Superficially, in 1946 there were ‘four’ PMs. But there was only one real leader throughout the whole period from the end of the war to the coup of 1947, i.e. Pridi Phanomyong. In fact virtually all Ministers in the ‘Seni’ Cabinet was selected for him by Pridi, Seni only came back from the US to assume the post of PM. (When Pridi decided to give the post to Seni, the Allies were very surprised by the decision. They thought Pridi would/should assume the post himself.) This was also true of the Thamrong Cabinet. In fact major decisions by the Thamraong Cabinet had to be approved by Pridi himself (I’ve read the minutes of all their meetings.) Only Khuang Cabinet can be said to be р╕Др╕▓р╕Щр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕И (counter-weight) to Pridi group.
By the way, shouldn’t the CCP be regarded as Asia’s second oldest party behind the KMT?
There is yet a hope for Thailand if more and more people follow the late Buddhadasa’s teachings. A few years ago there was a dedicated monk–a Reformist Buddhist who was concerned about the issue of environment. He was ,however, brutally murdered in a manastery’s compund and so far (to my knowledge) those who are behind this horrible murder are not yet brought to justice. For more information abt this horrific crime against this exemplar Buddhist monk, see http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=289#3370
He admits that previous Thai Governments under Thaksin’s control have serious problems with the following: widespread corruption, violations of human rights including Mr Thaksin’s ‘war on drugs’, and the escalation of the conflict in Thailand’s south.
Does it mean Abhisit gov’t is so much better now in comparison even after only 3 months in power ?
So there is no need to complain since the situation have been very much improved.
Many people there was invited by the Thai Embassy… so you know what sort of people were there right?? I saw a kid playing his PSP in that room…. I’m not sure why but that seat could be reserve for someone… you know… more critical than that kid…
I’m amazed that Thailand is now running by this baffoon, anyway, he talks all high about encouraging democracy but people here, in thailand, are still being arrest from lese marjeste. I have to ask Abhisit back, although the some european countries (I dont know which one) have the lese marjeste law, did anyone of them actually put people in “jail” for lese marjeste??
The Event was full. He was keen to meet with all objectors and attempted to answer Prof Ungpakhorns questions. It was explicitly stated that places were limited and there would be a first come first served basis even for those who had registered. Claims that denial of entry were intentional are absolutely absurd, which, as the President of the Organising society, I can testify.
The concept of “Protecting the monarchy is a matter of national security” was not something new. In fact, it was the very idea of Rama VI, and this propaganda was well known to all Thais since then. The nation, the religion(Buddhism, implicitly), the monarchy are the core value of Siam.
FM Pibul had added the fourth element, the constitution, but it was dropped out , right after Pibul went exile. It’s a very interesting part of Thai contemperary political history.
I agree with Roland’s post # 111 except I doubt that the Chinese teargas was designed for use against in military assaults, as soldiers don’t waste time using tear gas, even the exploding variety, against other armed soldiers. They use maximum force available. The exploding tear gas was more likely specially designed to be more effective against rioting Chinese students or peasants than the regular non-explosive type. No doubt the sellers would have highlighted this bonus feature to the police buyers as providing more bang for their buck to justify the purchase loaded with fat commissions. The police on the ground might have been surprised that the tear gas canisters exploded on impact but that apparently didn’t stop them from firing the exploding rounds directly at protestors repeatedly instead of firing a much more limited quantity at the ground which is standard procedure when the firers only intend to gas the victims using non-exploding rounds.
I am also curious to know how the former Police Lt Col met his untimely end, although I recognize that this may never be revealed. But even if he did blow himself, which is quite possible, that would not somehow make the police less culpable of killing Angkhana or their pathetic allegations that she was carrying plastic explosives any more credible.
New bridge Mae Sod_bridge would be built in Shwe Kokko, a village in Myawaddy Township that is under the control of Brigade 999 of the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army (DKBA).
“Charges will not be dropped in all cases (implying that they may be dropped in some cases).”
Your parenthetical comment is accurate if this were a statement that originated in English, but as a translation from Thai, and particularly given the context (including the preceding statement “Existing cases will proceed,” I am not so sure. I surmise the meaning is this: ‘In all cases, charges will not be dropped.’
