Andrew, as for point #3 above, the red shirts should be more careful and prepared all the time because the ammat will not give up easily. Only last night, People Channel TV went black/blank again, prompting Nathawut to issue a warning that an early morning raid to capture the leaders and disperse the reds from the two locations is most likely.
In addition, I just received a sms this Wednesday morning that said Abhisit had issued an order to capture ALL the leaders within three days.
One needs to observe great circumspection before insulting New Mandala royalty so I will try to be as cautious as possible.
Where exactly does Mr. Campbell face prosecution? Why does ABC not allow distribution outside of Australia? Is it true that ABC already evacuated their Bangkok staff?
If the report breaks no ground that the Economist covered previously, Mr. Campbell does not live in Thailand, and Australia faces no political repercussions, where does the heroism come from? This is not to denigrate New Mandala-land or her subjects!
This was a courageous report in the finest traditions of Foreign Correspondent. Time and time again we see foreign correspondents doing the hard yards in situations where the local media is either unable or too feeble to report accurately. I hope the local Thai media are amboldened by the brave examples set by their international peers.
For those who did not understand what was Darunee Charnchoensilpakul speech for those red shirt people will never understand. She insult him with her anger by treated our king for life. Is that the right thing to do? For the future king issue I think it is the personal issue, don’t u guys have a fetish side? There is a plot to destroy the monarchy so the clip was leaked by insider. Everyone is different , if he is not popular then there will be the change, we don’t need judgement.
One day if you found that your beloved parent has a kinky video of themselves , would u still love them or judge if they are a criminal?
You have your right to say or report and also I have my right to show my thought as I’m Thai who were born , grown and live in thailand. Do you think you really know about Thailand more than Thais? Of course everyone think differently about politics and don’t forget that the Communism who are waiting to terminate the monarchy is still out there waiting for the right time to interfere.
“#9 on #8 Srithanonchai // Jan 16, 2010 at 7:21 pm
“Giles Ji Ungpakorn will unite the country and Thailand will become a modern country with justice for all.”
Would this sentence not have been sufficient for the purpose of sarcasm?”
Indeed, it is the stuff of uncritical hero worship. I respect the subject man for his constancy, but could do without the adoring fanclub. Not so much because of aversion to what cloys, but because more factually-inclined histories suggest that this sort of nonsense only encourage megalomania. And this is a country long plagued by monomaniacs, megalomaniacs and blowhard hoodlums.
While I agree the report broke new ground for television coverage of the Thai monarchy I didn’t agree with its main argument, that the real problem is that the Crown Prince is not morally capable of “following in the footsteps” of his well-loved father – and that the Thais are not allowed to talk about it because of the lese majeste law.
In my opinion the Crown Prince’s personal character is a minor issue.
The real issue is the monarchy’s undemocratic hold over the Thai polity, especially through the Privy Council’s influence over military appointments, the judiciary, and the bureaucracy. This is what the lese majeste law is really intended to hide and prevent discussion of.
For this we must blame the father, not the son.
I realize that there is only so much you can say in a 30 minute report,
but rather than dwell on the Crown Prince’s peccadillos I would have liked the report to have discussed much more important matters that Thais are not allowed to discuss, especially the king’s interventions in the judiciary since 2006, and his involvement in the coup.
Then there is the 24/7/365 propaganda, the Crown Property Bureau, the Royal Projects, the king’s role in the October 1976 massacre, etc.
Hopefully these issues could be dealt with in a follow-up report, because this would do much to explain the impetus behind the Red Shirts demonstrations today.
Let’ s put it this way then. The victims were killed by other Thais, political allegiance unknown, who see nothing wrong with snuffing out another person’s life for the sake/profit of a few overprivileged individuals. That statement stands up whatever bloody faction the murderers come from.
No democracy can ever be built in a society where mobs, factions, cliques, mafias, goon squads and renegade security forces run riot on a daily basis. Let’s dispel the myth that this is an essentially peaceful society. Sure there are a very high percentage of people who mind their own business and tolerate others. These people continue to be given a very rough deal, while those who are constantly aggressive are only ever rewarded. A (significant) minority is persistently given free license to roam the streets and murder, maim and pillage as they see fit – with absolute impunity. That really is today’s Thai society. And that’s the way it’s been for decades. No democracy can ever be created under these conditions. But the fantasy-world notion of democracy can (and constantly is) used as an excuse for further violence.
