What with a French coach and Belgian technical director, it seems Yadanarpon FC has become something of a сАЧсАнсАпсАЬсА║сААсАТсА▒сАлсА║, at least as far as a sports institution can be.
Ahh! I’ve been waiting for a post on the MNL. Going to a match is certainly an experience, and probably the only time you’ll see 30,000 Myanmar people gathered in one place legally, aside from an IC concert or a pagoda/religious festival.
If you want a pretty detailed look at the finances of the MNL, the Myanmar Times has had a series of articles on the business of the MNL. The last one (http://www.mmtimes.com/no479/b004.htm) deals with club finances and funding and has an interview with the owner of Yadanarbon (Mandalay).
However, there’s little mention of the system used to recruit foreigners. Only three clubs used foreign players (Yangon, Yadanarbon and Delta) this year. I have no idea where Delta found their trio of Argentineans (who were slightly disappointing) but Yangon have an agreement with BEC Tero FC in the Thai Premier League and I think they got nearly all of their foreign players through BEC Tero.
Yadanarbon’s coach and technical director, a Belgian guy, have a network of scouts in Ivory Coast and select the players based on that network. I don’t think any of their five or six Ivorians had played outside of Africa before.
In my opinion, Yadanarbon’s foreign players were the highlight of the competition.
Driving back from Nakhon Sawan to BKK a few weeks ago, it was clear from the number of roadside sellers offering said rodent for human consumption that many Thais ‘care for a rat’. There is even a special symbol that they erect up the road from their stalls to show drivers that they are selling this apparent delicacy.
Very interesting thread. I studied in Sydney for a number of years. Most people at uni are quite nice to us overseas students, and local people (Anglo-aussies) are generally friendly and helpful. However, once( early in the morning) i saw “Asians go home!” pieces of paper pasted on the walls of many uni buildings (they were removed soon afterwards of course, perhaps by uni authorities).
I also encountered a few cases of vicious verbal abuse (which is explicitly racist) by local people. Once in a park, a male stranger, all of a sudden shouted at me and said something like “Asians go home” (but much ruder and more age in tone). Similar incident took place in a bus once.
But I’m not saying that Australia is more racist than other countries. I’m sure foreigners in Thailand encoutered similar or even worse form of discrimination/abuse. I simply hope that racist acts(whenever and wherever they take place, and no matter how subtle they are) are always condemned.
This thread reminds me of a Chinese temple i onced visited. it’s a mountain temple in Xiamen, Fujian. However, the temple i visited is totally different from this one— The Xiamen moutain temple (or manastery?)is just an ordinary, peaceful, quiet temple, not pretentious or grand or anything like this one featured here (although, yes, some people go there for touristic purpose.. most of the visitors are local Chinese ). I derived peace and enjoyed tranquil moments when i was there. I know this is impossible if u visit a temple that is explicitly put on show for commericial/business purpose.
A Review of the Biology and Management of
Rodent Pests in Southeast Asia
Grant R. Singleton and David A. Petch
Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research
Canberra 1994
p13
After visiting the areas affected by the 1991
plague and talking to government officials and
villagers, we were not convinced of this link be-
tween the bamboo flowering and rodent outbreaks.
The story appears to have developed only over the
last ten years or so and may have come across from
northern Thailand (Walter Roder, pers. comm.) One
would expect that if there were a well established
relationship between bamboo flowering and the
appearancc of rodent plagues, then the story would
be enshrined within the folklore of the local people.
They are very careful observers of the environment
and it is extremely unlikely that such an important
relationship would have gone unnoticed prior to the
past decade. It may be that the bamboolrodent story
p16
is an argument of convenience, deflecting the blame
to an act of nature rather than to the fa& manage-
ment of the hill tribes. However it is difficult to be
definitive when reviewing the cause of an outbreak
that occurred two years earlier and when so little is
known about the animals involved.
There is much work to be done to ascertain
whether any of these stories about the relationship
between rodent plagues and bamboo flowering are
true. There is so little known about the biology of
the rodents that even the identity of the main pest
species is uncertain. From talking to farmers and
officers of the Agricultural Services and Extension
Agency, it appears that there are three sizes of pest
rodents. The largest one is assumed to be a bandi-
coot, probably the great bandicoot, Bandicota
indica, the middle sized one the ricefield rat, Rattus
argentiventer, and the smallest probably a species of
Mus (M. caroli or M. cervicolor).
