Take it easy. Not only Thai ISOC, ASIO , MI5, even KGB always do the same. Investigation (softly: interview) is a part of intelligence job. If you put yourselves in their shoes, you will understand what they are doing. If you have never been involved with their targets, do not worry. In 1970’s I always visited the Embassy of the USSR on Sathorn Road, Bk because I had a Russian class there. I knew I was taken photo from a police kiosk in front of the embassy. However, there was nothing wrong because I just visited the embassy for my Russian class.
[…] – Thai PM Promises “Roadmap” to Solve Protests NEW MANDALA – Thongchai Winichakul on the Red Germs NOT THE NATION – Red Shirts Purge Weng for Wearing Glasses THE NATION – With Red Shirts […]
It would have been a lot easier for you guys, if the red shirts had just left the hospital alone and saved you all these intellectual contortions to justify their brutish invasion.
I agree with the perception that many of the black shirts look like horrific nakleng. Of course there are farmers amongst the red shirts but most of these spend their time sleeping under the BTS punching their cards until they can pick up their pay and go home. The black shirts don’t look as if they have done an honest day’s work in their lives. Most are probably gunmen employed by politicians and gangsters, repo men, illegal lottery and football pool runners, bouncers at sleazy bars, enforcers at illegal bordellos etc etc.
@ Jim Taylor “the current regime has a record of blatant deceit, double standards, lies and misrepresentation”.
Yes, it ‘s hard to match the integrity, truthfulness and general moral cleanliness of Chalerm Yoobamrung, Khattiya Sawasdipol, Chavalit Yongchaiyut, Panlop Pinmanee, Arisman Pongruangrong, Nattawut Saikua, Jatuporn Prompan and other saintly red shirt luminaries.
Herb (c45 & 52) makes some good points – which are well taken by me – and some less good ones.
Kremlinologists got used to keeping photos on file so they could note who had been removed from leadership group shots in line with the demands of changing times – i.e. literally “who was in and who was out”.
Come the internet and Photoshop, everybody’s a potential propaganda factory. A photo appears on panthip.com that shows detectably “enhanced” crowd numbers; reproduced only on other websites as “proof” of inflated number claims, it was never published in the mainstream media – but by itself called into question those that were. Similarly, Thaksin must be incapacitated/dead – otherwise why the detectably doctored photo(s) of him in various tourist spots? One or more is clearly faked, so – to those so-minded – surely they all are. It’s a subtle and nuanced game: some fakes are put out for the ‘normal’ reasons – passing off; others are put out with the intention of them being exposed – and thereby casting doubt on other evidence.
As with urban myths, it seems somebody always knows somebody who witnessed xyz – or if the account is first-hand, they only saw a bit of something; it’s seemingly never both first-hand and complete let alone backed up with a viable visual record.
More of an issue is the connecting together of two or more such hearsay/rumour accounts – as if each somehow lends credibility to the other. All sides are playing this game – carefully selecting which dots to join and which to leave out to produce their slant. Juxtapose ‘A’ with ‘B’ and ‘D’ to produce ‘X’ desired conclusion – and never mind that ‘C’ was left out because it raises doubts about ‘X’.
On a few specific points…… Army ordinance bosses all around the third world would be delighted to hear of any modification that could be made to the Vietnam-era M79 grenade launcher so as to increase its range at all – let alone its accurate range. It’s basically a tube with a trigger mechanism and a firing pin; the arc/propellant/weight of what’s fired from it decide the range.
Whether or not Herb saw the notice about not treating police, Doctor Suthep’s announcement of the policy was widely reported on 8 October 2008 – as was his somewhat mixed apology for and retraction of it the next day after pressure from the health ministry, hospital authorities and the Thai Red Cross. Fair to say, there appears to be no evidence of what he announced actually being put into practice. Herb’s advice that we should not believe something just because it suits our POV applies equally to disbelieving what doesn’t.
Finally – what to make of “After all there is no media showing no bias”? With the exception of what’s left of UDD’s output – a few minor publications and some community radio stations – just what balance is there against the near-lockstep anti-UDD/pro-government bias of allegedly independent Thai media….. press, TV and countless military-operated radio stations? Very rare opinion pieces querying the government’s take may slip in amongst the overwhelmingly UDD-hostile press coverage – but those seem a murmur in a shouting match.