Until such factions show much greater respect for the rule of law, democracy is impossible. And for people to observe the rule of law, there have to be reliable security forces and a reliable system of justice. No one can argue these things are already in place. So the necessary prerequisites for democracy are almost entirely absent.
Let’s stop kidding ourselves that democracy is possible under current circumstances. This is a violent society – albeit one in which much of the violence is carried out by a fairly small group of serial criminals. If these groups remain as untouchable terrorist organizations, there will never be any improvement. Their concentration on criminality has also prevented them from having any coherent policy to address the country’s main problems – born, as they are, out of the laissez-faire disregard of the over-privileged for those who produce the country’s real income.
I am now convinced that both the yellow shirts and redshirts are essentially criminal organisations, based on the fact that their leaderships both obviously see nothing wrong with murder, intimidation and theft. Likewise most political parties, many individuals in the security forces and quite a few in the civil service and elite. Even the country’s highest have a tendency to solve problems through murder and intimidation.
(One could argue that the ordinary members of these factions are also complicit, since their allegiance indicates they see nothing wrong with crime.)
And here we are expecting the criminals on both sides of this bitter succession race to deliver us into democracy. How utterly absurd! If the so-called intelligentsia can’t work out that plain & simple truth, we are definitely doomed to living in a failed state. We will gain nothing from supporting either faction of succession profiteers . Both factions are undoubtedly terrorists.
[…] is not the time for a full account of Eric Campbell’s Foreign Correspondent report, which was broadcast on ABC television last night (and is available here on ABC […]
[…] Australian journalist Eric Campbell providing commentary on his recent Thailand report as quoted in Erik Jensen, “ABC reporter risks jail over Thai report“, The Sydney […]
Bh. V.: What does Godwin’s law say about simultaneous comparisons to Mussolini, Stalin, and Hitler by Foriegn Ministers trying to explain a domestic political crisis to the international community? Surely you are refering to Kasit’s Hitler reference at SAIS today, not this particular online discussion:
“Everyone is playing naive, closing their eyes and so on, simply because he [Thaksin] was once an elected leader. Hitler was elected, Mussolini was elected, even Stalin could say that he was elected also but what did they do to their very society? This is the question.”
— Kasit, 4/14/10 JHU SAIS
If the “Reds” are successful in bringing about an election the obvious concern is the losing Party will not accept the result and the civil conflict with continue to remerge. Am I too idealistic in suggesting an election is called as soon as possible and overseen by UN observers with an undertaking that the major political parties will accept the election outcome? I would be interested to hear comments about how an outside intervention would be viewed by Thais and if it were possible.
“I reckon a genuine democracy similar to Indonesia is coming to Thailand soon?”
there is no genuine democracy anywhere in the world, it is, shall we say, a statistical fact.
whole term “Democracy” is cliche used by global elite. it is a false premise – out of which all other possible conclusions would also be erroneous. western countries at best have either oligarchy or a “corporate fascism” – some say “socialism for the rich”. and yet they impose this FAKE concept upon others, often and many times supporting blatantly brutal dictatorships, while at the same time topple REAL democratically elected governments, or at least sponsor the “colored revolutions”.
(there is a very good documentary by John Pilger called “The War On Democracy” where he exposes all the BS;
BTW he also has movei about Indonesia : “The New Rulers Of The World” and also about Burma : “Inside Burma: Land of Fear”
I wish that one day he could make something similar about Thailand)
However MAY BE Thai peasants just may get a somewhat better opportunities to be able to improve their lives. that would be fair enough, I guess. even if it is called “somtamocracy” 😀
Very quickly: I think you’ll find that Andrew Crook at Crikey wrote the phrase in question. We quote many things on New Mandala, including many things that we may disagree with. Please don’t take a quote as New Mandala‘s encouragement. All we encourage is free and open debate.
” . . .In fact, any public comment that’s considered insufficiently deferential can lead to 20-years in the clink.”
In Fact????? Insufficiently deferential to a 20-year clink???
I have been a resident of Thailand for nearly 10 years now . . . but New Mandala must be hating the Thai monarchy deeply to be writing or encouraging writing such hogwash!!
The Hitler reference seems to follow Godwin’s Law: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”
According to Wikipedia, “a common corollary is that whoever first brings up Hitler or the Nazis is said to have lost the debate.”