A very interesting and important point from Yutasat#12:
“…”Thai people don’t like to talk to each other”. Of course we all know they do, but what he meant was that its hard for Thai people, at least some, to exchange opinions on deeper and significant matters with others with whom they are not close.”
It is probably cultural to a certain extent and can be likened to what we hear a lot here “international students from Asia do not ask questions or participate in class discussions” – and could also be exacerbated by current Thai divisive politics. In fact, I don’t raise politics with Thais that I have just met and among acquaintances who I had long (and can be quite emotional) debates with over the years, we seem to have grown tired of it all (all the revision of ample ammunition held by both sides!).
Is these ‘public’ self-censorships a hindrance to “free speech” as culturally defined by the West? Probably yes, but maybe free speech – and freedom of expression – needs to also be defined for Asian cultures too and particular to Thailand (with much of this also relative to the culture of – or lack of – the rule of law as I raised in another post).
Will this lead to another Thai reconciliation through mass amnesia? PMThaksin holds the key here – as only he can rally the Red masses like no one else can. The PAD looks more like a reactionary force against Thaksin – which is quite unfortunate. I would have love someone to take ‘war on corruption’ to the extreme that the PAD has taken ‘war on Thaksin’ – it has to be taken beyond Thaksin. On the other hand, as Antipadshist mentioned in #14, PMThaksin may finally be aware of his limitations and decide to cut a deal with the Democrats et al and accept some form, degree of punishment for a return to Thailand. Nothing seems impossible here (for “This is Thailand” as they say) including more street battles and Nostitz Volumes III, IV, V…
“All in all, Thailand is indeed a backward country!” Says Nudi Samsao#15 in a sweeping summary. I take no offense, but I have to disagree. It is more a rich dynamic cocktail of backwardness, forwardness, waywardness – which can be mistaken for going nowhere especially in the old, slow hands of the Democrats where Thaksin/Newin-style fast and hard-corruption is held back to extend the government’s term by a year or so. And, ‘in an only in Thailand’ phenomenon, Chalerm has already formally acknowledged PMThaksin, a convict fugitive, as the leader of PT and Thaksin, the virtual leader of the opposition, is now attacking the Dems policies in his phone-ins countrywide.
This, funnily, must count as a positive development – here is PMThaksin and PT learning the ropes as opposition! Surely this is a ‘functioning’ Thai democracy, albeit very imperfect and eccentric – love it or hate it.
Those contributors who doubt that there is a link between economic migration and study in Australia could have a look at this very recent report by a group of demographers: http://www.population.org.au/files/BirrellHealyKinnaird1_2009.pdf
There has evidently been a dramatic increase in the number of young Indians coming to Australia to learn to cook curries.
When I was in Eastern Shan State about a year ago, I met a monk who had just come back from the opening ceremony of a similar temple in Keng H├╝ng, I think it was, I don’t remember the exact name of the city in Yunnan.
He was conflicted about it. On the one hand, in an area where there had been a lot of damage to the Buddhist traditions, it seemed like a good thing to have a high-prestige place like it; on the other hand, it was clearly run as a business, by a company. He said the monks were real, but were paid to be there.
I suppose most everyone reading this blog knows that impersonating a monk is a rather serious offence.
Fascinating. In material tradition and scale, it is “… a big showy temple not unlike…” those in “… larger cities in China”. This brand-new tradition (to the Dai-lue) may have been an influence from south of the border Thailand too with billions of baht worth of mega-Wats. The innovation here is partnership with a real estate company and we seem to have a creative hybridization of ‘place of worship’ with gated “Dai Disneyland” – a form that reflects the milieu that it is built in. Thanks Thomas for this.
Nudi Samsao#2: “All Thais, judiciary or no, are crooked to a certain degree.” WOW!