I will inform some of the members of the quality of the audio.
The main reason I appreciate NM is the focus on SEA. We’re actually living in a very dynamic region but also very volatile.
I’d be interested to know your views on Mahathirism.
As for Malaysia – Mahathirism – in my opinion – in most cases it would be what not to do policy wise. He actually got very few policies right – mainly because he put too much belief in himself and the country now suffers from his excesses -but this is my humble opinion.
Definitely, there is much we should and must learn from each other if we are to keep ASEAN a stable region and not repeat the mistakes of others.
In regard to locations:
SABM has conducted road shows in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia’s capital), Ipoh, Penang and Malacca in the West Coast of Peninsular and in Kuching (the capital of Sarawak) and Kota Kinabalu (capital of Sabah) in East Malaysia. The attendances (my estimates) at these road shows are encouraging for a people’s movement – ranging from 50 to a 100. The individuals involved in SABM also regularly give talks and seminars to various community groups at seminars, workshops, rallies, etc – again with attendance ranging from 30 people to more than a 100. Furthermore, the key individuals have popular blogs where the SABM idea is articulated. I estimate conservatively that over the past two years – the SABM team may have interacted with more than a thousand people through its various outreach programme.
In regards to gaining traction:
Firstly, why I say it is gaining traction compared to formal initiatives is because people come freely to the SABM. In the programmes organised by the state (1Malaysia), participants are provided inducements or are sent from government departments or schools and hence have no inclination to the issues discussed.
Secondly, to understand the idea that Malaysians are equal is beginning to gain traction, one must understand the Malaysian context. Since the 1970s until the 2008 general election – Malay supremacy was an accepted fact – both by non – Malays and Malays. After the May 13, 1969 riots where many Chinese were killed, UMNO proved and the non – Malays accepted the fact that ‘real and effective power’ lies with UMNO -not only through the control of politics but also through the use of illegal force. At very election, Malaysians would be reminded of May 13 – and therefore were ‘blackmailed’ into voting BN/UMNO. However, since the 2008 GE, with the battle cry of “Ketuanan rakyat” (supremacy of citizens) the ideas promoted by SABM (whose initial work began before the 2008 GE) are being sown on fertile ground and being accepted widely. That the current Prime Minister himself (at least superficially) have used the term 1Malaysia – is interesting.
As for “Western influenced individuals who yearn for racial and ethnic equality in Malaysia” I can’t answer for them but I can answer for myself – I had the impression that racial and ethnic equality was a universal value and not western. Do you have a different opinion, Pharris?
As for the definition of Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia – it is clear to me (again one needs to understand the Malaysian context to understand the definition) – that all Malaysians are equal and no preference is to be based on race. As example, you will notice that all government departments, government linked corporations, institutions (Judiciary, Election Commission, Police, Military, etc) are all headed by Malays. This is part and parcel of the Malay Supremacy idea practised by UMNO. The SABM definition of citizenship will make race irrelevant (i.e. race will not be identified in any government documents) and hence anyone can head these institutions as was the case before the 1970s.
Having focus on issue of Reds leadership, I forgot to say that I agree substanticially with Aladdin on issue of the Reds’ attitude towards the monarchy, which I’m certain, is more complicated than Thongchai allows, probably for political reason of countering gov propaganda.
Like the issue of Thaksin, I don’t think it’s correct to ‘give grounds’ to gov and Manager attack. They say ‘the Reds are Thaksin’s tools, in other words any association with Thaksin is seen by them as bad. So academics and activists, sympathatic to the Reds, try to deny or playdown Thaksin’s role, in effect, conceding grounds to the gov/Manager that to admit Thaksin’s involvement means bad thing. Likewise the gov raises the issue of the Reds’ threat to the monarchy and produces the bogus mind-map, so academics and activists (as well as the Reds leadership themselves) playdown or even deny that the Reds are in any way anti-monarchy. I personally disagree with such strategy of argument/counter-attack.