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Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
Thanong certainly does report on “private” issues. He has posted a number of articles full of hearsay and scuttlebutt about Thaksin having cancer.
Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
Video not accessible from outside of Australia.
What next?
Andrew, as for point #3 above, the red shirts should be more careful and prepared all the time because the ammat will not give up easily. Only last night, People Channel TV went black/blank again, prompting Nathawut to issue a warning that an early morning raid to capture the leaders and disperse the reds from the two locations is most likely.
In addition, I just received a sms this Wednesday morning that said Abhisit had issued an order to capture ALL the leaders within three days.
Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
Lèse majesté in New Mandala-land?
One needs to observe great circumspection before insulting New Mandala royalty so I will try to be as cautious as possible.
Where exactly does Mr. Campbell face prosecution? Why does ABC not allow distribution outside of Australia? Is it true that ABC already evacuated their Bangkok staff?
If the report breaks no ground that the Economist covered previously, Mr. Campbell does not live in Thailand, and Australia faces no political repercussions, where does the heroism come from? This is not to denigrate New Mandala-land or her subjects!
Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
This was a courageous report in the finest traditions of Foreign Correspondent. Time and time again we see foreign correspondents doing the hard yards in situations where the local media is either unable or too feeble to report accurately. I hope the local Thai media are amboldened by the brave examples set by their international peers.
ABC TV on Thai politics
For those who did not understand what was Darunee Charnchoensilpakul speech for those red shirt people will never understand. She insult him with her anger by treated our king for life. Is that the right thing to do? For the future king issue I think it is the personal issue, don’t u guys have a fetish side? There is a plot to destroy the monarchy so the clip was leaked by insider. Everyone is different , if he is not popular then there will be the change, we don’t need judgement.
One day if you found that your beloved parent has a kinky video of themselves , would u still love them or judge if they are a criminal?
You have your right to say or report and also I have my right to show my thought as I’m Thai who were born , grown and live in thailand. Do you think you really know about Thailand more than Thais? Of course everyone think differently about politics and don’t forget that the Communism who are waiting to terminate the monarchy is still out there waiting for the right time to interfere.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
“#9 on #8 Srithanonchai // Jan 16, 2010 at 7:21 pm
“Giles Ji Ungpakorn will unite the country and Thailand will become a modern country with justice for all.”
Would this sentence not have been sufficient for the purpose of sarcasm?”
Indeed, it is the stuff of uncritical hero worship. I respect the subject man for his constancy, but could do without the adoring fanclub. Not so much because of aversion to what cloys, but because more factually-inclined histories suggest that this sort of nonsense only encourage megalomania. And this is a country long plagued by monomaniacs, megalomaniacs and blowhard hoodlums.
Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
While I agree the report broke new ground for television coverage of the Thai monarchy I didn’t agree with its main argument, that the real problem is that the Crown Prince is not morally capable of “following in the footsteps” of his well-loved father – and that the Thais are not allowed to talk about it because of the lese majeste law.
In my opinion the Crown Prince’s personal character is a minor issue.
The real issue is the monarchy’s undemocratic hold over the Thai polity, especially through the Privy Council’s influence over military appointments, the judiciary, and the bureaucracy. This is what the lese majeste law is really intended to hide and prevent discussion of.
For this we must blame the father, not the son.
I realize that there is only so much you can say in a 30 minute report,
but rather than dwell on the Crown Prince’s peccadillos I would have liked the report to have discussed much more important matters that Thais are not allowed to discuss, especially the king’s interventions in the judiciary since 2006, and his involvement in the coup.
Then there is the 24/7/365 propaganda, the Crown Property Bureau, the Royal Projects, the king’s role in the October 1976 massacre, etc.
Hopefully these issues could be dealt with in a follow-up report, because this would do much to explain the impetus behind the Red Shirts demonstrations today.
War at Khao San
Let’ s put it this way then. The victims were killed by other Thais, political allegiance unknown, who see nothing wrong with snuffing out another person’s life for the sake/profit of a few overprivileged individuals. That statement stands up whatever bloody faction the murderers come from.
No democracy can ever be built in a society where mobs, factions, cliques, mafias, goon squads and renegade security forces run riot on a daily basis. Let’s dispel the myth that this is an essentially peaceful society. Sure there are a very high percentage of people who mind their own business and tolerate others. These people continue to be given a very rough deal, while those who are constantly aggressive are only ever rewarded. A (significant) minority is persistently given free license to roam the streets and murder, maim and pillage as they see fit – with absolute impunity. That really is today’s Thai society. And that’s the way it’s been for decades. No democracy can ever be created under these conditions. But the fantasy-world notion of democracy can (and constantly is) used as an excuse for further violence.