At least make an exception for Prasert Nasakul – a brave, true hero of the Thai rule-of-law, still very much in its infancy. If his views were of the majority in 2001, Thai political history would have taken a very, very different trajectory…
“Oh, so Thailand is an outstanding example of free speech. I must have got it wrong. The blocking of internet sites & the ’self-censorship’ of the media are really not repression, they’re the expression of love for the nation. Sorry…” and “need to manufacture ‘evidence’ of an underground conspiracy that threatens national security, in order to get the ’subversives’ under the thumb again.”
Listen to Red community radios nationwide, go to Red rallies, read the Red publications (latest “Voice of Thaksin”) surf the too-wide-to-censor Thai internet world – you don’t have to believe me, consume these yourself and you will likely find a different picture of Thai free speech.
Also read my comment#50. The enforcement of Thai law is carried out by the very popular Thai police – and is pretty much like the enforcement of traffic laws. Once a month after pay day. It is literally 25-29 days of freedom out of 30-31 days of each month (and it is tied to ‘pay’, I must stress probably more than love of order or of the nation)!!!
Yes, websites can be banned, pirated CDs can be burnt, prostitution can be cracked down – you get the picture? What is ‘not allowed’ actually happens all the time…
Steve#51, add ‘more than OK with Mr.Newin’ and a little less ok with PAD and the picture becomes more complete and I am beginning to hear this more often that don’t discount a Democrat-Thaksin (PheuThai) coalition!!! I agree Michael, there’s still many turning-circles to do, unfortunately…
Sorry – a further comment. AW noted that ‘the banks are running out of patience’. No, I don’t think that’s true: once they realised what a total mess their fellow wan….sorry, bankers had made of the world economy, all of a sudden their triple-bottom line talk (which I always thought appropriate anyway for people with such large and flabby posteriors) went out the window; there was no longer any consideration of environmental performances or sustainable community investment by Sepon (or any other mine). Suddenly there was only one thing that mattered: give us the money NOW. The banks, it turned out had no patience whatsoever and once saved from their own follies by public subsidies immediately turned round and screwed everyone else, including miners. OZ Minerals at the time may not have been the most wise or best-managed of companies, but the role of the banks in its difficulties (which included that set of dopes in France whose level of prudence was demonstrated when one of their junior traders almost did a Gleason on them last year) was dripping with cowardice.
It is really quite astonishing to me that so little has appeared in even the New Mandala concerning this matter which not only directly affects Lao PDR’s single biggest source of exports, biggest private employer and biggest single tax payer but also places the Sepon Mine – located at one of the three most strategic places on the Lao-Vietnam border – in the hands of a PRC government owned company.
The implications of this last point deserve a whole MA thesis (at least) on their own. Given the history of Vietnam/China relations (whichever form of politics either has practiced) and given the nature of Viet-Lao relations (fraternal delegations arrive every other day in Vientiane) one would imagine that Hanoi is far from comfortable with this deal. If Wayne Swann could throw out the original deal over security concerns at the former testing station for nuclear powered wombats, the mind boggles at what sort of messages passed between Hanoi and Vientiane over control of the Xepon Gap area.
However, whatever strains it might have created for Vientiane in that regard, the deal did at least ensure that the Lao PDR got its due taxes from the mine – something the potential bankruptcy of the mining group to which the (profitable) Sepon Mine belonged – it would have otherwise missed out on. For much of the period July 2008 to June 2009, the ludicrous situation had arisen whereby a mine in one of the poorest Asian countries was effectively subsidising failing mines in Australia and yet all the decisions regarding the fate of the group as a whole were being taken in Canberra and Melbourne without reference to the interests of Laos.
Good to see that Not The Nation piece again (dated December 10 2007). And such foresight they showed: ‘He [Abhisit] vowed that the party would soon take control of Parliament, “as long as it was okay with the CNS. And Prem.” ‘
As we now know, a year almost to the day later it was MORE than just “okay” with them…………..
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Suwicha Thakor still locked up
Thanks everyone for all the support for P Nui!
Plus ca change …
They were charged by Decree 22? No way!
Being catched by catch-22… now, that got style…
Imports
What with a French coach and Belgian technical director, it seems Yadanarpon FC has become something of a сАЧсАнсАпсАЬсА║сААсАТсА▒сАлсА║, at least as far as a sports institution can be.
Imports
Ahh! I’ve been waiting for a post on the MNL. Going to a match is certainly an experience, and probably the only time you’ll see 30,000 Myanmar people gathered in one place legally, aside from an IC concert or a pagoda/religious festival.