On the issue of the monarchy and the Reds, and speaking under the restriction of LM laws (not to mention being ‘named’ in the mind-map), I’d just like to point out that several incidents in the bogus ‘mind-map’ like the ‘picture of Dinoseur and Blue Diamonds’, or the covers of Red magazines showing cards, etc. are not ‘meaningless’ or ‘accidental’, and many of the Reds themselves, even among the masses of taxi drivers, barbers, etc., know exactly what they represent.
P.S. of course, if I were to be summoned and asked by the police ‘what they represent’, my answer would be ‘Why ask? It’s obvious that they ‘represent’ what they represent, namely ‘Dinoseur and Blue Diamonds, and playing cards’ etc!
Korapin –
Thank you for your thoughtful remarks. One interesting point: the Chula Hospital doctor’s letter from the heart says: “Today, concerned with the safety of patients and their families, students, nurses, physicians and staff, the hospital administrator decided to suspend all functions.”
But the hospital director specifically said to the press on Friday that the patients all left the hospital “voluntarily.” That’s certainly shading the truth.
Manoonkit, like his former ‘Young Turk’ colleague Phanlop, has chnaged side for quite a while now. I’m not sure when exactly, but probably around the same time as Phanlop (i.e. early last year). A few months ago, he (Manoonkit) relaeased a copy of a letter he sent to Prem, damning the latter for his role in the coups past (1980 etc), his betryal of many people (the Young Turk in particular), and ‘hinted’ at Prem’s still ‘undisclosed’ roles etc. The letter itself, in my view, isn’t of much value to historical knowledge. (As far as I can remember. I must confess I read it quickly and didn’t find my interest and didn’t keep a copy myself. I probably should re-read it again sometime, to see if I miss anything.) But it’s widely published in Red Shirts publications, and was read and repeatedly referred to on Red Shirts stage.
All red shirt supporters I know got their red ID cards, I don’t see how if 30% of Udon population are registered reds the overall support jumps to 70%. That’s quite a stretch, though red registration in Udon might be not as sweeping as here in Bangkok.
TAN news wrote about a poll by Khon Kaen university not long time ago:
Or you can go back to the by elections in Sakhon Nakhon where BJT candidate got about a third of the votes.
My point is that even in red heartland political allegiances are not uniform, and that’s even before considering the rest of the country that has it’s fair share of the poor, disadvantaged, nak lengs,whatever.
It’s not a class or ideology split, it’s a split along propaganda lines.
Prachatai has an article saying, “The Red Leaders are consulting among each other about the government’s proposal; its opinions will be announced today (May 4th 2010). The Red Leaders emphasize that the government should not say one thing and do another. Even though the prime minister offers talk but at the same time threatens to use tanks and to arrest the Red Leaders even it means to kill the Red Leaders.”
“What should the government believe?”
Does it matter? Is not the government the proverbial lackey of the state and it does not have a right to believe anything, only do as told? Or is this another illusion?
Sometimes we get stuck on aspects of interim governance when it’s the system in place that really matters. Part of the UDD/Red Shirt upheaval is a result of this ancient wrong.
As to how “the situation” will be resolved, it is very possible that it will be solved the same way it has been in the past – blood spilled, few regrets voiced, and back to status quo. That is, little to nothing gets settled. This is the likelihood, albeit not certainty.
Concerning the soldiers with flip-flops, there are photos showing that they were at the car park at Charn Issara Bldg, on the other side of the Rama IV road from the hospital. I can personally vouch for this as I parked there several times. Another point that may be of concern, when my father was admitted to the hospital, they didn’t issue pink sandals. (This don’t mean that they didn’t now. I’m not against pink shoes, but for this institute which is considered a conservative establishment, I simply think it is unlikely that they would issue pink footwears as it would be impolite.)
There were few doctors who had really disgraced themselves about those remarks, however, they are a very small fraction. (Not to say that they were reprimanded shortly later.) To blame the whole institute for some individuals are unfair.
From the articles, I can also confirm the noise pollution. For weeks at night, standing on the road from the opposite corner (diaganally across) the hospital campus, I could hear the loundspeaker noise, fire crackers, etc. I can not imagine the noise level on the Sala-daeng corner buildings is like.