Until such factions show much greater respect for the rule of law, democracy is impossible. And for people to observe the rule of law, there have to be reliable security forces and a reliable system of justice. No one can argue these things are already in place. So the necessary prerequisites for democracy are almost entirely absent.
Let’s stop kidding ourselves that democracy is possible under current circumstances. This is a violent society – albeit one in which much of the violence is carried out by a fairly small group of serial criminals. If these groups remain as untouchable terrorist organizations, there will never be any improvement. Their concentration on criminality has also prevented them from having any coherent policy to address the country’s main problems – born, as they are, out of the laissez-faire disregard of the over-privileged for those who produce the country’s real income.
I am now convinced that both the yellow shirts and redshirts are essentially criminal organisations, based on the fact that their leaderships both obviously see nothing wrong with murder, intimidation and theft. Likewise most political parties, many individuals in the security forces and quite a few in the civil service and elite. Even the country’s highest have a tendency to solve problems through murder and intimidation.
(One could argue that the ordinary members of these factions are also complicit, since their allegiance indicates they see nothing wrong with crime.)
And here we are expecting the criminals on both sides of this bitter succession race to deliver us into democracy. How utterly absurd! If the so-called intelligentsia can’t work out that plain & simple truth, we are definitely doomed to living in a failed state. We will gain nothing from supporting either faction of succession profiteers . Both factions are undoubtedly terrorists.
Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
Could you post a link to the video for American audiences? I’d very much like to see it, but it isn’t accessible for those of outside Oz. Thanks.
Taking a stand against lèse majesté
[…] […]
ABC TV on Thai politics
[…] is not the time for a full account of Eric Campbell’s Foreign Correspondent report, which was broadcast on ABC television last night (and is available here on ABC […]
ABC TV on Thai politics
[…] Australian journalist Eric Campbell providing commentary on his recent Thailand report as quoted in Erik Jensen, “ABC reporter risks jail over Thai report“, The Sydney […]
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
Bh. V.: What does Godwin’s law say about simultaneous comparisons to Mussolini, Stalin, and Hitler by Foriegn Ministers trying to explain a domestic political crisis to the international community? Surely you are refering to Kasit’s Hitler reference at SAIS today, not this particular online discussion:
“Everyone is playing naive, closing their eyes and so on, simply because he [Thaksin] was once an elected leader. Hitler was elected, Mussolini was elected, even Stalin could say that he was elected also but what did they do to their very society? This is the question.”
— Kasit, 4/14/10 JHU SAIS
What next?
If the “Reds” are successful in bringing about an election the obvious concern is the losing Party will not accept the result and the civil conflict with continue to remerge. Am I too idealistic in suggesting an election is called as soon as possible and overseen by UN observers with an undertaking that the major political parties will accept the election outcome? I would be interested to hear comments about how an outside intervention would be viewed by Thais and if it were possible.
War at Khao San
@Hla Oo
ABC TV on Thai politics
Dear Jim Roost,
Very quickly: I think you’ll find that Andrew Crook at Crikey wrote the phrase in question. We quote many things on New Mandala, including many things that we may disagree with. Please don’t take a quote as New Mandala‘s encouragement. All we encourage is free and open debate.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
ABC TV on Thai politics
” . . .In fact, any public comment that’s considered insufficiently deferential can lead to 20-years in the clink.”
In Fact????? Insufficiently deferential to a 20-year clink???
I have been a resident of Thailand for nearly 10 years now . . . but New Mandala must be hating the Thai monarchy deeply to be writing or encouraging writing such hogwash!!
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
The Hitler reference seems to follow Godwin’s Law: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”
According to Wikipedia, “a common corollary is that whoever first brings up Hitler or the Nazis is said to have lost the debate.”
War at Khao San
What is happening in Bangkok is an almost exact replica of 8-8-88 uprising in Rangoon.
If Thailand follows the Burmese example, a coup will come soon and Thais will be ruled by the generals for next 20 years.
But the way Thai Army is reacting now is indicating that the military has no guts for a prolong dictatorship.
I reckon a genuine democracy similar to Indonesia is coming to Thailand soon?