If you want a pretty detailed look at the finances of the MNL, the Myanmar Times has had a series of articles on the business of the MNL. The last one (http://www.mmtimes.com/no479/b004.htm) deals with club finances and funding and has an interview with the owner of Yadanarbon (Mandalay).
However, there’s little mention of the system used to recruit foreigners. Only three clubs used foreign players (Yangon, Yadanarbon and Delta) this year. I have no idea where Delta found their trio of Argentineans (who were slightly disappointing) but Yangon have an agreement with BEC Tero FC in the Thai Premier League and I think they got nearly all of their foreign players through BEC Tero.
Yadanarbon’s coach and technical director, a Belgian guy, have a network of scouts in Ivory Coast and select the players based on that network. I don’t think any of their five or six Ivorians had played outside of Africa before.
In my opinion, Yadanarbon’s foreign players were the highlight of the competition.
Care for a rat?
Driving back from Nakhon Sawan to BKK a few weeks ago, it was clear from the number of roadside sellers offering said rodent for human consumption that many Thais ‘care for a rat’. There is even a special symbol that they erect up the road from their stalls to show drivers that they are selling this apparent delicacy.
Problems in Australia’s overseas student program
Very interesting thread. I studied in Sydney for a number of years. Most people at uni are quite nice to us overseas students, and local people (Anglo-aussies) are generally friendly and helpful. However, once( early in the morning) i saw “Asians go home!” pieces of paper pasted on the walls of many uni buildings (they were removed soon afterwards of course, perhaps by uni authorities).
I also encountered a few cases of vicious verbal abuse (which is explicitly racist) by local people. Once in a park, a male stranger, all of a sudden shouted at me and said something like “Asians go home” (but much ruder and more age in tone). Similar incident took place in a bus once.
But I’m not saying that Australia is more racist than other countries. I’m sure foreigners in Thailand encoutered similar or even worse form of discrimination/abuse. I simply hope that racist acts(whenever and wherever they take place, and no matter how subtle they are) are always condemned.
Wat Luang Sipsongpanna: a follow-up report
This thread reminds me of a Chinese temple i onced visited. it’s a mountain temple in Xiamen, Fujian. However, the temple i visited is totally different from this one— The Xiamen moutain temple (or manastery?)is just an ordinary, peaceful, quiet temple, not pretentious or grand or anything like this one featured here (although, yes, some people go there for touristic purpose.. most of the visitors are local Chinese ). I derived peace and enjoyed tranquil moments when i was there. I know this is impossible if u visit a temple that is explicitly put on show for commericial/business purpose.
The garlic roller coaster
[…] week I wrote about the relatively long-term fluctuations in the price of garlic. In response to a couple of the […]
Care for a rat?
Always exercise caution when attempting to explain animal population cycles.
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.
Care for a rat?
A Review of the Biology and Management of
Rodent Pests in Southeast Asia
Grant R. Singleton and David A. Petch
Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research
Canberra 1994
p13
After visiting the areas affected by the 1991
plague and talking to government officials and
villagers, we were not convinced of this link be-
tween the bamboo flowering and rodent outbreaks.
The story appears to have developed only over the
last ten years or so and may have come across from
northern Thailand (Walter Roder, pers. comm.) One
would expect that if there were a well established
relationship between bamboo flowering and the
appearancc of rodent plagues, then the story would
be enshrined within the folklore of the local people.
They are very careful observers of the environment
and it is extremely unlikely that such an important
relationship would have gone unnoticed prior to the
past decade. It may be that the bamboolrodent story
p16
is an argument of convenience, deflecting the blame
to an act of nature rather than to the fa& manage-
ment of the hill tribes. However it is difficult to be
definitive when reviewing the cause of an outbreak
that occurred two years earlier and when so little is
known about the animals involved.
There is much work to be done to ascertain
whether any of these stories about the relationship
between rodent plagues and bamboo flowering are
true. There is so little known about the biology of
the rodents that even the identity of the main pest
species is uncertain. From talking to farmers and
officers of the Agricultural Services and Extension
Agency, it appears that there are three sizes of pest
rodents. The largest one is assumed to be a bandi-
coot, probably the great bandicoot, Bandicota
indica, the middle sized one the ricefield rat, Rattus
argentiventer, and the smallest probably a species of
Mus (M. caroli or M. cervicolor).