Portman – there are so many clips in youtube that clearly shows that the securities force actually fire first, it was not until the last hour of the crash that we see the black troop appeared.
Why anyone learned and lucid would accept the unconfirmed stories of Khun Thanong Khanthong (as well as Khun Tulsathit Taptim and Khun Sopon Onkgara) as substantiated fact is beyond me. But I have had the immense privilege to have met and spoken with the three aforementioned journalists a number of times and I must say that they consistently fail to impress. It is an open secret that the three gentlemen from The Nation function as an important component of the PAD hydra. Back in 2008 I attended a few brainstorming sessions of the PAD’s media communications committee and had a chance to hear them share their thoughts, express their opinions and offer their “unsolicited” advice as “concerned Thai citizens”. Honestly, it was most difficult to follow their pseudo-amart logic. Also, it is rumoured that their articles are penned by certain ghost writers who happen to be members of a particular military unit.
Still what intrigues me the most is that occasionally Khun Thanong throws out a gem of a lead accidentally but nobody follows up. For instance, in early April Thanong posted a couple of teasers that dealt with Red Shirt financing. I recall that the reaction of my father-in-law was instantaneous. He immediately called one of his colleagues in the military and told him that “Thanong needs a haircut” (meaning that Mr. Khanthong was not towing the line and needed to be brought into the fold). Maybe Khun Thanong wanted to engage in some indie journalism and reinforce his credentials as a “free thinker” but his innocent comments ran counter to the agreed-upon trifecta (military-government-PAD) account of Thaksin being the sole sugar daddy of the Peau Thai/UDD. He has since ended his musings on the matter. Come to think of it, I suspected that some intrepid reporter would follow up and delve deeper into the subject (he/she would have been able to uncover a slew of fascinating financial linkages which potentially would have blown the whole facade of this political crisis wide open). Yet absolutely nothing came of it. Do I hear the word “self-censorship” echoing in the room?
In short, we are indeed witnessing a war of propaganda and of competing narratives. Each side produces stories and slants the coverage in order to demonize the other, to justify their virtuous struggle against the oppressive and immoral State/government, to create the fiction that Thailand’s political drama is a battle between good and evil. Lies are fed purposefully to the media in this country and then they get printed on paper and suddenly become converted into truths for mass consumption. As such, it is plainly obvious that to rely on the reports of Thai journos as divine revelations is an act of complete foolishness. However, never underestimate the inbred asininity of our species.
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Thai military intelligence in action
Take it easy. Not only Thai ISOC, ASIO , MI5, even KGB always do the same. Investigation (softly: interview) is a part of intelligence job. If you put yourselves in their shoes, you will understand what they are doing. If you have never been involved with their targets, do not worry. In 1970’s I always visited the Embassy of the USSR on Sathorn Road, Bk because I had a Russian class there. I knew I was taken photo from a police kiosk in front of the embassy. However, there was nothing wrong because I just visited the embassy for my Russian class.
Thongchai Winichakul on the Red “germs”
[…] – Thai PM Promises “Roadmap” to Solve Protests NEW MANDALA – Thongchai Winichakul on the Red Germs NOT THE NATION – Red Shirts Purge Weng for Wearing Glasses THE NATION – With Red Shirts […]
Thongchai Winichakul on the Red “germs”
It would have been a lot easier for you guys, if the red shirts had just left the hospital alone and saved you all these intellectual contortions to justify their brutish invasion.
I agree with the perception that many of the black shirts look like horrific nakleng. Of course there are farmers amongst the red shirts but most of these spend their time sleeping under the BTS punching their cards until they can pick up their pay and go home. The black shirts don’t look as if they have done an honest day’s work in their lives. Most are probably gunmen employed by politicians and gangsters, repo men, illegal lottery and football pool runners, bouncers at sleazy bars, enforcers at illegal bordellos etc etc.
The speech that wasn’t televised
[…] giving an inspiring speech called “From the Earth to the Sky” To read the speech click here. There has also been a warrant issued for his […]
Abhisit’s offer
@ Jim Taylor “the current regime has a record of blatant deceit, double standards, lies and misrepresentation”.
