has been successful and the small number of aristocrats have been thrown into the pit, then it will be time to move into the serious phase of the revolution and turn on the bourgeoisie, of which silver spooned, Giles is very much a part but never mind that. Then dissenters will be rounded up and shot as revisionists Spanish Revolution style and the movement will move beyond the billionaire thug who will be divested of his wealth yet again and executed by the will of the people. Dream on Giles.
I get a kick out of the commentators who allow that the protesters ‘have legitimate grievances’, but that they have gone too far, and have refused opportunities to leave. I would like to ask those commentators this: What would you do in their situation? You elect 3 governments, all of which are tossed aside in rapid succession by the army and the courts (under pressure from an occupation of the Airport!). The current government is in power ONLY because it OUTLAWED all the competition! I would say that protest is the next step in order to salvage democracy. So you protest and the government will not listen, so you keep protesting. Then they shoot you. The message is crystal clear if you ask me: Democracy is not for the poor, even if you have the most votes. Sit down and accept it, or you will be shot and/or jailed. Oh, and your media will be censored, or otherwise demonize you for exercising your rights. Perhaps you disagree with my characterization of the situation, but I can tell you with certainty that this is PRECISELY how the vast majority of the protesters feel. These are their ‘legitimate grievances’.
It is astonishing that someone with his educational background has become a mouthpiece for the regime. I would love to know if he really believes this or is being told what to say. If he was selected by Kasit, he must be a right-winger.
It is incredible to me how Royal-cultists have infiltrated all human rights organizations and many of the NGOs in Thailand.
And speaking of the being paid to write stuff, Shawn Crispin seems to be getting compensated based on how many times he uses Thaksin’s name:
Many many Thai’s, even if they do not openly support the reds, they detest the old Elite.
There is a very good chance that Thailand might enter now, if the Reds are put down, a long period of bombings and shootings as is happening the South, only this time it will happen in Bangkok.
All Abhisit the puppet had to do months ago was to call elections and not be scared of democracy.
Sadly his bosses do not want democracy, they use the guns of the army to retain control, as always is the case in Thailand.
Disgusting that these Old Elite use lethal force to quell a civilian protest against their abuse of power since 2006.
The PC, the PAD, the Democrats and many other “Old Elite” need to be tried by International Courts for their offenses against humanity and the Thai people.
The world is finally beginning to see and read about the truth behind Thailand, who are the abusers of power, who use high institutions to protect their Old Elite way of life.
This is the beginning of the end for the Yellow cronies perhaps.
Andrew Walker is a foreigner who thought he understood Thailand just because he lives in Bangkok. He might have some superficial view of the rural lives and spent a lot of his time researching the world statistics of poverty to console those red-shirts that they are not so bad off as compared to the grassroot class in other poor countries. I just want to point out a few aspects that he missed looking.
1. Thailand foreign reserve was completely depleted by the Democrat government before Thaksin came. It was him who shored the country fiscal position quick and repay IMF debt. Apparently Abhisit is plunging Thailand into a huge debt again because he thinks he could win the people’s hearts like Thaksin by borrowing funds and giving away senselessly.
2. Believe me that before Thaksin’s time the “have-nots” may had access to the public health care. But the service for these second class people were slow and inadequate. Many p0or lost their lives because they were denied the proper medicine. I myself might have died years ago without heart bypass service under the Baht 30 medical program.
3. Mr. Walker may not know that Thai farmers were under heavy debts. Without the SME loans to refinance their debts and created small village programs. They may have to sell their farmland and migrate into the city slums. This was why they realized that if they casted votes for Thaksin they would be taken care of in tangible way. They called this change as the “edible democracy”. It’s better than selling their votes to the aristocrats in exchange for a few hundred Bahts of immediate gain.
The myth of the 2nd generation ( someone takes Seh Daeng at his word!) and the monster created by rhetoric is just that– a myth.
These people want what they want and are not a zombie army operating by remote control. They’ve made their intention to see this through as clear as could be over the past two months, leaders or no.
(Reuters) – Exiled former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Wednesday he fears a crackdown on anti-government protesters could lead to guerrilla warfare across the country.
“There is a theory saying a military crackdown can spread resentment and these resentful people will become guerrillas,” Thaksin told Reuters in a telephone interview, declining to say where he was.
This ‘theory’ Thaksin refers to – is this his strategy? Certainly looks that way now.
The Ambassador is a international human rights lawyer with an LLM from Harvard Law School – he has even published a book “International Criminal Law ” published by Oxford University Press. Yet reading his response it is hard to believe he wrote the response to Hartcher’s piece. Its prose is poor and he attacks the person rather than address the arguments (which is typical of press comment in Thailand). Perhaps his appointment as Ambassador is part of a wider strategy by the Thai Government to try to appear concerned with human rights (the election of Thailand to the UN Human Rights Council is another step). The Thai Government seems more concerned with ‘spin’ and illusion than reality.