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
A very interesting and important point from Yutasat#12:
“…”Thai people don’t like to talk to each other”. Of course we all know they do, but what he meant was that its hard for Thai people, at least some, to exchange opinions on deeper and significant matters with others with whom they are not close.”
It is probably cultural to a certain extent and can be likened to what we hear a lot here “international students from Asia do not ask questions or participate in class discussions” – and could also be exacerbated by current Thai divisive politics. In fact, I don’t raise politics with Thais that I have just met and among acquaintances who I had long (and can be quite emotional) debates with over the years, we seem to have grown tired of it all (all the revision of ample ammunition held by both sides!).
Is these ‘public’ self-censorships a hindrance to “free speech” as culturally defined by the West? Probably yes, but maybe free speech – and freedom of expression – needs to also be defined for Asian cultures too and particular to Thailand (with much of this also relative to the culture of – or lack of – the rule of law as I raised in another post).
Will this lead to another Thai reconciliation through mass amnesia? PMThaksin holds the key here – as only he can rally the Red masses like no one else can. The PAD looks more like a reactionary force against Thaksin – which is quite unfortunate. I would have love someone to take ‘war on corruption’ to the extreme that the PAD has taken ‘war on Thaksin’ – it has to be taken beyond Thaksin. On the other hand, as Antipadshist mentioned in #14, PMThaksin may finally be aware of his limitations and decide to cut a deal with the Democrats et al and accept some form, degree of punishment for a return to Thailand. Nothing seems impossible here (for “This is Thailand” as they say) including more street battles and Nostitz Volumes III, IV, V…
“All in all, Thailand is indeed a backward country!” Says Nudi Samsao#15 in a sweeping summary. I take no offense, but I have to disagree. It is more a rich dynamic cocktail of backwardness, forwardness, waywardness – which can be mistaken for going nowhere especially in the old, slow hands of the Democrats where Thaksin/Newin-style fast and hard-corruption is held back to extend the government’s term by a year or so. And, ‘in an only in Thailand’ phenomenon, Chalerm has already formally acknowledged PMThaksin, a convict fugitive, as the leader of PT and Thaksin, the virtual leader of the opposition, is now attacking the Dems policies in his phone-ins countrywide.
This, funnily, must count as a positive development – here is PMThaksin and PT learning the ropes as opposition! Surely this is a ‘functioning’ Thai democracy, albeit very imperfect and eccentric – love it or hate it.
Problems in Australia’s overseas student program
Those contributors who doubt that there is a link between economic migration and study in Australia could have a look at this very recent report by a group of demographers:
http://www.population.org.au/files/BirrellHealyKinnaird1_2009.pdf
There has evidently been a dramatic increase in the number of young Indians coming to Australia to learn to cook curries.
Wat Luang Sipsongpanna: a follow-up report
When I was in Eastern Shan State about a year ago, I met a monk who had just come back from the opening ceremony of a similar temple in Keng H├╝ng, I think it was, I don’t remember the exact name of the city in Yunnan.
He was conflicted about it. On the one hand, in an area where there had been a lot of damage to the Buddhist traditions, it seemed like a good thing to have a high-prestige place like it; on the other hand, it was clearly run as a business, by a company. He said the monks were real, but were paid to be there.
I suppose most everyone reading this blog knows that impersonating a monk is a rather serious offence.
Wat Luang Sipsongpanna: a follow-up report
Fascinating. In material tradition and scale, it is “… a big showy temple not unlike…” those in “… larger cities in China”. This brand-new tradition (to the Dai-lue) may have been an influence from south of the border Thailand too with billions of baht worth of mega-Wats. The innovation here is partnership with a real estate company and we seem to have a creative hybridization of ‘place of worship’ with gated “Dai Disneyland” – a form that reflects the milieu that it is built in. Thanks Thomas for this.
Prasert Nasakul: RIP
Nudi Samsao#2: “All Thais, judiciary or no, are crooked to a certain degree.” WOW!