Yes, it ‘s hard to match the integrity, truthfulness and general moral cleanliness of Chalerm Yoobamrung, Khattiya Sawasdipol, Chavalit Yongchaiyut, Panlop Pinmanee, Arisman Pongruangrong, Nattawut Saikua, Jatuporn Prompan and other saintly red shirt luminaries.
Chulalongkorn Hospital – an alternative account
Herb (c45 & 52) makes some good points – which are well taken by me – and some less good ones.
Kremlinologists got used to keeping photos on file so they could note who had been removed from leadership group shots in line with the demands of changing times – i.e. literally “who was in and who was out”.
Come the internet and Photoshop, everybody’s a potential propaganda factory. A photo appears on panthip.com that shows detectably “enhanced” crowd numbers; reproduced only on other websites as “proof” of inflated number claims, it was never published in the mainstream media – but by itself called into question those that were. Similarly, Thaksin must be incapacitated/dead – otherwise why the detectably doctored photo(s) of him in various tourist spots? One or more is clearly faked, so – to those so-minded – surely they all are. It’s a subtle and nuanced game: some fakes are put out for the ‘normal’ reasons – passing off; others are put out with the intention of them being exposed – and thereby casting doubt on other evidence.
As with urban myths, it seems somebody always knows somebody who witnessed xyz – or if the account is first-hand, they only saw a bit of something; it’s seemingly never both first-hand and complete let alone backed up with a viable visual record.
More of an issue is the connecting together of two or more such hearsay/rumour accounts – as if each somehow lends credibility to the other. All sides are playing this game – carefully selecting which dots to join and which to leave out to produce their slant. Juxtapose ‘A’ with ‘B’ and ‘D’ to produce ‘X’ desired conclusion – and never mind that ‘C’ was left out because it raises doubts about ‘X’.
On a few specific points…… Army ordinance bosses all around the third world would be delighted to hear of any modification that could be made to the Vietnam-era M79 grenade launcher so as to increase its range at all – let alone its accurate range. It’s basically a tube with a trigger mechanism and a firing pin; the arc/propellant/weight of what’s fired from it decide the range.
Whether or not Herb saw the notice about not treating police, Doctor Suthep’s announcement of the policy was widely reported on 8 October 2008 – as was his somewhat mixed apology for and retraction of it the next day after pressure from the health ministry, hospital authorities and the Thai Red Cross. Fair to say, there appears to be no evidence of what he announced actually being put into practice. Herb’s advice that we should not believe something just because it suits our POV applies equally to disbelieving what doesn’t.
Finally – what to make of “After all there is no media showing no bias”? With the exception of what’s left of UDD’s output – a few minor publications and some community radio stations – just what balance is there against the near-lockstep anti-UDD/pro-government bias of allegedly independent Thai media….. press, TV and countless military-operated radio stations? Very rare opinion pieces querying the government’s take may slip in amongst the overwhelmingly UDD-hostile press coverage – but those seem a murmur in a shouting match.
Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia
Hi Sawarin,
Thank you for your kind words.
I will inform some of the members of the quality of the audio.
The main reason I appreciate NM is the focus on SEA. We’re actually living in a very dynamic region but also very volatile.
I’d be interested to know your views on Mahathirism.
As for Malaysia – Mahathirism – in my opinion – in most cases it would be what not to do policy wise. He actually got very few policies right – mainly because he put too much belief in himself and the country now suffers from his excesses -but this is my humble opinion.
Definitely, there is much we should and must learn from each other if we are to keep ASEAN a stable region and not repeat the mistakes of others.
Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia
Hello there Pharris,
In regard to locations:
SABM has conducted road shows in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia’s capital), Ipoh, Penang and Malacca in the West Coast of Peninsular and in Kuching (the capital of Sarawak) and Kota Kinabalu (capital of Sabah) in East Malaysia. The attendances (my estimates) at these road shows are encouraging for a people’s movement – ranging from 50 to a 100. The individuals involved in SABM also regularly give talks and seminars to various community groups at seminars, workshops, rallies, etc – again with attendance ranging from 30 people to more than a 100. Furthermore, the key individuals have popular blogs where the SABM idea is articulated. I estimate conservatively that over the past two years – the SABM team may have interacted with more than a thousand people through its various outreach programme.