Jan,
I think you’ll find most overseas students are members of the nomenklatura. Why would they be critical?
Veg comes over like Tony Blair. School prize for debating but little integrity. A consummate performance by a Tory politician pasted on a crumbling facade. I’m very disappointed to say or think it. I had hoped for better things from him.
He’s right about one thing Thai democracy needs developing. …
But can he really be the Kwisatz Haderach?
Incidentally is it only me or does Giles sound like Kenneth Williams?
What do I know?
the official position that the problem lies in the “enforcement” of the law is vague and open to all sorts of interpretations.
But isn’t the proposed ‘reform of LM’ by the ‘Fifty Scholars’ itself also quite vague? In fact the government could argue, wih some ‘reasonableness’, that the above points have already more or less met the three demands by the ‘Fifty’:
– – The Prime Minister has asked the police to enforce the law cautiously to avoid abuse.
for the Fifty’s first demand (“Please stop seeking more suppressive measures against individuals, web sites, and the peaceful expressions of ideas.“)
– – There have been problems with enforcement of the law, especially the fact that anyone can file a complaint under the law.
for the Fifty’s second demand (“Please consider suggestions to reform the lese majeste law to prevent further abuses and to prevent the possibility of further damage to the international reputation of Thailand and the monarch.“)
This second demand, one may observe, isn’t specified. But there has been suggestion, by people who talk about ‘reforming’ LM themselve, similar to the point the government mentions here. (I should add that I personally never see this issue – anyone can file LM complaint – as important as many seem to do.)
and, finally,
– – Existing cases will proceed. Charges will not be dropped in all cases (implying that they may be dropped in some cases).
for the Fifty’s third demand (“Please consider taking action to withdraw the current lese majeste charges, and working to secure the release of those already convicted under the lese majeste law.“)
I am aware that there maybe “limits” to what largely non-Thai scholars could call for, regarding Thai laws and such campaign may be important for the fact that it has taken place. On the other hand, however, one should note that, as everyone here probably knows, prior to the Fifty’s campaign, there had been call to abolish the LM law altogether, initiated by Ji himself. That call was ‘stillborn’ by (the ‘manner’ of) Ji’s ‘departure’ and later overshadowed by this one.
I have a request for Srithanonchai : If Ji is wrong, what is happening in Thailand? How do we understand the events of the period from about 2001? I realise that this is a big question, but I don’t think it is enough to just reject Ji’s position with no argumentation at all.
jonfernquest seems to claim that Giles has just become anti-monarchy. What, then, was the Red Siam manifesto?
i don’t believe a word he sais. he is a very clever rhetoric, that’s all. i just know he was never elected, so why does he even talk.
in the video i’m a bit disappointed by the thai students oversea. would imagine them to be more critical.
Thaksin set a record for most defamation cases initiated by a Prime Minister.
LM cases have been pursued under the last several Prime Ministers on both the Thaksin and anti-Thaksin sides.
[A memory the size of a pea, a very smaaallllll pea]
So the Giles pamphlet is now explicitly anti-monarchy, lumping everything he personally dislikes into the same boat and claiming an overwhelming mandate for it in Thailand, all without any proof, typical Giles “scholarship” infantile and delusional, to say the least.
“A civil war is developing in Thailand and it is a class war between the rich and the poor.” > Writing this, how can one take Giles (not a “Dr.”) seriously?
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Four Prime Ministers in one year
Should I write in Thai or in English?
Superficially, in 1946 there were ‘four’ PMs. But there was only one real leader throughout the whole period from the end of the war to the coup of 1947, i.e. Pridi Phanomyong. In fact virtually all Ministers in the ‘Seni’ Cabinet was selected for him by Pridi, Seni only came back from the US to assume the post of PM. (When Pridi decided to give the post to Seni, the Allies were very surprised by the decision. They thought Pridi would/should assume the post himself.) This was also true of the Thamrong Cabinet. In fact major decisions by the Thamraong Cabinet had to be approved by Pridi himself (I’ve read the minutes of all their meetings.) Only Khuang Cabinet can be said to be р╕Др╕▓р╕Щр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕И (counter-weight) to Pridi group.
By the way, shouldn’t the CCP be regarded as Asia’s second oldest party behind the KMT?