At least make an exception for Prasert Nasakul – a brave, true hero of the Thai rule-of-law, still very much in its infancy. If his views were of the majority in 2001, Thai political history would have taken a very, very different trajectory…
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Michael#49:
“Oh, so Thailand is an outstanding example of free speech. I must have got it wrong. The blocking of internet sites & the ’self-censorship’ of the media are really not repression, they’re the expression of love for the nation. Sorry…” and “need to manufacture ‘evidence’ of an underground conspiracy that threatens national security, in order to get the ’subversives’ under the thumb again.”
Listen to Red community radios nationwide, go to Red rallies, read the Red publications (latest “Voice of Thaksin”) surf the too-wide-to-censor Thai internet world – you don’t have to believe me, consume these yourself and you will likely find a different picture of Thai free speech.
Also read my comment#50. The enforcement of Thai law is carried out by the very popular Thai police – and is pretty much like the enforcement of traffic laws. Once a month after pay day. It is literally 25-29 days of freedom out of 30-31 days of each month (and it is tied to ‘pay’, I must stress probably more than love of order or of the nation)!!!
Yes, websites can be banned, pirated CDs can be burnt, prostitution can be cracked down – you get the picture? What is ‘not allowed’ actually happens all the time…
Steve#51, add ‘more than OK with Mr.Newin’ and a little less ok with PAD and the picture becomes more complete and I am beginning to hear this more often that don’t discount a Democrat-Thaksin (PheuThai) coalition!!! I agree Michael, there’s still many turning-circles to do, unfortunately…
Sepon mine in Laos to be sold to China?
Sorry – a further comment. AW noted that ‘the banks are running out of patience’. No, I don’t think that’s true: once they realised what a total mess their fellow wan….sorry, bankers had made of the world economy, all of a sudden their triple-bottom line talk (which I always thought appropriate anyway for people with such large and flabby posteriors) went out the window; there was no longer any consideration of environmental performances or sustainable community investment by Sepon (or any other mine). Suddenly there was only one thing that mattered: give us the money NOW. The banks, it turned out had no patience whatsoever and once saved from their own follies by public subsidies immediately turned round and screwed everyone else, including miners. OZ Minerals at the time may not have been the most wise or best-managed of companies, but the role of the banks in its difficulties (which included that set of dopes in France whose level of prudence was demonstrated when one of their junior traders almost did a Gleason on them last year) was dripping with cowardice.
Sepon mine in Laos to be sold to China?
It is really quite astonishing to me that so little has appeared in even the New Mandala concerning this matter which not only directly affects Lao PDR’s single biggest source of exports, biggest private employer and biggest single tax payer but also places the Sepon Mine – located at one of the three most strategic places on the Lao-Vietnam border – in the hands of a PRC government owned company.
The implications of this last point deserve a whole MA thesis (at least) on their own. Given the history of Vietnam/China relations (whichever form of politics either has practiced) and given the nature of Viet-Lao relations (fraternal delegations arrive every other day in Vientiane) one would imagine that Hanoi is far from comfortable with this deal. If Wayne Swann could throw out the original deal over security concerns at the former testing station for nuclear powered wombats, the mind boggles at what sort of messages passed between Hanoi and Vientiane over control of the Xepon Gap area.
However, whatever strains it might have created for Vientiane in that regard, the deal did at least ensure that the Lao PDR got its due taxes from the mine – something the potential bankruptcy of the mining group to which the (profitable) Sepon Mine belonged – it would have otherwise missed out on. For much of the period July 2008 to June 2009, the ludicrous situation had arisen whereby a mine in one of the poorest Asian countries was effectively subsidising failing mines in Australia and yet all the decisions regarding the fate of the group as a whole were being taken in Canberra and Melbourne without reference to the interests of Laos.
Prasert Nasakul: RIP
Nudi:
You propose to eliminate Thailand’s public sphere and close all sorts of mass media. Quite a good idea but neither very realistic nor democratic.
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Michael #50
Good to see that Not The Nation piece again (dated December 10 2007). And such foresight they showed: ‘He [Abhisit] vowed that the party would soon take control of Parliament, “as long as it was okay with the CNS. And Prem.” ‘
As we now know, a year almost to the day later it was MORE than just “okay” with them…………..