In regards to gaining traction:
Firstly, why I say it is gaining traction compared to formal initiatives is because people come freely to the SABM. In the programmes organised by the state (1Malaysia), participants are provided inducements or are sent from government departments or schools and hence have no inclination to the issues discussed.
Secondly, to understand the idea that Malaysians are equal is beginning to gain traction, one must understand the Malaysian context. Since the 1970s until the 2008 general election – Malay supremacy was an accepted fact – both by non – Malays and Malays. After the May 13, 1969 riots where many Chinese were killed, UMNO proved and the non – Malays accepted the fact that ‘real and effective power’ lies with UMNO -not only through the control of politics but also through the use of illegal force. At very election, Malaysians would be reminded of May 13 – and therefore were ‘blackmailed’ into voting BN/UMNO. However, since the 2008 GE, with the battle cry of “Ketuanan rakyat” (supremacy of citizens) the ideas promoted by SABM (whose initial work began before the 2008 GE) are being sown on fertile ground and being accepted widely. That the current Prime Minister himself (at least superficially) have used the term 1Malaysia – is interesting.
As for “Western influenced individuals who yearn for racial and ethnic equality in Malaysia” I can’t answer for them but I can answer for myself – I had the impression that racial and ethnic equality was a universal value and not western. Do you have a different opinion, Pharris?
As for the definition of Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia – it is clear to me (again one needs to understand the Malaysian context to understand the definition) – that all Malaysians are equal and no preference is to be based on race. As example, you will notice that all government departments, government linked corporations, institutions (Judiciary, Election Commission, Police, Military, etc) are all headed by Malays. This is part and parcel of the Malay Supremacy idea practised by UMNO. The SABM definition of citizenship will make race irrelevant (i.e. race will not be identified in any government documents) and hence anyone can head these institutions as was the case before the 1970s.
Hope this clarifies your queries.
Thongchai Winichakul on the Red “germs”
Having focus on issue of Reds leadership, I forgot to say that I agree substanticially with Aladdin on issue of the Reds’ attitude towards the monarchy, which I’m certain, is more complicated than Thongchai allows, probably for political reason of countering gov propaganda.
Like the issue of Thaksin, I don’t think it’s correct to ‘give grounds’ to gov and Manager attack. They say ‘the Reds are Thaksin’s tools, in other words any association with Thaksin is seen by them as bad. So academics and activists, sympathatic to the Reds, try to deny or playdown Thaksin’s role, in effect, conceding grounds to the gov/Manager that to admit Thaksin’s involvement means bad thing. Likewise the gov raises the issue of the Reds’ threat to the monarchy and produces the bogus mind-map, so academics and activists (as well as the Reds leadership themselves) playdown or even deny that the Reds are in any way anti-monarchy. I personally disagree with such strategy of argument/counter-attack.
On the issue of the monarchy and the Reds, and speaking under the restriction of LM laws (not to mention being ‘named’ in the mind-map), I’d just like to point out that several incidents in the bogus ‘mind-map’ like the ‘picture of Dinoseur and Blue Diamonds’, or the covers of Red magazines showing cards, etc. are not ‘meaningless’ or ‘accidental’, and many of the Reds themselves, even among the masses of taxi drivers, barbers, etc., know exactly what they represent.
P.S. of course, if I were to be summoned and asked by the police ‘what they represent’, my answer would be ‘Why ask? It’s obvious that they ‘represent’ what they represent, namely ‘Dinoseur and Blue Diamonds, and playing cards’ etc!
Chulalongkorn Hospital – an alternative account
Korapin –
Thank you for your thoughtful remarks. One interesting point: the Chula Hospital doctor’s letter from the heart says: “Today, concerned with the safety of patients and their families, students, nurses, physicians and staff, the hospital administrator decided to suspend all functions.”
But the hospital director specifically said to the press on Friday that the patients all left the hospital “voluntarily.” That’s certainly shading the truth.