From the archives: Region of Revolt
There is yet a hope for Thailand if more and more people follow the late Buddhadasa’s teachings. A few years ago there was a dedicated monk–a Reformist Buddhist who was concerned about the issue of environment. He was ,however, brutally murdered in a manastery’s compund and so far (to my knowledge) those who are behind this horrible murder are not yet brought to justice. For more information abt this horrific crime against this exemplar Buddhist monk, see http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=289#3370
Lee Jones on Abhisit in Oxford
Please readthat Mr Lee Jones clarifies his e-mail on Thai PM , the most recent one at:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/topstory/30097878/Oxford-researcher-clarifies-his-e-mail–on-Thai-PM
He admits that previous Thai Governments under Thaksin’s control have serious problems with the following: widespread corruption, violations of human rights including Mr Thaksin’s ‘war on drugs’, and the escalation of the conflict in Thailand’s south.
Does it mean Abhisit gov’t is so much better now in comparison even after only 3 months in power ?
So there is no need to complain since the situation have been very much improved.
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the outside
Many people there was invited by the Thai Embassy… so you know what sort of people were there right?? I saw a kid playing his PSP in that room…. I’m not sure why but that seat could be reserve for someone… you know… more critical than that kid…
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the inside
I’m amazed that Thailand is now running by this baffoon, anyway, he talks all high about encouraging democracy but people here, in thailand, are still being arrest from lese marjeste. I have to ask Abhisit back, although the some european countries (I dont know which one) have the lese marjeste law, did anyone of them actually put people in “jail” for lese marjeste??
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the outside
The Event was full. He was keen to meet with all objectors and attempted to answer Prof Ungpakhorns questions. It was explicitly stated that places were limited and there would be a first come first served basis even for those who had registered. Claims that denial of entry were intentional are absolutely absurd, which, as the President of the Organising society, I can testify.
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the inside
Michel la Montaigne 6
‘Incidentally is it only me or does Giles sound like Kenneth Williams?’
Stop messing about!
(Actually he does a bit.)
Thai democracy wasn’t built in a day
[…] [This is the second in our Thai language series of posts by Dekchai Kimhan. The first in the series is available here.] […]
Government responses to LM campaign
Thai Crisis:
The concept of “Protecting the monarchy is a matter of national security” was not something new. In fact, it was the very idea of Rama VI, and this propaganda was well known to all Thais since then. The nation, the religion(Buddhism, implicitly), the monarchy are the core value of Siam.
FM Pibul had added the fourth element, the constitution, but it was dropped out , right after Pibul went exile. It’s a very interesting part of Thai contemperary political history.
Government responses to LM campaign
Very interesting.
The concept “monarchy = national security” is… new.
The first time I heard it was in january… with a statement from the Justice Minister Pirapan (who has a “US Masters degree in law”).
http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/justice-minister-and-lese-majeste-freedom-of-speech-is-like-your-shoes-at-the-airport/
It took them 8 years, after 9/11, to come up with this brilliant idea. 😉
They must be thinking : “What ! It’s working in the US. So why not in Thailand ! ?”
Check the link Pirapan is making… with shoes and belt at airport security checks… You’ll cry.
Poor Thailand.
What happened on 7/10/2008?
I agree with Roland’s post # 111 except I doubt that the Chinese teargas was designed for use against in military assaults, as soldiers don’t waste time using tear gas, even the exploding variety, against other armed soldiers. They use maximum force available. The exploding tear gas was more likely specially designed to be more effective against rioting Chinese students or peasants than the regular non-explosive type. No doubt the sellers would have highlighted this bonus feature to the police buyers as providing more bang for their buck to justify the purchase loaded with fat commissions. The police on the ground might have been surprised that the tear gas canisters exploded on impact but that apparently didn’t stop them from firing the exploding rounds directly at protestors repeatedly instead of firing a much more limited quantity at the ground which is standard procedure when the firers only intend to gas the victims using non-exploding rounds.
I am also curious to know how the former Police Lt Col met his untimely end, although I recognize that this may never be revealed. But even if he did blow himself, which is quite possible, that would not somehow make the police less culpable of killing Angkhana or their pathetic allegations that she was carrying plastic explosives any more credible.