In an earlier email, on NM, someone had accused Thaksin of being responsible for tsunami deaths. Is there anymore that needs to be said on the mentality of the current Thai Govt?
It sends a shiver down my spine, everytime I think about it.
@LesAbbey: It was without. After weeks of fiery speeches the last thing the protestors want to hear is ‘maybe we should go home now’. They’ve created a monster.
[…] autore anonimo mette in guardia sulla tattica del governo di etichettare i dimostranti come terroristi: Le decine di dimostranti uccisi l'altra notte sono state presentate come prova della presenza […]
Autism is a genetic disease and it’s well known the the King’s half-American grandson who died during the tsunami was autistic, so such a diagnosis might not be unrealistic. I understand the younger of the CP’s two daughters is dyslexic.
There would be no peace talk by the government.
The whole crackdown is a “punitive campaign” against RED shirt, the purpose is to punish and prevent rural horde from descending into Bangkok again. The “mob rule” can only be enforce by Bangkokian only.
Now it’s up to the RED to either run, be subjugated, or reinforce.
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Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Jit 22,
If the Authorities in Canberra started using snipers to take out dozens of aussie protesters (and various independent journalists confirmed on film the fact that protesters were typically un-armed when shot) I can guarantee you that it would lead to wide spread protests and demonstrations across Australia.
People like you would no doubt claim the Aussies would take to the streets upon the order of some exiled protest leader overseas. I say the Aussies would take to the streets to show their outrage at a murderous and disgraceful government.
You can try to place all blame on a guy who is sitting overseas publicly calling for peace talks today and show your support the government which totally refuses all negotiation and plans to gain total surrender from the protesters at an ‘accepable’ cost of ‘200-500 casualties’ However I would maintain that those who commit such attrocities deserve and will eventually experience the full wrath of the Thai people.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
@ Jit – analysts I have read have suggested that the red’s coming to Bangkok was the chance to do it the peaceful way. Since it has failed, there has been speculation that army factions may engage in civil war, as opposed to the guerrilla theory.
I don’t think Thaksin cares that much about manipulating the country to get back in power. I think he cares about the welfare of the rural poor and is available to serve as needed.
Giles Ungpakorn on asset seizures, etc
I couldn’t download this one in English or Thai. Only a pretty coloured leaf comes up which is probably more relaxing than Giles’ latest revolutionary tract. Anyway I get the drift. Bring on the Thai revolution now.
Unfortunately Giles’ Marxist movement is unable to get the revolution going by itself because, well er…….. the movement and its affiliates in Thailand disintegrated in the 80s and he is the sole survivor. Never mind, the movement can ride the coat tails of a billionaire fascist thug preaching populist revolution instead. Once the revolution has been successful and the small number of aristocrats have been thrown into the pit, then it will be time to move into the serious phase of the revolution and turn on the bourgeoisie, of which silver spooned, Giles is very much a part but never mind that. Then dissenters will be rounded up and shot as revisionists Spanish Revolution style and the movement will move beyond the billionaire thug who will be divested of his wealth yet again and executed by the will of the people. Dream on Giles.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
@ Jim
The timing makes sense, but if Prem wanted the reds put down, and then Prem was ousted, why is the faction in power also against the reds?
Bangkok: This is a massacre
I get a kick out of the commentators who allow that the protesters ‘have legitimate grievances’, but that they have gone too far, and have refused opportunities to leave. I would like to ask those commentators this: What would you do in their situation? You elect 3 governments, all of which are tossed aside in rapid succession by the army and the courts (under pressure from an occupation of the Airport!). The current government is in power ONLY because it OUTLAWED all the competition! I would say that protest is the next step in order to salvage democracy. So you protest and the government will not listen, so you keep protesting. Then they shoot you. The message is crystal clear if you ask me: Democracy is not for the poor, even if you have the most votes. Sit down and accept it, or you will be shot and/or jailed. Oh, and your media will be censored, or otherwise demonize you for exercising your rights. Perhaps you disagree with my characterization of the situation, but I can tell you with certainty that this is PRECISELY how the vast majority of the protesters feel. These are their ‘legitimate grievances’.
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
It is astonishing that someone with his educational background has become a mouthpiece for the regime. I would love to know if he really believes this or is being told what to say. If he was selected by Kasit, he must be a right-winger.
It is incredible to me how Royal-cultists have infiltrated all human rights organizations and many of the NGOs in Thailand.
And speaking of the being paid to write stuff, Shawn Crispin seems to be getting compensated based on how many times he uses Thaksin’s name:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE19Ae01.html
Reads like an editorial from The Nation. What kool aid is he drinking.