Thai military intelligence in action
its usual to think military intelligence is an oxymoron, all process but no imagination
like the NSA and CIA in the US… huge information gathering leading to a report that gives the conclusion they think their boss wants
so, dont be too comfortable… if someone decides they want to do something with you the evidence is usually irrelevant
eg… the GT200, great for framing people the military want to mistreat
technically it doesnt work but serves their purpose
Interview with Thaksin: “I am speaking to you from heaven”
Stan G –
Thanong provided “a lot more details”? Please send them along — other people here have been providing the citations.
To the best of my knowledge, Thanong hasn’t even been able to provide the alleged legal basis for any assets being seized.
Thanks.
Thongchai Winichakul on the Red “germs”
Reply to superanonymous #47
Manoonkit, like his former ‘Young Turk’ colleague Phanlop, has chnaged side for quite a while now. I’m not sure when exactly, but probably around the same time as Phanlop (i.e. early last year). A few months ago, he (Manoonkit) relaeased a copy of a letter he sent to Prem, damning the latter for his role in the coups past (1980 etc), his betryal of many people (the Young Turk in particular), and ‘hinted’ at Prem’s still ‘undisclosed’ roles etc. The letter itself, in my view, isn’t of much value to historical knowledge. (As far as I can remember. I must confess I read it quickly and didn’t find my interest and didn’t keep a copy myself. I probably should re-read it again sometime, to see if I miss anything.) But it’s widely published in Red Shirts publications, and was read and repeatedly referred to on Red Shirts stage.
Interview with Thaksin: “I am speaking to you from heaven”
BKK Lawyer,
Thanong has written several more articles after that first one that had a lot more details that couldn’t have come from arabiannews.
Not that I trust his sources.
Thongchai Winichakul on the Red “germs”
Ricefield Radio,
All red shirt supporters I know got their red ID cards, I don’t see how if 30% of Udon population are registered reds the overall support jumps to 70%. That’s quite a stretch, though red registration in Udon might be not as sweeping as here in Bangkok.
TAN news wrote about a poll by Khon Kaen university not long time ago:
http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1028179
Only 51% were in support of House Dissolution.
Or you can go back to the by elections in Sakhon Nakhon where BJT candidate got about a third of the votes.
My point is that even in red heartland political allegiances are not uniform, and that’s even before considering the rest of the country that has it’s fair share of the poor, disadvantaged, nak lengs,whatever.
It’s not a class or ideology split, it’s a split along propaganda lines.
Thongchai Winichakul on the Red “germs”
Prachatai, Mon, 2010-05-03 23:35
р╣Бр╕Бр╕Щр╕Щр╕│р╣Ар╕кр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╣Бр╕Фр╕З р╣Ар╕Хр╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕п р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Бр╕Цр╕ер╕Зр╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣Гр╕Щр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 4 р╕Ю.р╕Д.р╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╣Ар╕Кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Бр╕Щр╕зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕вр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Ыр╕┤р╕Фр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Хр╕╣р╕Др╕╕р╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щ р╕вр╣Йр╕│р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Др╕зр╕гр╕Ыр╕▓р╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕Вр╕вр╕┤р╕Ъ р╣Ар╕Юр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕п р╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╣Ар╕Ир╕гр╕Ир╕▓ р╣Бр╕Хр╣И р╕ир╕нр╕Й.р╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕нр╕нр╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕Вр╕╣р╣Ир╕Ир╕▒р╕Ър╕Хр╕▓р╕вр╣Бр╕Бр╕Щр╕Щр╕│-р╣Ар╕нр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр╕лр╕╕р╣Йр╕бр╣Ар╕Бр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕кр╕ер╕▓р╕в
р╕Щ.р╕Ю.р╣Ар╕лр╕зр╕З р╣Вр╕Хр╕Ир╕┤р╕гр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕г
Prachatai has an article saying, “The Red Leaders are consulting among each other about the government’s proposal; its opinions will be announced today (May 4th 2010). The Red Leaders emphasize that the government should not say one thing and do another. Even though the prime minister offers talk but at the same time threatens to use tanks and to arrest the Red Leaders even it means to kill the Red Leaders.”
Weng Tojirakarn M.D. (one of the Red Leaders )
Suthep threatens arrests
“What should the government believe?”
Does it matter? Is not the government the proverbial lackey of the state and it does not have a right to believe anything, only do as told? Or is this another illusion?