Karen Colonel reportedly out on bail
New bridge Mae Sod_bridge would be built in Shwe Kokko, a village in Myawaddy Township that is under the control of Brigade 999 of the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army (DKBA).
http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=15310
Government responses to LM campaign
“Charges will not be dropped in all cases (implying that they may be dropped in some cases).”
Your parenthetical comment is accurate if this were a statement that originated in English, but as a translation from Thai, and particularly given the context (including the preceding statement “Existing cases will proceed,” I am not so sure. I surmise the meaning is this: ‘In all cases, charges will not be dropped.’
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the inside
“…n the video i’m a bit disappointed by the thai students oversea. would imagine them to be more critical.”
Have you read the petition signed by eleven Thai students at Oxford?
http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=1051
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the inside
Jan,
I think you’ll find most overseas students are members of the nomenklatura. Why would they be critical?
Veg comes over like Tony Blair. School prize for debating but little integrity. A consummate performance by a Tory politician pasted on a crumbling facade. I’m very disappointed to say or think it. I had hoped for better things from him.
He’s right about one thing Thai democracy needs developing. …
But can he really be the Kwisatz Haderach?
Incidentally is it only me or does Giles sound like Kenneth Williams?
What do I know?
Government responses to LM campaign
the official position that the problem lies in the “enforcement” of the law is vague and open to all sorts of interpretations.
But isn’t the proposed ‘reform of LM’ by the ‘Fifty Scholars’ itself also quite vague? In fact the government could argue, wih some ‘reasonableness’, that the above points have already more or less met the three demands by the ‘Fifty’:
– – The Prime Minister has asked the police to enforce the law cautiously to avoid abuse.
for the Fifty’s first demand (“Please stop seeking more suppressive measures against individuals, web sites, and the peaceful expressions of ideas.“)
– – There have been problems with enforcement of the law, especially the fact that anyone can file a complaint under the law.
for the Fifty’s second demand (“Please consider suggestions to reform the lese majeste law to prevent further abuses and to prevent the possibility of further damage to the international reputation of Thailand and the monarch.“)
This second demand, one may observe, isn’t specified. But there has been suggestion, by people who talk about ‘reforming’ LM themselve, similar to the point the government mentions here. (I should add that I personally never see this issue – anyone can file LM complaint – as important as many seem to do.)
and, finally,
– – Existing cases will proceed. Charges will not be dropped in all cases (implying that they may be dropped in some cases).
for the Fifty’s third demand (“Please consider taking action to withdraw the current lese majeste charges, and working to secure the release of those already convicted under the lese majeste law.“)
I am aware that there maybe “limits” to what largely non-Thai scholars could call for, regarding Thai laws and such campaign may be important for the fact that it has taken place. On the other hand, however, one should note that, as everyone here probably knows, prior to the Fifty’s campaign, there had been call to abolish the LM law altogether, initiated by Ji himself. That call was ‘stillborn’ by (the ‘manner’ of) Ji’s ‘departure’ and later overshadowed by this one.
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the outside
I have a request for Srithanonchai : If Ji is wrong, what is happening in Thailand? How do we understand the events of the period from about 2001? I realise that this is a big question, but I don’t think it is enough to just reject Ji’s position with no argumentation at all.
jonfernquest seems to claim that Giles has just become anti-monarchy. What, then, was the Red Siam manifesto?
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the inside
i don’t believe a word he sais. he is a very clever rhetoric, that’s all. i just know he was never elected, so why does he even talk.
in the video i’m a bit disappointed by the thai students oversea. would imagine them to be more critical.
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the outside
“He doesn’t believe in free speech.”
Thaksin set a record for most defamation cases initiated by a Prime Minister.
LM cases have been pursued under the last several Prime Ministers on both the Thaksin and anti-Thaksin sides.
[A memory the size of a pea, a very smaaallllll pea]
So the Giles pamphlet is now explicitly anti-monarchy, lumping everything he personally dislikes into the same boat and claiming an overwhelming mandate for it in Thailand, all without any proof, typical Giles “scholarship” infantile and delusional, to say the least.
Abhisit’s talk in Oxford: From the outside
“A civil war is developing in Thailand and it is a class war between the rich and the poor.” > Writing this, how can one take Giles (not a “Dr.”) seriously?