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
Kriangsak says Hartcher knows nothing of Thailand. Sure, maybe not Kriangsak’s Thailand. How about a protest outside the embassy?
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
@Jit
Many many Thai’s, even if they do not openly support the reds, they detest the old Elite.
There is a very good chance that Thailand might enter now, if the Reds are put down, a long period of bombings and shootings as is happening the South, only this time it will happen in Bangkok.
All Abhisit the puppet had to do months ago was to call elections and not be scared of democracy.
Sadly his bosses do not want democracy, they use the guns of the army to retain control, as always is the case in Thailand.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Disgusting that these Old Elite use lethal force to quell a civilian protest against their abuse of power since 2006.
The PC, the PAD, the Democrats and many other “Old Elite” need to be tried by International Courts for their offenses against humanity and the Thai people.
The world is finally beginning to see and read about the truth behind Thailand, who are the abusers of power, who use high institutions to protect their Old Elite way of life.
This is the beginning of the end for the Yellow cronies perhaps.
The rebellion of Thailand’s middle-income peasants
Andrew Walker is a foreigner who thought he understood Thailand just because he lives in Bangkok. He might have some superficial view of the rural lives and spent a lot of his time researching the world statistics of poverty to console those red-shirts that they are not so bad off as compared to the grassroot class in other poor countries. I just want to point out a few aspects that he missed looking.
1. Thailand foreign reserve was completely depleted by the Democrat government before Thaksin came. It was him who shored the country fiscal position quick and repay IMF debt. Apparently Abhisit is plunging Thailand into a huge debt again because he thinks he could win the people’s hearts like Thaksin by borrowing funds and giving away senselessly.
2. Believe me that before Thaksin’s time the “have-nots” may had access to the public health care. But the service for these second class people were slow and inadequate. Many p0or lost their lives because they were denied the proper medicine. I myself might have died years ago without heart bypass service under the Baht 30 medical program.
3. Mr. Walker may not know that Thai farmers were under heavy debts. Without the SME loans to refinance their debts and created small village programs. They may have to sell their farmland and migrate into the city slums. This was why they realized that if they casted votes for Thaksin they would be taken care of in tangible way. They called this change as the “edible democracy”. It’s better than selling their votes to the aristocrats in exchange for a few hundred Bahts of immediate gain.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Simon and Les:
The myth of the 2nd generation ( someone takes Seh Daeng at his word!) and the monster created by rhetoric is just that– a myth.
These people want what they want and are not a zombie army operating by remote control. They’ve made their intention to see this through as clear as could be over the past two months, leaders or no.
What is the problem with understanding this?
One suspects the old “gullible peasant” canard.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
(Reuters) – Exiled former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Wednesday he fears a crackdown on anti-government protesters could lead to guerrilla warfare across the country.
“There is a theory saying a military crackdown can spread resentment and these resentful people will become guerrillas,” Thaksin told Reuters in a telephone interview, declining to say where he was.
This ‘theory’ Thaksin refers to – is this his strategy? Certainly looks that way now.
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
The Ambassador is a international human rights lawyer with an LLM from Harvard Law School – he has even published a book “International Criminal Law ” published by Oxford University Press. Yet reading his response it is hard to believe he wrote the response to Hartcher’s piece. Its prose is poor and he attacks the person rather than address the arguments (which is typical of press comment in Thailand). Perhaps his appointment as Ambassador is part of a wider strategy by the Thai Government to try to appear concerned with human rights (the election of Thailand to the UN Human Rights Council is another step). The Thai Government seems more concerned with ‘spin’ and illusion than reality.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Interesting article from Asia Times Online
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
In an earlier email, on NM, someone had accused Thaksin of being responsible for tsunami deaths. Is there anymore that needs to be said on the mentality of the current Thai Govt?
It sends a shiver down my spine, everytime I think about it.
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
The harsh Les Majeste law that sentenced Harry Nicolaides woke up the Australian media to see things in a different light.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
@LesAbbey: It was without. After weeks of fiery speeches the last thing the protestors want to hear is ‘maybe we should go home now’. They’ve created a monster.
Bangkok: This is a massacre
[…] autore anonimo mette in guardia sulla tattica del governo di etichettare i dimostranti come terroristi: Le decine di dimostranti uccisi l'altra notte sono state presentate come prova della presenza […]
Assumptions about the next in line
Autism is a genetic disease and it’s well known the the King’s half-American grandson who died during the tsunami was autistic, so such a diagnosis might not be unrealistic. I understand the younger of the CP’s two daughters is dyslexic.
A chance for peace?
There would be no peace talk by the government.
The whole crackdown is a “punitive campaign” against RED shirt, the purpose is to punish and prevent rural horde from descending into Bangkok again. The “mob rule” can only be enforce by Bangkokian only.
Now it’s up to the RED to either run, be subjugated, or reinforce.