Sometimes we get stuck on aspects of interim governance when it’s the system in place that really matters. Part of the UDD/Red Shirt upheaval is a result of this ancient wrong.
As to how “the situation” will be resolved, it is very possible that it will be solved the same way it has been in the past – blood spilled, few regrets voiced, and back to status quo. That is, little to nothing gets settled. This is the likelihood, albeit not certainty.
Chulalongkorn Hospital – an alternative account
Concerning the soldiers with flip-flops, there are photos showing that they were at the car park at Charn Issara Bldg, on the other side of the Rama IV road from the hospital. I can personally vouch for this as I parked there several times. Another point that may be of concern, when my father was admitted to the hospital, they didn’t issue pink sandals. (This don’t mean that they didn’t now. I’m not against pink shoes, but for this institute which is considered a conservative establishment, I simply think it is unlikely that they would issue pink footwears as it would be impolite.)
http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9194834/P9194834.html
Also, how about “From the heart of a doctor at Chula Hospital”
http://somnuchapa.exteen.com/20100502/from-the-heart-of-a-doctor-at-chula-hospital
There were few doctors who had really disgraced themselves about those remarks, however, they are a very small fraction. (Not to say that they were reprimanded shortly later.) To blame the whole institute for some individuals are unfair.
From the articles, I can also confirm the noise pollution. For weeks at night, standing on the road from the opposite corner (diaganally across) the hospital campus, I could hear the loundspeaker noise, fire crackers, etc. I can not imagine the noise level on the Sala-daeng corner buildings is like.
Interview with Thaksin: “I am speaking to you from heaven”
Portman – there are so many clips in youtube that clearly shows that the securities force actually fire first, it was not until the last hour of the crash that we see the black troop appeared.
Interview with Thaksin: “I am speaking to you from heaven”
“I pity the fool ….. ”
Why anyone learned and lucid would accept the unconfirmed stories of Khun Thanong Khanthong (as well as Khun Tulsathit Taptim and Khun Sopon Onkgara) as substantiated fact is beyond me. But I have had the immense privilege to have met and spoken with the three aforementioned journalists a number of times and I must say that they consistently fail to impress. It is an open secret that the three gentlemen from The Nation function as an important component of the PAD hydra. Back in 2008 I attended a few brainstorming sessions of the PAD’s media communications committee and had a chance to hear them share their thoughts, express their opinions and offer their “unsolicited” advice as “concerned Thai citizens”. Honestly, it was most difficult to follow their pseudo-amart logic. Also, it is rumoured that their articles are penned by certain ghost writers who happen to be members of a particular military unit.
Still what intrigues me the most is that occasionally Khun Thanong throws out a gem of a lead accidentally but nobody follows up. For instance, in early April Thanong posted a couple of teasers that dealt with Red Shirt financing. I recall that the reaction of my father-in-law was instantaneous. He immediately called one of his colleagues in the military and told him that “Thanong needs a haircut” (meaning that Mr. Khanthong was not towing the line and needed to be brought into the fold). Maybe Khun Thanong wanted to engage in some indie journalism and reinforce his credentials as a “free thinker” but his innocent comments ran counter to the agreed-upon trifecta (military-government-PAD) account of Thaksin being the sole sugar daddy of the Peau Thai/UDD. He has since ended his musings on the matter. Come to think of it, I suspected that some intrepid reporter would follow up and delve deeper into the subject (he/she would have been able to uncover a slew of fascinating financial linkages which potentially would have blown the whole facade of this political crisis wide open). Yet absolutely nothing came of it. Do I hear the word “self-censorship” echoing in the room?
In short, we are indeed witnessing a war of propaganda and of competing narratives. Each side produces stories and slants the coverage in order to demonize the other, to justify their virtuous struggle against the oppressive and immoral State/government, to create the fiction that Thailand’s political drama is a battle between good and evil. Lies are fed purposefully to the media in this country and then they get printed on paper and suddenly become converted into truths for mass consumption. As such, it is plainly obvious that to rely on the reports of Thai journos as divine revelations is an act of complete foolishness. However, never underestimate the inbred asininity of our species.